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Other posted:Pfft, you don't need astroturf money, MRAs or even plain old rightwingers to assail Hillary with misogyny. Lord knows plenty of self described leftist Democrats did that during 2008 primary season without any of those things being in the mix. How many times did you read people using nicknames like Shrillary in this subforum back then? Or saw chauvinist remarks or bullying directed towards her female supporters? Some awful poo poo was said and done in 2008. And Hillary basically found almost enough racist Democrats to run the Southern Strategy against Obama, which didn't sink him in the general any more than the existence of misogynist Democrats would hurt Hillary.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:13
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Other posted:Pfft, you don't need astroturf money, MRAs or even plain old rightwingers to assail Hillary with misogyny. Lord knows plenty of self described leftist Democrats did that during 2008 primary season without any of those things being in the mix. How many times did you read people using nicknames like Shrillary in this subforum back then? Or saw chauvinist remarks or bullying directed towards her female supporters? Some awful poo poo was said and done in 2008. Sure, there's plenty of baseline misogyny to draw from, but MRAs are the most plausible inroad to the coveted *youth demographic* the Republicans have ever had and that worries me.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:16
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Kilty Monroe posted:Sure, there's plenty of baseline misogyny to draw from, but MRAs are the most plausible inroad to the coveted *youth demographic* the Republicans have ever had and that worries me. Do you like weed? Do you hate women? Have we got a Rand Paul for you!
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Oct 6, 2014 07:19
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Nah, libertarians are the republican vehicle for young, urban whites. MRAs are useful insofar as the Venn diagram between "libertarians" and "MRAs" is close to a perfect circle and it provides great red meat for their misogynistic base demographic.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:21
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Armani posted:I wish but no, not on the forums that kind of keyed the phrase, "There are no girls on the Internet." I feel like there's been a pretty strong wave of anti-feminism on the internet lately, and I think it really does deserve a thread of its own. I read a good portion of the feminism threads in both D&D and in EN, and I'm not really convinced that they were any worse than, say, this thread. So I've been mulling over making a thread for a while, but I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to do the OP justice. If no one else makes one soon though I probably will.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:26
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VikingofRock posted:I feel like there's been a pretty strong wave of anti-feminism on the internet lately, and I think it really does deserve a thread of its own. I read a good portion of the feminism threads in both D&D and in EN, and I'm not really convinced that they were any worse than, say, this thread. So I've been mulling over making a thread for a while, but I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to do the OP justice. If no one else makes one soon though I probably will. I'm pretty sure that topic sits high at the top of the Can't Handle list, especially given the current state of moderation, but I'd appreciate the effort at least. Look for the OP of the gassed feminism thread to work off of, it was pretty good.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:32
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Kilty Monroe posted:I'm pretty sure that topic sits high at the top of the Can't Handle list, especially given the current state of moderation, but I'd appreciate the effort at least. Look for the OP of the gassed feminism thread to work off of, it was pretty good. Got a link?
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Oct 6, 2014 07:36
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VikingofRock posted:Got a link? http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3520914 Given how it ended maybe add a "TERFs gently caress off" bit somewhere.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:42
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VikingofRock posted:I feel like there's been a pretty strong wave of anti-feminism on the internet lately, and I think it really does deserve a thread of its own. I read a good portion of the feminism threads in both D&D and in EN, and I'm not really convinced that they were any worse than, say, this thread. So I've been mulling over making a thread for a while, but I'm not sure I'm knowledgeable enough to do the OP justice. If no one else makes one soon though I probably will. I was remarking about this to one of my acquaintances the other day with particular eye to the Intel-pulling-ads-from-Gamasutra news. Sure, gaming has historically had a macho/bravado aspect which has been fairly negative towards women, but the disdain of women has struck me as increasingly vitriolic, roiling, and above all political coming from that community over the past few years.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:44
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ComradeCosmobot posted:... the disdain of women has struck me as increasingly vitriolic, roiling, and above all political coming from that community over the past few years. It's like a cultural outlet for sexual frustration cross-pollinated with the GOP War on Women
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Oct 6, 2014 07:49
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That the #gamersgate poo poo actually got Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra for running articles criticizing gamer culture, as well as establishment support from the AEI, is sad enough that it's worth discussing. Especially since the whole movement is entirely people who never grew up from the self-absorbed phase where it seems like defending video games is an urgent and worthy cause. Well, that and people who are explicitly using it to attack "SJW"s.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:52
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Accretionist posted:It's like a cultural outlet for sexual frustration cross-pollinated with the GOP War on Women I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, but I actually made the point in said conversation that it was odd (and possibly outright concerning) that the growth of the two movements seemed to be superficially correlated.
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Oct 6, 2014 07:52
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ComradeCosmobot posted:I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, but I actually made the point in said conversation that it was odd (and possibly outright concerning) that the growth of the two movements seemed to be superficially correlated. It's not really correlated. The misogyny has always been there, and there's always been a few people criticizing. It just didn't explode until the people doing the criticizing became high profile enough for the gaming audience that inhabits certain areas of the internet to feel threatened. The GOP War on Women has also been going on for a long time, but it just wasn't until the 2012 election cycle that the Dems decided to combine a bunch of the issues and do proper messaging. State level GOP'ers had been cleverly taking potshots at the protections in Roe v. Wade for years. The Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act was also the very first thing Obama signed in 2009, and yet War on Women was not there as a clear issue in those words during the midterms in 2010. ErIog fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 07:57
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You can't have been around for the early years of the internet and find it more hostile now, heh. What you're seeing is the result of women standing up and some men not dealing with the new normal very well. That's why it looks worse. Before, there were fewer women, fewer probably stood up and the men who get really pissed off by female involvement and treating them as equals didn't have as much to shriek about. In this way, it can be likened to the shrinking white electorate that gets increasingly angry as it shrinks in a world where, in reality, there's on balance more equality every day, however far there is to go.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:03
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Edit: ^^There's a media profile to it the past few years I don't think I've seen before. ComradeCosmobot posted:I'm not sure if you're being facetious here, but I actually made the point in said conversation that it was odd (and possibly outright concerning) that the growth of the two movements seemed to be superficially correlated. Quite serious. You've got guys without access to sex/intimacy/relationships sporting all this pent up angst having that angst finally being given a substantive poke. What do they do when marshaling a response? They pull from what's in the air around them. I think that's where the obliviously political dynamic comes in. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 08:05
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Harp plays in background, slow fade from grey clouds to following scene. Color scheme is black and white film. Fade in calendar on wall, pages begin tearing off quickly. Fade to black after at least a dozen pages rip off and blow away. Spin in newspaper, dramatic music plays. Upper right hand corner reads: June 16 2016, Sunday Edition. Headlines read: Women: Can't Live With Em, Can't Live Without Em! Spin in new newspaper over previous. Headline: Hillary: Ew! Totally Not Hot! Spin in newspaper over previous. Headline: Maybe Putin Will Finally Take Us Seriously When She's On The Rag Thanks Obama.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:26
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They'll have to use the period/PMS argument once Hillary stares into Putin's eyes and sees his soul, and then drinks it like a shot of ice-cold vodka.
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Oct 6, 2014 08:46
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ReidRansom posted:He was a good university president though. He was the commencement speaker for my class at WSU, less than a week after Bin Laden was killed. I knew his daughter through a class we both had and got a photo with them after the ceremony. It was pretty neat in terms of timing and he personally commissioned that year's ROTC class.
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Oct 6, 2014 09:13
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Hodgepodge posted:They'll have to use the period/PMS argument once Hillary stares into Putin's eyes and sees his soul, and then drinks it like a shot of ice-cold vodka.  I do feel the need to point out that Hillary is 66 years old and will be 68 in 2016; she's most definitely post-menopausal, so any PMS jokes/references show a serious lack of knowledge of basic human biology. So for Republicans, it's just standard operating procedure.  2016's gonna be fun. 
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Oct 6, 2014 13:03
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ReindeerF posted:In Joe The Biden news, he's up to three apologies to foreign leaders in the last couple of weeks - Singapore, UAE and Turkey. He's gotten a promotion from calling to apologize only to domestic leaders for what he meant when he said something boneheaded. Clearly Obama's giving him a broader portfolio to prepare him for 2016. If he meant that weapons the Saudi's sent to rebels in Syria ended up in the hands of IS or Jabhat al-Nusra, he almost certainly wasn't wrong. Then again, America shouldn't really be chastising other countries for providing weapons to certain groups, that then end up in the hands of extremists...
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Oct 6, 2014 13:22
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Hodgepodge posted:They'll have to use the period/PMS argument once Hillary stares into Putin's eyes and sees his soul, and then drinks it like a shot of ice-cold vodka. I'd really like to believe nobody will be stupid enough to use the 'female hormones' angle in an attack on Hillary, given her age, but I don't want to set myself up for yet another disappointment...
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Oct 6, 2014 13:30
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I have no faith in people in general when it comes to having factual knowledge of scary black people and women, let alone the Republicans.
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Oct 6, 2014 13:40
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She's mentally disabled, have you heard?
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Oct 6, 2014 13:46
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Boise dweller: every time I run into an actual African - American I get a little weirded out because it's so uncommon. But flat out refugees/immigrants from Africa? All the time. It's cool because my French is actually useful on occasion. Yeah, back when I was there it was mostly Bosnian refugees and they were pretty chill, the variation in phenotype was especially interesting because one guy looked white as snow and another girl looked basically Italian/Greek (which isn't surprising based on the geographic area).
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Oct 6, 2014 13:57
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Google News had an article about a local GLORIOUS JOB CREATOR who shockingly exploited the gently caress out of everyone beneath him when he was pulling himself up by his own bootstraps: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/welcome_page/?shf=/2014/10/05/242049_when-one-mans-bootstraps-leave.htmlquote:Records show that workers have complained at least 15 times times since 2002 that Miller, a contractor in Raleigh, N.C., failed to pay them for work framing, painting or hanging drywall across the Southeast. Twice, federal labor investigators concluded Miller had failed to pay workers; a judge in a separate lawsuit found the same violations for another set of workers. Each time, Miller has escaped with impunity. Also has a decent bit about employers loving to classify everyone as a contractor.
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Oct 6, 2014 14:52
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That's part of a whole series on rampant fraud and abuse in the construction industry: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/static/features/Contract-to-cheat/
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Oct 6, 2014 15:18
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Hodgepodge posted:That the #gamersgate poo poo actually got Intel to pull ads from Gamasutra for running articles criticizing gamer culture, as well as establishment support from the AEI, is sad enough that it's worth discussing. I keep seeing this, and apparently missed it entirely. What the hell is gamergate? Is it that poo poo with Sarkeesian?
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Oct 6, 2014 15:19
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Talmonis posted:I keep seeing this, and apparently missed it entirely. What the hell is gamergate? Is it that poo poo with Sarkeesian? Same angry nerds but way dumber and more boring. Some girl dev had sex with dudes and something about game reviews and blah blah dumb bullshit bunch of weirdos with mechanical keyboards are angry at another oppressive vagina threatening their Video Games.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:23
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Talmonis posted:I keep seeing this, and apparently missed it entirely. What the hell is gamergate? Is it that poo poo with Sarkeesian? I never complain about derails in this thread, but this time I'm going to say please, please let's not go there. There's a thread in GBS to talk about it, if you're interested.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:23
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Sorry, I'll underail. How bout this for politics, SCOTUS denied cert on the marriage cases, which basically gives precedent without giving precedent.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:24
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So Dave Weigel left Slate for Bloomberg News? Slate was never amazing, but this seems like a step down. Why Joe, why? 
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Oct 6, 2014 15:25
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Kilty Monroe posted:Sometimes I wonder if right-wing money is helping astroturf the MRA movement in the hopes of burying Hillary in a wave of misogynist backlash, much like how promoting thinly-veiled racism has helped drain Obama's political capital. I can't tell if this is being too paranoid or just giving the competence of the right's strategists too much credit. With that specific goal? I doubt it. Still, those assholes are getting more active and powerful, and since interests align connections are being made. It's shocking how fast they have grown. 8 years ago they didn't exist. 6 years ago they were a few "pick up artist" forums based off a MTV show. 4 years ago they started getting "parental custody reform" bills passed in states (3 so far) that, while made needed changes, also played to the less lovely parts of the MRA agenda. 2 years ago they had Ken Cuccinelli going to their meetings to speak, fundraise, and recruit volunteers. You have to wonder where this will top out
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Oct 6, 2014 15:26
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Joementum posted:I never complain about derails in this thread, but this time I'm going to say please, please let's not go there. There's a thread in GBS to talk about it, if you're interested. I can see the problem with a derail, but good lord GBS isn't a place to talk about anything remotely self-conscious.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:28
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Other posted:How many times did you read people using nicknames like Shrillary in this subforum back then? Or saw chauvinist remarks or bullying directed towards her female supporters? Some awful poo poo was said and done in 2008. And before. I got an SA account so my husband could send me links to funny SA stuff. I learned real fast not to read anything other than what he sent or browse anywhere because of the rampant misogyny. With 2008 the political forum became a big deal and I browsed some but the same old poo poo was everywhere, just dialed back from yelling "Woman Woman Woman! " To something more indirect. Edit: overriding auto-correct McAlister fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 15:49
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ReindeerF posted:You can't have been around for the early years of the internet and find it more hostile now, heh. What you're seeing is the result of women standing up and some men not dealing with the new normal very well. That's why it looks worse. Before, there were fewer women, fewer probably stood up and the men who get really pissed off by female involvement and treating them as equals didn't have as much to shriek about. Nah, there is definitely a new angle to it as well. People are identifying themselves by the media consume and thus any criticism of that media is a criticism of them. It is a level of brand identification/ in group-outgroup thinking that didn't pop up until the late 90s. It's not just internet pissants either, look at the way creationism, geocentricism, and antivaxxers spikes in polling when a Democrat is in office. People knee jerk to certain beliefs to say "I am not like them" and criticizing those beliefs, even when they agree with those criticisms when their "side" is in power, is now a criticism of them, rather than of the statement. And it is met with the level of vitriol as a result.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:51
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Talmonis posted:I keep seeing this, and apparently missed it entirely. What the hell is gamergate? Is it that poo poo with Sarkeesian? It's a cover for unabashed misogyny in the "gaming" scene. By whining about games journalism and the possibility of collusion, you get to attack female game developers who make free games because obviously they were only sleeping with the editor of a Gawker gaming site for some sweet, undeserved praise for her 2 year old game that doesn't make any money because... Reasons? It's misogyny. E: treating women like people is a hard thing to ask a nonzero number of the population Phone fucked around with this message at 16:01 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 15:58
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Talmonis posted:I can see the problem with a derail, but good lord GBS isn't a place to talk about anything remotely self-conscious. I think the problem is that this is a topic which would bring people here from GBS. Which is probably the most damning thing I can say about the issue, and a good reason to drop it.
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Oct 6, 2014 15:58
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Phone posted:Google News had an article about a local GLORIOUS JOB CREATOR who shockingly exploited the gently caress out of everyone beneath him when he was pulling himself up by his own bootstraps: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/welcome_page/?shf=/2014/10/05/242049_when-one-mans-bootstraps-leave.html The defrauded employees in this case are low-wage Hispanic immigrants who heard an advertisement about hiring on Hispanic radio. It's pretty obvious Miller sought out people from that particular demographic to defraud because they are less likely to be both willing and able to fight back. The timing of this news story is a bit funny. Tom Perez, the Secretary of Labor was at the Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute Gala last week reassuring Hispanic voters that he and Obama have their back. There was even a pitch to get Perez to succeed Eric Holder as the next Attorney General. Perez is himself Hispanic, I hope this story makes it to more prominent national news outlets. I'd love to see Perez explain why he has failed so far to exercise his legal authority to enforce the Fair Labor Standards Act. The Secretary can bring criminal charges against the employer, or file suit to obtain an injunction to have the employer pay withheld wages. None of that has been done and instead the low-wage workers have to rely on pro-bono lawyers to represent them in county courthouses and the county sheriff chasing around the employer for assets to seize. LolitaSama fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Oct 6, 2014 |
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Oct 6, 2014 16:00
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Fried Chicken posted:Nah, there is definitely a new angle to it as well. People are identifying themselves by the media consume and thus any criticism of that media is a criticism of them. It is a level of brand identification/ in group-outgroup thinking that didn't pop up until the late 90s. It's not just internet pissants either, look at the way creationism, geocentricism, and antivaxxers spikes in polling when a Democrat is in office. People knee jerk to certain beliefs to say "I am not like them" and criticizing those beliefs, even when they agree with those criticisms when their "side" is in power, is now a criticism of them, rather than of the statement. And it is met with the level of vitriol as a result. "When those guys do it then it's wrong but when we do it it's right" is definitely not a new thing.
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Oct 6, 2014 16:02
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LolitaSama posted:Perez is himself Hispanic, and the only Latino member of Obama's cabinet. Julian Castro is HUD secretary.
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