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Tias posted:So, everyone in my facebook feed who are remotely left-leaning post shittons of pictures of female YPG fighters, like it's the second coming of Marx or something. Isn't the kurdish areas pretty lovely w/r/t human rights as well? They were formally a secular Marxist Leninist guerrilla group and targeted civilian collaborators but I don't think they've had any significant human rights issues, especially after they deescalated civilian targeting.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:32
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I thought the kurdish areas had a rather bad track record with human rights. Didn't someone ITT claim they use live ammo against protestors?`
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Oct 7, 2014 16:36
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Volkerball posted:Real well done not having any hand whatsoever in ethnic cleansing, US. If this is in response to America not supporting the FSA against Assad earlier, wouldn't Russia be more to blame since it was their interests that kept Europe and America from intervening in the same way they did in Libya?
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Oct 7, 2014 16:37
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Tias posted:So, everyone in my facebook feed who are remotely left-leaning post shittons of pictures of female YPG fighters, like it's the second coming of Marx or something. Isn't the kurdish areas pretty lovely w/r/t human rights as well? I've heard that the Kurdish authortities in Iraq are pretty corrupt, but don't reallly know much more than that on that front. Turkish Kurdistan however is generally seen as much more religiously conservative than the rest of the country and also has problems with stuff like honor killings, and Iraqi Kurdistan is like the only place outside of Africa where female circumcision is a widespread phenomenon. As for female soldiers I would say that honestly it doesn't really say much about your track on female rights other than that there are female soldiers. It seems to be effective propaganda though as many people tend to see them as more sympathetic because of this, also (especially the European) left has idolized the PKK for quite a long time anyway.
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Oct 7, 2014 16:59
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Tias posted:So, everyone in my facebook feed who are remotely left-leaning post shittons of pictures of female YPG fighters, like it's the second coming of Marx or something. Isn't the kurdish areas pretty lovely w/r/t human rights as well? Feminism and Women's Liberation is a big part of PKK/KCK ideology, or at least they want to be seen that way. PKK had women militants and women-only regiments for a long time. But yeah, the larger Kurdish society is heavily patriarchal, in the original sense of the term. Arranged marriages, honor killings, suspicious suicides of women and all that nice stuff... fspades fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 17:12
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So YPG/PKK is actually rather sympathetic, it's just the actual kurdish lands that suck.
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Oct 7, 2014 17:33
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YPG also has a shorter history, and has done cool things like sign Geneva Call's pledge against sexual violence or using child soldiers.
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Oct 7, 2014 17:49
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Tias posted:I thought the kurdish areas had a rather bad track record with human rights. Didn't someone ITT claim they use live ammo against protestors?` That was probably me, the specific incident was the Amuda protest: http://m.hrw.org/ru/node/126064/section/13 The YPG/PYD have been routinely accused of detaining and harassing members of other Kurdish parties, specifically the KDP-S - the Syrian offshoot of Barzani's KDP. Its not secret they despise each other and before the fall of Mosul neither side was on speaking terms, the PYD canton courts had convicted multiple members of the KDP-S on terrorism charges that most observers believe were entirely fabricated and the KDP was doing everything in their power to deny aid to the YPG/PYD. The YPG does have it roots in the PKK, an organization which routinely imprisoned and purged dissenters and used violence against Kurdish political opponents. Though the party has shifted to more Democratic politics after Ocalan's arrest there are many in the leadership who still believe in the more authoritarian style of leadership the organization used for decades,.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:12
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Not sure how accurate this is but it is fairly relevant.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:30
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"Libertarian Socialist" What does that even mean?
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Oct 7, 2014 18:39
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Well, I think its fair to say that the list of reasons for which the PKK/YPG would kill/murder/torture you is way shorter then the equivalent list for other organisations directly active in the Syrian Civil War. They do not murder people just because of ethnicity or religion. Good? No. Least bad? Yes. Some musings indiciate that Russia is trying to get Assad to at least deliver symbolic help to Kobane, which ironically enough is difficult due to aerial operations because Assad (not without reason) thinks that his planes would get shot down if they would fly into the direction of the Turkish border. Other then that, I earlier alluded to a Russian Civil War, or 7 years war against Prussia, dynamic when a big pseudo coalition tries to fight a highly determined and unified actor. You are seeing the waiting games in Kobane. Only with even more actors waiting on each other while IS kills Kurds then I expected, and I am a bit of a pessimist.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:39
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:"Libertarian Socialist" I know that during the Spanish civil war it meant (usually just "libertarian") an anarchist, usually a Catalan anarcho-syndicalist, if you don't want to go for the modern meaning.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:45
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the Middle East: a series of compromises
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Oct 7, 2014 18:46
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Randarkman posted:I know that during the Spanish civil war it meant (usually just "libertarian") an anarchist, usually a Catalan anarcho-syndicalist, if you don't want to go for the modern meaning. Basically the same, the historical meaning of libertarian in a sense. PKK got it from Bookchin.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:46
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Nckdictator posted:Not sure how accurate this is but it is fairly relevant. It is pretty wrong. PKKs/YPGs war goal was, if not seperatism and independence, then at least broad ranging autonomy. FSA said no, Islamists said no, Assad said "hmm maybe" but of course he cant be trusted. The Kurds dont have much of a reason to die for the FSA in Aleppo, and long term, a Sunni regime would have less incentives to accomodate Kurds then an Alawi or Shia or Christian regime would. Syrias goverment typically had a "lets be a tiny bit less dickish towards the Kurds then our neighbours are, so that the Peshmerga/PKK/whoever gently caress someone else not us" policy, and kind of sticked to it for a pretty long time. It was also easy to maintain because Iraq or Turkey were pretty intensily dickish towards Kurds, so being less dickish was a low bar to cross. SAA commanders were actually viewing Syrian Kurdistan as a buffer between them and a possible Turkish invasion. Turkey is propably willing to invade the IS, but only after the IS finished off the Kurds. You could kinda draw a comparison between Kobane and the Warsaw Uprising (Stalin had incentives to wait until the Waffen SS finished butchering the Armia Krajova), although whoever is commanding the Turks has a lot less military excuses for not intervening then the Soviets had at Warsaw 44.
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Oct 7, 2014 18:49
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Thanks for the correction.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:01
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:"Libertarian Socialist"  Anarcho history time  It has become a popular expression with socialists of all stripes who oppose party and state dictatorship. Usually anarchists, who also find the term useful to distinguish them from non-anarchists who want to claim the title (see Anarcho-capitalism and other such oxymorons), and also as a way to escape the negative connotations of anarchism, after insurrectionist anarchists shot a lot of presidents and other people back in around the year 1900. E: ack, beaten like a member of POUM in a catalonian barrack. Tias fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 19:06
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"Libertarian Socialist" and Nationalist are not mutually exclusive categories, it is a bad comic. Also Turkey was pretty friendly with Assad for a long time as well and their part of NATO.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:08
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Tias posted:So, everyone in my facebook feed who are remotely left-leaning post shittons of pictures of female YPG fighters, like it's the second coming of Marx or something. It's ideologically sound IDF chick fetishization. Not complicated.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:09
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E: ^^^ Haha, right. Makes sense, really. ^^^ Most who identify as libertarian socialists are opposed to national liberation movements, as they usually just replace colonialist elites with nationalist ones. This is a derail, though.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:09
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Ardennes posted:it is a bad comic. GMiL is a bad comic, yes.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:25
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:GMiL is a bad comic, yes. I will take your word for it, but specifically that panel. quote:Most who identify as libertarian socialists are opposed to national liberation movements, as they usually just replace colonialist elites with nationalist ones. This is a derail, though. Usually they are not actually part of that specific identity and their struggle though. I could see the PKK for example disagreeing. Also, for example the EZLN, is another case. Ardennes fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 19:26
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Kurdistan in Turkey. Erciş to be exact. 
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Oct 7, 2014 19:28
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Part of the reason that the PKK uses women is to gain access to half of the Kurdish population in a patriarchical society. A kind of community outreach to an otherwise inaccessible part of society. I get the impression that the women fighters in the YPG are not primary fighters but are used in a pinch. I have seen them cooking for the guys though, talking on the radio, and standing around much more than I have seen them shooting. Though that is shifting in kobane because of necessity maybe. The women also fight in the YPJ Star or whatever it is called, it is an all women unit. So apparently there is some perceived need to separate the sexes. I am not entirely convinced that the YPG/PKK have a modern feminist view of female empowerment. It seems kind of provincial.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:29
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:GMiL is a bad comic, yes. I thought it was funny.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:40
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Speaking of Kurds, Foreign Policy just put out an awesome piece detailing the US relationship with the KNC in the early days, and with the YPG moving forward when it became clear the KNC weren't going to get any influence. Source is Robert Ford, so it's legit. http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articl...campaign=buffer
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Oct 7, 2014 19:41
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What is a realistic peace for the middle east? I don't feel that the US is doing dick over there except wasting our money. Iraq didn't seem too interested in being a real, non-corrupt state. Turkey is twiddling their thumbs because others from outside the region are doing it for them. Is the concern from the west that if one of these groups gets enough footing that they won't be contained to the middle east anymore? Disclaimer: I have a much, much, much simpler view of the middle east and world politics than probably anyone else in this thread. Please don't be too hard on me.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:43
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Torpor posted:Part of the reason that the PKK uses women is to gain access to half of the Kurdish population in a patriarchical society. A kind of community outreach to an otherwise inaccessible part of society. I get the impression that the women fighters in the YPG are not primary fighters but are used in a pinch. I have seen them cooking for the guys though, talking on the radio, and standing around much more than I have seen them shooting. Though that is shifting in kobane because of necessity maybe. The women also fight in the YPJ Star or whatever it is called, it is an all women unit. So apparently there is some perceived need to separate the sexes. I am not entirely convinced that the YPG/PKK have a modern feminist view of female empowerment. It seems kind of provincial. FYI, the US and Australia only started allowing female infantry(/other combat troops) in the last five years, and many western countries still don't.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:46
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Volkerball posted:Kurdistan in Turkey. Erciş to be exact. what's happening here?
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Oct 7, 2014 19:50
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Faustian Bargain posted:What is a realistic peace for the middle east? Anyone who says they know the pasth to peace in the Middle East is lying to you.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:50
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toe knee hand posted:FYI, the US and Australia only started allowing female infantry(/other combat troops) in the last five years, and many western countries still don't. It's a lot more common in the middle east then people realize, though. Qaddafi had female bodyguards, the regime and ISIS both have female units, and noted progressive power China does as well.  The China thing is through private companies, so it's not really a government policy, but I'll take any excuse to post pictures of Chinese bodyguard ladies getting glassed. Randarkman posted:what's happening here? Riots against Turkey.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:52
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Volkerball posted:Speaking of Kurds, Foreign Policy just put out an awesome piece detailing the US relationship with the KNC in the early days, and with the YPG moving forward when it became clear the KNC weren't going to get any influence. Source is Robert Ford, so it's legit. Goddamn the State Department is incompetent. Edit: I mean getting Barzani to invade Syria makes more sense than supporting Barzani's political party with megaphones when they are getting literally shot out of Syria by the PYD. Torpor fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Oct 7, 2014 |
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Oct 7, 2014 19:54
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TheOtherContraGuy posted:Anyone who says they know the pasth to peace in the Middle East is lying to you. Yeah innocent people are being killed, I get that, but I don't think it's ever going to change so what is the point exactly? Again I'm probably very uninformed about this; that's why I'm asking.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:55
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Volkerball posted:It's a lot more common in the middle east then people realize, though. Qaddafi had female bodyguards, the regime and ISIS both have female units, and noted progressive power China does as well. That's a Norwegian flag on her uniform, though.
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Oct 7, 2014 19:58
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Randarkman posted:That's a Norwegian flag on her uniform, though. The photo is also described as quote:An instructor from the Tianjiao Special Guard/Security Consultant Ltd. Co, smashes a bottle over a female recruit's head during a training session for China's first female bodyguards in Beijing January 13, 2012. According to the company, the training session consists of 20 women, mostly college graduates, who will undergo 8-10 months of training to develop sufficient skills to become security guards. The company will then offer the best trainee a chance to attend the International Security Academy in Israel.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:00
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toe knee hand posted:FYI, the US and Australia only started allowing female infantry(/other combat troops) in the last five years, and many western countries still don't. US doesn't allow female infantry
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Oct 7, 2014 20:00
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TheOtherContraGuy posted:Anyone who says they know the path to peace in the Middle East is lying to you. I mean, enough H-bombs will make anywhere pretty peaceful.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:00
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Brown Moses posted:The photo is also described as Weird, why the hell would there be a Norwegian flag on that uniform if she isn't Norwegian? The rest (what can be seen) of the uniform does not immediately strike me as Norwegian though.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:02
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Randarkman posted:That's a Norwegian flag on her uniform, though. There's another one with a German flag. Just hand-me-down poo poo I'm guessing. Probably weak rear end bottles for show, but still a sweet pic.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:03
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Faustian Bargain posted:I guess my real question is why should the US and others be so concerned. We have our own problems. It seems to me that the countries in question can't even be bothered to care enough themselves. This has been going on for how many hundreds/thousands of years? Every country has issues of violence going back hundreds/thousands of years.
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Oct 7, 2014 20:06
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