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Arivia posted:Speaking of source ports, a question: I've been using Zandronum so far since I like not rebooting into Windows to shoot imps, and it was the first port I saw an OS X version for. I poked at ZDoom a bit last night, and there are builds of it for OS X, but there are no GZDoom builds for OS X. Are there some WADs that use only GZDoom (say stuff like Winter's Edge or whatever it is with really big graphical emphasis), or GZDoom more of just a graphical upgrade with little game effects? A GZDoom mod played in ZDoom may suffer from the following problems: - wrong lighting: some GZDoom maps aren't designed for the software renderer's light model, and they will appear too dark in ZDoom. GZDoom also allows to set different values for fog and fade colors. - lack of dynamic light: some rooms may be darker than intended, and error markers will appear instead of lights placed in the editor. - placeholder sprites for models: people like Enjay tend not to bother making sprite versions of 3D objects they use in GZDoom maps. So you'll see things like a smiley face or an immobile zombieman standing out there, looking weird. In GZDoom, it'd be a palm tree or a helicopter or whatever. - lack of skies: GZDoom has skyboxes that ZDoom ignores. - lack of custom texture effects: GZDoom allows to define custom texture shaders (it's not often used, though). - invisible ramps: sloped 3D floors are not supported by the software renderer, so they're not rendered. - palette rape: mods for GZDoom often go out of the palette. Arivia posted:2) How do you find out what source ports a WAD is compatible with? Do they usually come with a readme or is it on their page or something? What about gameplay changes - like jumping or free aiming? I have to admit I'm growing to like the tight feel of Doom without jumping or vertical aiming, so I'd rather just keep it that way unless a WAD needs something else. As for vertical aim, it's only a cheat in case of height puzzles (often used with switches you have to shoot, like the two in the imp building of MAP16 in Doom II; and of course most famous for the Icon of Sin rocket fire) and a little bit for when you are aiming at monsters that are further away than other monsters. Like if you're standing near the edge of a cliff, you're aiming a rocket at a cacodemon flying far away, but there's also a demon closer to you some distance below, so the autoaim would normally pick the demon, and aim the rocket at the ground, and make it explode in your face. It's also a little bit of a cheat in ZDoom since the player's hitscan distance is quadrupled from vanilla, but autoaim still has the same limited range as before, so you can snipe at enemies that are far beyond autoaim range. Arivia posted:3) Was crouching part of the original controls for Doom? There was a dead-end passage in TNT's MAP31 I couldn't enter without crouching, so I wasn't sure if it was just for aesthetic purposes or an actual gameplay thing. Again, maps made specifically for ZDoom or GZDoom are usually designed with crouching in mind. I'm thinking notably of scalliano's Threshold of Pain mapset here as a good example: the first map begins with a linear path through a mountain cliff. Nigh immediately you get stuck unless you jump, and you see a secret area that can only be reached by crouching. This way you're told that jumping and crouching are not just allowed, but may even be necessary in some parts of the map. Cerepol posted:I'm not 100% on if GZDoom and ZDoom maintain feature parity or not. They do. GZDoom has some additional features (all related to OpenGL rendering effects, or necessary for supporting these rendering effects) but otherwise they're identical. Graf Zahl keeps the GZDoom codebase in sync with ZDoom at least once per week.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:21
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Whew. Just played a bit of DemonSteele using the Brutalized Doom 2 remixed maps. Really fun, but also surprisingly exhausting. Maintaining a C or B level combo requires a whole lot of aggressive demon murder in a very short time, and even with frequent dashing around it's easy to lose track of what's going on. It's super intense and loud and crazy and that's probably the intent, but whew, not something I'd play for more than about 20 minutes at a time.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:26
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah I just got Chocolate Doom running on a little Raspberry Pi & LCD and was curious if it could do Brutal Doom too. I doubt zdoom or others would work, at least with this LCD since it doesn't work with GPU accelerated graphics. That's really cool, I was thinking about getting Raspberry Pi and use it for standalone oldschool gaming machine. Is chocodoom fluid on it? Have you tried running BTSX or other mapset on it?
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Oct 2, 2014 01:47
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Oh, I forgot to mention it, going from what Cat Mattress said, every WAD you download from idgames archive will have a (wadname).txt file, and at the very top it'll have "Advanced engine needed : Doom2.exe or compatible." You can judge from this which features you should or shouldn't use, if they don't have the wad lumps to force them off.
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Oct 2, 2014 01:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQsPE7s5BU For the love of poo poo would people stop trying to make 3D models for Doom? PLEASE
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Oct 2, 2014 02:51
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:For the love of poo poo would people stop trying to make 3D models for Doom? PLEASE All I could think of watching that was this.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:55
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I'm terrified by spike nipples.
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Oct 2, 2014 02:57
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Dominic White posted:All I could think of watching that was this. a perfect sync, a great click
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Oct 2, 2014 03:31
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQsPE7s5BU I can't help but feel this one's still the best one I've seen yet, for all that's wrong with it.
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Oct 2, 2014 04:32
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It looks like it was left in the oven too long.
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Oct 2, 2014 04:34
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Shadow Hog posted:Nah, let them keep trying. Maybe sometime before the heat death of the universe, we'll have an actually passable one. It's not THAT horrible, yeah. I'd rather see people try than make more ripoffs of the D3 imp. And if Hunter's Moon and that one GZDooM DayZ style mod are any indication, more 3D poo poo needs to get out for GZDoom.
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Oct 2, 2014 05:41
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Why not just do a low-poly style in the vein of Quake? Would probably be a lot easier than making something that looks on-par with modern games.
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Oct 2, 2014 05:49
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Segmentation Fault posted:Why not just do a low-poly style in the vein of Quake? Would probably be a lot easier than making something that looks on-par with modern games. 
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Oct 2, 2014 06:12
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1:1 voxel recreations of Doom sprites is the only solution edit: I mean in general, it's the only solution to all our problems
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Oct 2, 2014 06:15
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'krog not understand bang club'
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Oct 2, 2014 06:27
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DoombatINC posted:1:1 voxel recreations of Doom sprites is the only solution 
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Oct 2, 2014 06:43
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that was an official 3DR attempt that was never released. someone else converted the enemy/duke sprites to voxels and they looked pretty damned good!
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Oct 2, 2014 06:45
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Do you follow fracktail?
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Oct 2, 2014 06:49
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQsPE7s5BU This looks like poo poo. That's not hyperbole, it actually looks like a walking pile of poo poo.
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Oct 2, 2014 06:54
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I'm so glad gifsounds and youtube mashups are a thing in this thread
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Oct 2, 2014 07:23
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JackMackerel posted:http://forum.zdoom.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=46787 Demonsteele, TS13's newest project, finally has a ZDooM page. It's basically Shadow Warrior 2013, DMC, and Revegenance on cocaine, humping light gun games, especially that one arcade game that relied on a motion control katana. Dominic White posted:DemonSteele is pretty rad. Love the arcade style health system, the kill chains and the emphasis on raw, unchecked aggression. In some ways it makes slaughter-style scenarios easier than a handful of plinking little fodder enemies, which feeds into how it's a crazy power trip. Dominic White posted:Whew. Just played a bit of DemonSteele using the Brutalized Doom 2 remixed maps. Really fun, but also surprisingly exhausting. Maintaining a C or B level combo requires a whole lot of aggressive demon murder in a very short time, and even with frequent dashing around it's easy to lose track of what's going on.  Awwww, thanks guys! I'm really flattered.And you're right, that is definitely the intent. It's loud, crazy, and very intense--all of the design comes from the two basic philosophies of "the player should be rewarded for playing harder" and "whatever damage happens to the player should be his own fault". Successfully attacking grants you more damage to hit harder, which results in better attacks, which results in more damage, and killing enemies with the sword grants you fuel for better sword attacks. Likewise, all enemies now have a windup time to let you know of an incoming attack, even if it's just a subtle one, to let the player know that something is incoming and they should use one of their tools (dodging through projectiles, cutting down projectiles, strafing and taking advantage of a smaller hitbox, armor) to avoid it. Or if they just want to throw all that out the window, kick back and shoot things, the arcade health system should let them play a bit more relaxed and soak ambushes they'd normally guarantee a death in. It's a very experimental approach that I'm still feeling out (not 100% on the Archviles and Barons yet), but I'm really eager to flesh it out more and I'm really glad to hear you're liking it.
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Oct 2, 2014 07:34
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I didn't like the timing on that youtubedoubler so I made this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-1iA65iwMQ
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Oct 2, 2014 08:12
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Segmentation Fault posted:I didn't like the timing on that youtubedoubler so I made this. The voxel pigcop intro is the icing on the goddamn cake
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Oct 2, 2014 09:19
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Segmentation Fault posted:I didn't like the timing on that youtubedoubler so I made this. I played this with the volume muted the first time and I STILL HEARD IT.
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Oct 2, 2014 10:20
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euQsPE7s5BU He's actually making that model to make high res sprites from. Later versions look a lot better (but still weird and out of place).
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Oct 2, 2014 14:58
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why would you even want different sprites for Doom, the 2.5D FPS with maybe the best sprite work in the history of the genre
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Oct 2, 2014 15:01
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Fag Boy Jim posted:why would you even want different sprites for Doom, the 2.5D FPS with maybe the best sprite work in the history of the genre 100% truth. All the monsters have distinct silhouettes and colors. You always know exactly what you're up against and they almost never clash with the background. I love me some DN3D, but it's been 18 (HOLY gently caress) years and I still don't quite know what I'm looking at:  They sure die good though.
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Oct 2, 2014 15:13
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TerminusEst13 posted:
Awesome work Terminus! I've been waiting for another arcade score attack mod for Doom to go with Reelism. Can't wait to see what else you put into it  Anyone else who's tried this, what are some recommend maps?
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Oct 2, 2014 16:07
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Al Cu Ad Solte posted:100% truth. All the monsters have distinct silhouettes and colors. You always know exactly what you're up against and they almost never clash with the background. It's like a cat-alien, isn't it? Isn't it?  I genuinely don't know.EDIT: Someone should mod in all of the Doom enemies into Duke Nukem 3D. Not just reskinning, but the same behaviour, health, etc. I would love to go up against an army of shotgun zombies with the ripper, or to drop a few 100 pipe bombs on some imps.
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Oct 2, 2014 16:46
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You could just use Samsara, since Duke's in that and he plays basically like he does in Duke:3D edit: also apparently the cat-aliens are supposed to be lizardish things, based on the old concepts and the games with actual 3d models. Karasu Tengu fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 16:50
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I think I recognize the Demonsteele shotgun  What a great mod, though. It's really insane, but I wish dodging felt a little more natural because it's so important.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:19
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:It's like a cat-alien, isn't it? Nah they're Reminded me of Xcom, so I kinda always got it. Plus I remember when I played duke as a kid I had just read a book about some lizardmen or something with a very similar bad-CG lizardman on the cover, so it read pretty clearly to me. Not nearly as clear as the doom sprites, for sure.  Course Doom sprites were 2D art rotoscoped (I think?) over 3D models which were posed and digitized like stop motion. That looks great but its tons of work. Duke on the other hand just used pictures of CG models, like Donkey Kong Country.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:51
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The Imp, zombies, and Pinkie were hand pixeled, but all the big monsters and player were made of physical models they stop motioned into sprites.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:03
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Elliotw2 posted:all the big monsters and player were made of physical models they stop motioned into sprites.  I love this method.
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Oct 2, 2014 18:12
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Doom's sprites were definitely a step up over the 16-bit era ambiguity. Remember Emperor "Dog" Gestahl from FF6?
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Oct 2, 2014 18:34
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Bouchacha posted:Doom's sprites were definitely a step up over the 16-bit era ambiguity. Remember Emperor "Dog" Gestahl from FF6? That's a hand drawn sprite though, and one fitting in a specific square-enix style that wasn't necessarily technically limited. Donkey Kong Country was also 16-bit, and compares more directly. They used pictures of pre-rendered CG models like I think Duke did.  That poo poo looked pretty good for its time. (Also kritters were pretty similar to the duke lizardmen) Touching it up by hand obviously looks even better, but its super time consuming. Another example, also from square, would be Mario RPG:  Which looks pretty drat good. Mortal Kombat was kinda in-between for digitized and rotoscoped. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:12
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Bouchacha posted:Doom's sprites were definitely a step up over the 16-bit era ambiguity. Remember Emperor "Dog" Gestahl from FF6? I still can't tell what that is supposed to represent if not a dog. I try to imagine the snout is actually a moustache, but then I can't figure out what the floppy ears are supposed to be.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:17
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His hair, the black bit is a very boxy hat. Pretty accurate representation of the concept art though 
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Oct 2, 2014 19:20
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It's hard for me to give the sprite artists poo poo when the character has to be small enough that you can hand-count the pixels.
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Oct 2, 2014 19:21
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Man, Yoshitaka Amano's watercolory sketchy art style is so cool, but that is not at all easy to translate to square raster pixels. Compare that to like Akira Toriyama's concept art which comes out looking the EXACT same in-game. Chinook posted:I still can't tell what that is supposed to represent if not a dog. I try to imagine the snout is actually a moustache, but then I can't figure out what the floppy ears are supposed to be. Its either hair or its a big fluffy jacket collar, like Game of Thrones style. Gimnbo posted:It's hard for me to give the sprite artists poo poo when the character has to be small enough that you can hand-count the pixels. Yeah if you've ever tried to draw super-low-res pixel art you realize its loving impossible. A few artists are really good at the style, but otherwise its really hard to make things look decent. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 19:28 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:26
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