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ozza posted:Wow. I just read the Kunai-cho's Wiki too, and came across this: This is absurd, I thought we were bad for forcing the monarchy to ask the parliament for permission to do things like marry and basically treating them like the nation states pets but this is so much worse. 
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Oct 2, 2014 17:43
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I realized that the household agency was awful when I read that one of the reasons why princess Masako was in a funk was because they would not allow her to visit the emperor and empress often enough...her own in-laws.
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Oct 2, 2014 17:51
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Samurai Sanders posted:I realized that the household agency was awful when I read that one of the reasons why princess Masako was in a funk was because they would not allow her to visit the emperor and empress often enough...her own in-laws. They are seriously cultish in my very-very-very limited experience. Reverend Cheddar fucked around with this message at 13:30 on Jun 18, 2020 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:07
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What Reagan thing?
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Oct 2, 2014 19:16
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Japanese society seems very controlling.
Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 19:24 on Oct 2, 2014 |
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Oct 2, 2014 19:17
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ocrumsprug posted:What if ordinary Japanese employees took their allocated holiday time? Or went home when their 8 hours was up? Or even if once their work was done instead of sitting around for an extra four hours waiting for the boss to finally leave? What if employees didn't shower their bosses with gifts? Small Frozen Thing posted:Yeah, but I don't think you can demote or lay off the Imperial Family. Small Frozen Thing's reply is what I was getting at, yeah. I mean, an employee bucks the culture in the offive, they won't get promoted, won't be given good assignments or responsibility on the job, maybe get shunned socially... what do they do with the Imperial Family? I know it would be entirely "improper" and so that's why they stay in line, but I'm just wondering what ultimate power is held over them.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:18
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Did the current princess get super forced into marriage? I've heard some really terrible things about the situation surrounding the courtship from some people, but I don't know enough about the general situation to know if my source is just biased.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:32
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From what I recall it was something like taking one of the more accomplished female public service figures, marrying her, then forcing her to sit alone in a room all day crying.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:52
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Berke Negri posted:From what I recall it was something like taking one of the more accomplished female public service figures, marrying her, then forcing her to sit alone in a room all day crying. For some reason, that sounds quite Japanese.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:01
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Berke Negri posted:From what I recall it was something like taking one of the more accomplished female public service figures, marrying her, then forcing her to sit alone in a room all day crying. Yeah I remember reading about it back when it happened. Basically she was the daughter of a prominent diplomat, moved to the US in her teens, went to Harvard and Tokyo University and was at the absolute top of her class in really competitive programs. She was on the fast track to becoming an important and influential diplomat, but then she caught the Crown Prince's eye and you don't say no to the Crown Prince. Except she did, several times, before finally giving in. I don't know if she really changed her mind or just caved to pressure, but on the surface it looks really sketchy--she clearly had ambition and talent and was looking to make something of her life, and yet suddenly gave all that up to be a permanent Imperial Family Wallflower.
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Oct 2, 2014 21:12
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CronoGamer posted:Small Frozen Thing's reply is what I was getting at, yeah. I mean, an employee bucks the culture in the offive, they won't get promoted, won't be given good assignments or responsibility on the job, maybe get shunned socially... what do they do with the Imperial Family? I know it would be entirely "improper" and so that's why they stay in line, but I'm just wondering what ultimate power is held over them. Are physical threats out of the question?
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Oct 2, 2014 21:15
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To be fair this isn't a uniquely Japanese thing - Price Phillip went through something similar in the UK (though that was pushing 70 years ago, and I can't imagine that Masako trolling, well, everyone the way that Phillip does would ever happen)
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Oct 2, 2014 21:18
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Hasn't the imperial family had a long history of being kept as confined religious pets while the current military leader actually ruled Japan? And that the whole Meiji thing was really more about the figurehead status of the Emperor rather than feeling that that guy, personally, actually ought to specifically be dictator?
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Oct 2, 2014 22:19
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Nessus posted:Hasn't the imperial family had a long history of being kept as confined religious pets while the current military leader actually ruled Japan? And that the whole Meiji thing was really more about the figurehead status of the Emperor rather than feeling that that guy, personally, actually ought to specifically be dictator? The Emperor (with a few notable exceptions) hasn't had any real political power for a very, very long time, even prior to the start of military government in the 1180s, but they've historically been more than just confined pets at the same time. Which feuding faction behind the scenes had control of the Emperor (often through family ties) was in many if not most cases what determined who got to wield real power. Factions sometimes fell from power when a maverick Emperor who decided he'd had enough of his current puppetmasters threw his support behind someone else.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:34
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Shoguns/Warlords are more analogous to Western understanding of royalty. I'm not sure when the Emperor became a sort of religious figurehead instead of more temporal leader but I I imagine you'd have to go pretty far back. Of course by the 21st century most western royalty are now little more than figure heads themselves.
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Oct 2, 2014 22:35
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I'll also point out that Japan based its monarchy handling on what they learned in Britain about 150 years ago and hasn't changed that one iota. (Which is also why you see Michiko and Masako in truly, truly awful suits from time to time)
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Oct 3, 2014 00:27
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Somehow or another I got this notion that a lot of the powerful nationalists' show of support for the Emperor is largely to provide legitimacy to their notion that society should be run by a hereditary aristocracy rather than democratically. Am I just undergoing onset delirium tremens, or is this a thing?
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Oct 3, 2014 01:44
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From what I've read it seemed like the Meiji Emperor had power in the same vein as Queen Victoria or Wilhelm I but didn't micromanage much. The Taisho Emperor seems to be when people really took control since he was mentally handicapped or disabled and they had to constantly watch him to make sure he didn't do anything embarrassing. Hirohito seemed to be incapable of interacting with anyone and spoke in a stilted keigo that native speakers of Japanese couldn't really understand. He apparently got better at interacting with people after he was no longer a living god but seemed pretty socially inept from the descriptions.
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Oct 3, 2014 01:50
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Genpei Turtle posted:Yeah I remember reading about it back when it happened. Basically she was the daughter of a prominent diplomat, moved to the US in her teens, went to Harvard and Tokyo University and was at the absolute top of her class in really competitive programs. She was on the fast track to becoming an important and influential diplomat, but then she caught the Crown Prince's eye and you don't say no to the Crown Prince. Except she did, several times, before finally giving in. My wife rages about it to this day, and is a perfect example of womens place in Japanese society. She also thinks that leverage against her father was the reason for her final surrender. E: That place being that even the best and brightest woman in the country is nothing more than a baby factory for an inbred retard. ocrumsprug fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Oct 3, 2014 |
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Oct 3, 2014 03:06
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ocrumsprug posted:E: That place being that even the best and brightest woman in the country is nothing more than a baby factory for an inbred retard. Pretty much. I couldn't give a source to quote just because this was purely my interaction with them but you get the very strong sense that the crown family is taken quite literally as symbols by Kunaicho and not, like, actual people. Part of that I think is chalked up to the fact that they are fully taxpayer-funded and very aware of the fact they can't do anything appearing remotely frivolous, but it is pretty disturbing to think about. As for the family themselves, I've also met Princess Takamado and she was nothing but wonderful (a pretty cool lady in her own right actually), so I think Kunaicho must have a particular issue with the main branch or something.
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Oct 3, 2014 05:57
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Pretty much. I couldn't give a source to quote just because this was purely my interaction with them but you get the very strong sense that the crown family is taken quite literally as symbols by Kunaicho and not, like, actual people. Part of that I think is chalked up to the fact that they are fully taxpayer-funded and very aware of the fact they can't do anything appearing remotely frivolous, but it is pretty disturbing to think about. As for the family themselves, I've also met Princess Takamado and she was nothing but wonderful (a pretty cool lady in her own right actually), so I think Kunaicho must have a particular issue with the main branch or something. Thanks for your insights. Are you able to say what kind of work it is you do that puts you into contact with the Kunai-cho and royals?
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Oct 3, 2014 07:45
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ozza posted:Thanks for your insights. Are you able to say what kind of work it is you do that puts you into contact with the Kunai-cho and royals? I'm an editor! I make important people's English
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Oct 3, 2014 11:28
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Did any of you ever read Gormenghast? Everything I've ever read or heard about the imperial family gives me that sort of vibe. It's really pretty sad.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:06
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I can't really say authoritatively what the situation was like prior to the Heian Period, but by the 11th century, the Emperor was at the mercy of his courtiers for the most part. Read up on Fujiwara no Michinaga if you want to see just how much power an influential courtier could have over an Emperor in those days. The Gempei War broke out because the Minamoto got sick of the Taira (Imperial cousins) monopolizing lucrative and prestigious appointments. When the Kamakura Bakufu seized de facto control of government, they ostensibly served at the Emperor's pleasure, but in reality, there was no way of ousting a sitting shogun without an army. Emperor Go-Toba was forced to abdicate by Yoritomo in his teens, but 20 some years later decided to stage a rebellion to try to reclaim throne and failed miserably. That pretty much set the tone until the Meiji Restoration, which established a constitutional monarchy in which the Emperor was head of state but not head of government. It might look like I'm glossing over a huge period, but there weren't any credible threats to the status quo vis a vis Imperial authority during that time.
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Oct 3, 2014 15:46
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Protocol 5 posted:I can't really say authoritatively what the situation was like prior to the Heian Period, but by the 11th century, the Emperor was at the mercy of his courtiers for the most part. Read up on Fujiwara no Michinaga if you want to see just how much power an influential courtier could have over an Emperor in those days. The Gempei War broke out because the Minamoto got sick of the Taira (Imperial cousins) monopolizing lucrative and prestigious appointments. Actually the period running up to the Genpei War is probably not a good example here, as it's one of the times that the Imperial house had a surprising amount of political power. It's one of those few notable examples I was talking about. At that time the Insei (the sort of private household and holdings of the retired Emperors) was really the ascendant power in the country, which started when there was (finally) an Emperor not of Fujiwara lineage who, not surprisingly, broke away from their chokehold on power. The Taira were actually relative newcomers to court, and if you look at who had the big appointments at the time the Taira actually didn't have a monopoly--a plurality at best, with Minamoto (not Seiwa Genji, Murakami Genji for the most part IIRC) and Fujiwara appointments actually taking up the majority. Of course the virtual dictator at the time, Kiyomori, was a Taira, but in a lot of ways the war was sparked by him overstepping his bounds and taking direct action against the Imperial House. Military takeover of the country was probably inevitable--the (largely court-sparked) increase in power of the militarily-controlled provinces where all the economic output of the country came from kind of guaranteed that. But had that not happened, there was a really good chance that the Imperial house would have reclaimed power, as they were gobbling up previously Fujiwara-controlled lands right and left at the time.
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Oct 3, 2014 16:23
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Opinion is divided on that, obviously, and I doubt either of us is interested in arguing the point in depth in a thread about current Japanese politics on a comedy website, so I'll leave it at that. I also missed out the Kemmu Restoration in my overview, since I ascribe to the school of thought that it was pretty much an Ashikaga power play from the moment they turned, but again, opinion is divided, and it only lasted 3 years anyhow. To be fair to Go-Daigo, he did actually get de facto power for awhile, but Takauji was moving on him from day one, more or less.
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Oct 3, 2014 17:11
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Ahaha. Ahahaha. Ahem. This is the same Kunaicho that drat near put a gun to my head for daring to suggest they might have gotten mixed up on which head of state exactly the Emperor visited in the 90s (it was Bill Clinton, but they had a picture of the current Emperor and Empress visiting the Reagans in the White House and I dared point out the actual occasion Nancy Reagan was wearing the dress for). Anything that makes them look remotely bad gets you an instant knee-jerk reaction and excommunicated. I guarantee Kunaicho will never release those primary sources unless they're stolen by freaking Lupin III.  Tell us more. What were you doing research for? I never knew you'd met folks from the IHA. I'm so insanely curious. Writing my thesis right now on pre and postwar education policy and, surprise loving surprise, Meiji and Hirohito figure in pretty prominently. Edit: Got a little overexcited and didn't read the rest of the thread  I'm insanely jelly of your job. The chance to have all that access and do all the fact gathering is making me salivate. Shinobo fucked around with this message at 08:21 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 08:14
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Shinobo posted:I'm insanely jelly of your job. The chance to have all that access and do all the fact gathering is making me salivate. You want it? Heheh. If that's your thing and you can deal with working twelve hours a day, go for it. Most of the juicy confidential stuff I work with isn't in government stuff so much as business but I still do work with Kantei almost every day.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:53
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When discussing collective self-defense in March, I posted:mystes posted:it seems like if these rules were in effect in 2003, the Japanese government could have probably joined the invasion of Iraq It is very likely this is the reason that Abe's cabinet resolution changed the restriction against the SDF going to "戦闘地域" (combat zones) into one against "戦闘現場" which they then define specifically as "現に戦闘行為を行っている現場" (sites where combat is presently occurring). There's still debate about the "gray zones" and "駆け付け警護" (coming to the aid of humanitarian groups or troops under attack) so it's not quite to the point where the SDF would be able to pull out guns and start jumping into an attack just because a bullet was fired, though. mystes fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 00:50
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mystes posted:When discussing collective self-defense in March, I posted: You didn't realize that? It was all over the news and is a notable subject every time A9 comes up. But yeah for all they were in Iraq, they were very much kept out of harms' way, with Australian forces basically serving as babysitters for them.
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Oct 7, 2014 01:46
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I knew that they had been in Iraq but I guess I wasn't paying attention and thought they had only actually done actual reconstruction aid work. My Japanese also sucked in 2008 and I wasn't really following the news at that point. Even though participating in the reconstruction (or perhaps even allowing the US military to function out of Japan) is arguably also borderline, I feel like actually carrying in US troops is into the territory where the SDF is effectively participating in the actual fighting. I don't know how this actually affects my opinion of collective self-defense and Article 9, though. If Japan really wants to refrain from war it probably has to go a lot further back in the other direction, and otherwise maybe people should just accept that they've already abandoned Article 9 and drop the pretense. There's a point where "active pacifism" starts to sound like another word for American imperialism. mystes fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 03:32
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Robots caretakers, it's happening, thanks Japan!
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Oct 8, 2014 08:22
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Femur posted:Robots caretakers, it's happening, thanks Japan!
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Oct 8, 2014 08:27
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They want this one to only be a talking pet for old people, so they might figure this one out! What price point can an android even be priced? This is such a wasteful fetish.
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Oct 8, 2014 08:41
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I'm glad to be living in a Japan where robots can shine.
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Oct 8, 2014 10:22
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Just wait til someone perfects lifelike fuckable robots. It'll be pandemonium, I assure you.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:01
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Protocol 5 posted:Just wait til someone perfects lifelike fuckable robots. There's no demand. Japan has a huge and diverse sexual services industry.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:26
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I don't know if it's funnier that you think I don't know about the sex industry or that you honestly believe there aren't any dudes who would rather gently caress a totally compliant sexbot than a human.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:38
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Protocol 5 posted:Just wait til someone perfects lifelike fuckable robots. It'll be pandemonium, I assure you. Depending on your definitions of "lifelike" and "robot" this already exists.
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Oct 8, 2014 11:44
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And with oculus rift to handle visuals and sound all they gotta worry about is tactile and motion. It's a brave new world we're living in I tell ya.
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Oct 8, 2014 12:08
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