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I thought Ermor and Lemuria's dominion worked like magical death radiation that kills everything down to the bedrock.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:30
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amuayse posted:I thought Ermor and Lemuria's dominion worked like magical death radiation that kills everything down to the bedrock. I think you can even manipulate how strong the kill-dominion is by either taking growth-scales (pop kill is weaker) or death scales (pop kill is stronger). There's always some annoying rest left, however. For example, I noticed you have to summon some pop-killing poo poo at the very end to kill off the last small bit of population, or you have 40 guys here, 22 guys there left. But what I really want to see is some kind of free-spawn nation without the KILLDEATH-nonsense of Ermor and Lemuria (and that other nation I keep forgetting, the undead Pangaea nation), but the same gem-based economy. Relying on gems instead of gold is interesting enough in it's own right, but it's hampered by the fact your nation is automatically bad for everyone else. So you get those weird situations where you either win unconstested because no-one wants your dead, empty wastelands or you get dogpiled by everyone to prevent you from killing the world. If you like diplomacy and a gem-based economy with free-spawn, tough poo poo. Someone would think with all those spells to make money out of gems there would be a nice space for some kind of super-magical nation getting fire/earthgems by the ton, but no money for reasons. On the other hand, I've no idea how you could make sure this would be balanced without killing of the population. Maybe start with a hybrid nation first and make sure its cap will always be in a wasteland, surrounded by wastelands. Maybe make your national summons and freespawns only happen in barren, near-empty provinces so you have to ignore provinces with high population/high ressources. This is mind you, just to prevent a player spamming forts, because if your national units are only summonable/come as free-spawn, then you don't have to spend much money on recruiting, obviously.
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Sep 30, 2014 18:48
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Libluini posted:I think you can even manipulate how strong the kill-dominion is by either taking growth-scales (pop kill is weaker) or death scales (pop kill is stronger).
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Sep 30, 2014 19:37
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There are events for Ermor/Lemuria that mention using skeletons and zombies to operate the mines.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:40
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amuayse posted:I thought Ermor and Lemuria's dominion worked like magical death radiation that kills everything down to the bedrock. Libluini posted:But what I really want to see is some kind of free-spawn nation without the KILLDEATH-nonsense of Ermor and Lemuria (and that other nation I keep forgetting, the undead Pangaea nation)
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Sep 30, 2014 19:41
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Libluini posted:I think you can even manipulate how strong the kill-dominion is by either taking growth-scales (pop kill is weaker) or death scales (pop kill is stronger). Technically, but it's pissing in the ocean. The scales cap at .6% per month while the killer dominions are something like 15% for Ermor and 5% for everyone else.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:42
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Something interesting I just stumbled upon: There are mod commands to manipulate how much gold/ressources/supplies you can get from a province. Combined with the #autoundead-tag someone could at least make a non-lethal undead free-spawn nation with a gems-only economy. Sadly, there seems to be no way to make your dominion spawn non-undead units. Would be fun to have something like a magical dominion spawning fairies and other magical poo poo everywhere. But the #makemonster-commands brought me a new idea: A summon-nation. No recruitable units, no free-spawn. Just summons.  jBrereton posted:Yep. If Asphodel's dominion doesn't kill people, maybe I'll try it out when some of my currently running games are done.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:55
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dis astranagant posted:Technically, but it's pissing in the ocean. The scales cap at .6% per month while the killer dominions are something like 15% for Ermor and 5% for everyone else. I don't know why it's so high. It could be 8% for Ermor and 4% for the rest, and people still would fear it.
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Sep 30, 2014 19:56
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Libluini posted:If Asphodel's dominion doesn't kill people, maybe I'll try it out when some of my currently running games are done. It does but the effect is pretty slow and it takes a few years before you really feel it.
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Sep 30, 2014 20:00
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Right, it's 1% per candle per turn, which with growth-3 scales means if you keep dominion lowish early instead of instantly making GBS threads out a billion temples everywhere (no matter how tempting that is), you can actually manage it to some extent. e: also you can have your dominion summon non-undead units, you would "just" have to replace Longdead Velites and so on with something else and render MA Ermor and possibly Sceleria unplayable, or do the same with Lemuria and make its ghosts something else. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 20:04
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Nuclearmonkee posted:It does but the effect is pretty slow and it takes a few years before you really feel it. Uh...I tested Aspohdel's dominion in a SP game, and my cap was down to 15k pop at the beginning of the 2nd year. Try to run asphodel with dom 6 or 7? gently caress if I know. I'm not playing with that low of dom anymore. Not after Iloveu killed me turn 7.
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Sep 30, 2014 20:08
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Gaghskull posted:Uh...I tested Aspohdel's dominion in a SP game, and my cap was down to 15k pop at the beginning of the 2nd year. Try to run asphodel with dom 6 or 7? gently caress if I know. I'm not playing with that low of dom anymore. Not after Iloveu killed me turn 7. Your cap and immediate area around the cap will collapse sure, but if you don't try to slam out temples everywhere immediately you can maintain other nations' candles on some of your lands and keep an income base going. Ideally you want to be bros with this person(s).
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Sep 30, 2014 20:20
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I think this tells me I should mod a few test nations and throw up a test game to test them out. Right now I'm thinking a hybrid spawn/recruit nation for EA, a non-lethal undead free-spawn nation for MA and a pure summon-nation for LA. How does this sound?
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Sep 30, 2014 20:28
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Go for it. I'll play in them 
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Sep 30, 2014 21:15
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Kitfox88 posted:Go for it. I'll play in them Good, good. It could take a while, though. On account of me being so lazy modding will take extralong. Also having five running games right now doesn't help, either: I want to have at least three of these games end before I go nuts with test games. As a teaser, here are some notes I hastily threw together during lunch today: posted:
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Sep 30, 2014 21:27
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Make Marignon autospawn flagellants.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:46
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Flame112 posted:Make Marignon autospawn flagellants. If I read the modding manual correctly, this would only work if there were an undead variant of flagellants. But I can try to make a commander with the ability to summon flagellants, the next best thing.
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Sep 30, 2014 21:54
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Gaghskull posted:Uh...I tested Aspohdel's dominion in a SP game, and my cap was down to 15k pop at the beginning of the 2nd year. Try to run asphodel with dom 6 or 7? gently caress if I know. I'm not playing with that low of dom anymore. Not after Iloveu killed me turn 7. Even if you took the Dom 10-est awake pretender and built a shitload of priests, they're still basically forcing you to stay at home with it or risk losing the game instantly. Libluini - just keep in mind there's no way to set income per nation. If you use #poppergold 200, for example, everyone needs twice as much population to produce one pound of gold, not just that specific race. With that in mind, EA/MA will be the easiest to code, and LA will be frustrating as gently caress - you can do a kinda sorta workaround by giving their 'conventional' forces massive gluttony, resource penalties, and upkeep, but it won't affect any indies they pick up. Libluini posted:If I read the modding manual correctly, this would only work if there were an undead variant of flagellants. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 21:58
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Libluini posted:Good, good. It could take a while, though. On account of me being so lazy modding will take extralong. Also having five running games right now doesn't help, either: I want to have at least three of these games end before I go nuts with test games. Another route (at least for the spawn/recruit hybrid) you could consider is recruitable commanders that then freespawn troops under their command, like Pans do.
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Sep 30, 2014 22:07
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jBrereton posted:Libluini - just keep in mind there's no way to set income per nation. If you use #poppergold 200, for example, everyone needs twice as much population to produce one pound of gold, not just that specific race. Oh gently caress, you're right, I somehow read through nation modding into general modding without noticing that giant "chapter 18 general modding" headline.  But what the hell, I'll find a way around this. Making some random holy priest commander summon flagellants will be the easy part: Just look up the monster number flagellant-units have, make a custom #makemonster-summon line and add that to the commander. If #autoundead just spawns ghouls with 0 popkill (would've been nice by the modding manual to mention this, by the way), I'll just work with custom-summon lists. I've already did this to make a pretender capable of summoning horrors, so I know this works, in principle. fool_of_sound posted:Another route (at least for the spawn/recruit hybrid) you could consider is recruitable commanders that then freespawn troops under their command, like Pans do. If I can get this to work, I'll try to include some in the EA hybrid nation, which is supposed to have at least some recruitable commanders and units. I just have to make sure they are thematically sound, or at least modded to be thematically sound, because apparently this is the only way to get real freespawn into a new nation. The other way would be to mod an existing freespawn nation, but then I'll run the risk of making the freespawn lovely when I reduce the popkill. Also I still have to find enough restrictions to make sure a player can't just spam forts and indies everywhere with all the gold he doesn't need to recruit. Man this is hard. Edit: Something I want to test during the next few days: What happens if you add a custom magic site with a negative gold income to a cap? If this works, I may have found a solution to the income-problem. If that doesn't work, I'll try to make all freespawn units and buildings ludicrously expensive, to prevent players from just going apeshit after they notice they have a shitload of magic gems and free units. Libluini fucked around with this message at 22:25 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 22:19
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Libluini posted:But what the hell, I'll find a way around this. Making some random holy priest commander summon flagellants will be the easy part: Just look up the monster number flagellant-units have, make a custom #makemonster-summon line and add that to the commander. If #autoundead just spawns ghouls with 0 popkill (would've been nice by the modding manual to mention this, by the way), I'll just work with custom-summon lists. I've already did this to make a pretender capable of summoning horrors, so I know this works, in principle. (and yes, giving Marignon's priest commanders makemonsterX/summonX with unit #217 is probably the smartest way to do it) e: here is this loving abysmal mod that breaks almost everything undead in the game for the sake of giving MA Marignon unbalancedly large amounts of Flagellants (but which accurately replicates how annoying to micromanage Ermor is due to them all technically still being diverse units that just happen to be #copystats/#copyspr'd!). Also freespawn Paladins and Friars because hey those Mound Kings and Censors had to turn into something. Enjoy or don't. Also has anyone ever seen Longdeads with Greatswords in the wild? They certainly exist and I had to change them, but I'm pretty sure I've never seen one in the flesh by which I mean bones. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Sep 30, 2014 |
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Sep 30, 2014 22:25
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gently caress it, I still had some time left today:quote:EA Lagash
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Sep 30, 2014 23:49
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 what the hell is this e:  lol
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Oct 1, 2014 07:29
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jsoh posted:
Looks like someone wished for Armageddon.
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Oct 1, 2014 07:50
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I wonder when Illwinter changed the Armageddon text.
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Oct 1, 2014 08:10
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I only lost like 10 guys lol
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Oct 1, 2014 09:04
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I finished a new version of pudmod last night! It has a ton of changes to Serpent Cult Pythium's mage lineup, and some small tweaks to a lot of other stuff, like making Jomon's national units have 10 HP instead of 9. (you can click the picture to download it, how loving fancy is that) Complete changelog is located right here. http://pastebin.com/u9A5Bnbh
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Oct 1, 2014 12:41
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quote:-Shambler Skin Armour and Robe of the Sea give air breathing to aquatic units.  Downloading!
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Oct 1, 2014 12:52
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jsoh posted:
R'lyeh's final solution I expect.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:07
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Nuclearmonkee posted:R'lyeh's final solution I expect. Wasn't me, honest.
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Oct 1, 2014 18:14
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I'm getting quite into this game now. But I'm having a hard time with a couple more things: When I play against one or two AIs, I can usually roll over them without much trouble regardless of strategy. But when I'm up against 3 or more, I find that fighting on too many fronts wears me really thin and I inevitably lose ground and collapse. I'm not sure how to balance expansion, fortification, and defense, and it seems I never have enough income to cover all the things I need. I know that's literally what the game is about, but does anyone have any advice for that part of the strategy layer? I usually go and grab provinces until I find a good spot for a castle that doesn't overlap much with my capital, usually on two fronts, then I sit back and fortify with about 10-12 provinces and do some research to get the spells that I want (though this is still really hit-and-miss, I'm relying a lot on evocations because everything else seems really finicky). Then I try and push out to kill someone's capital, concentrating most of my forces there to bring it down, but I lose land around the castle as I siege their capital and my other fronts normally come under threat at this point and I can't survive. Any tips that would help me out, or good LPs to watch that make a nice show of the game? And I guess the related question is what do you normally do for lategame? What are the various strategies for tipping the scales and bringing your army over the edge? Research until lv8-9 in your favourite school and start dropping big rituals and battle enchantments? Fortify castles, stockpile money/resources and push out with 500 troops? When should you be assaulting capitals, and how do you know what kind of endgame you should play?
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Oct 2, 2014 00:47
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You make gigantic doomstacks of summons and boosted mages to take thrones and then you win. Having global enchantments and significant dompush helps as well.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:14
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amuayse posted:You make gigantic doomstacks of summons and boosted mages to take thrones and then you win. Having global enchantments and significant dompush helps as well. Yeah, as soon as you reach a certain treshold of magic, the AI just can't cope with it and gets steamrolled. Especially since the AI is actually incapable of using globals themselves, so sooner or later you'll have all five slots for yourself. If you want to have a really lame and easy win, play as a deathspawn nation like Lemuria, cast Burden of Time, wait until the AI is dead, the end.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:46
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immolationsex posted:I always wondered why people make a point of killing off everyone in a province with a cash-generating magic site. The site still works even if there's people around, no? If I remember correctly, this was useful in dominions 3 since you could overtax a province with a cash generating site for no unrest and bonus income. It's a tad pointless in dominions 4.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:08
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Boing posted:I'm getting quite into this game now. But I'm having a hard time with a couple more things: I believe one of the key ideas to take away is to "never stop expanding." Identify a weak opponent when you hit that 10-12 province mark and go take them out while you research your big spells. This is not a hard-and-fast rule but it's a pretty good idea nonetheless. As for Let's Plays, I found this one to be the easiest to follow: http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3/ Though the perspective is admittedly narrow and some of the information is a bit outdated. School of magic depends on the nation involved. Evocations are always good, but you might want to try and branch into other paths after identifying key spells that may be useful, depending on what you have access to--for example, anyone with Earth 2 mages can aim for Conjuration 3 for summon earthpower, now you suddenly have earth 3 mages that can cast Maws of the Earth with Alteration 5, or Blade Wind with Evocation 4. Any nation with a Death2 mage can consider Enchantment for the infamous Horde of Skeletons at level 5--you might not believe how effective a group of 5-10 mages all casting Horde of Skeletons over and over can be until you've tried it. Likewise, another easy combo to look for is using Storm (Evoc5) to allow your Air2 mages to cast Summon Storm Power (Conj3) to cast Thunder Strike (Evoc4) in large quantities. For carrying out war, try to have a handful of war parties rather than one big mega-stack. This will become easier once you learn how to lean on mages more. Boing posted:And I guess the related question is what do you normally do for lategame? What are the various strategies for tipping the scales and bringing your army over the edge? Research until lv8-9 in your favourite school and start dropping big rituals and battle enchantments? Fortify castles, stockpile money/resources and push out with 500 troops? When should you be assaulting capitals, and how do you know what kind of endgame you should play? Global spells are hugely important in multiplayer and are somewhat "overpowered" in single-player because the AI doesn't do much to contest them. Cast something like Vengeful Water and watch how the AI cannot carry out a coherent invasion anymore. Or cast Astral Corruption and start dropping Send Horror on stacks. These options are overkill against the AI really but are viable endgame plans. Throw up The Wrath of God and watch enemy units drop like flies without you having to lift a finger, especially if you have good dominion spread and turmoil. Combine with Foul Air for hilarity. Lots of options there, too many to list really, but I'm throwing out some examples. Did you have a specific nation in mind? There were some "newbie guides" for nations written a few pages back but I don't think they ever got added to the OP.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:36
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Magil Zeal posted:Global spells are hugely important in multiplayer and are somewhat "overpowered" in single-player because the AI doesn't do much to contest them. Cast something like Vengeful Water and watch how the AI cannot carry out a coherent invasion anymore. Or cast Astral Corruption and start dropping Send Horror on stacks. These options are overkill against the AI really but are viable endgame plans. Throw up The Wrath of God and watch enemy units drop like flies without you having to lift a finger, especially if you have good dominion spread and turmoil. Combine with Foul Air for hilarity. Lots of options there, too many to list really, but I'm throwing out some examples. Did you have a specific nation in mind? Controlling key globals is another part of why bless strategies can be so strong. Having a dude with the high W to cast Vengeful Waters is super helpful.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:46
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Boing posted:I'm getting quite into this game now. But I'm having a hard time with a couple more things: Well, the AI is unpredictable. Once you get into multiplayer, its rare that you will find yourself in a 3 front war unless you are the biggest dog on the block. Needless to say, if you ever get attacked by 3 of your neighbours at once you have critically failed at diplomacy. Secure good provinces(any high pop province is great, farmlands are almost always worth taking), appease your neighbours and hope you don't get picked on for appearing weak. Appearing strong can be the difference between life and death. In Sore Losers, Flame112 as Patala looked real weak and I started taking some of his border provinces while he was(from my point of view) losing badly to Man. A turn or two later I saw he wasn't losing so badly after all, and once I saw his doomstack appear out of the fort and shatter the sieging Man army, I agreed to leave him alone as I was busy in a war against Lemuria and didn't want to have my provinces raided, or worse, get sieged if Man had suffered a catastrophic loss. From my point of view he had turned the war around, but I did not have enough scout coverage to see all of Mans troops. (this is why scouts are critically important. Try to get 100% coverage on your closest neighbours) Turns out he's still losing so I probably didn't have anything to fear and could have grabbed a bunch of provinces for free, but there you can see the merits of diplomacy and at least appearing strong
The Gentleman fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 11:18
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Just as a short update on my mod project, I've finished the easy part (description, lore, flavour text):quote:EA Lagash Now I can start with the programming part. Also I have to mod quite a few units, sites and spells to make the new nations work, really I expect to have to mod new things practically every step on the way. Well, it's what I wanted.  By the way, to make things easier on me I settled on EA and MA being a hybrid of normal/gem economy, while LA will be as purely gem oriented as I can make it. Because of dominion freespawn-issues, only MA Akkad will freespawn ghosts and poo poo all over the place, the other nations will have to do with "only" lots of custom summoning. Also it could be that MA Akkad will only spawn ghouls, but I'll cross that bridge if I get that far. MA Akkad will be actually the hardest to play in the end, I think. It's a nation that is basically a version of Asphodel with less deadly dominion and stronger death mages.
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Oct 2, 2014 12:15
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garth ferengi posted:Since sunshine finally ended at the tragically early age of 60 turns, here's a new pudmod EA game, goldfish! Just going to signal boost this, a day or two after it gets to 10 players I'll lock it and start harassing people about pretenders.
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Oct 2, 2014 13:04
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Magil Zeal posted:As for Let's Plays, I found this one to be the easiest to follow: http://lparchive.org/Dominions-3/ Though the perspective is admittedly narrow and some of the information is a bit outdated. This is great, thanks! Going through it is helping a lot with insight.
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Oct 2, 2014 13:27
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