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We, um, really don't know enough to assume that they handled the cleanup improperly. I don't get why everyone is assuming this image indicates improper procedure.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:37
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IAMNOTADOCTOR posted:Again, that paper is not intended for field cases as it clearly states: "is intended to support local risk assessments in a laboratory setting." You're right. I suppose I'm a bit disappointed in Texas for unnecessarily exposing additional individuals who would not have been had everyone followed CDC's procedures and checklists. I don't suppose you'd be willing to talk about environmental contamination for those of us who haven't had to really deal with it in field conditions before?
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Oct 3, 2014 00:38
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Discendo Vox posted:We, um, really don't know enough to assume that they handled the cleanup improperly. I don't get why everyone is assuming this image indicates improper procedure. Well, they also let it sit out there for days after diagnosis of Ebola and quarantined the family in their home with infected bedding, why should we expect this to have been done properly?
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Oct 3, 2014 00:39
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Discendo Vox posted:We, um, really don't know enough to assume that they handled the cleanup improperly. I don't get why everyone is assuming this image indicates improper procedure. Well it doesn't look like the response teams I've seen on tv shows and movies!
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Oct 3, 2014 00:41
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fits my needs posted:Well it doesn't look like the response teams I've seen on tv shows and movies! I get your point but you've got to admit that two dudes in normal street clothes and what looks like a pressure washer (!!) doesn't seem like the kind of thing a CDC best practice sheet would call for. [edit] also I've got to wonder whether before sending those guys over to that apartment complex a responsible manager took them aside and told them "hey by the way you'll be cleaning up stuff that by some fairly remote possibility could infect you with a disease that has a decent chance of killing you, and possibly your family if you are in close contact with them, so be careful ok? also lunch is on me." emfive fucked around with this message at 00:47 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 00:45
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It's definitely not reassuring, as people's reactions here show.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:47
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What's being said about the response and what we actually see being done are at a disconnect. We hear 'all possible precautions are being taken' but then we see what at least looks like complete incompetence.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:53
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Cue people complaining that by quarantining the family with an armed guard will scare people into not reporting their Ebola case.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:56
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My primary concern is that the CDC doesn't have guys they can fly in to, y'know, clean up a single location, and has the contract it out. I don't see how they could handle multiple cases if they're bungling one so badly.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:56
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:My primary concern is that the CDC doesn't have guys they can fly in to, y'know, clean up a single location, and has the contract it out. I don't see how they could handle multiple cases if they're bungling one so badly. I actually never had fears or entertained the idea that Ebola could spread. Until I saw that picture, now I'm not so sure. I like to make fun of our system, but gently caress you system, try harder.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:03
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I haven't read this entire thread; I read the first six pages and then picked up again when the discussion of Ebola's arrival in the U.S. started, but I haven't seen the book that first introduced me to this disease discussed: The Hot Zone, by Richard Preston. The book came out in 1995 and I read it sometime in late 1996 or '97. It was pretty horrifying at the time I read it. I'm sure, being a work of non-fiction, it may have overstated some aspects of the virus and I'm positive that more is known about it today. But, it's sad that in the almost twenty years since it came out the world is really not that much better prepared to handle an outbreak of Ebola. There's no effective treatment or vaccine and everyone is just talking about containing the outbreak and letting it burn itself out.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:06
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Is there any chance of the ebola virus mutating to an airborne pathogen? I feel like that's when we can start panicking because we'd all be utterly hosed then. As of right now it's extremely hard to catch and unlikely to be of much harm to anyone in the West (aside from those with direct contact to the disease, obviously).
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Oct 3, 2014 01:08
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Does anyone have a source for that street photo? reverse image lookup only gives reddit and free republic. We're better than that, surely?
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Oct 3, 2014 01:08
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:My primary concern is that the CDC doesn't have guys they can fly in to, y'know, clean up a single location, and has the contract it out. I don't see how they could handle multiple cases if they're bungling one so badly. It wouldn't scale if the CDC handled cleanup themselves. Local hospitals have to clean up nasty poo poo. Its more effective to define standards and procedures, then mandate them and provide training. The US is a humongous country. Over 300 million people. Yes, people are loving up the response in Texas somewhere. I don't see how someone can say that this response represents the average response across America. It's not an indictment of the healthcare system. It's not a sign that there's not enough money to pay for an Ebola outbreak, whatever the gently caress that means.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:14
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Captain Mog posted:Is there any chance of the ebola virus mutating to an airborne pathogen? I feel like that's when we can start panicking because we'd all be utterly hosed then. As of right now it's extremely hard to catch and unlikely to be of much harm to anyone in the West (aside from those with direct contact to the disease, obviously). No
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Oct 3, 2014 01:14
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Captain Mog posted:Is there any chance of the ebola virus mutating to an airborne pathogen? I feel like that's when we can start panicking because we'd all be utterly hosed then. As of right now it's extremely hard to catch and unlikely to be of much harm to anyone in the West (aside from those with direct contact to the disease, obviously). Probably not. In fact, no.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:15
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Captain Mog posted:Is there any chance of the ebola virus mutating to an airborne pathogen? I feel like that's when we can start panicking because we'd all be utterly hosed then. Its impossible to calculate with any degree of certainty but its always plausible given enough time and exposure pathogens can pick up additional vectors. It doesn't have to be airborne. Insect vectors are one of the worst. But it usually requires several mutations to achieve and there is no guarantee those mutations wouldn't harm the pathogen's viability in other traits even more.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:15
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Discendo Vox posted:Does anyone have a source for that street photo? reverse image lookup only gives reddit and free republic. We're better than that, surely? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg3mFdVYDu4 I mean, it seems pretty unlikely that there is any active virus left (at this point) but what a loving gong show to have left it lying around until it's no longer dangerous. It's just amazing how terribly handled everything has been - the initial admission into the hospital; the painfully stupid prescription of antibiotics for a flu, the failure to follow diagnostic protocol, the release of loving patient zero in NA, the subsequent readmission, the contaminated ambulance, the street vomit, the stupid home quarantine for the family, so poorly managed they needed to try to leave for basic necessities, the contaminated home of patient zero still not being rigorously decontaminated, and finally, getting around to cleaning up bodily fluid in a kinda lovely, haphazard fashion just caps it off. It's a loving great start, if what we want is to maximize the chances of spreading that poo poo around.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:18
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zen death robot posted:I would have assumed the CDC and state health officials would have had a team or two that was trained to handle this sort of thing on hand. Sure, ebola isn't something we typically deal with but aren't they supposed to be ready for some kind of bioterrorism attack? Never overestimate your government. Did everyone actually think all of the jokes about the US using all of our money to bomb brown people were just jokes? Oh, I'm not attacking you, I'm simply dying inside a little more as I look at that picture and read the news. Pohl fucked around with this message at 01:24 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 01:19
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Discendo Vox posted:Does anyone have a source for that street photo? reverse image lookup only gives reddit and free republic. We're better than that, surely? It's from a Dallas local news site, but it was also filmed separately and shown on CNN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg3mFdVYDu4
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Oct 3, 2014 01:24
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Discendo Vox posted:Does anyone have a source for that street photo? reverse image lookup only gives reddit and free republic. We're better than that, surely? Through the Dallas Morning News website, I found this twitter account of Jennifer Lindgren, a CBS 11 news person. She has a photo of the hazmat truck showing up to do the cleaning. Who you gonna call? 
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Oct 3, 2014 01:25
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swampcow posted:It wouldn't scale if the CDC handled cleanup themselves. Local hospitals have to clean up nasty poo poo. Its more effective to define standards and procedures, then mandate them and provide training. The US is a humongous country. Over 300 million people. The CDC has been in charge since the diagnosis and contracted out the clean up.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:26
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If they pretreated the vomit with bleach, it's perfectly fine for them to then clean it up with a pressure washer.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:29
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http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola-n217271
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Oct 3, 2014 01:31
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Xandu posted:http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola-n217271 quote:
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Oct 3, 2014 01:34
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Xandu posted:http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/ebola-virus-outbreak/nbc-news-freelancer-africa-diagnosed-ebola-n217271 I'm going to guess an NBC cameraman wasn't handling Ebola victims or Ebola-infected waste so that's kinda scary.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:35
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm going to guess an NBC cameraman wasn't handling Ebola victims or Ebola-infected waste so that's kinda scary. From what I understand you could pick it up from local aerosols or touching infected surfaces, so considering he was probably in infected regions it isn't that surprising.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:36
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TOOT BOOT posted:I'm going to guess an NBC cameraman wasn't handling Ebola victims or Ebola-infected waste so that's kinda scary. I don't know if you've watched any of the news videos coming from some of these reporters, but a lot of them are hanging outside ebola clinics talking with people waiting to be let in.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:36
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radical meme posted:Through the Dallas Morning News website, I found this twitter account of Jennifer Lindgren, a CBS 11 news person. She has a photo of the hazmat truck showing up to do the cleaning. Who you gonna call? Everyone made fun of me for talking about Capitalism and cost. Look at this poo poo.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:36
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:The CDC has been in charge since the diagnosis and contracted out the clean up. Do you think they would handle cleanup if a large outbreak occurred? The CDC employs 15k people, and most of them aren't hazmat cleanup crews.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:36
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I don't think proper containment procedures are being followed in Dallas. A man passes a bag, delivered by the Red Cross and the North Texas Food Bank, in to the apartment unit at The Ivy Apartments complex where a man diagnosed with the Ebola virus was staying in Dallas, Texas October 2, 2014.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:43
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Vice covering Ebola: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4AZidJ36nA0 The situation there is insane. Plus the journalists are risking their lives getting these stories for public awareness.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:45
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edit: beaten
EugeneJ fucked around with this message at 02:14 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 01:46
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fits my needs posted:I don't think proper containment procedures are being followed in Dallas. Thanks for the picture of an aid worker having zero risk exposure to someone who's asymptomatic, I guess.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:46
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Captain Mog posted:Is there any chance of the ebola virus mutating to an airborne pathogen? I feel like that's when we can start panicking because we'd all be utterly hosed then. As of right now it's extremely hard to catch and unlikely to be of much harm to anyone in the West (aside from those with direct contact to the disease, obviously). Scientists have not seen a virus change its method of transmission in nature. It has happened under lab conditions, but with bird flu. Obviously you would expect an influenza virus to be able to mutate to become airborne. Anything's possible, but it's not likely. However, Ebola becoming contagious during its incubation period could also be a scenario. That would also probably be less of a mutation leap than it becoming airborne. If you want an example of a virus besides Ebola that spreads through direct or prolonged contact and is only contagious when symptoms appear, check out smallpox. Ebola Roulette fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 01:47
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swampcow posted:Do you think they would handle cleanup if a large outbreak occurred? The CDC employs 15k people, and most of them aren't hazmat cleanup crews. No, but you'd think they'd directly handle the first cases to prevent a larger outbreak where they can't directly control things.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:49
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zen death robot posted:It's cool, he didn't lick their sweat or anything so zero risk right? That's right.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:51
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/02/ebola-patients-waste-remained-texas-apartment-two-daysquote:Earlier, a representative of one of the agencies who issued the control order said that arranging clean bedding was the responsibility of the family – despite the ban on them leaving their home. “The individuals, it’s up to them … to care for the household,” Erikka Neroes of Dallas County health and human services told the Guardian. “Our science tells us, according to CDC, that Ebola virus germs can be killed with soap and water … Dallas County has not been involved in a disinfection process.” I realize the answer is "Because Dallas", but Jesus H. Christ, Texas, there is a place and a time for "every keg on its bottom" self-reliant screw-you bullshit, and that place and time are not "responding to a public health crisis".
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Oct 3, 2014 01:52
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:No, but you'd think they'd directly handle the first cases to prevent a larger outbreak where they can't directly control things. It's an organization of epidemiologists, researchers, doctors and the like, they don't need to be the ones going in and spraying bleach. Besides, biohazardous cleanup happens everyday in the US, that the stakes are higher with ebola doesn't make it more difficult to cleanup.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:53
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Sheng-ji Yang posted:No, but you'd think they'd directly handle the first cases to prevent a larger outbreak where they can't directly control things. Sure, why not, if they can help out. I'm just saying that it's not the CDC's job to field the front line health workers to clean and care for patients. That job has to be done by regional public health officials. In an earlier post, you seemed concerned that the CDC couldn't contain an outbreak directly.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:59
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