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See libtards, drop the wonderland angle and accept the full embrace of a rampaging unstoppable half naked mob of plagued riddled untouchables blowing up the east wing of your compound, invading your inner sanctum, and seizing your family, making them air tight in front of you. We'll trade our society in exchange for your sobriety and innocence. President Kucinich fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Oct 4, 2014 |
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Oct 4, 2014 04:58
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We at the Jewish Nazi SS DRO are gonna have sharp uniforms, so I recommend that.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:05
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I'd personally join the Beautiful Buff Men Brigade DRO as an insurance adjuster and spend my days roaming the country side, putting people's property in figure 4 leglocks while my companions tombstone the emaciated farmers populating the country side while wooing all the pretty ladies with our muscles. The application process is a test on contract law and the word "application" written on a cinderblock. If you can rip it in half you're in. You get a badge, a copy of Roberts Rules of Order, one bottle of body oil, and a onesie or thong in your choice of color.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:19
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I really hope that authors or game or movie writers have been following this thread for inspiration because holy poo poo is there potential for some awesome DRO-land dystopian sci fi
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Oct 4, 2014 05:50
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paragon1 posted:One of the things I really like Valhalla DRO for is the knowledge that, should I die in glorious conquest, they'll take care of the children I've left behind. They'll be provided the very best in education, drugs, and weapons training for the day they take my place! All while being hosted in a modern facility with similar children who they will understand and bond with! Don't forget Valhalla DRO is an equal opportunity employer, and does not discriminate based on race, orientation or creed when deciding who to murder-pillage in its next drug fueled orgy of violence.
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Oct 4, 2014 05:54
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Ehh I'll stick with Lord Humongous and his group. I'm already a biker and I have a good, sturdy leather jacket, so I've got an easy in and the rest of the guys will probably have some instant respect for me. Plus I know a lot about how to knit and sew so I can help everyone add more spikes and random bits of metal, cloth, rhinestones, whatever to their armor-clothes. Never used a hand crossbow before but I'm sure one of the be-mohawked thugs can teach me how to be proficient, that or I can teach them how to use firearms. Either or.
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Oct 4, 2014 06:08
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So if fiat currency makes war easier and more profitable, what happens if all of mankind abandons fiat currency and uses RonPaul Funbux, but then aliens that use fiat currency make contact with Earth and see that we are ripe for conquest? What if the Turian Empire doesn't give us the time to explain the non-agression principle and praxeology to them before they blast away our orbital defenses with their cannons, calibrated to perfection that fire currency whose value is not tied to Palladium, and land ground troops, high on the combat drug known as income tax, all over the world? Do we not have a responsibility to ourselves and future generations to keep our planet as ready as possible for Turian invasion?
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Oct 4, 2014 07:27
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DrProsek posted:So if fiat currency makes war easier and more profitable, what happens if all of mankind abandons fiat currency and uses RonPaul Funbux, but then aliens that use fiat currency make contact with Earth and see that we are ripe for conquest? What if the Turian Empire doesn't give us the time to explain the non-agression principle and praxeology to them before they blast away our orbital defenses with their cannons, calibrated to perfection that fire currency whose value is not tied to Palladium, and land ground troops, high on the combat drug known as income tax, all over the world? Do we not have a responsibility to ourselves and future generations to keep our planet as ready as possible for Turian invasion? No, because the minute aliens or robots invade I am turning traitor and selling out you chumps for sweet sweet alien fiat space money or maybe just not-painful-death.
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Oct 4, 2014 07:33
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Rhjamiz posted:No, because the minute aliens or robots invade I am turning traitor and selling out you chumps for sweet sweet alien fiat space money or maybe just not-painful-death. I do love how a couple of days after Jrod leaves a thread it descends into libertarian fanfiction. I'm not complaining, it just happens every time and is always hilarious.
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Oct 4, 2014 07:49
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Caros posted:I do love how a couple of days after Jrod leaves a thread it descends into libertarian fanfiction. I'm not complaining, it just happens every time and is always hilarious. What do you mean descends into?
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Oct 4, 2014 07:51
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RuanGacho posted:What do you mean descends into? Well, more overtly anyways.
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Oct 4, 2014 07:59
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It still boggles my mind how people assume regulations are the source of all evils, like the current levels of oversight just sprung into existence alongside their related industries instead of being created as responses to all the well-documented abuses that occurred in their absence. We tried the unfettered free market thing already and it was loving horrific and the backlash against it is how we got where we are now. It's even more bizarre coming from someone like Jrod who quotes (I won't say 'cites') history constantly while not knowing about the loving Triangle Fire.
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Oct 4, 2014 08:10
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Rhjamiz posted:No, because the minute aliens or robots invade I am turning traitor and selling out you chumps for sweet sweet alien fiat space money or maybe just not-painful-death. Oh of course, it goes without saying that in either case I'm with the aliens, but if you're one of those Earthican losers, you should be putting up as good a fight as possible so my betrayal is as valuable as possible to the new Xeno Order. If Libertopia folds too quickly, I might not get to pick the color LED my thought filtering chip has  .
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Oct 4, 2014 08:18
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Voyager I posted:It still boggles my mind how people assume regulations are the source of all evils, like the current levels of oversight just sprung into existence alongside their related industries instead of being created as responses to all the well-documented abuses that occurred in their absence. We tried the unfettered free market thing already and it was loving horrific and the backlash against it is how we got where we are now. No no no, you've got it all wrong my friend. He doesn't disagree that the abuses occurred. Sure a bunch of people burned to death in an easily preventable accident, but that caused workers to rally together and demand that there be change in their industry. Sensing that the public outrage would soon force businesses to stop chaining the doors closed the government swooped in at the last moment and instituted regulations so that they could claim the credit... like some kind of glory hog superhero. Post Hoc Ergo Proctor Hoc, the government doesn't every actually do anything, they are just really good at sensing which way the wind is blowing and getting out in front of it to constantly look like they are having an effect. That aside: JRrodefeld! I know you are a busy guy and don't have hours and hours to contributed to the thread. I also know you get annoyed when you get dogpiled on because you are one of the few libertarians in the thread. Thus I propose that you join me in an Oxford-Style debate broadcast over some sort of internet streaming service at a time of your convenience. You get to have a platform where no one is interrupting you or calling you names, and I haven't gotten to flex my debating muscles verbally since I did some coaching work in 2007, so I'm pretty much just itching for an excuse. Most of the specifics are pretty much up in the air. I suggest an Oxford style because I'm less familiar with it and it is generally more entertaining to watch than Parliamentary debate. I'll leave the choice of moderator entirely up to you, either a goon or one of your fellow libertarians is fine for me so long as you assure impartiality. If we decide to go Oxford we can solicit questions from the viewers or just have a pre-selected stack. Feel free to say no for any number of reasons. Not trying to shame you into it, just an idea that popped into my head because I have way too much free time now that my wife is going to school and I only have to work twenty hours a day.
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Oct 4, 2014 08:39
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Caros posted:I only have to work twenty hours a day.  You are the freest man on these forums. Where do you live where you have broken the shackles of an eight hour workday?
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Oct 4, 2014 09:03
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Libertopia. Duh.
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Oct 4, 2014 09:07
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Question: In Libertopia, who gets the Uranium and Plutonium?
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Oct 4, 2014 09:08
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Before or after the impact?
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Oct 4, 2014 09:10
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Take your pick.
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Oct 4, 2014 09:19
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Whoever mixes their labor with it first, of course. So...mutants, probably.
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Oct 4, 2014 13:47
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Is there a primer on Oxford-style debate on mises.org? No? Then ask yourself why he would know how to do it, or how he could ever possibly learn
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Oct 4, 2014 15:53
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DrProsek posted:
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn. Duh. Alternately: Sorry I mixed up my libertopia hours with my real world hours.
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Oct 4, 2014 17:51
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Libertarians and Anarcho Capitalists, how do you imagine your society coming into being? It seems clear that the evil central bankers and dictators don't want your society, and will do what they can to crush it or stop it from happening, so I wonder if you acknowledge that you could only accomplish your goals with a revolution. In that case, I'd like to know who the base of support is... will you get the working and middle classes on board, or just rich people? And how will you convince the hundreds of millions of moochers and takers to join your cause?
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Oct 4, 2014 18:33
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Bob le Moche posted:I really hope that authors or game or movie writers have been following this thread for inspiration because holy poo poo is there potential for some awesome DRO-land dystopian sci fi Allowing corporations to compete for a monopoly on violence is a pretty common sci-fi trope (which makes AnCap support for the idea all the more hilarious). But it would be fun to see a talented author try to go full Rothbard with his dystopian setting just to see where it takes him.
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Oct 4, 2014 18:39
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Typical Pubbie posted:Allowing corporations to compete for a monopoly on violence is a pretty common sci-fi trope (which makes AnCap support for the idea all the more hilarious). But it would be fun to see a talented author try to go full Rothbard with his dystopian setting just to see where it takes him. He'd get sued by Catalyst Game Labs- Shadowrun is already a published, copyright protected dystopian setting. I'd say "all joking aside" but really I can't, because.. That's kinda the world libertarians want to populate and inhabit. A world where corporate powers are effectively absolute and hold all the real power. The only real difference is that in the libertarian fantasy land it's all still humans and no magical stuff (with the exception of all corporate powers for some bizarre reason being 'rational actors' who are always moral and ethical and never abusive or destructive or anything else because noble captains of industry blah blah blah heard it all before). OwlBot 2000 posted:Libertarians and Anarcho Capitalists, how do you imagine your society coming into being? It seems clear that the evil central bankers and dictators don't want your society, and will do what they can to crush it or stop it from happening, so I wonder if you acknowledge that you could only accomplish your goals with a revolution. In that case, I'd like to know who the base of support is... will you get the working and middle classes on board, or just rich people? And how will you convince the hundreds of millions of moochers and takers to join your cause? The answer to this is simple- post-apocalyptia logic. No, seriously. The train of thought they all rely upon that would somehow get the vast majority of the unwashed masses behind them follows almost precisely same bread crumb trail that you can see in a significant amount of post-apocalypse-type fiction. Some manner of massive upheaval that would be on par with the world itself as it is coming to an end is what would be required to shake all the foundations loose so that new powers could rise to fill the vacuum. There is literally no other way for them to achieve this sudden complete restructuring of the entire planet's economic, social, and political status quos- not that you're likely to get them to acknowledge this.
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Oct 4, 2014 18:52
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Why do they think Libertarianism would fill the vacuum, instead of militant socialism or some other force? I guess warlordism in destabilized African countries is close enough, and they all love Somalia.
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Oct 4, 2014 19:41
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Why do they think Libertarianism would fill the vacuum, instead of militant socialism or some other force? I guess warlordism in destabilized African countries is close enough, and they all love Somalia. people who fixate on post-apocalyptica always assume that they'll be the ones to come through the fire as warlord-entrepreneurs, not carrion or someone's slave
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Oct 4, 2014 19:51
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Why do they think Libertarianism would fill the vacuum, instead of militant socialism or some other force? Yeah, radical individualism doesn't really sound fun for people who really are in danger of dying of starvation, disease, predation, or banditry. Pretty much any philosophy that promises a group of homies that have your back is gonna do better than psychotic Randian individualism.
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Oct 4, 2014 20:13
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What happens in Libertarianville if the DROs decide my home is just too expensive to defend? Like if there are Super Mutants constantly raiding the area, and the Brotherhood of Steele DRO just decides that there's no way in hell my farm is worth defending against Super Mutant raids, what happens then? In a statist world, a state that just refuses to respond to any crimes in an area is considered to be failing in its obligations and is an embarrassment at the least, a party-killing scandal at the worst. A company that stops taking clients that live in a high risk area is considered to be practicing smart business strategy. Why would I deal with the burden of looking around for a DRO suicidal enough to fight Super Mutants, but cheap enough that my farm that has been suffering from raids can afford to pay for them, when I could just become a citizen of Caesar's Legion and pledge fidelity to Caesar and have the Legion defend my farm as part of the Legion's state?
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Oct 4, 2014 21:08
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Reasonably speaking? I expect you wouldn't get the chance to join Caesar's Legion. Chances are good that if your home isn't being defended by an immediate threat then well you're pretty well hosed, son, and once you and your inheritors are dead the BOS DRO simply waits out the super mutants, or buys them out, and then claims your land for themselves. Or presuming you have time before the attack you can sell your land to the BOS DRO which will obviously try to pay out as little as they can for it and then you move to another DRO's territory where hopefully you can somehow procure more land (even though you have fuckall for assets because you had to sell your land cheap because of the immediate danger and thus low property value and even if you sold all your belongings there's a rat's chance in a room full of cats that small belongings could begin to compare to land value for liquid assets) and hopefully have a new DRO that will honor their contract(s) with you in the event of more attacks. Presuming of course the DROs aren't in league with the super mutants to begin with, paying them to attack you so they can drive your property values down so they can get your land cheap cheap cheap. Because that kind of thing has never ever happened before in a completely unregulated stateless society *coughcoughyesithascoughcough*
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Oct 4, 2014 21:26
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My only real issue with Valhalla DRO is their insistence on a full human head to collect bounties. It just seems so inefficient!
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Oct 4, 2014 21:32
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Well if you get the whole head you get a lot of options for positive ID. Dental records, blood samples, facial recognition via pictures, poo poo like that. Basically you bring in the whole head in decent condition nobody can argue that you didn't get the right guy. Plus after you're done ID'ing it the heads can be put into storage for later use in catapults, where they will be launched over town walls into the wailing masses of victims and defenders, causing severe demoralization. So it is in fact, very efficient!
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Oct 4, 2014 21:54
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DrProsek posted:What happens in Libertarianville if the DROs decide my home is just too expensive to defend?
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Oct 4, 2014 22:06
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Babylon Astronaut posted:This is actually answered a bunch in libertarian writings because it is the obvious question. The answer I've heard is that you could qualify for premium deductions like owning a gun, or fencing your yard, or buying a guard dog. This is apparently the way high-crime areas will get police protection. The other answer is the "argumentam ad equilibrium": if an area is such a dangerous place to live, why should anyone live there? (And if you do anyway, you're dumb and go gently caress yourself.) More immediately, this argument commonly appears in libertarian rags with regard to places subject to natural disaster, like New Orleans after Katrina or (just guessing) San Francisco after the next big one.
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Oct 4, 2014 22:39
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OwlBot 2000 posted:Libertarians and Anarcho Capitalists, how do you imagine your society coming into being? It seems clear that the evil central bankers and dictators don't want your society, and will do what they can to crush it or stop it from happening, so I wonder if you acknowledge that you could only accomplish your goals with a revolution. In that case, I'd like to know who the base of support is... will you get the working and middle classes on board, or just rich people? And how will you convince the hundreds of millions of moochers and takers to join your cause? Heh his answer to this is literally identical to how you would answer it. His ideology is actually better for everyone except a small minority of elites. They don't know it because the elites are in control of media/education. If only they knew the truth they'd be convinced.
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Oct 4, 2014 23:50
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Reverend Catharsis posted:Well if you get the whole head you get a lot of options for positive ID. Dental records, blood samples, facial recognition via pictures, poo poo like that. Basically you bring in the whole head in decent condition nobody can argue that you didn't get the right guy. Plus after you're done ID'ing it the heads can be put into storage for later use in catapults, where they will be launched over town walls into the wailing masses of victims and defenders, causing severe demoralization. You can only say that because you've never had to collect on a bunch of skinheads from Pure White Nation DRO. 
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Oct 5, 2014 01:21
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asdf32 posted:Heh his answer to this is literally identical to how you would answer it. I don't think RC is a capitalist so I don't see how the answers would be identical. Or a social democrat? I guess the arguments would be similar for both, but you don't need revolutions for either. I am going to guess you are talking about socialism, but Libertarians tend to focus on the "freedom" their ideology brings, while Socialism focuses more on economic balance (that may be the word). Obviously those two arguments are going to appeal to wildly different groups. CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 01:56 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 01:54
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CharlestheHammer posted:I don't think RC is a capitalist so I don't see how the answers would be identical. They both appeal to middle class first worlders. And beyond that they both think their ideologies would benefit everyone, so long as everyone properly understood them. Libertarians don't think they're advocating an ideology for the elite they think they're tearing down the elite just like socialists. Socialism does have an major advantage in that it calls for a government. This shouldn't be downplayed and it means it's actually possible to implement in real life. But beyond that, parallels abound between the two ideological extremes.
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Oct 5, 2014 02:34
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Socialism: an idea that has always only had the support of middle class Americans
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Oct 5, 2014 04:32
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VitalSigns posted:Socialism: an idea that has always only had the support of middle class Americans Heck, socialism has almost never been popular with middle-class Americans. Time was when 'socialist' was practically synonymous with 'labor-unionist'.
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Oct 5, 2014 06:19
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