|
NancyPants posted:This could be a stupid question, but...is $400mil a lot for a whole company over the year? The only thing I have to go on really is the profit for the store I work in, which last I knew was around $2.5mil. Technically after long periods of time the bearings on roulette wheels will start to wear causing certain numbers do come up far more often. Some people have made a lot of money knowing this. http://www.pokerplayer365.com/uncategorized-drafts/masterclass-3/ However I'm pretty certain that only applies to earlier roulette wheels, meaning that person is still an idiot. That page also goes into the whole "pattern" thing more too (disproving it of course) for anyone interested. How could people possibly think putting their life savings into a single stock was a good idea? Index funds might not be common knowledge, but diversification surely is.
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 18:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 19:59 |
|
|
Rick Rickshaw posted:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-10-06/apple-sapphire-supplier-breaks Isint that illegal? Pretty sure intentionally devaluing a company to purchase it at a low cost is fraud.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
That is a heartbreaking read but honestly post-Enron I don't understand how a person goes all in on one stock. Greed is all I can come up with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
antiga posted:That is a heartbreaking read but honestly post-Enron I don't understand how a person goes all in on one stock. Greed is all I can come up with. Social proof as well. If so many others on a "knowledgeable" investing forum are doing it, it must be a good idea. Tough lesson to learn I imagine. Sad.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 19:05
|
|
|
A lot of the posters in that thread are saying that there will be lawsuits and that this was definitely fraud because the company (especially 'TG' - I assume that's Thomas Gutierrez, the CEO?) didn't warn the investors of known problems. Is there any truth to that, or are these just despair fueled ravings? Edit: http://appleinsider.com/articles/14...-6-announcement seems to imply there might be something to it, but I have no idea what "Faces Scrutiny" means in real world terms
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 19:19
|
|
|
Giant Isopod posted:A lot of the posters in that thread are saying that there will be lawsuits and that this was definitely fraud because the company (especially 'TG' - I assume that's Thomas Gutierrez, the CEO?) didn't warn the investors of known problems. Is there any truth to that, or are these just despair fueled ravings? I was just about to link that article you just did (about ol' Geets dumping a bunch of stock before the iPhone 6 announcement.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 19:38
|
|
|
Giant Isopod posted:A lot of the posters in that thread are saying that there will be lawsuits and that this was definitely fraud because the company (especially 'TG' - I assume that's Thomas Gutierrez, the CEO?) didn't warn the investors of known problems. Is there any truth to that, or are these just despair fueled ravings. Regardless of whether there will be lawsuits, the money is gone. They're not getting it back.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
BigDave posted:Isint that illegal? Pretty sure intentionally devaluing a company to purchase it at a low cost is fraud. Depends on what the reason is that Apple called their loan. My guess is that GT A couldn't meet milestones and Apple pulled their money. But I bet Apple really wants those patents for the next Iphone and the watch so they can used at a company that can actually produce the numbers they want.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 19:53
|
|
|
Pompous Rhombus posted:I was just about to link that article you just did (about ol' Geets dumping a bunch of stock before the iPhone 6 announcement.) According to the MacRumors article I read on it, the Sept. 8 sale of shares was part of a routine sale that was initiated in March, so it actually has nothing to do with this. Link: http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1325214/000148024814000162/xslF345X03/edgar.xml
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
Even if there is a very successful lawsuit (unlikely) those guys will only recover a tiny fraction of their investments.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 20:49
|
|
|
Tell me if I'm parsing this correctly; so these people invested their entire life savings into the company that provides the sapphire used in iphones and iwatches because OMG APPLE!!!! and then Apple didn't use sapphire in the Iphone 6 because the company couldnt provide enough and now they are declaring bankruptcy, there may or may not have been some sketchy claims about financial solvency of the company from the CEO a few months ago. Am I correct?
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 22:02
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Tell me if I'm parsing this correctly; so these people invested their entire life savings into the company that provides the sapphire used in iphones and iwatches because OMG APPLE!!!! and then Apple didn't use sapphire in the Iphone 6 because the company couldnt provide enough and now they are declaring bankruptcy, there may or may not have been some sketchy claims about financial solvency of the company from the CEO a few months ago. Basically, yes. There's also the CEO claiming he'd have 400 millions cash on hand (not profit, cash) at the end of the year, which is not a sign of a well managed company. Helloooo opportunity cost. (Pay down debts, invest in capital, pay out dividends, some loving thing - why would you keep 400 mills on hand? Unless that's like 3 months of operating capital, in which case lol)
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 22:38
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Tell me if I'm parsing this correctly; so these people invested their entire life savings into the company that provides the sapphire used in iphones and iwatches because OMG APPLE!!!! and then Apple didn't use sapphire in the Iphone 6 because the company couldnt provide enough and now they are declaring bankruptcy, there may or may not have been some sketchy claims about financial solvency of the company from the CEO a few months ago. Yes, basically. Don't forget that A) the terms of Apple's prepayment were brutal for GTAT and B) GTAT had identified repayment risk explicitly, so it's not like investors can say that GTAT concealed repayment risk of default.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
Not to derail from this fascinating implosion, but if you think roulette players are bad about searching for patterns, spend some time at a crowded baccarat table. The game is nothing more than effectively flipping coins, with a 5% commission.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 23:08
|
|
|
I used to work with someone whose family would record the state lotto numbers every day. They'd try to figure out what number hadn't popped out of the lottery machines the longest and play that. They also had a dream book and would play the numbers associated with that dream's themes. This is apparently not a new idea.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 23:15
|
|
|
Whoa what a pack of dummies. That is a forum of the market "noise" referred to in finance literature.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 23:40
|
|
|
Japanese companies usually keep hefty balances. It's not that unusual. The news articles about this say Apple didn't call the loan and they were surprised by the filing as well. Good laughs though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 8, 2014 23:47
|
|
|
I like to consider myself a good person, but I get some serious schadenfreude when I hear about idiots losing their money in stupid ways. Especially if they post about how smart they're being right before they lose it all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 00:09
|
|
|
Chaucer posted:I used to work with someone whose family would record the state lotto numbers every day. They'd try to figure out what number hadn't popped out of the lottery machines the longest and play that. A guy in our neighborhood had a 3-ring binder filled with lottery results and he would spend 6 hours/day with it on the hood of his car trying to find "patterns".
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
EugeneJ posted:A guy in our neighborhood had a 3-ring binder filled with lottery results and he would spend 6 hours/day with it on the hood of his car trying to find "patterns". If only that time and energy was focused into doing work to make money. Sure this whole working productively thing is boring but if gives you a higher chance of ending up rich than wasting money on gambling.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 01:17
|
|
|
Devian666 posted:If only that time and energy was focused into doing work to make money. Sure this whole working productively thing is boring but if gives you a higher chance of ending up rich than wasting money on gambling. Maybe he could have done it with stock prices or something instead and actually gone somewhere with it(probably not).
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 01:38
|
|
|
There are people in that same GTAT thread recommending that the other forumgoers short specific stocks. Why, oh why, would you recommend such a thing to someone who just lost their shirt in the market?  "Why restrict yourself to investments that hit zero when you can have investments whose losses can be indefinite??"
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 06:45
|
|
|
melon cat posted:There are people in that same GTAT thread recommending that the other forumgoers short specific stocks. Why, oh why, would you recommend such a thing to someone who just lost their shirt in the market? If someone is already doomed to bankruptcy, might as well double down while you can still get credit.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 08:29
|
|
|
VideoTapir posted:If someone is already doomed to bankruptcy, might as well double down while you can still get credit. There are provisions for obtaining debt in bad faith, but I think trying to recoup investment losses by betting bigger than ever and as hard as you can wouldn't fall under this. Makes sense to me - once you're done anyway, keep hitting that doubling cube and maybe you'll win. In fact, as long as there's no upper limit, you will in fact win by doubling your bet every time you lose. It's a common scam, where sites will offer day traders ultra short term bets on the direction a particular symbol moves. The strategy can work for a while until you hit the site's maximum bid price and lose.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 14:00
|
|
|
This thread makes me both feel real good and real bad. Good because I always find people in worse situations than me due to their inability to really understand risks Bad cause I am mid twenties and no retirement savings or much savings of any kind, not because I don't care but still finishing up college after a few wasted years in a lovely Major
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 14:29
|
|
|
pig slut lisa posted:The roulette thing was my reworking of the dumb post that Smugly Dismissed quoted about picking hot stocks. Nobody actually said that thing about roulette. The problem with this thread is that it was completely believable that someone would think that way.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 14:46
|
|
|
Ron Paul Atreides posted:This thread makes me both feel real good and real bad. If you get a decent job at like 28 and live like a college student, you can still easily retire by like 50 with proper budgeting, without even going hardcore MMM style.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 16:15
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:If you get a decent job at like 28 and live like a college student, you can still easily retire by like 50 with proper budgeting, without even going hardcore MMM style. I agree, if by "live like a college student" you mean don't get married, don't have kids, but split a 3 bedroom house near campus with 4 other people. Actually, you could probably retire at 40 like that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:09
|
|
|
antiga posted:That is a heartbreaking read but honestly post-Enron I don't understand how a person goes all in on one stock. Greed is all I can come up with. That greed will probably drive some of those idiots to throw what they have left in a stock like LAKE. Because Alex Jones says Ebola is gonna kill us all. Thanks Obama!
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:10
|
|
|
Why wouldn't you be able to get married? They said "without going hardcore MMM style" and he lives much better than that and has a kid. Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 17:16 on Oct 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
Jeffrey posted:Why wouldn't you be able to get married? Because it costs $40 to get married and that's simply out of the budget if you want to retire by 35! MUST SAVE EVERY LAST PENNY.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:14
|
|
|
Living like a college student sucks rear end that's why it's called "living like a college student" and not just "living".
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:18
|
|
|
Purposely living in squalor when you're young so that you can be rich when you're old is bad with money. I'd prefer to live life (which costs money) when I'm young and have less disposable income when I'm old and physically useless. The point of retirement savings is to maintain your current lifestyle, not penny-pinch in the hopes of securing a better lifestyle.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:20
|
|
|
cowofwar posted:Purposely living in squalor when you're young so that you can be rich when you're old is bad with money. I'd prefer to live life (which costs money) when I'm young and have less disposable income when I'm old and physically useless. It's a lot easier to "live life" (which doesn't imply spending money to me but okay) when you aren't a wage slave living under the constant threat of losing your job and being genuinely harmed by it. I dunno I probably shouldn't go down this derail but MMM doesn't live in anything close to squalor.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:29
|
|
|
canyoneer posted:I agree, if by "live like a college student" you mean don't get married, don't have kids, but split a 3 bedroom house near campus with 4 other people. Bullshit, if you're making 80-100k and you live off of 35k (easily doable without living "in squalor" you would have no problem at all retiring in about 20 years. Yes kids, etc. will raise those costs but then again you should be getting raises in that time too. quote:The point of retirement savings is to maintain your current lifestyle, not penny-pinch in the hopes of securing a better lifestyle. The point of retirement savings is to one day not need to work. Whatever that means is up to you as an individual. That is the only universal definition. Learning to not automatically increase your expenses to your raises isn't necessarily "penny-pinching." Personally, while I'll be working until about 55 or so, every year I have to get up early to go do what someone else wants me to do is awful. Freedom from that while still maintaining a fairly comfortable life would be the greatest thing ever. The dude above doesn't need to live on rice and beans. I was only saying that if he controls his lifestyle inflation, he can still retire comfortably and fairly early. Mid-20s is plenty of time to start. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Oct 9, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:47
|
|
|
cowofwar posted:Purposely living in squalor when you're young so that you can be rich when you're old is bad with money. I'd prefer to live life (which costs money) when I'm young and have less disposable income when I'm old and physically useless. That's kinda of a false dichotomy though. The amount of austerity now required to retire early is a sliding target based on your current income. That's what can make this thread so frustratingly derailable too: whether a financial decision is an acceptable luxury is mostly a matter of scale and anything between "completely sound" and "sight unseen secondhand yacht on credit" is argument fodder.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 17:51
|
|
|
Once you get a certain amount of money, your lifestyle becomes a dickwaving contest that's hard to remove yourself from. The rich people in my family could easily retire today at 40 or 50, but keeping up with the Joneses does not allow that. Telling them to stop paying $50,000/year for a country club membership or that their yearly $30,000 home re-decorating isn't necessary is like telling a baby they can't have candy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 18:02
|
|
|
Nail Rat posted:Bullshit, if you're making 80-100k and you live off of 35k (easily doable without living "in squalor" you would have no problem at all retiring in about 20 years. Yes kids, etc. will raise those costs but then again you should be getting raises in that time too. Who the gently caress makes 80-100k straight out of college? A very, very small percentage of all grads I would guess...
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 18:04
|
|
|
Spermy Smurf posted:Who the gently caress makes 80-100k straight out of college? A very, very small percentage of all grads I would guess... To be fair the conversation started about someone who is 28, though that's pretty rare too. I'd wager that poster talks to lots of CS majors. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 19:59 |
|
|
EugeneJ posted:$50,000/year for a country club membership Wow. I had no idea this was so expensive. I guess the number of members at each is typically pretty low though, isn't it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 9, 2014 18:29
|
|
