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Dr. Fetus posted:Ugh, this chapter sucks. I agree it does make good use of the gameplay to tell a story, but the way the gameplay is used is just frustrating and doesn't really make me want to play through the game. Mother 3 is a good game, but boy does it have some problems. If you give the beetle enough dung the oasis gets visibly dirty too. Rawkking fucked around with this message at 13:34 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 13:28
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This doesn't affect the healing though.
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Rawkking posted:If you give the beetle enough dung the oasis gets visibly dirty too. Imagine being a dung beetle so poo poo at your life's calling that you have to keep asking for crap from random people passing by.
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Oct 1, 2014 14:35
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Darth TNT posted:Imagine being a dung beetle so poo poo at your life's calling that you have to keep asking for crap from random people passing by. Haha I get it.
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Oct 1, 2014 15:58
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GoatLord posted:This is a little moot now, but clearly he is introducing the evils of money to the idyllic communist utopia. They're not exactly subtle about it, and there's some pretty thick irony in the message of "money is EVIL guys!" being in a video game.
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Oct 1, 2014 16:10
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Fister Roboto posted:They're not exactly subtle about it, and there's some pretty thick irony in the message of "money is EVIL guys!" being in a video game. Not really money, but things that make people greedy/selfish. Mother 3 is anti-selfishness.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:43
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This chapter is rather interesting, I think. Salsa is fairly weak. So despite the fact that Fassad is obviously loathsome, you still have to rely on him in order to progress through the game. It's basically the game trying to give you Stockholm Syndrome.
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Oct 1, 2014 17:48
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Fister Roboto posted:They're not exactly subtle about it, and there's some pretty thick irony in the message of "money is EVIL guys!" being in a video game. That's pretty much what I'm worried about here. Oh well, time will tell I suppose.
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Oct 1, 2014 23:08
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Fister Roboto posted:They're not exactly subtle about it, and there's some pretty thick irony in the message of "money is EVIL guys!" being in a video game. I think you might want to look a little closer! Also why is it inherently ironic for it to be in a videogame? Is it the same for a book/movie?
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Oct 1, 2014 23:24
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Pladdicus posted:I think you might want to look a little closer! Also why is it inherently ironic for it to be in a videogame? Is it the same for a book/movie?
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Oct 1, 2014 23:28
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To be fair, depending on the book or movie, then...The answer is yes. Yes, it's exactly the same. If there's a significant "our goal here is to make a product that makes money" factor in the making of the work, then said work having a "money is evil" theme is kind of silly. Because then, by its own rules, the work itself is evil. In conclusion, something something something, Mother 3 is Capitalist Pigs.
D3m3 fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Oct 1, 2014 |
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Oct 1, 2014 23:34
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Eh. The evils of capitalism/consumerism/etc aren't "this is trying to make money". It's "trying to make money to the expense of everything else". The townsfolk aren't corrupted by having money. They're corrupted when protecting their money means more to them than the word, well being, or trust of their neighbors. Turning on a family he's known his entire life for something that has no real value to him? That's the problem, not just "oh hey I have this stuff I want to keep it safe". Similarly in media having an overall anti-consumerism bent is not an inherent contradiction. It's when you're selling something just to make money, with no artistic or social value beyond it's ability to make money, that you're being hypocritical. If Transformers 4 had a strong anti-merchandizing message, that would be hypocritical. Mother 3? I feel pretty comfortable just from what's already been covered in the LP so far that it's not going to fall into that trap.
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Oct 2, 2014 00:14
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D3m3 posted:To be fair, depending on the book or movie, then...The answer is yes. Yes, it's exactly the same. If there's a significant "our goal here is to make a product that makes money" factor in the making of the work, then said work having a "money is evil" theme is kind of silly. Because then, by its own rules, the work itself is evil. In conclusion, something something something, Mother 3 is Capitalist Pigs. I guess my greater point is that it doesn't say that at all. CmdrKing posted:If Transformers 4 had a strong anti-merchandizing message, that would be hypocritical. Is it due to the popularity of the work or an inherent idea that it's made for the express purpose of money? The work can say whatever it wants, so long as it says it well and makes you think scrape in all the money you want. I think Mother 3 is quite good, but I wouldn't place that quality much on its philosophies.
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Oct 2, 2014 00:55
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Holy crap, they really want you to hate Fassad, huh?
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Oct 2, 2014 01:09
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Pladdicus posted:I guess my greater point is that it doesn't say that at all. I never actually said it said that I felt it held this philosophy. The bit at the end, given that it contained the phrase "something something something," was meant in jest, to show that I'm not actually taking the whole notion terribly seriously. I was more responding the idea that people seemed to think games were being treated as different from other media; I think they're being treated the same. And since we're still on it, whether or not I really think that contradiction applies to Mother 3 aside, I also don't think it really matters. It's a silly contradiction where it arises, but I don't think sometimes things being silly is a big deal. Otherwise, we would not be having this discussion in a thread where the player is literally a dancing monkey right now. They're different types of silly, but my point remains.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:24
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Pladdicus posted:I think you might want to look a little closer! Also why is it inherently ironic for it to be in a videogame? Is it the same for a book/movie? Generally, I'd say yes. The whole thing just feels way too Captain Planet-y to me. And I'm not sure why I need to look closer, it has all the subtlety of a freight train. And it's going to get worse.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:30
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Fister Roboto posted:Generally, I'd say yes. The whole thing just feels way too Captain Planet-y to me. And I'm not sure why I need to look closer, it has all the subtlety of a freight train. The lp does you a little bit of different perspective. Chapter 1 does a really good job making you care about all the villagers. They support you in flint's darkest hours. They are there on almost every screen of chapter 1. When you go to the bazaar you don't want to take more then you need. You almost feel bad wasting the village' s resource if you won't use it. When that one dude starts accusing duster, you feel genuinely hurt/angry. It is subtle but you feel the sense of community fall part in that scene. Everything is different from now on. The bad guys have won. They have superior firepower and they destroyed the community's trust in each other. Yes money was the cause but it isn't the big issue. Shwqa fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 03:05
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Speaking of money, has money been dropping from enemies at all, or is it just item drops? I assume that, for now at least, there's no equivalent to Ness's dad who pays you for beating up enemies.
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Oct 2, 2014 03:12
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Dirk the Average posted:Speaking of money, has money been dropping from enemies at all, or is it just item drops? I assume that, for now at least, there's no equivalent to Ness's dad who pays you for beating up enemies. Just item drops, what use is there of money? The shops just give you all their items. There has been barter systems based on enemy drops though.
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Oct 2, 2014 03:19
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I guess I'm the only one who liked this chapter, some gameplay variety every now and then is always nice in my book, plus it's an interesting take on Earthbound's way of throwing you a curveball by having the difficulty spike to rub in the fact that you're on your own. Plus, when I played it, it didn't feel as bad as the likes of Earthbound's dreaded Peaceful Rest Valley. And yeah, much of this chapter seems to be designed to make you feel awful, but at least it's good at it.Shwqa posted:Just item drops, what use is there of money? The shops just give you all their items. There has been barter systems based on enemy drops though. fixelbrumpf fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 05:05
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fixelbrumpf posted:I guess I'm the only one who liked this chapter, some gameplay variety every now and then is always nice in my book, plus it's an interesting take on Earthbound's way of throwing you a curveball by having the difficulty spike to rub in the fact that you're on your own. Plus, when I played it, it didn't feel as bad as the likes of Earthbound's dreaded Peaceful Rest Valley. And yeah, much of this chapter seems to be designed to make you feel awful, but at least it's good at it. It's also got one of my favorite music tracks coming up soon! I didn't mind this chapter, really. I do remember the fights being annoying sometimes, but having the different perspective of Salsa as a character made up for it.
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Oct 2, 2014 05:11
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Thing about Salsa is that he's there as a tutorial for attack items. The game's handed them out before, but party members have generally been sufficient enough with their own powers that you don't need to use them that much. Not Salsa though. If you want to get though that boss fight with the Cactus Wolf without depending on the RNG to roll your way for Fassad, attack items are your friend. Speaking of which, I don't know if you're just being facetious about the Ancient Bananas because you want to show them off later, but there was one in the desert that you could have used in that fight, and the Sara-Sara-Saharas drop more. They're pretty decent in battle, a lot better than Salsa trying to punch things. e: Also, the Cactus Wolf is extremely vulnerable to crying, despite the fact that you wouldn't have anything to make him cry. Kinda weird. Blastinus fucked around with this message at 06:09 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 06:07
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D3m3 posted:I never actually said it said that I felt it held this philosophy. Shwqa posted:Just item drops, what use is there of money? The shops just give you all their items. There has been barter systems based on enemy drops though. This is a wonderful thing.
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Oct 2, 2014 06:11
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Lord_Ventnor posted:Holy crap, they really want you to hate Fassad, huh? I read the update yesterday, was just checking my bookmarked threads for new posts, read this, and the first thing my sleepy brain thinks is 'hate Assad? I must be in D&D.' Then I read the rest of the posts and felt silly.
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Oct 2, 2014 08:10
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Salsa's name in Japanese is "Sarusa," "saru" meaning "monkey".  You can also interpret it as a casual "He's a monkey" (saru sa).
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Oct 2, 2014 14:18
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Hirayuki posted:Salsa's name in Japanese is "Sarusa," "saru" meaning "monkey". This is adorable
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Oct 3, 2014 00:21
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It's an interesting experience, having to rely on Fassad to protect you... when he feels like it.
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Oct 4, 2014 10:53
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    This update is all dialogue, which is fine with me because the combat's kind of annoying this chapter.   And I've never seen him talk with anyone, either...No other diversions allowed, so let's mosey into town.  What do you think of the wonderful bag I gave you? Is it to your liking? Oh, it's you, Mr. Fassad. Don't scare me like that... Actually, I was just counting to see how much is in here. Nwahahahaha. Just please be careful that it doesn't get swiped by any thieves.So Butch is really happy to have this useless stuff, I guess.  Just having lots of it can get you anything you want!Further on...  Oh, pardon me. I wasn't paying attention. I'm sorry, but we're in a terrible hurry. If you'll excuse us. Come now, little monkey. We should be off. No new dialogue from Duster in these scenes.   There's the same stuff from Butch, which we've already seen before so I'll skip it. We do learn one new thing from all this, though.  That Fassad was listening in on the conversation.   Salsa's a kind soul, at least, and I guess money's also useless for monkeys.   The inn's pretty sparse, of course, but there's people eager to chat up nonetheless.  This is Tazmily Village. Everyone is nice. This village was much more carefree, until just recently.To continue the plot, we speak with Jackie.    Oh, uh... Fee? There is no "how much" here. Please feel free to stay the night. Still... It's hardly a cumbersome thing to have... Oh. I guess it's okay, then. Your room is the one in the middle. Please make yourself at home, and have pleasant dreams. Thank you very much.   Eee! How cute! Well, then. If you'll excuse us... Come, little Salsa. Let's go to our room, shall we?New dialogue from Bob, plus I forgot to talk to Tessie earlier so here we go. Hey there, monkey. Do you not have a girlfriend? Oh! Good evening! No visiting Lighter tonight, though. Which is not a bad thing, since the room's so cramped and all.    -----  Fassad leaves in the middle of the night, and we're able to follow him. Of course, trying to venture anywhere else will result in Salsa getting zapped.   Everything's progressing smoothly here. You saw someone else hanging around the castle? That's it? You only saw him? Then leave 'im be. He's probably just some villager who got drunk and got himself lost. He's got brown hair, a gloomy feel, slightly bad breath, and looks kind of like a bum? Yeah, don't worry about him.  As if there was any question at this point as to who stole the money.  Salsa will get in nasty trouble if he's caught out, so let's go back to our room and pretend to sleep.   Oh. I see you're not trying to run away. I guess the fear of punishment's turned you into a spineless wimp. Nwehehehehe! -----   Salsa dreams back to the scene where his girlfriend was taken from him.   And then is reawakened back to his living nightmare. How long are you going to sleep?! You stupid monkey! Listen. Just keep doing your tricks all happy-like. Prance around all nice and funny to help charm the villagers. Do a good job, and I'll set you free. I'll even take you back to that girlie monkey. But if you bore the audience... You'll get an extra heaping of punishment! Got that?!This next part is basically just paying attention to Fassad and pushing the direction he goes in. No need to memorize which direction does what. There's a bit more NPC dialogue now in the inn. Have you eaten? I wonder what today's weather will be like.But now let's get to Fassad's big speech, shall we?    Congratulations are in order for the hard work you put in every single day! I've come here today to give you all wonderful news...about happiness!  ...Blue skies. White clouds. Bountiful crops. Stout livestock. Happy families and kindhearted neighbors... This village is filled with so many wondrous things! A tiny speck of uncertainty that steals into each bright day. Is this really how things should be?! Shouldn't we be living much more comfortable, enjoyable lives?! Odd animals that have never been seen before now lurk in our forests, and giant balloon-like objects soar our skies! What's going on?! What's happening to the world we live in?! The word on the wind says that in the very near future, lightning powerful enough to burn down forests and woods will rain down on us almost daily!  You thought to yourself, "Get real! Something like that would never happen!" But I truly believe this will soon be a reality. To live with a smile on your face? But I have good news for you! Today is your lucky day! You can obtain happiness very easily. Even my cute, adorable Salsa is dancing so happily... The reason for this, you see...is that this monkey has gotten a head start on obtaining happiness!  All those who are interested, please raise your hand boisterously. Who wants to be happy?! Go and ask the nice people who want happiness for their names. Please keep your hands raised, folks.Now we can talk to the four people who want happiness, as well as the other people here. Let's start with the uninterested.  I don't need happiness. It's standing right next to me. Happiness, huh... I'll admit, I am a little curious... Happiness leaves when wanted.And now let's talk to those who want happiness.  I'm Biff. I'm not really sure what this is about, but if I can get something out of it, I'll give it a shot. I'm Isaac. I just wanna see if it really is that easy to be happy. I'm Abbey. I respect my husband Abbot. There's nothing bad about having TOO much happiness, is there? My name is Abbot. I've been an avid collector of things ever since I was a boy. It's hard to explain, but just collecting stuff... It somehow makes me happy. Plus, I'd like to see what happiness looks like, too. If even just one more of us can achieve happiness, all will be right in the world! For those of you who didn't raise your hand, please think it over later, and if you decide that you do want happiness after all, feel free to let me know anytime!   Now, then. Come along, little Salsa. Let us return to the Yado Inn.-----  What?! There are other people inside the castle?! Why can't you just kick them out? What?! You can't, because they're too tough?! Alright. I'll be right over once I'm through here. Until then, make SURE you find it! Go deliver them to everyone whose names you took earlier. Abbot, Abbey, Biff, Isaac. Those four people. Where do they live? How should I know?! Go find them yourself! And when you're finished delivering them, don't even think about trying to run away. You'll come straight back to this room. You'll be much more than charred if that happens. ...If you try to run from me or disobey me, I'll make sure to punish that girlie monkey, too!  Then get to it already! I'm making this offer from the kindness of my heart, because I feel just terrible that you're not allowed to eat or drink anything. So be grateful! Nwehehehehehehe!Our next job is to deliver those packages, but this is our first opportunity to explore the town punishment-free, so let's do so! I've added banners to show when the optional town dialogue begins and ends, for those who skip over the town fluff.  Starting with the Yado Inn group... Go show a trick to Mike in Thomas's house. If he likes it, I'm sure he'll give you a cookie. My happiness is inside a bottle at Jackie's bar.We can also go into Lighter's room now.  Oh, a monkey. Eek! Ack! Stay back! Oh, what a cute little monkey you are. Could you be a good boy and leave the room? It's really crowded in here. Sometimes you look at people with such sad eyes, monkey. Eee! How cute! Here, I think even a monkey would like this. This is one of Caroline's prized Nut Breads.Several villagers will give you things if you do tricks for them, though it's only a cookie and a couple pieces of bread, nothing special. Once we go outside, we've got new music to run around to.    Sorry, little monkey. Could you come back some other time? Monkey. *whimper*... (You have such a sad look, Mr. Monkey...)Unlike the other animals, which talk directly to you since you're also an animal, Boney communicates like he's speaking to a human. The animal dialogue seems inconsistent at times in terms of this. Oddly, Lucas is not around right now. In the meantime, let's talk to people around the town square.  Oh, I know! Kangaroo! ...Wait, that's not it. What is that animal called again? You look so sad. Hold on there, li'l monkey... There are dangerous tools everywhere. You don't want to get hurt now, do you? Happiness, huh. For some reason, I'm not quite sure what that word means. My, aren't you an adorable one! Can you do a trick for me? Oho! What a neat trick! Here's your reward. A slightly unclean and not very tasty cookie.And this is how you get a cookie. Talk again... Happiness... I prefer things just as things are now. No free stuff for Salsa, unfortunately. Well, besides the free stuff everyone's giving him.  You stink like a monkey... Oh, you're that monkey that's famous for being happy. Maybe I should've ordered a Happy Box, too. Oh, you poor thing, having to wear such a tight collar... This mouse and the stray dog from around Scamp's house are also in the square. The mouse is quite chatty.  The truth is... For a long time, I've been taking nuts I find in the forest and then hiding them in this house. But, when I went to check on them the other day... they had... ALL BEEN MADE INTO BREAD!! ...Huh...? You don't seem very scared. I know that you're unhappy. I also know that Isaac's house is at the entrance to the forest...  Oh, what a cute little monkey! Oh! What a neat dance! In appreciation for that neat dance, I'll give you some bread.And thus we net more bread. Was I spacing out and thinking to myself again? I really enjoyed that dance of yours earlier. But that man's speech was kind of creepy.Paul just repeats his line from the speech. Is my Happy Box ready yet? I'm really looking forward to it. I've been waiting for you, Mr. Monkey! ...Oh, you're not here on a delivery, are you?Next is Pusher's house, which is rather anti-monkey.  Why exactly is there a monkey in my home? You're an eyesore. Could you please go away? Get! Get! Oh, my! I do say! What a filthy monkey! Shoo! Shoo! Off with you! Whew. So busy, so busy. Umm, monkey? ...Can't you see I'm busy?! I have nothing to give you.Now to the east side of town. Wess isn't around since he's busy infiltrating the castle with Duster and all.  Keep up the good work, Mr. Monkey. Hello, Mr. Monkey. ...... I'm sorry, but I don't understand monkey language. You're troubled, aren't you? You may find yourself in painful situations... But I'm a bit pained myself. ...*mutter* *mumble* ...Moving on. Huh? So where IS this so-called happiness I ordered? Can you run fast? I'm slow. Have you put on weight lately? I'm on a diet. You a bachelor? I'm a bachelor. Do you know the secret about MOTHER 3? 'Cause I do. I'm not telling, though.Squeal it, pig.  What are cows like from a monkey's point of view? You know how animals talk and all that? I wonder how it sounds to humans. Never fear. I am not a carnivorous cow. Do you suppose a cow's cuteness is related to the deliciousness of its meat? What do you want, you filthy little monkey? Shoo! Get outta here! You can still grab Thunder Bombs, of course. A few more to go! Do you come from far away? Gwah! Hey, you! Get outta here! Don't scare the messenger doves! Shoo! Shoo!You can't talk to the doves.  Do you know how to say "monkey" in English? ...Ahh! I gave the answer away! I don't want anything from you. Where's the thing I ordered? Come on, bring it here already.And up in the graveyard...  If you need something from the map-loving, map-owning Mapson, it must be a map, yes? Oh, you're a monkey, but you have a map. For some reason, I'm just itching to mark it. Let me see that for a second. I just marked Abbot's, Biff's, and Isaac's houses for no real reason. Ahh, that feels much better!  You can now enter this room from the right passage of the crossroads area, but honestly this is the best item here, the rest being nuts or Nut Bread or whatever. At least this will eventually turn into Yogurt.   Anyway, we've got to deliver these to four different people. We can't run while carrying them. I go to Isaac's first. There's still the mantises and mice there from previous chapters, and the mice are actually kind of threatening for pitiful Salsa. I just opt to run away when I encounter them.   Good work. That must've been heavy. Give my thanks to Mr. Fassad for his generous gift.  One down, three to go!  For some reason, I actually do feel happy.Two done!    Huh? You ordered one too, Abbey? Then I'll cancel my order. Sorry about that. Fortunately, you only have to deliver one box to Abbot and Abbey, as the other will cancel theirs. I set it up there to see how it looks. Dunno why, but the fact you can be happy as long as you have this makes me happy! Hahahahahaha!Alright, that was pretty quick even with all the chatter, let's go back and get our reward.  I was planning to give you a Special Banana if you had delivered them all in under 3 minutes, but I guess you don't really want one.  Oh yeah, the whole "Deliver them under 23 minutes" was bullcrap. Your time is irrelevant, Fassad will punish you regardless and eat your banana. Hey, you! How long are you gonna stay unconscious?! Next time, we get back to combat! Hoo...ray?
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Oct 8, 2014 23:25
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The fact that the happy boxes are CRTs makes everything seem so quaint.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:17
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Here's another part of the game using the gameplay to help tell the story. Timed missions aren't exactly an uncommon element in video games, so the player is naturally going to do their best to do the little "Mini-game" only to learn that they're not going to get any mechanical reward from the effort they just put in.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:20
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Fassad is shown talking on the phone (technically a PHS, I understand) a couple of times in this update. Do we hear his phone ring, by any chance? I've forgotten when that happens.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:35
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As strange as it seems, these "happy boxes" are not TVs.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:30
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This is one of my favorite tunes from Mother 3. It really helps make this part more memorable, and tolerable. This whole section is why I do like chapter 3 despite the combat being more annoying with Salsa. You get an interesting perspective by hanging out with Fassad and seeing his plans unfold. Lots of games have a hostage gimmick, or a temporarily-working-for-the-bad-guys gimmick, but I can't think of any that have you so immersed like this in the nitty gritty details of their schemes.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:32
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Wait....it doesn't matter? No matter how fast you do it, he still shocks Salsa, eats the banana, and calls you an idiot? gently caress off, Fassad. If he doesn't die, I'm gonna have an issue with this game.
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Oct 9, 2014 04:11
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That monkey sure can dance. Can we see a video of the Big Speech at some point?
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Oct 9, 2014 04:48
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Hirayuki posted:Fassad is shown talking on the phone (technically a PHS, I understand) a couple of times in this update. Do we hear his phone ring, by any chance? I've forgotten when that happens. Double-checking the video I recorded, it rings both times it pops up. Pittsburgh Lambic posted:That monkey sure can dance. Can we see a video of the Big Speech at some point? Sure, I could upload it when I've got some free time.
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Oct 9, 2014 09:35
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I like how none of the villagers (and so far, no one in the thread) tweak to the fact that his name, phonetically, is literally "lie". A sign of how oblivious they are that he can basically go up to them and say "Hello, I am lying to you. Would you like to be happy?" and they still eat it up.
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Oct 11, 2014 14:34
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frozentreasure posted:I like how none of the villagers (and so far, no one in the thread) tweak to the fact that his name, phonetically, is literally "lie". A sign of how oblivious they are that he can basically go up to them and say "Hello, I am lying to you. Would you like to be happy?" and they still eat it up. It took me a shamefully long time to get façade from Fassad.
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Oct 11, 2014 16:06
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His name in Japanese is "Yokuba," which is three-fourths of the word for "greedy".
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Oct 11, 2014 16:11
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I had Earthbound for the SNES and loved it, until the ending. The goddamn "I miss you" voice clip during the end credits makes me sad. Thanks for doing Mother 3!
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Oct 12, 2014 01:38
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 07:35 |
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frozentreasure posted:I like how none of the villagers (and so far, no one in the thread) tweak to the fact that his name, phonetically, is literally "lie". A sign of how oblivious they are that he can basically go up to them and say "Hello, I am lying to you. Would you like to be happy?" and they still eat it up. Fasad is an Islamic concept that deals with disorder and moral corruption. Kudos to the translation team on this one.
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Oct 12, 2014 01:46
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