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Libluini posted:Just as a short update on my mod project, I've finished the easy part (description, lore, flavour text): One thought about your LA description: I think it's not implied in dominions lore that there's a different Pantokrator for each age, which (I think) is what you mean by the line about the Pantokrator fading. Rather, there's a line of history for EA->MA->LA, and the age where the game is actually played is the one age where the pretenders starting vying for the throne.
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Oct 2, 2014 14:05
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TheresNoThyme posted:One thought about your LA description: I think it's not implied in dominions lore that there's a different Pantokrator for each age, which (I think) is what you mean by the line about the Pantokrator fading. Rather, there's a line of history for EA->MA->LA, and the age where the game is actually played is the one age where the pretenders starting vying for the throne. It's implied that there are a number of previous Pantokrators though, so 
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Oct 2, 2014 14:41
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TheresNoThyme posted:One thought about your LA description: I think it's not implied in dominions lore that there's a different Pantokrator for each age
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Oct 2, 2014 14:45
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Libluini posted:Just as a short update on my mod project, I've finished the easy part (description, lore, flavour text): Looks pretty nice, is it based off something in peculiar or is it simply Holy City Paradise gone Wrong over the ages? What type of aesthetic are you aiming for?
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Oct 2, 2014 15:21
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Yeah, I think you even get the same "the old pantokrator is dead, good luck trying to become the next one" messages in every age, so this pantokrator-business seems to run on wheel-of-time-rules. Another short update, as long as I'm motivated to work at this: I forgot I also need some short nation descriptions in addition to the normal ones, so I typed them up real fast. EA Lagash posted:Lagash is a land of magic, populated by humans and magical creatures. Humans in Lagash have barely developed bronze armor and weapons and have to depend on their court mages to survive in battle. The land itself has grown cold in recent years, but magic itself protects the people living in it. MA Akkad posted:Akkad is a great empire of humans and magical beings working in concert. Magic beings are summoned by court mages to support the human infantry and cavalry in battle. The first iron weapons have been forged to aid them. But priests have summoned death itself and life in Akkad can be short. LA Akkad posted:The glory of Akkad is forgotten, only ruins remain. An ancient order of human excavators roams the ruins of the old capital, sometimes disturbed by insane priests dwelling there. But the old breath of magic is still lingering on the land, waiting. Right now I'm adding a few items as flavor and because I want my mod easily readable. (I tend to just type up everything in the order it goes through my mind, but for a larger project this seems like a recipe for disaster. So instead I make sure to go as closely to the mod loading order as possible.) New Weapons: Enlils Wish EA Lagash Spear of Sargon MA Akkad Sword of the 20th day LA Akkad Doom of the 17th day MA Akkad New Armors: Crown of En-metena EA Lagash Naram-Sins Breath LA Akkad New Magic Items: Seal of Lugalanda EA Lagash (The eras are just there as a reminder for me from which part of real history I stole my inspiration. Right now, that is. I've yet to see if I can restrict certain items to certain eras/nations later.) The Gentleman posted:Looks pretty nice, is it based off something in peculiar or is it simply Holy City Paradise gone Wrong over the ages? It's mostly based of poo poo I took from the history of Lagash and Akkad. (For example, the real Lagash was indeed taken over by Akkad at some point. Because Akkad took over almost everything.) The great empire of Akkad was also destroyed a few centuries later, but sadly not by the undead, just boring human politics. Mesopotamian history is full of doom and gloom, they're a lot like the Norse in that regard. Two of the items are references to something I found in a book about Babylonian and Assyrian history. I stumbled upon that while searching for more sources on Akkadian history. The book was in German and that particular part reads like a prophecy of doom, but is apparently just meant to teach some kind of Mesopotamian magic/astrology. I couldn't find the English translation for what it is, but the next best thing I could come up with is "Omen lore". All three nations are, when taken together, a story of change, disaster, hope. That's the theme I'm going with. Mostly because LA is a bit to moody sometimes, so I plan on having the sad poo poo in the earlier ages and then on having the resurgent LA Akkad just rampage across everything with huge armies of summoned monsters and mages. "We're back guys!" Libluini fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 15:42
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A couple of things mention previous Pantokrators, like The Seal was made by the Pantokrator prior to EA (the First Pantokrator if sources are to be believed) who apparently rose while there were still a bunch of pretenders alive so he stuffed all those pretenders into 3 titan bodies and locked them behind The Seal by sacrificing a ton of Agarthan souls to become Umbrals; living cement to keep The Seal in place. Then he locked the Earth Made Flesh away because she dared to demand compensation for the Agarthan's sacrifice. e: Also   For reference, I owned the highlighted province until the previous turn when I also lost it to a random werewolf attack. GG Dominions4 RNG, you win this round. Neruz fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 16:10
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Garth/modpud, is there a link to the Marverni unit images anywhere? They aren't in the zip you linked, or weren't when I downloaded it.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:15
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A dumb question: The modding manual states a nation can have up to six heroes. But how many heroes does a nation commonly have? Can you look that up somewhere? I want to add some heroes to my nations, but I also don't want to go overboard if it turns out six heroes are twice as much as every other nation has.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:11
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Libluini posted:A dumb question: The modding manual states a nation can have up to six heroes. But how many heroes does a nation commonly have? Can you look that up somewhere? I want to add some heroes to my nations, but I also don't want to go overboard if it turns out six heroes are twice as much as every other nation has. http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=unit&showmoddinginfo=1&showkeys=1&showmodcmds=1&unittype=9&unitnat=1&nation=6 Most only have about three.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:15
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Some have none, a few have six, lots have two or three.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:17
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fool_of_sound posted:http://larzm42.github.io/dom4inspector/?page=unit&showmoddinginfo=1&showkeys=1&showmodcmds=1&unittype=9&unitnat=1&nation=6 Huh. I forgot about that, thanks. goatface posted:Some have none, a few have six, lots have two or three. Welp, none would be weird. I guess I make at least two for each, six total. Should be managable.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:21
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Yep, and it's not like you can't use slightly restatted ones with a tinily different description in different eras!
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Oct 2, 2014 20:27
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i actually have an idea for a late age asphodel that i should probably get on at least putting together in a coherent fashion
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Oct 2, 2014 20:34
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i actually have an idea for a late age asphodel that i should probably get on at least putting together in a coherent fashion A huge conflagration destroys all the plant zombies, turning them all into reanimated heat-radiating charcoal monsters?
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Oct 2, 2014 20:42
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jBrereton posted:Yep, and it's not like you can't use slightly restatted ones with a tinily different description in different eras! I think king Sargon will show up in every age. Three out of six done!  In the meantime, here's a nice picture of ancient Lagash I found: 
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Oct 2, 2014 20:43
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Agent Kool-Aid posted:i actually have an idea for a late age asphodel that i should probably get on at least putting together in a coherent fashion It's spectral satyrs isn't it. GoR one and use it to ghost-seduce female earth mages. 
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Oct 2, 2014 20:48
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:A huge conflagration destroys all the plant zombies, turning them all into reanimated heat-radiating charcoal monsters? more along the lines of the pans and carrion lords mostly burning themselves out in their effort to wipe out humans with the carrion lords taking root and growing into immobile tree-like units. nation's administration taken over by the black dryads who are the main mages/priests with harpies doing minor magical/holy work. nation will have more of an 'autumn' theme to represent the dying march of the last rebel pangeans. also, the rampant, lovely chaff will be replaced by rarer, more powerful free spawn made out of the sacred bones of dead minotaurs and centaurs that are collected by the priest harpies and brought to the leading dryads. it's a bit more organized in my notes but it's what i plan to learn dom4 modding with.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:53
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jBrereton posted:Garth/modpud, is there a link to the Marverni unit images anywhere? Whoops, my bad! https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/21409916/pudmod%200_051%20FIXED.rar
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Oct 2, 2014 22:07
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A last thing for today:    On the three custom flags, LA Akkad has Ur negative (simple, but effective), MA Akkad has Ur negative + red sprinkles + black to get some kind of "tainted" feel on it and EA Lagash has Ur negative, but with green sprinkles to differentiate the look a bit. And that makes three more flags with Mesopotamian feel, thanks to the power of recycling (and GIMP)! Next part on my agenda: Units, sites and spells. Also I should make valid gods for the new nations so the game doesn't crash anymore if you try to start a game with them. Would be helpful in case I want to test them.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:07
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Keep at it Libluini, I'm excited to give these a try 
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Oct 2, 2014 22:26
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 Dear Caelum players, Please stop sending your super expensive StR guys against me without sufficient army support. I'm not sure why it's happening with multiple players in multiple games but seriously it's embarrassing for you all.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:51
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Neruz posted:e: Also After throne of beasts was claimed in that game, I got an attack from a pack of dogs and though "oh nice they actually did balance that crappy lvl 1 throne" The very next turn, 2 separate werewolf attacks....
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Oct 3, 2014 00:52
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Libluini posted:Next part on my agenda: Units, sites and spells. Also I should make valid gods for the new nations so the game doesn't crash anymore if you try to start a game with them. Would be helpful in case I want to test them.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:55
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GenericOverusedName posted:
Hey man, when I get all my mages killed I get an army killed with them.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:10
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Oct 3, 2014 05:24
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Flame112 posted:Hey man, when I get all my mages killed I get an army killed with them. I'm not sure a smattering of <50 counts as an army. Expansion party, sure, but when the opponent is fielding triple digits it's probably not enough.
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Oct 3, 2014 12:54
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jBrereton posted:You can just give them the default #homerealm 10 and they'll be playable at the very least! Thanks, your tip reminded me of the #homerealm-order and the nations have their homerealms now. (Middle Eastern, of course. Being Mesopotamian and all that.) As an aside, while modding the startsites I threw up some startsites for Lagash for fast testing, but I run into this error message: quote:randomsite: bad highestsite -1 Now I tried some things already, like looking if I mistyped the names while assigning them, or making sure they're all unique and won't show up as random sites somewhere else. I've also only three startsites assigned to Lagash, and I can assign up to four. The error persists, however. Has someone an idea what Dom4 wants to tell me with this message?
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Oct 3, 2014 13:26
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Could you post the code of the startsites and how they're assigned? I promise not to steal it and make a Mesopotamian-themed nation with similar sites and a 3-era metastructure.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:56
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jBrereton posted:Could you post the code of the startsites and how they're assigned? I promise not to steal it and make a Mesopotamian-themed nation with similar sites and a 3-era metastructure. Well, they're incredibly barebones right now, just giving gems. (The units aren't done yet.) The startsites look like this: #newsite 1999 #name "Well of Abzu" #rarity 5 #loc 16384 #gems 2 6 #level 0 #path 2 #end And they're assigned in the corresponding nations with lines like this: #startsite "Well of Abzu" Because apparently you can't assign sites by number, which is really weird because there's a lot of stuff which you can assign either by number or name, so I was kind of surprised when the modding manual went "Nope magic sites are different, just names". Edit: I was thinking maybe you can't flag a site as unique and as unusable for random sites a the same time. Was I overdoing it? Libluini fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 16:06
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Don't give the site a number and you should be good to go; you also don't need the loc mask if a site is rarity 5, it's more for adding sites similar to The Steel Ovens where you only want one of them on the map, but they're not necessarily a starting site.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:14
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jBrereton posted:Don't give the site a number and you should be good to go; you also don't need the loc mask if a site is rarity 5, it's more for adding sites similar to The Steel Ovens where you only want one of them on the map, but they're not necessarily a starting site. Thanks, this worked and my (still completely empty) new nation finally started without crashing! Also a new, empty nation apparently gets a friar and a small army of pikemen and crossbowmen as starting force. Weird. Apparently Marignon subcontracts soldiers to other, less developed nations to help them out.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:30
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GenericOverusedName posted:
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Oct 3, 2014 18:40
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Bringing 18 bad troops to a fight doesn't really work unless your mages are super beefy and summon lots of chaff quickly (like EA Yomi for instance). Based on that battle result screen, I'm guessing the Caelum mages thunderstruck a bunch of chaff and then fell asleep while they were killed. Maybe they were Rigor Mortis'd (which is often what causes full kills of armies), or maybe they were nuked or swarmed by skeletons while recovering from their thunderstrikes?
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Oct 3, 2014 18:50
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Update on my mod-project: Yes, it is possible to give your starting sites negative gold and ressource-income. In my test the game started and turned without trouble even though the income-loss was higher then the income itself. The game just reduced income and ressources to zero and called it a day. This means the plan for a purely gem-driven economy is a go. For gameplay-reasons, I'll set the starting sites to something ridiculous like -9999 gold to neutralize the gold income of the player without handicapping everyone else on the map. Instead, you'll get a shitload of gems to work with. And just in case zero income makes to much trouble, I balanced it so every temple gives you gems, too. With gems from every temple you build plus your sizable starting sites, every player should get more then enough. After I finish up the units and summon-spells, I'll play around a bit to see how the economy works out for some tweaks.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:25
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How can you build temples when you have no income at all?
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Oct 3, 2014 20:33
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Have Some Flowers! posted:Bringing 18 bad troops to a fight doesn't really work unless your mages are super beefy and summon lots of chaff quickly (like EA Yomi for instance). You were pretty much right. They thunderstruck the lines of rhinos. I got Flaming Arrows up and that killed most of their nonexistant army, and a few mages. One the lion queens went off-script and managed to land a Flare right in the middle of the mageball, it was glorious. Finally then the boudas spammed enough skeletons to take out everything left alive. A few of the squads of troops routed but they got stuck behind the skeleton wall, which was a bit funny.
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Oct 3, 2014 20:47
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Can I get some input on good ideas/possibilities for EA C'tis pretender/scales design, or general strategy? I'm picking a nation that sounds cool as generally suggested (Egyptiopotamian Lizardmen that drown people in skeletons sounds  ) but I know basically nothing else from there beyond "find out how to summon skeletons, throw skeletons at people."
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Oct 3, 2014 20:55
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Torrannor posted:How can you build temples when you have no income at all? This problem is something I literally thought about after I hit "submit". So well, I'll try to think of a solution. First off I should make enough units and summons to fill up my first nation, so I can do actual economy-tests. Right now I think I should use the starting sites to introduce some sort of "balance-cap" in terms of gold: If you get over a certain ceiling, you suddenly can get gold and presumably build temples and forts. The alternative I also thought about would have been reducing the cost of temples and forts to zero, but that of course opens up a whole other can of worms. I will make a final decision here when the first nation is more then just a few sites and a flag. If the hybrid-nations with both recruitables and summons (EA and MA) suffer too much, I'll try to find a better solution. Maybe the LA-nation doesn't need more then the one temple back home if I add enough summonable units spreading dominion? There are after all nations with dying dominion and other shenannigans, so why not? Edit: Something I forgot. This: Lagash Militia, shortbow, dagger, lovely precision, lovely protection, lovely morale, cheap Lagash Militia, spear (length 4), dagger, see above Lagash Noble (Commander), chariot, shortbow, javelins, bronze sword, good precision, medium protection, medium morale, expensive Is literally 99% of what an army looked like back then. So now I'm adding magic units to help them out.
Libluini fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 21:00
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Lib, I'd go with -400 gold or thereabouts plus -400 or so resources. That's going to negate capital gold and res income except for incredibly high scales builds (which is obviously going to mean less magic for summons/bless potential) while still making the faction capable of building temples and labs etc., plus dabbling with mercenaries unless you just put them totally out of reach in terms of cost. You can do fort summoning spells easily enough with effect #10063 and then one or more things from Table 34 of the modding manual (in LA I'd guess I'd go for #damage 4, which is Castles?), but there's no way to do that for temples afaik, and unless we get a really comprehensive event table and a spell command to make any numbered event happen along with the next patch, it'll be a while before we get event-causing spells tied to things like temples and labs being erected. jBrereton fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 21:12
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Does income come before or after ritual spells in turn resolution? If it's before, you could give them a zero-research version of one of the gems-to-gold spells - you cast it, then next turn it resolves after your ridiculous negative income and you have some money that turn (but will presumably lose it the turn after). edit: It seems like the ridiculous-negative-income starting site would make their capital one hell of a poison pill for other nations, though. You'd need to figure out how to defeat them without actually conquering the province or your income gets dunked. Benly fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 21:19
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