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Rannos22 posted:Its cool that whenever something is proven to be horrifically and irreparably wrong with D&D Next its supporters play the "this thread is nothing but negativity!" card.  Grimpond posted:I've always wanted to try a paladin but the strict alignment code and the general experience of my group is that playing a paladin (in previous editions) is basically going to slow the game to a chug as the paladin and the other players argue about codes of chivalry and blah blah blah blah. Oath of Vengeance man, it's your new best friend. Stomp the poo poo out of any fool stupid enough to cross you, and make him cry out for his sins. There is no more chivalry issue. At least not for these. In fact, you're more likely to drat yourself in pursuit of justice than to ignore the wicked.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:53
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Generic Octopus posted:Yeah, they don't really need to pick out a god or domain or anything.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:56
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Grimpond posted:I've always wanted to try a paladin but the strict alignment code and the general experience of my group is that playing a paladin (in previous editions) is basically going to slow the game to a chug as the paladin and the other players argue about codes of chivalry and blah blah blah blah.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:56
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Grimpond posted:Do you guys roll for stats or use arrays? My DM insists on using 4d6 drop lowest, but he understands that low rolls can gimp a character and lets us rolls sets of attributes until we get one we like. I think the guy running it is planning on a 4d6 in order roll (yes, I know) for character creation. We rolled for our current 4E characters back when we started the campaign, before we appreciated how much the math of the game depended on you not, and managed to make it work out. Considering how Next looks, I suspect the numbers don't really matter much, so I am not going to worry overly much about it. I did mention to the DM that he probably needs to keep an eye on the encounters if we roll, but that was before the MM was released and I thought it might matter. Power Player posted:What's the skeleton gimmick again? Play as a Barbarian-Wizard, have a skeleton horde available to call upon in times of need. Like when I don't know what is in that room. The problem that I currently have is, if we are rolling in order, I don't know what a good gimmick will be if the good stat is in one of the other 4 abilities. Anyone have something good for Strength or Constitution?
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Oct 8, 2014 19:57
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Power Player posted:Hmm. I'm thinking Devotion, yeah. I really want to do a sword-and-board kinda guy but I'm not wowed by anything that isn't Great Weapon Fighting. +2 on damage rolls isn't the best, I'd probably be better off just going with another point of AC. The protection one is garbage because it only lets you do it once per turn.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:57
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ascendance posted:Not running GWF isn't terrible. Most of your damage as a paladin comes from smites and things anyway.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:58
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ascendance posted:Wow, why would people not want to wade through a morass of negativity about a game they are playing? Especially when said negative Nellies don't even play the game. I played D&D Next and found it to have next to no value as a unique, enjoyable game. On the other hand, its value as unintentional black comedy is immense, especially when its supporters start demanding a loving politically correct echo chamber.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:01
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Power Player posted:So dueling or the +1 AC one?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:03
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Really Pants posted:I played D&D Next and found it to have next to no value as a unique, enjoyable game. On the other hand, its value as unintentional black comedy is immense, especially when its supporters start demanding a loving politically correct echo chamber. That's a pretty strong statement. My limited (one session) experience is that it's pretty good as a basic D&D game if you don't want to go whole-hog on the MMO-light 4e and want something more recent than 3.5. There might be better options out there (Pathfinder, I assume?) and 5e has got some big problems, but it's still fantasy roleplaying and that excuses a lot of sins.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:04
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Really Pants posted:I played D&D Next and found it to have next to no value as a unique, enjoyable game. On the other hand, its value as unintentional black comedy is immense, especially when its supporters start demanding a loving politically correct echo chamber.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:06
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ocrumsprug posted:The problem that I currently have is, if we are rolling in order, I don't know what a good gimmick will be if the good stat is in one of the other 4 abilities. Anyone have something good for Strength or Constitution? This thread is like the only place I have heard of rolling stats in order. I like rolling for stats, usually make some really fun characters but rolling in order just seems terribad in every way. Where did it even come from? Was there a rule set in one of the previous versions? Edit: vvvv Ah, I only got into D&D at the tail end of 2nds life and we jumped straight into 3rd from there. Cainer fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 20:07
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Cainer posted:This thread is like the only place I have heard of rolling stats in order. I like rolling for stats, usually make some really fun characters but rolling in order just seems terribad in every way. Where did it even come from? Was there a rule set in one of the previous versions?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:09
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Arcturas posted:if you don't want to go whole-hog on the MMO-light 4e This is why you might not see a +5e thread. That and the two contributers to 5e we all know and love. gently caress them and their game. They deserve nothing positive.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:16
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Really Pants posted:especially when its supporters start demanding a loving politically correct echo chamber. I know right? Almost like the 4th edition thread.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:21
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Generic Octopus posted:I'd lean toward Devotion just because of the "+Cha to hit" thing it has, but I also haven't looked much at what each Oath gets as spells so I'd look at those and see what you prefer. Honestly not wowed much by most of the Oath-specific features. Yeah, the +Cha to hit is gravy since it stacks with the fact that the paladin is one of the only classes in the game who can trample the flattened math by double-stacking stats with Aura of Protection (adds your Charisma modifier to all saves of you and any allies within 10 ft, or 30 ft at level 18). Aura of Protection means that at bare minimum every single save you or an ally within range makes is as good as your Charisma modifier, while any actual investment in save proficiency + good ability score means that you can push your save numbers into "can succeed on a 2 or 3", especially if you can boost your Charisma modifier up to +5 early on before enemy proficiency bonuses have a chance to catch up. They took Divine Grace (already an excellent paladin feature in 3e/PF) and allowed you to share it with allies as an uncapped additional bonus in a game where those are exceptionally rare.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:33
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ascendance posted:Treating it as unintentional black comedy is not actually useful to those who play the game. In fact, you just come across like other flavors of self-entitled jerkwad - I.e. MRAs, libertarians, people who insist on wearing collanders in ID photos, etc. Since 5e tries to be every edition at once and does nothing that an earlier edition would not do better, honest advice for players will inevitably boil down to "play something else." Talmonis posted:I know right? Almost like the 4th edition thread. 4e thread posters will happily agree that combat can take way too loving long, or that skill challenges suck as-written, or that there's way too much feat bloat, or that there shouldn't be math-tax feats, or any of a million other flaws. On the other hand they've decided that "4E IS WOW," as an argument, has about as much merit as "If we evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" so obviously they've all just drunk the Kool-Aid.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:33
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Talmonis posted:Hell, the 4th edition thread specifically bars making GBS threads on it. Talmonis posted:I know right? Almost like the 4th edition thread.  The 4e thread spent pages upon pages upon pages making GBS threads on 4e, be it the dumb magic item treadmill, pointless legacy poo poo like ability scores or the feat galore, the math falling apart unless you pay your taxes, or the subpar/boring classes. In fact, it is pretty telling how quick 'pro-5e' goons are to resort to tone arguments or outright fabrications like those above every time someone criticizes their precious D&D, while the 4e thread is chugging along discussing all that edition's faults and shortcomings. Littlefinger fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 20:34
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ProfessorCirno posted:This is why you might not see a +5e thread. Let's call the problem what it is.. That the two loudest assholes in the OSR were essentially bribed to STFU about 5e. But what are you going to do other than call attention to the problem? Are you going to yank out and throw away your Intel processor since they backpedaled on GamersGate? It also doesn't mean that because I play 5e, I endorse or support anything your favorite two people have done.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:36
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Really Pants posted:4e thread posters will happily agree that combat can take way too loving long, or that skill challenges suck as-written, or that there's way too much feat bloat, or that there shouldn't be math-tax feats, or any of a million other flaws. On the other hand they've decided that "4E IS WOW," as an argument, has about as much merit as "If we evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys?" so obviously they've all just drunk the Kool-Aid.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:37
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ascendance posted:and I'm not going to sit around and argue that encounter XP is functional and working either. Or that non hand crossbow wielding fighters are awesome and working as intended. I just don't see any reason to treat it like some kind of crime when people go "you know, there are other games where both of these things are actually true."
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Oct 8, 2014 20:39
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ascendance posted:It also doesn't mean that because I play 5e, I endorse or support anything your favorite two people have done. If you paid for the books, I've got some bad news for you...
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Oct 8, 2014 20:41
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Really Pants posted:I just don't see any reason to treat it like some kind of crime when people go "you know, there are other games where both of these things are actually true."
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Oct 8, 2014 20:43
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moths posted:If you paid for the books, I've got some bad news for you...
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Oct 8, 2014 20:44
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Really Pants posted:I just don't see any reason to treat it like some kind of crime when people go "you know, there are other games where both of these things are actually true." I just find it funny to keep reading things that I would have angrily posted 5 years ago, before I had ever tried a non-D&D RPG. Then I broadened my experience and understanding, and I can't go back.  RPPR Actual Play and RPPR Community Actual Play. They've gone to the trouble of trying a few dozen different systems and documenting their experiences - they are my Anti-Grog (tm) To anyone without experience outside of D&D, just give any non-D&D (non-RIFTS  ) episode a listen. It might give a little context to why we're picking apart 5E.Edit: gently caress it, listen to some of their 46-episode 4E game and learn why we're picking some of this poo poo apart
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Oct 8, 2014 20:45
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Littlefinger posted:
dwarf74 posted:Now, for the MEGA-RULE. This is the 4th Edition thread. Do not discuss previous editions here, especially as it relates to their relative merit. Or, to put it more succinctly, NO EDITION WARS. End of line.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:50
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Weirdly nothing in your second quote contradicts anything in your first quote?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:51
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Weirdly nothing in your second quote contradicts anything in your first quote? Most of this thread has been whining that it's not 4th edition with errata.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:53
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Talmonis posted:Most of this thread has been whining that it's not 4th edition with errata. Most of this thread has been angry that it is 3rd edition with errata? Edit: Moved down. SageNytell fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 20:54
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People on this thread talk to me like I'm some kind of person who has never played any game other than D&D. I mean, I'm talked down to because the core assumption among many posters is that the only reason why I am playing 5e is because of some irrational, misbegotten brand loyalty. This is really not true. I'm not going to post my gaming resume for your perusal, but I have played and run a lot of games, including 4e.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:55
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SageNytell posted:Most of this thread has been angry that it is 3rd edition with errata?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:56
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ascendance posted:I mean, I'm talked down to because the core assumption among many posters is that the only reason why I am playing 5e is because of some irrational, misbegotten brand loyalty. You literally asked for a new thread where being mean to 5e is against the rules. What did you expect?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:57
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SageNytell posted:Most of this thread has been angry that it is 3rd edition with errata? Which are where most of my complaints with it come from as well, but instead let's all whine more about how "5th edition supporters" are the true second coming of evil. In the 5th edition thread. And for the record, 3.5 was the worst.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:57
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ocrumsprug posted:I think the guy running it is planning on a 4d6 in order roll (yes, I know) for character creation. We rolled for our current 4E characters back when we started the campaign, before we appreciated how much the math of the game depended on you not, and managed to make it work out. Considering how Next looks, I suspect the numbers don't really matter much, so I am not going to worry overly much about it. I did mention to the DM that he probably needs to keep an eye on the encounters if we roll, but that was before the MM was released and I thought it might matter. I can kind of understand wanting to roll for stats, but in order?  Why the hell would you do that unless you were deliberately going into this as a clusterfuck comedy session.Arcturas posted:That's a pretty strong statement. My limited (one session) experience is that it's pretty good as a basic D&D game if you don't want to go whole-hog on the MMO-light 4e and want something more recent than 3.5. There might be better options out there (Pathfinder, I assume?) and 5e has got some big problems, but it's still fantasy roleplaying and that excuses a lot of sins. Straight-up, I don't see why you'd ever choose 5th edition as your "basic, simpler than 4E" game when the OSR is a thing.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:59
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Well they have been pretty abrasive and eager to bitch about NOTED MMO CRIMINAL 4E. In the Next thread.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:00
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I can tell you why I'm angry, and it's not limited to 4E, which I eventually came to appreciate but never got to play. I'm angry that the newest version of D&D is not new, that besides advantage/disadvantage no new ground has been broken, that we're back into solved problems. I don't need another 4e from the 5th edition of D&D, I need the newest edition of the unfortunately flagship game of RPGs to bring something new to the table. And I didn't get that, and that makes it more difficult to bring in new people and new viewpoints past an old, stagnant, broken 'starting point'. Stagnancy is a good word for what I'm angry about. Malignancy might fit as well.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:00
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Talmonis posted:Most of this thread has been whining that it's not 4th edition with errata. Most of the criticisms of 5E stand just fine on their own without invoking comparisons to 4E, so I'd fully support a "no edition wars" rule for a 5E thread too.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:08
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ascendance posted:People on this thread talk to me like I'm some kind of person who has never played any game other than D&D. I'm not asking for your gaming resume and I wouldn't care to see it. I'm not trying to talk down to anyone; I understand that there are a fair few people in the thread with a lesser degree of non-D&D or even general RPG experience and I believe in giving context for my concerns. I appreciate that you want to discuss aspects of 5E that you find constructive - do it. It can't hurt anything for you to do that, but I would be concerned about creating an environment in which analysis and criticism are discouraged, because I find both things to be valuable.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:10
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Hahahahaha yes a tagline saying "don't bring up previous editions" is totally the same as the tagline you want that says "NO NEGATIVITY AT ALL, ABOUT ANYTHING." In fact it's super telling that the complaint actually comes down to "Why aren't I allowed to call 4e a dumb babby MMO but YOU'RE allowed to critique the math in 5e...?!
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Oct 8, 2014 21:12
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Most of the stuff people talk about in this thread are actual problems that would be problems regardless of whether 4e existed or not. The hosed up monster math, the terrible spell organization and the return of caster supremacy, for example. Also the two assholes that get credited in the book. I agree we should talk less about 4e, for or against. Especially since this is already a no-edition-wars zone. Edit: Covok posted:Now, I suppose it's time to refer to the elephant in the room. This is not the place to have edition wars about D&D. If you must do so, please use this topic instead. Nihilarian fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 21:15
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gradenko_2000 posted:I can kind of understand wanting to roll for stats, but in order? Basically we are all old enough to have played Basic, and have been playing together for long enough that there is no concerns about being useless (though the unfortunately stat'd Shaman one guy did roll at one point was close) or the DM being a dick for the sake of being a dick. Plus we all played enough Living Greyhawk and other RPGA campaigns with stat arrays so we would rather change it up. It is only one of three or so campaigns we have going at any time, and it is basically sit around and eat pizza time and roll dice in any case. We may also be assuming it will be in roll in order since most of the group is looking at Next like the throwback it is. The DM is pretty excited though, so there will be a fine balancing act between having fun with it, and throwing the farce in his face.
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Oct 8, 2014 21:25
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