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gorki posted:Did any of you expect the Tories to be so breathtakingly evil in government? Have the last 4 years come as a surprise to any of you? Honest questions here I was mostly naively expecting the lib dems to grow a spine at some point and issue a vote of no confidence. It has been dismaying how the rhetoric of austerity has sunk in amongst all parties. I also hoped that the conservative critique of labour on mass surveillance and civil liberties would amount to something. But, haha, nope. Fangz fucked around with this message at 01:29 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 01:23
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Spangly A posted:really? It's Rochester. Of course they were Tory, of course they'll swing ukip. gorki posted:Did any of you expect the Tories to be so breathtakingly evil in government? Have the last 4 years come as a surprise to any of you? Honest questions here
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Oct 5, 2014 01:55
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Pasco posted:Rochester was expected to be a much more tightly run race, and while this isn't a Clacton-style blowout, that UKIP margin is surprisigly hefty. A single poll done for the Mail the day after the MP defects and Farage arrives to give a grand oratory to the masses? I'm surprised it didn't hit 50.
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Oct 5, 2014 03:01
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gorki posted:Did any of you expect the Tories to be so breathtakingly evil in government? Have the last 4 years come as a surprise to any of you? Honest questions here They seemed pretty tame for a while but they've really ramped up in this last year. In the end they've become exactly what I thought they were. Also: "- Ban sexual harassment claims unless the alleged offence is illegal and has been reported to the police (34)". That particular one fills me with such creeping dread. I think it's because it's so obviously self serving. The only reason you'd support such a lovely thing is if you or someone you know regularly partakes in such behaviour. And they're so brazen about it. Then again this is the party that is brazen about scrapping human rights. Regarde Aduck fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 09:04
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Jeez, Clarkson's account of his comeuppance in Argentina has the air of pre-ww2 Nazi propaganda in territories they wanted to conquer. "Sure we deliberately provoked them but then they were really mean to us! The Argentine government probably orchestrated the whole attack out of pure evil and hatred of plucky Brits!" Is he so afraid of a Labour victory he is going all out to engineer a Falklands moment for his friend Cameron? (No he's just a massive egotist and bully blaming others for getting himself in danger). If so he'd do well to remember Francis Maude's attempt to recreate the Miners strike.
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Oct 5, 2014 09:11
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I like how the plate was obviously on purpose but they can't admit to it ever because he's on his last warning. Well supposedly. Whether the BBC really would get rid of him is another question. Also by like I mean "vaguely disgusted".
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Oct 5, 2014 09:21
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Regarde Aduck posted:I like how the plate was obviously on purpose but they can't admit to it ever because he's on his last warning. Well supposedly. Whether the BBC really would get rid of him is another question. The plate thing sounds like a weakshit justification made up after the fact because international relations haven't reached the point where Argentine government officials can stand up at a press conference and say 'hey real talk who would pass up the chance to throw a rock at Jeremy Clarkson'
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Oct 5, 2014 09:27
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Extreme0 posted:Hold up, I've been looking at Audit Scotland's long list of sections on their site and twitter feed to check for the reports that are based or at least mention the likes of the claims that David has said. I can't seem to find any of the sort. Links or even the mention of what the reports are from Audit/Goverment to back up the Policy of Local Goverment, would of been helpful. This isn't the sort of thing which is always linked online. You'd probably need to file a FOI request. If you think the head of COSLA is lying about the policy of the Scottish Government in an official statement to make political bank, it would be worth doing.
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Oct 5, 2014 10:04
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Crane Fist posted:The plate thing sounds like a weakshit justification made up after the fact because international relations haven't reached the point where Argentine government officials can stand up at a press conference and say 'hey real talk who would pass up the chance to throw a rock at Jeremy Clarkson' (Which idiot thought a Top Gear drive through Argentina would be a good idea?)
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Oct 5, 2014 11:15
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Kegluneq posted:Apparently that Porsche has had that licence plate since 1991, so unless they specifically scoured second hand car salesrooms for provocative details, I think that excuse might actually be legit. It's a loving brilliant idea, look at all the publicity it has gotten them.
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Oct 5, 2014 11:25
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Kegluneq posted:(Which idiot thought a Top Gear drive through Argentina would be a good idea?)    Meanwhile the Lib Dems are writing their own punchlines. 
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Oct 5, 2014 11:39
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:Meanwhile the Lib Dems are writing their own punchlines. 
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Oct 5, 2014 11:43
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Rubbish punctuation as well. What are Lib Dems good at? 
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Oct 5, 2014 11:49
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad posted:Yeah who'd want to see poo poo like this on their TV when it's so easy to just go visit like everyone else I actually have defended Top Gear in the past for their travelogue episodes, it's a real strength of the production format and they're normally pretty good at it. But come on, this was pretty much inevitable even if the actual tipping point was accidental. Clarkson was always going to be a dick in Argentina (well, more so than usually). willie_dee posted:It's a loving brilliant idea, look at all the publicity it has gotten them. I'm assuming they'd have to ditch that feature, although they did apparently end up leaving only a few days early. Does Top Gear really need more publicity?
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Oct 5, 2014 11:54
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Let's face it, even if the numberplate thing was an insane coincidence, there's no way they wouldn't have put in a bunch of awful Falklands stuff at some point. gently caress it, they can barely mention Germany without crowing about WW2 like they personally stormed the beaches. e: beaten
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Oct 5, 2014 12:08
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The New Black posted:Let's face it, even if the numberplate thing was an insane coincidence, there's no way they wouldn't have put in a bunch of awful Falklands stuff at some point. gently caress it, they can barely mention Germany without crowing about WW2 like they personally stormed the beaches. And even if he was on his best behavior it's not like they'd be short of inflammatory things the Clarkson has said about Argentina. All it would take is one person collating quotes from his godawful Sun spot to work up a lynch mob, easily.
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Oct 5, 2014 12:10
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It would be good if someone took topgear and just removed the presenters, the episodes would be that bit shorter, but some nice cars driving through nice scenery and seeing which car is faster is a nice idea and I wouldn't want to murder people quite as much after watching it. Nice. I used to somewhat defend clarkson as someone simply playing to a particular audience but its pretty obvious the inspiration is drawn from his own nasty personality, and even if it wasn't, it's not an excuse for the behaviour. There's better car shows on youtube now anyway, watch, as some people stuff the innards of a GT4 inside an old mini- the badly acted, awkward scripted parts are already done better than topgear and without the casual racism DesperateDan fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 12:34
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DesperateDan posted:There's better car shows on youtube now anyway, watch, as some people stuff the innards of a GT4 inside an old mini- the badly acted, awkward scripted parts are already done better than topgear and without the casual racism I don't care about cars and can't build anything with my hands but this owns. namesake fucked around with this message at 12:57 on Oct 5, 2014 |
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Oct 5, 2014 12:54
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The numberplate is a bit specific to have been a coincidence I feel. I will hold my hands up and say I didn't expect the level of some of the crap the Tories have pulled. To be fair, I missed out on the worst of them last time round - Thatcher being challenged for the leadership is my oldest political memory - so even though I'd heard about it and was fully Tory-hating, it seemed a long time ago when you mostly just remember the early 90s scandals. It's why I finally joined the Labour party to be honest, because I felt that was the best way of sticking it to the Tories. A position I'm now a bit uncomfortable with  .
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Oct 5, 2014 14:08
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Kegluneq posted:I actually have defended Top Gear in the past for their travelogue episodes, it's a real strength of the production format and they're normally pretty good at it. It may have been inevitable, but what was also inevitable was that the Argentinians would find something to be offended by because that's their government's go to tactic. The economy struggling, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, Kirchner's popularity waning, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, national football team lose, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, BBC Car Pricks filming, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”. The claims about the other number plates are absurd.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:12
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HortonNash posted:It may have been inevitable, but what was also inevitable was that the Argentinians would find something to be offended by because that's their government's go to tactic. The economy struggling, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, Kirchner's popularity waning, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, national football team lose, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”, BBC Car Pricks filming, “Las Malvinas son Argentinas”. I want to be absolutely clear Horton's not joking about the football team thing, the Argentinian government really have whipped it into a well-trained reflex. Same as Gibraltar with Spain. There was no way this wasn't going to end violently and I have no idea what the bbc were thinking. The numberplate thing is justification; Top Gear would happily admit to it, they've done far more provocative and the plates definitely weren't changed.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:14
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Acaila posted:I will hold my hands up and say I didn't expect the level of some of the crap the Tories have pulled. To be fair, I missed out on the worst of them last time round - Thatcher being challenged for the leadership is my oldest political memory - so even though I'd heard about it and was fully Tory-hating, it seemed a long time ago when you mostly just remember the early 90s scandals. It's why I finally joined the Labour party to be honest, because I felt that was the best way of sticking it to the Tories. A position I'm now a bit uncomfortable with The eighties were so unbelievably lovely. The "scandals" that hit the NHS these days pale in comparison to the poo poo that was happening in the eighties. People were dying on trollies in corridors having been left for days without proper care, years long waiting lists for operations. Closing the psychiatric and geriatric hospitals, the strain of which is still being felt. If Major had won in 1997, there would be no NHS now, the scale of the funding that the 1997 Labour government poured into the NHS (and education for that matter) just to fix the rot that the Tories had caused was staggering, and there is no way that the Tories would have done that. With the cover of the current economy, the damage that a Tory majority government can wreak on public services should frighten anyone who relies on them. They'll slash funding and still siphon money to their mates and themselves.
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Oct 5, 2014 14:25
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HortonNash posted:The eighties were so unbelievably lovely. The "scandals" that hit the NHS these days pale in comparison to the poo poo that was happening in the eighties. People were dying on trollies in corridors having been left for days without proper care, years long waiting lists for operations. Closing the psychiatric and geriatric hospitals, the strain of which is still being felt. If Major had won in 1997, there would be no NHS now, the scale of the funding that the 1997 Labour government poured into the NHS (and education for that matter) just to fix the rot that the Tories had caused was staggering, and there is no way that the Tories would have done that. I know it was super lovely - I'm from a mining family after all - but I didn't think there would be such an obvious lurch, more something along the lines of "like Blair's bad ideas but worse". Like I say, it's different when you're hearing something as history (which, if it's before I was born, it effectively is to me) compared to actually living it. Maybe that sort of feeling is how the Tories managed to creep back into some areas after nearly a generation, though luckily I, as with most Scots it would fortunately seem, always knew they were evil, I just didn't really comprehend quite how much
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Oct 5, 2014 14:52
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Eh, they admit to some things when they know they'll get away with it but they still pretend they weren't being racist with that whole "there's a slope on our bridge" bullshit. At the very least Top Gear should've done the their due diligence and not bought a car with a numberplate that could so easily incite people. More to the point they shouldn't have sent assholes whose shtick is pissing off foreigners to a country we have poor relations with.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:15
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Eh, they admit to some things when they know they'll get away with it but they still pretend they weren't being racist with that whole "there's a slope on our bridge" bullshit. At the very least Top Gear should've done the their due diligence and not bought a car with a numberplate that could so easily incite people. More to the point they shouldn't have sent assholes whose shtick is pissing off foreigners to a country we have poor relations with. I'm not really very sympathetic to the Argentine governments views on the matter so I think pissing them off constantly is hilarious, however I agree that we should probably not let a bunch of civilians run around doing it when we could just have Welsh Pride days on the falklands or something.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:23
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The New Black posted:Let's face it, even if the numberplate thing was an insane coincidence, there's no way they wouldn't have put in a bunch of awful Falklands stuff at some point. gently caress it, they can barely mention Germany without crowing about WW2 like they personally stormed the beaches.
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Oct 5, 2014 15:44
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Top Gear generally make the countries they visit look pretty nice. The Argentinians throwing stones and the like are a bit too keen to get upset about something that would likely have given them a slight tourism boost and decent TV exposure at no cost at all.
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Oct 5, 2014 16:17
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HortonNash posted:If Major had won in 1997, there would be no NHS now, What was Major's government like? It's a bit before my political memory, but whenever I see the occasional interview with him these days, he seems to be a refreshing change from a soundbite politician - talking in a calm, measured way from a relatively thoughtful and moderate viewpoint. Was he in fact Thatcher-lite?
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Oct 5, 2014 16:20
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The whole 'do something offensive to add drama and threat to a drive across a picturesque landscape' is a pretty consistent Top Gear schtick. I would imagine the whole idea for the Argentina tour came about because the producer saw that car being advertised. The license plate thing is very mild by their standards - previous things they did included IIRC wrapping themselves in giant US flags as they went through Vietnam, painting themselves with 'don't take drugs' in a route their Colombia, having gay pride symbols in a tour through the US Midwest. It is sorta funny that they've only really met with violence over this current thing - usually the locals just look bemused. The places they visit tend to come out pretty positively. It is very juvenile, but I have to admit, I enjoy their stuff in small doses.
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Oct 5, 2014 16:36
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They were attacked in the US over "NASCAR sucks" painted on a car but no one batted an eyelid because, well, America.
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Oct 5, 2014 16:37
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Prince John posted:What was Major's government like? It's a bit before my political memory, but whenever I see the occasional interview with him these days, he seems to be a refreshing change from a soundbite politician - talking in a calm, measured way from a relatively thoughtful and moderate viewpoint. Was he in fact Thatcher-lite?   He had other business on his mind
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Oct 5, 2014 16:38
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Coohoolin posted:They were attacked in the US over "NASCAR sucks" painted on a car but no one batted an eyelid because, well, America. Y'all gay tryna get beat up in a hick town? get the boys.
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Oct 5, 2014 16:46
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I watched the 1992 live election coverage a couple of years ago when BBC Parliament were doing one of their bank holiday "show an old election as live over the course of a day". In the studio, once it looked like a Tory victory, they had a gaggle of 90s Tories, all male I think except Virginia Bottomley, arguing that it was perfectly fine to have an all male cabinet. (Also Nicola Sturgeon in her first election I think looking ridiculously young).
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Oct 5, 2014 16:57
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For the person who was asking for good news yesterday: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/war-on-drugs-failed-decriminalise-illegal-usequote:Huge majority thinks 'war on drugs' has failed, new poll finds It is really cool to see such a large majority of the population rejecting the war on drugs. Hopefully this will lead to better policies on narcotics than burying official reports that aim to help vulnerable people or firing Government advisers for stating research Middle England doesn't like. Personally I support harm reduction rather than total decriminalisation for some drugs (Tescos selling Heroin as a loss leader doesn't appeal) but the most important thing is to treat it as a public health rather than a criminal issue.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:05
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ReV VAdAUL posted:For the person who was asking for good news yesterday: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/oct/05/war-on-drugs-failed-decriminalise-illegal-use decrim isn't legalisation, nobody supports allowing drugs to be privately sold except libertarians. Dealers still go to prison, importers still go to prison, but possession doesn't disenfranchise anymore. I am hype about this, and find it hilarious the lib dems are now "considering" it when it was already one of their more popular manifesto pledges last time.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:07
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Acaila posted:
She must have been in her very early twenties then surely? That's an incredibly young age to stand for parliament.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:08
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Spangly A posted:decrim isn't legalisation, nobody supports allowing drugs to be privately sold except libertarians. Dealers still go to prison, importers still go to prison, but possession doesn't disenfranchise anymore. Ah well in that case I'd be in favour of some legalisation then but harm reduction for other stuff. As The Corner puts it so well, crack addicts are the hardest working people in America, if drug addicts could have a steady and clean supply of hard drugs they'd be in a much better position to devote their energies to getting clean and improving their lives. Portugal showed how successful this can be. Other drugs though I would support legalisation for. I'd rather people were taking drugs that are known quantities than whatever new legal high they're going after this week that has unknown side effects. People aren't going to try and stop getting high so the focus has to be on making it as safe as possible.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:15
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ReV VAdAUL posted:Ah well in that case I'd be in favour of some legalisation then but harm reduction for other stuff. As The Corner puts it so well, crack addicts are the hardest working people in America, if drug addicts could have a steady and clean supply of hard drugs they'd be in a much better position to devote their energies to getting clean and improving their lives. Portugal showed how successful this can be. I'm not sure on how far to go on legalisation, personally. Cannabis is an obvious one with very few drawbacks, but pretty much everything above class C has issues that I'd rather the NHS didn't have to face. An outright ban on all marketing and packaging I'd consider absolutely necessary, because if we socialise acceptable and marketed use of Ketamine, PCP or Speed, we're going to start seeing drawbacks that we shouldn't need to deal with (looking at Switzerlands recovery rates).
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Oct 5, 2014 17:20
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If you nationalise the entire process (at least initally), what you have is a nice little money-maker that more than offsets the additional NHS burdens. Ban marketing etc., limit it to state-run outlets so all profit remains socialised. Not sure where to draw the line myself though: this sounds a lot better for cannabis than heroin. e: partly this is because allowing private providers basically invites the drug lords to put on suits: the main gain from this is the destruction of the organised crime funding stream, which pure decriminalisation (as in the Netherlands) hasn't impacted whatsoever.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:41
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Obliterati posted:If you nationalise the entire process (at least initally), what you have is a nice little money-maker that more than offsets the additional NHS burdens. Ban marketing etc., limit it to state-run outlets so all profit remains socialised. Not sure where to draw the line myself though: this sounds a lot better for cannabis than heroin. There is absolutely no difference between national institutions selling drugs and gangs selling drugs to your average drug addict, and when money becomes an issue we see the beneficial knockons (massive decreases in gang crime and common burglary/muggings) disappear. Let a state agency sell weed, sure. But if it's physically addictive then it has no business being sold.
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Oct 5, 2014 17:47
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