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Alpha Kenny Juan posted:
The first time this happened to me as a kid I threw the cartridge in the back of a closet and didn't come back to it for a year. Getting the curse music as the game tells you you've lost your save is terrifying. Edit: A similar thing happened to me the first time I got a game over in Zelda 2.
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Oct 7, 2014 02:35
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That can't be right, can it? Did DQ3 happen before DW2 was sent stateside? I remember playing Dragon Warrior 2 and it had battery save because one day the data was corrupted and the music for "you put on a cursed item" went off and I got a save data corrupted message.
, especially since the TV was loud at the time. I didn't play it for a month after that.
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The lost save happened to me once in DQ3, because it was so unexpected and that sound is so creepy it really freaked me out too. I think I might have had nightmares after that where something bad would be chasing me making that sound.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:04
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Levantine posted:TBH, it's the best way to run it if you can. The smoothing and such makes it looks just pristine. There is (or was, last time I played) a problem with flashback cutscenes that makes the text unreadable, though. Not a big loss because there's only a few of those, but annoying when it does pop up.
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Oct 7, 2014 04:10
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I think probably the "worst" in the series for me is 6. There's just this long period where it feels really, really aimless. (If you had asked me like ten years ago I would have said "4" without hesitation but there have been rereleases that aren't subject to the godawful mandatory party AI the original release had.)
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Oct 7, 2014 04:36
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Seeing as 6 gets recommended here still, sounds like we're trying to find a bad rose out of a dozen when they're all appreciable in some way. Quite unlike Final Fantasy!
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Oct 7, 2014 04:43
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Seeing as 6 gets recommended here still, sounds like we're trying to find a bad rose out of a dozen when they're all appreciable in some way. Quite unlike Final Fantasy! Having played 1 to 12, plus 14, the only truly bad Final Fantasy was 2. I could think of nice things to say about any one of the others. Even the ones I didn't particularly enjoy.
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Oct 7, 2014 05:16
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Draile posted:The first time this happened to me as a kid I threw the cartridge in the back of a closet and didn't come back to it for a year. You could short games and force data corruption too. If you pulled FF1 out of the NES while it was still on it wiped your game. Doesn't matter what you were doing in the game or where. It got wiped. DW games were odd because I can't ever recall all 3 save slots corrupting at the same time. At least not DW3 or DW4. I had a DW3 game corrupt on me in mid fight and it messed up the music so the TV made some eerie as poo poo sound and a random sentence was written in combat after an attack message. I wish I had been able to take a picture of the screen at the time because I think one of the words was "soaps" which was weird as poo poo because it's random and probably used by 1 NPC so my guess is the data corrupted and instead of combat it grabbed text from that NPC and others at random. It freaked me the gently caress out as a kid but I was more angry that the hour of grinding I had just done was wasted by the loss.  Potsticker posted:Having played 1 to 12, plus 14, the only truly bad Final Fantasy was 2. I could think of nice things to say about any one of the others. Even the ones I didn't particularly enjoy. FF3 is unsalvageable garbage in all of its forms. FF2's remakes fix the game greatly and while it's still not a good game, the FF2 remake is far better than any version of FF3 to ever get squeezed out of the Squaresoft/Enix orifice. The only good thing to come out of FF3 is the Crystal Tower in FF14.
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Oct 7, 2014 05:25
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Final Fantasy Vs Dragon Quest is a perfect example as to why iteration is sometimes better than innovation. I feel like FF's insistence on recreating itself each new game bites itself in the rear end. There's nothing wrong with reinvention, but sometimes FF takes out entire core features that really improved the gameplay last time and just starts fresh. Surely starting fresh each time uses an insane amount of resources? It annoyed me so much that the amazing encounter system in XII was completely axed in later games. Gambits, which improved the core game in spades, was killed off and we had to rely on terribly limited party AI in its sequel, XIII. If it were DQ, they would have taken what worked in XII and improved it. Things that didn't work out? They'd improve that too. And this is why DQ has reached Jrpg perfection: because it has toiled over 25 years in the oven to become disgustingly polished to the point where you can eat off it. And I say this as someone who likes every FF. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 05:33
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Himuro posted:Final Fantasy Vs Dragon Quest is a perfect example as to why iteration is sometimes better than innovation. I feel like FF's insistence on recreating itself each new game bites itself in the rear end. There's nothing wrong with reinvention, but sometimes FF takes out entire core features that really improved the gameplay last time and just starts fresh. Surely starting fresh each time uses an insane amount of resources? It annoyed me so much that the amazing encounter system in XII was completely axed in later games. Gambits, which improved the core game in spades, was killed off and we had to rely on terribly limited party AI in its sequel, XIII. If it were DQ, they would have taken what worked in XII and improved it. Things that didn't work out? They'd improve that too. And this is why DQ has reached Jrpg perfection: because it has toiled over 25 years in the oven to become disgustingly polished to the point where you can eat off it. Evil Fluffy posted:FF3 is unsalvageable garbage in all of its forms. FF2's remakes fix the game greatly and while it's still not a good game, the FF2 remake is far better than any version of FF3 to ever get squeezed out of the Squaresoft/Enix orifice. Gonna group these two together because iterating on FF1 led to FF3 and iterating on FF3 is what gave us FF5. And unfortunately that trend didn't continue with FF7, but we still ended up with some great systems in the later games and the Tactics series. While I agree with Himuro is that Final Fantasy has some issue with discarding systems at seeming random and not iterating enough, I'd hardly say that DQ has reached any sort of perfection. DQ9 was really great, but there's still a long ways to go. Whether that's forwards or backwards is left up to the discerning individual. 
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Oct 7, 2014 05:57
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Potsticker posted:Gonna group these two together because iterating on FF1 led to FF3 and iterating on FF3 is what gave us FF5. And unfortunately that trend didn't continue with FF7, but we still ended up with some great systems in the later games and the Tactics series. FF5 is the perfect FF iteration. Funnily, for that reason, it's also the best 2d FF of all time. They took the formula of 3 and just knocked it out of the drat park. I wish FF would do that more often. Sometimes familiarity is a good thing.
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Oct 7, 2014 06:37
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Himuro posted:FF5 is the perfect FF iteration. Funnily, for that reason, it's also the best 2d FF of all time. They took the formula of 3 and just knocked it out of the drat park. I wish FF would do that more often. Sometimes familiarity is a good thing. FF5 is almost perfect. It has a really terrible story, though. Luckily everything else about it is so great that the story doesn't matter at all!
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Oct 7, 2014 06:39
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Potsticker posted:FF5 is almost perfect. It has a really terrible story, though. Luckily everything else about it is so great that the story doesn't matter at all! I think the story is fine for what they were going for.   I mean, how can you hate?
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Oct 7, 2014 07:10
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Evil Fluffy posted:FF3 is unsalvageable garbage in all of its forms. FF2's remakes fix the game greatly and while it's still not a good game, the FF2 remake is far better than any version of FF3 to ever get squeezed out of the Squaresoft/Enix orifice. I... I love FF 3. Best NES title, one of my favorite boss themes, it's like a more classic predecessor to 5. The DS game is a lost cause though. And the numbered series might generally be good-great (Potsticker, you said you skipped 13 so I won't go there) but Mystic Quest. It's like Chrono Cross where you're just better off buying the soundtrack.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:13
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Evil Fluffy posted:
FF3 was an extremely well made and challenging RPG for its time. FF2 was the one that was generally and rightfully regarded as garbage.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:19
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With DQ7, DQM 1, 2, and even freaking DQM:SL on the iPhone not coming out in English, it definitely seems like Square-Enix has abandoned the US market. When was the last release they announced?
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Oct 7, 2014 07:46
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Himuro posted:I think the story is fine for what they were going for. The writing does have its good points, no argument there!
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Oct 7, 2014 07:51
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Arcaeris posted:When was the last release they announced? We got DQ1 a few weeks back.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:53
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kirbysuperstar posted:We got DQ1 a few weeks back. Yes, but it was an easy re-translation. Not much time nor effort required. Something like 7 or the 3ds Monsters titles require a lot more effort and man power, man power that probably won't be worth the investment. Announcing a new Monsters title or gently caress, DQX for pc, would put a lot of faith into the fan base. DQ seems done in America. A big question I've got is whether or not 5 and 6 are coming to mobile in English. After all, those translations were done by Nintendo and not Square Enix. It doesn't bode well at all.
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Oct 7, 2014 07:57
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Okay, I was only answering the question. Also, pretty sure 5/6 were done by 8-4 with Nintendo's wallet, for all the difference that makes (none).
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Oct 7, 2014 08:33
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Himuro posted:Yes, but it was an easy re-translation. Not much time nor effort required. Something like 7 or the 3ds Monsters titles require a lot more effort and man power, man power that probably won't be worth the investment. Announcing a new Monsters title or gently caress, DQX for pc, would put a lot of faith into the fan base. DQ seems done in America. A big question I've got is whether or not 5 and 6 are coming to mobile in English. After all, those translations were done by Nintendo and not Square Enix. It doesn't bode well at all. DQM 1/2 and 7 are all games that have no voice over work or anything that would muck up a localization. A team 3 or 4 people could probably have every line of text in the game translated and ready for insertion in a working week, or less. It's really mind boggling why such minimal effort projects that would undoubtedly sell at least 100k or more copies are being avoided.
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Oct 7, 2014 09:10
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Considering how big DQ7 is I'm pretty sure it'd take a lot longer then a week to translate it.
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Oct 7, 2014 09:20
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Naw, the standard practice for localization as far as I know is exporting an XML file that has everything in it, which is just blanket translated; the majority of the translating is probably done in days, or a couple of weeks tops, with fine touches coming later. While DQ7 is a long game, the dialogue tends to be pretty PG level and basic. As for DQM, those games have rather short stories, so there isn't very much substance to translate. DQM Joker also sold extremely well, I believe, so not bringing one of the DQMs for 3DS over to Americas and Europe is just straight up poor decision making.
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Oct 7, 2014 10:48
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Himuro posted:Yes, but it was an easy re-translation. Not much time nor effort required. Something like 7 or the 3ds Monsters titles require a lot more effort and man power, man power that probably won't be worth the investment. Announcing a new Monsters title or gently caress, DQX for pc, would put a lot of faith into the fan base. DQ seems done in America. A big question I've got is whether or not 5 and 6 are coming to mobile in English. After all, those translations were done by Nintendo and not Square Enix. It doesn't bode well at all. The sales of 5 and 6 were already horrible on the DS so I certainly wouldn't expect much.
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Oct 7, 2014 11:46
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BabyRyoga posted:Naw, the standard practice for localization as far as I know is exporting an XML file that has everything in it, which is just blanket translated; the majority of the translating is probably done in days, or a couple of weeks tops, with fine touches coming later. While DQ7 is a long game, the dialogue tends to be pretty PG level and basic. As for DQM, those games have rather short stories, so there isn't very much substance to translate. DQM Joker also sold extremely well, I believe, so not bringing one of the DQMs for 3DS over to Americas and Europe is just straight up poor decision making. This costs money. DQ remakes in NA don't make money. BabyRyoga posted:It's really mind boggling why such minimal effort projects that would undoubtedly sell at least 100k or more copies are being avoided. DQ4 ds sold like, 20k in its first month. lol There's a reason that Nintendo published 5 and 6 in the west and not S-E. S-E washed their hands of it. Due to 5 and 6's sales, now even Nintendo have said,"enough lol" and don't want to deal with it. So you aren't going to get DQ7 in English from Either S-E NA or Nintendo of America. S-E didn't even want to bring over Bravely Default and it was up to Nintendo to translate it. Dude, DQ is in a bad place right now. I'm not sure where you got this 100k number from, but it's not reality. kirbysuperstar posted:Okay, I was only answering the question. 8-4 translated, but Nintendo published it. Do you think Nintendo will be willing to let go of the rights? Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 16:05
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It's incredible that people think localizing a game just means translating a big XML file. What about QA, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, or working with retailers to actually get the product on store shelves?
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Oct 7, 2014 16:17
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Adam Bowen posted:It's incredible that people think localizing a game just means translating a big XML file. What about QA, manufacturing, shipping, marketing, or working with retailers to actually get the product on store shelves? Pretty much. Localization is hefty work and it costs money. I'm pretty positive it'd take more than a week to do a game the size of DQ7. Never mind the fact that translations are rarely straight translations and require lots of research for localization and consideration for location. Why should S-E do all this with DQ7 when DQ4 sold like 20k units? I wouldn't do it either. Then again, jrpgs are in a different...climate than when those remakes came out. Personally, I'm starved for some quality jrpg gaming. As Bravely Default showed, jrpg fans - especially handheld jrpg fans - are thirsty. This is the perfect opportunity to pull the loving trigger and advertise it like Nintendo did with BD. Western DQ fans' best bet is for DQ to do great on mobile. DQ1 was in the top ten on the app store when it was released, so maybe there's hope yet. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 16:24 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 16:21
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I forgot which game but didn't a goon translate a game where the team just got a huge text file where the text wasn't in order so they had to play the entire game to find the context? As for localization, I always saw that as what comes after just translating the text.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:24
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Yeah, you can also miss a lot of context when you're just translating a text dump. Which is why the QA portion is so important. Sometimes it can be silly things, too. Like doing a list of items and not realizing that there's a gun named after the boss who drops it and translating the two of them slightly differently because it's essentially a made up word.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:29
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Himuro posted:Pretty much. Localization is hefty work and it costs money. I'm pretty positive it'd take more than a week to do a game the size of DQ7. Never mind the fact that translations are rarely straight translations and require lots of research for localization and consideration for location. Where are you getting that 20k units number from? This shows 140k in North America: http://dragon-quest.org/wiki/Worldwide_Dragon_Quest_Sales - I'll accept that it didn't do as well as it could have, but then why translate V and VI? If that 140k, number is correct, then it outsold it's NES release by nearly double. Given that chart, though, I can see why DQ7 wouldn't be a possibility given the sliding numbers of V and VI.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:31
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Azubah posted:I forgot which game but didn't a goon translate a game where the team just got a huge text file where the text wasn't in order so they had to play the entire game to find the context? Yes, often, the means of getting the text isn't skillfull at all. Just assuming translators just get the text in an easy manner is naive. It's like any other job, and we're dealing with オヤジ Japanese companies who barely consider western releases. Suikoden II is a classic example. If I recall, it was just him, maybe one other guy? Anyways, their only means of translating the game was playing the game. They had to replay through the game multiple times just to get every line right. Game translation isn't an exact science and it's...very time consuming and crazy. It's rarely just translation.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:34
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Levantine posted:Where are you getting that 20k units number from? This shows 140k in North America: http://dragon-quest.org/wiki/Worldwide_Dragon_Quest_Sales - I'll accept that it didn't do as well as it could have, but then why translate V and VI? If that 140k, number is correct, then it outsold it's NES release by nearly double. Given that chart, though, I can see why DQ7 wouldn't be a possibility given the sliding numbers of V and VI. According to this: http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/official-september-08-npd-thread.172317044/ DQIV sold 35k-ish in its first month of sale. However, it took four months for it to reach 76k life to date: http://www.gamespot.com/forums/system-wars-314159282/life-to-date-npd-software-numbers-26820226/ I really doubt it sold double that after that point. It seems quite a stretch and I doubt that 140k number. According to your link, they got their sources from vgchartz. vgchartz is an undocumented web site that does not get official sales data. They tend to tally how many were sold at local gamestops. Yeah. Don't trust any game sales stat that was "sourced" by vgchartz. RE: 20k number. I may be thinking of DQV ds. It's been a lonnnng time. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 16:44
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Himuro posted:According to this: The 140k number is from 12/09 which is 12 months after the 76k number. I can see it selling another 60k in that time. EDIT: not that it really matters, i doubt S-E is basing it off just that game. Their numbers fell off pretty hard it looks like so DQ7 just might not be profitable for them.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:55
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Levantine posted:The 140k number is from 12/09 which is 12 months after the 76k number. I can see it selling another 60k in that time. Really? DQ has some legs then. Usually game sales are front loaded for niche games.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:59
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BabyRyoga posted:Naw, the standard practice for localization as far as I know is exporting an XML file that has everything in it, which is just blanket translated; the majority of the translating is probably done in days, or a couple of weeks tops, with fine touches coming later. While DQ7 is a long game, the dialogue tends to be pretty PG level and basic. As for DQM, those games have rather short stories, so there isn't very much substance to translate. DQM Joker also sold extremely well, I believe, so not bringing one of the DQMs for 3DS over to Americas and Europe is just straight up poor decision making. I'm a game translator, and your assumptions are hilariously wrong. A good translator's capable of doing around 2,000 words/day. (I'd routinely do 3,000+ on big projects with no days off for months.) PS DQ7 had well over 100,000 words of text, and had a team of translators making a real hash of it over at least half a year, and then another two months for a rewriter to fix everything. While all that was going on, I managed to crank out GBC DW3 (around two months), GBC DWM2 (around three months), and PS Torneko (under one month of insanity). Also, it's not really possible to add fine touches later for consistency of tone, continuity, etc.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:08
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Himuro posted:Really? DQ has some legs then. Usually game sales are front loaded for niche games. Limited initial production run, then they made more? I don't know. That said, DWIX (the most recent NA localisation) sold pretty well from what I hear. I don't have good numbers to post, but if the most recent localisation sold well then I think that that would give them more impetus to localise it despite IV/V/VI not selling so well.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:10
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Himuro posted:Really? DQ has some legs then. Usually game sales are front loaded for niche games. Well, 60k (in North America) over 12 months is only 5k a month. That hardly sounds like they're flying off the shelves. 
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Oct 7, 2014 18:18
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Doug Dinsdale posted:I'm a game translator, and your assumptions are hilariously wrong. I recently played though a couple of the DS Dragon Quest games and almost every monster (and a fair number of Items and NPCs) are named after a pun. Are there that many puns and bad jokes in the Japanese version? That must be a pain in the rear end to translate. vvvv - I love the puns and bad jokes. I'm just curious about how that affects localization. kzin602 fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 18:22
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Evil Fluffy posted:DQ9 used a multiplayer system I'd wanted in RPGs since the 90s though and if more RPGs would use that sort of system to allow multiplayer in a turn-based RPG. It mostly makes up for their unfunny translators trying to make everything a pun. If you don't like horrible puns, then there is something wrong with you.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:37
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kzin602 posted:I recently played though a couple of the DS Dragon Quest games and almost every monster (and a fair number of Items and NPCs) are named after a pun. Are there that many puns and bad jokes in the Japanese version? That must be a pain in the rear end to translate. Look up articles about the localization of Earthbound, that was a nightmare it sounds like.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:47
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I've never been able to play DQIX multi. Did I miss much? The drat DS never connected to the Internet no matter where I went.JustJeff88 posted:Limited initial production run, then they made more? I don't know. DQIX did real well for what it was. It seems to me, the 2d DQ's are the ones that westerners just can't get into. Maybe since DQ7 3ds is in 3d it'd sell more with a decent ad campaign to get thirsty Jrpg fans off their butts. Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 18:49
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