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Black August posted:Why would you ever want to buy and run a restaurant. Ever. Why. Here's an idea -- shatter your own knees; I mean loving PULP them with a claw hammer, while fully awake and sober and without anesthesia. Do it very slowly and deliberately. Don't stop until you could bottle it and sell it as a fine jelly. Then spend $17,000 on new replacement knees. I kind of like owning my own restaurant.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:53
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But what is the status of your knees?
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Oct 9, 2014 03:13
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Republicans posted:Ghee is typically cooked a bit longer so the milk solids caramelize before straining. It's in-between clarified and brown butter. I saw "all-vegetable ghee" in a store the other day. Not sure what that is.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:47
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CommonShore posted:I saw "all-vegetable ghee" in a store the other day. Not sure what that is. Fake vegan poo poo.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:50
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Errant Gin Monks posted:I kind of like owning my own restaurant. You're a Gin Monk. You cheat and have powers beyond our understanding.
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Oct 9, 2014 03:53
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CommonShore posted:I saw "all-vegetable ghee" in a store the other day. Not sure what that is. Probably some sort of margarine with caramel flavoring in it. Gross.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:15
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Radio Help posted:Probably some sort of margarine with caramel flavoring in it. Gross. Reminds me of the person who saw a jar of hollandaise at a store awhile back and was asking if it was any good.
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Oct 9, 2014 05:22
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please young people do not go to culinary school that is the Stupidest Thing go to real college and work in a restaurant. or don't go to real college and work in a restaurant. or go to a real college and don't work in a restaurant. or don't go to a real college and don't work in a restaurant. all of these are probably better. the value of culinary school was firmly impressed upon me when I applied for my first kitchen job. it was at a fancy vietnamese fusion restaurant, I was very excited and eager to try out cooking. I was 17 or 18 maybe. the chef asked me if I had a culinary degree. I said no, I don't have any sort of degree. he asked if I could break down a chicken. I said yes of course. he asked if I was good with fileting whole fish. I said I don't really have much experience with whole fish. he asked if I had knives, I was like yeah? an interview later and I was garde manger, with literally 0 professional kitchen experience under my belt. some prep cooks were le cordon bleu students. they got fired, I kept my job. v  v the restaurant tanked after 6 months, so I'm not really bragging. the chef probably had no business taking a chance on a dumb kid like me. but the fact that he did over all these loving idiot culinary school twerps has really stuck with me over the years. thanks chef, you got me into the industry and probably changed my life more than a lot of other people who should have had much more of an influence on me <3 that said now I do IT work and make 99999999999 more money than I ever would have cooking food. plan is to one day own a restaurant, using all my extra money. I think it's a much more rational approach to the itch to work in the industry. $8-10/hr is just rough. my girl has had similar life experiences. she went to school for theater and wanted to be a writer. years of school and a couple semi-worthless degrees later, she was making not-very-much teaching english 102 at some local colleges. she had stopped writing for pleasure - the grind completely chewed her out. she went back to school to get a law degree, and now has a nice job doing challenging writing things where she feels valued making a very not-poo poo wage. she writes fiction in her (very non-existent) spare time. dunno, just my two cents. finding a balance between doing what you want to do, and not getting completely shat on by capitalism is a very hard thing. but again, I'd encourage a lot of reflection on the topic before even thinking twice about enrolling in a culinary program. mindphlux fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 07:30
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mindphlux posted:that said now I do IT work and make 99999999999 more money than I ever would have cooking food. plan is to one day own a restaurant, using all my extra money. I think it's a much more rational approach to the itch to work in the industry. $8-10/hr is just rough. Hahhahahahah mindphlux this is amazing, you just described my career arc word for word. Restaurants as a kid, IT until I made 6 figures, saved up money and opened a restaurant and god drat do I love it from this position. Also as a Gin Monk I do have a lot of issues. I actually love cleaning a flat top. It's like closing zen. Take 10-15 minutes with a grill brick and stupid hot oil scrubbing until it's perfect. It's my nightly end of the work day ritual that just cements that it's time to go home. I love it.
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Oct 9, 2014 08:42
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Errant Gin Monks posted:Hahhahahahah mindphlux this is amazing, you just described my career arc word for word. Restaurants as a kid, IT until I made 6 figures, saved up money and opened a restaurant and god drat do I love it from this position. how old are you now out of curiosity? I've just hit my business stride in IT, debating on how long to ride the gravy train before I switch gears. I think it will probably just become abundantly clear at some point...
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Oct 9, 2014 10:30
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mindphlux posted:how old are you now out of curiosity? I've just hit my business stride in IT, debating on how long to ride the gravy train before I switch gears. I think it will probably just become abundantly clear at some point... I'm 35. I started IT at 25 and moved up pretty quickly but I got lucky with good opportunities. I also had experience in the navy which opened a few doors to me when I got out at 25. I did 2 years a phone jockey while I did programming websites on the side. Moved from that to internal IT support for a giant company then to a museum as the IT manager. 6 years there before moving to a company I helped found in 2006 in my spare time as the director of client services a year ago. Ditched that with a good severance package and used it and my savings to launch my new place. I should have a food truck by beginning of next year to implement phase 2 of my plan. Edit: getting my PM certification really launched my career trajectory upward in IT. I just ended up hating it all the time, I was tired of dealing with people on their bad days, at least now I get compliments on my food instead of bitching about their networks. Although my take home pay at the moment is loving nonexistent I love what I am doing. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 10:34
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The better question, Monk, is have you made a dollar. At the end of the day, other than personal satisfaction, has owning your own restaurant netted you anything you can actually call positive income?
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Oct 9, 2014 15:47
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mindphlux posted:dunno, just my two cents. finding a balance between doing what you want to do, and not getting completely shat on by capitalism is a very hard thing. Wisdom. 
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Oct 9, 2014 17:36
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In the past 3 weeks I've worked just under 200 hours, only had 2 days off, and made buckets of money. I am off today, which means I make lunch with delicious things I had in the freezer. HABANERO BBQ PULLED PORK TACOS GET e: they burn SO loving GOOD
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Oct 9, 2014 18:57
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My last job before this one was working as a prep cook. I'd been doing that for almost a year, after spending a year in the dishpit, when I told them I needed more than 9 dollars an hour or it'd be my two weeks. They said the ultimatum made them uncomfortable and fired me over some bullshit, loving me out of my last 3 shifts (aka 200-230 bucks). gently caress 'em. The job I landed this past week is paying me 9.50 to start and I've already got more hours than I did at the last place. For some reason they didn't want me on the line, but they were pushing the lovely new dishwashers onto the line (who then ended up getting paid 9 dollars an hour) with no restaurant experience. I was told that what other people were getting paid was none of my business. Wrong. Jokes on them, I'm starting on the line at my new job and making more money!  The best part about working on the line again is a feeling of "Oh hey, I can still do this poo poo!" Also I've never worked somewhere that's this fancy, so it'll look good on my resume if I can make it through a year at this spot.The last place bought cases of canned black beans. The first thing I was going to do after getting my raise was showing them how they could save somewhere around 2000 dollars a year by using dried black beans. And that's just with the loving black beans, we're not talking about the rest-of-the-loving-menu. Glad I didn't help them. I've considered thinking of a way to gently caress them over to get back at them, but I decided that that restaurant is a little hell deserving of people like them.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:28
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Alobar posted:My last job before this one was working as a prep cook. I'd been doing that for almost a year, after spending a year in the dishpit, when I told them I needed more than 9 dollars an hour or it'd be my two weeks. They said the ultimatum made them uncomfortable and fired me over some bullshit, loving me out of my last 3 shifts (aka 200-230 bucks). gently caress 'em. The job I landed this past week is paying me 9.50 to start and I've already got more hours than I did at the last place. For some reason they didn't want me on the line, but they were pushing the lovely new dishwashers onto the line (who then ended up getting paid 9 dollars an hour) with no restaurant experience. I was told that what other people were getting paid was none of my business. Wrong. Jokes on them, I'm starting on the line at my new job and making more money! Are you always this insufferable or are you just terrible at writing? Like, honestly, it sucks (maybe?) that you got fired for asking for something closer to a living wage, but usually you need to have leverage before you can give them an ultimatum like that if you're not able to negotiate a raise without threatening to walk the way you did.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:34
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:Are you always this insufferable or are you just terrible at writing? I'm terrible at writing. Way to be a dick. Does putting people down make you feel better about yourself? The leverage that I had is that it was a stupid loving job at a lovely loving restaurant and I told them that if they wanted me to make them more money I could, but they'd had to pay me more. They felt pretty comfortable swimming in their pool of poo poo. Three people who had been there a while were just fed up with the bullshit and left in the same week. quote:Like, honestly, it sucks (maybe?) that you got fired for asking for something closer to a living wage.... You're the one asking about being insufferable and being terrible at writing? Jerk.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:51
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Alobar posted:I'm terrible at writing. Way to be a dick. Does putting people down make you feel better about yourself? Your writing is so angry that, if you are the same way in real life, I would absolutely not want to work with you or to have you be in a position where you have to work on a team. quote:The leverage that I had is that it was a stupid loving job at a lovely loving restaurant and I told them that if they wanted me to make them more money I could, but they'd had to pay me more. They felt pretty comfortable swimming in their pool of poo poo. Three people who had been there a while were just fed up with the bullshit and left in the same week. The right answer to having a job this awful is to find something new as soon as possible, not to stay there and continue to be miserable. quote:You're the one asking about being insufferable and being terrible at writing? Jerk. lol
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Oct 9, 2014 19:59
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Ricola, can you expand on leverage in this context?
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Oct 9, 2014 20:07
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Alobar posted:I'm terrible at writing. Way to be a dick. Does putting people down make you feel better about yourself? Aren't you the guy who posted a terrible chili recipe a few years ago? And when people offered feedback you got smug and then got owned by everyone else in the thread?
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Oct 9, 2014 20:17
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Splizwarf posted:Ricola, can you expand on leverage in this context? A dishwasher at a restaurant that treats employees as badly as this one has no leverage, because even if he was a good worker they would be more likely to just fire him than ever set the precedent of giving someone a raise in those circumstances. The best he could hope for is to give them an ultimatum, have them pay him a bit more while they find a replacement, then walk him out the door. The head porter at the French Laundry (who recently accepted a major culinary award on behalf of the restaurant because of how well regarded he is among the staff there) is so well loved and works so hard that he could probably a raise and get it. The amount of leverage you have is dependant on how valuable your work is seen to be by your company, the company's culture, how hard you would be to replace, and probably a few other things. (Might not be the French Laundry, but's one of the big American Michelin Starred ones)
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Oct 9, 2014 20:17
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Liquid Communism posted:The better question, Monk, is have you made a dollar. Considering it's been an entire 5 weeks since I opened, no it hasn't netted me any positive cash flow. It has paid me back 2 thousand dollars thus far. If anyone expects to be making money 5 weeks into a restaurant opening they need to rethink their plans.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:47
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So again, running a place of your own is great... if you're already well off enough that you can afford to work for free.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:09
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Alobar posted:My last job before this one was working as a prep cook. I'd been doing that for almost a year, after spending a year in the dishpit, when I told them I needed more than 9 dollars an hour or it'd be my two weeks. They said the ultimatum made them uncomfortable and fired me over some bullshit, loving me out of my last 3 shifts (aka 200-230 bucks). gently caress 'em. The job I landed this past week is paying me 9.50 to start and I've already got more hours than I did at the last place. For some reason they didn't want me on the line, but they were pushing the lovely new dishwashers onto the line (who then ended up getting paid 9 dollars an hour) with no restaurant experience. I was told that what other people were getting paid was none of my business. Wrong. Jokes on them, I'm starting on the line at my new job and making more money! Ok, let's break this down. 1) Never give your employers an ultimatum like that. It's very, very poor form, and is probably why you got fired. Politely ask for a raise, and if you don't get it, put in your two weeks and find somewhere else that will pay you what you feel like you're worth. All that you did there was burn a bridge. 2) What other people make is none of your business, and asking about it puts managers on edge and will probably get you ghosted or fired. 3) Maybe your previous job used can beans because the labor they saved on not having to soak/cook raw beans offset the cost of buying canned beans. 4) Ricola called you out because you're presenting yourself like the kind of entitled, know-it-all dick that a lot of us have had to work with in the past.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:10
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Liquid Communism posted:So again, running a place of your own is great... if you're already well off enough that you can afford to work for free. Any investment in a business is going to suck for the beginning. You have to plan appropriately or get enough backers to pay yourself the minimum to survive. I'm not saying opening a place is going to make you rich or even well off. But I made a bunch of money in IT and I loving hated it. I would rather make 2 grand a month in my own place and love it. You also have to be smart with your money building up to it. I could have bought a giant 300k McMansion but I bought a 100k small old house for me and the wife, we have the same cars we have had for years all paid off and we don't really go out and do much since we both live at our respective businesses. We planned for this. It's what you do when you want to open something.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:27
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Why would you consider thinking of ways to gently caress a place over that you aren't even involved in anymore, when if they're as lovely as you say they are at this they'll be out of business soon? I mean jesus, I've never worked at a single place that I hadn't wanted to burn down at some point in time but that is mentally warped on a level I can't even understand!
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Oct 10, 2014 01:57
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Actually, knowing your coworkers wages is very beneficial and only became "inappropriate" in the work place as efforts to bust unionization became more common.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:15
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MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Actually, knowing your coworkers wages is very beneficial and only became "inappropriate" in the work place as efforts to bust unionization became more common. I think that depends on the situation. I don't like telling people how much I make, and I got the impression that the dude from earlier was asking his boss what other people make.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:03
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Splizwarf posted:Ricola, can you expand on leverage in this context? Honestly, if there's one thing I've learned in my years in the industry, it's that leverage (in that way) is very, very rare unless you're very high up in management. Everyone is replaceable. There are exceptions, sure (like the FL head porter), but they're very few and far between, and if you're one of them then you're already treated well enough that you wouldn't ever feel the need to put forth an ultimatum. Most restaurants are set up so that every single station can be manned by someone of average capability, average intelligence, and average work ethic (or worse). If you're better than that, sure you can improve productivity, but not by an amount that's ever going to be worth it to pay you more than they think you're worth or set a precedent that could lead to multiple people walking out/quitting if you get your way and they don't get theirs. It's a hard lesson to learn but eventually everyone learns it from seeing it in action or from experiencing it. I'm pretty drat good at what I do, even the GM and chef that fired me a couple years ago thought so. However, I was overworked (a lot, we're talking 80-90 hour weeks on a 50 hour/week salary) and we were understaffed and I was not happy about it, so I told them that poo poo either needed to change or I was done. I was pretty sure I was indispensable (one of two chefs in an $80k/week understaffed restaurant) but I was wrong. Because of some unpleasantness they decided to pull some shady poo poo to get me out in less than the two weeks' notice I would have given, and the restaurant went on just fine without me after a couple days of scrambling for staff. I've seen head chefs removed with no immediate replacement, I've seen awesome dishwashers let go (because of attitude or punctuality) just before service on Friday, I've seen line cooks let go in understaffed restaurants. Every one of those restaurants was just fine. Moral of the story is that if you think you're underpaid for what you're doing, make your case and ask. If they agree, they'll give you that raise or promotion. If they don't, then you can either be happy with what you've got or start looking for other work. Trying to strong arm your way into a raise or promotion in an industry with as high turnover and minimal training required as the restaurant industry isn't ever going to work out well.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:13
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Radio Help posted:I think that depends on the situation. I don't like telling people how much I make, and I got the impression that the dude from earlier was asking his boss what other people make. It's REALLY REALLY important and beneficial to you to know what your coworkers are making... people died for the rights of American workers to be able to discuss and organize better and more fair conditions. Here's a good article on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ingle_page=true
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Oct 10, 2014 05:24
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Radio Help posted:I think that depends on the situation. I don't like telling people how much I make, and I got the impression that the dude from earlier was asking his boss what other people make. I know that its considered impolite, but the more I think about it the more I think its been made that way so that management can get away with paying the least amount to everyone possible. Not even just in kitchens either, I hear about corporate jobs where its practically a firing offense to ask around to people in the same position as you about salary. I'm pretty sure questions like that weren't always considered rude in Western society.
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Oct 10, 2014 08:00
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MAKE NO BABBYS posted:It's REALLY REALLY important and beneficial to you to know what your coworkers are making... people died for the rights of American workers to be able to discuss and organize better and more fair conditions. I have to say I completely and utterly disagree with this. it's really not at all important to know what other people are making in the workplace, it only breeds jealousy, resentment, contempt for the business, and strife between the stakeholders in a business and the employees. there's just too much that an individual employee may or may not know about the overall workings of a business to respond rationally to global information about the monetary workings of a business. I mean some dude making $10/hr can look at a nightly take of $15k and be like 'gently caress, im not paid nearly enough for this poo poo', and not know about all the loans, licenses, inventory management, shareholder cuts, maintenance budget, blah blah blah that an operation has to deal with. likewise, when I first started out in my first non cooking job, I made a salary of $38k/yr. which I thought was very low for my skillset. My boss made like $70k, and was open about this. I resented her a lot, because she basically shovelled off running the entirety of the business on my shoulders within the first couple years. I kept on being like 'gently caress this, I do all the hard work, she makes all the money, she'd be nowhere without me', blah blah blah, stupid typical 15 year old poo poo like alobar was posting. the reason why I was wrong, and the reason why alobar was wrong for making an ultimatium, is that it really isn't any of your loving business what anyone else in the world makes. you can talk about unions and fair working conditions all you goddamn want, but practically no job in existence today is fair. there's no such thing as fair. giant corporations make billions of dollars every day and chew us all up and spit us all out like so many marketing segments, and we aren't whining and gnashing our teeth about that. we're all being hosed, just accept it's part of capitalism. convincing yourself you can find a 'fair' wage by knowing the salaries of your peers is just deluded. if anything, knowing the salaries of your peers is more harmful than helpful - if you're convinced you're just worth what your peers are, you bracket yourself into whatever segment you're in. bring value to a company, and make the case for why you're worth what you think you're worth. If you land a promotion, and joe blow working dishpit at $8 an hour asks you how much you're making now that you got whatever promotion, it ain't any of his business. your newfound position doesn't really have anything to do with him or the choices he's made in working for the restaurant, or have any bearing on his hourly rate.
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Oct 10, 2014 08:03
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I'm not disagreeing that poo poo isn't fair and that the best we can hope for is that we die of liver failure before our knees give out (or go into IT), but having more data about how you're being screwed is kind of what is necessary in order for things to change. If no one talks about their salary then the woman on the line never figures out that she's being paid 5k less a year than the guy who got hired a year after she was and works under her because management knows she won't make a fuss. poo poo like that is what honest open talk about salary prevents. If person is hired on who has a skillset that merits higher pay, that's fine, people see the skillset, if a person has seniority and raises are based on things like that, awesome! But hidden salary screws alot of people over, even people who aren't entitled ultimatum jackasses.
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Oct 10, 2014 08:10
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In a big picture sense, yeah, people should be talking about wage disparities. I even said like a page or two ago that I would love for there to be a stable service industry union. If someone is in the same station as me or has been there for roughly the same amount of time/puts in the same amount of effort as I do, I'll gladly tell them what my hourly wage is. However, nearly every time I have told some 18 year-old college freshman dishwasher/prep guy how much I make, they shoot me shade over $1.50/hr when I have many more years in the industry than they do, and my skillset is vastly greater than theirs. That's just my experience. It isn't really a workers rights debate at that point, it's a "I don't even want to deal with some dingus disliking me because I make more money than them" thing. edit: listen to mindplux cuz he's my brain bro also I love cheap wine also I'm really not used to getting off work at 3:30am Radio Help fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 13:42
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mindphlux posted:I have to say I completely and utterly disagree with this. it's really not at all important to know what other people are making in the workplace, it only breeds jealousy, resentment, contempt for the business, and strife between the stakeholders in a business and the employees. Capitalism sure has you by the balls, doesn't it? There's a reason you can look up any government employee's salary, we should be no different. Knowing how much your coworkers get paid gives you an idea of just how much your employer is shafting you.
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Oct 10, 2014 13:58
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Radio Help posted:2) What other people make is none of your business, and asking about it puts managers on edge and will probably get you ghosted or fired. I completely disagree with this, knowing what other people make is important to make sure that nobody is being grossly taken advantage of, and it's super illegal for an employer to prevent employees from discussing their wages. Naelyan posted:Honestly, if there's one thing I've learned in my years in the industry, it's that leverage (in that way) is very, very rare unless you're very high up in management. Everyone is replaceable. There are exceptions, sure (like the FL head porter), but they're very few and far between, and if you're one of them then you're already treated well enough that you wouldn't ever feel the need to put forth an ultimatum. WanderingMinstrel I posted:I know that its considered impolite, but the more I think about it the more I think its been made that way so that management can get away with paying the least amount to everyone possible. Not even just in kitchens either, I hear about corporate jobs where its practically a firing offense to ask around to people in the same position as you about salary. I'm pretty sure questions like that weren't always considered rude in Western society. Getting fired for discussing your salary with your employees would own, because you would 100% have your ex-employer by the balls in a labour law lawsuit.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:08
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EAT THE EGGS RICOLA posted:I completely disagree with this, knowing what other people make is important to make sure that nobody is being grossly taken advantage of, and it's super illegal for an employer to prevent employees from discussing their wages. again, yeah, I agree with this when it's in the right context. That guy set off a knee-jerk reaction. I got scars, bro deep scarz
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Oct 10, 2014 14:11
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I think talking about wages is important, especially if you're a female, nonwhite, not born in the US, etc. The one situation where I refused to disclose how much I made was when my kitchen "rival" asked me. We had been hired almost at the same time, I was a few years older and more educated than he was, we had the same amount of experience but more of his was immediately relevant. He was larger than me and could easily throw heavy sheet trays and huge stockpots around. I was better with customers. I had a better background in safety and sanitation. He was fast on everything but sometimes sloppy I was precise but sometimes not so quick. I could understand complicated written instructions better, but he could pick something up after seeing it once. We competed at everything, whenever our kitchen overlords were smart/dumb enough to give us the same task. Generally it was a dead heat. One day he asked me how much I made, and I realized that no matter what the answer was, at least one of us would be furious. Even if we were paid the same to the penny, we'd both harbor the idea that we were worth just a little more than the other. I miss that guy.
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Oct 10, 2014 14:38
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I'm generally in favour of some openness in wages too. I've worked at a few unionized places, both kitchen and otherwise, and it is comforting to know that there are fair rules governing how much everyone gets paid, and that nobody could end up getting screwed over as individuals when doing the same work. Collective agreements are pretty nice that way. The problem is that people are childish idiots. I had a job once where I was dumb enough to let it slip how much I was making as the head chef and only cook at a camp. Some of the waitresses (entitled white girls) found out that I was making more than them, and then they stopped doing any back-of-house work and became general pains in the rear end because of it. Those cunts didn't even consider that they were working 4h/day and I was working 14, which, expertise and whatever else aside, explains why I was taking home more. Management didn't have my back on it, either, which made things worse.
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Oct 10, 2014 15:14
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Capitalism sure has you by the balls, doesn't it? There's a reason you can look up any government employee's salary, we should be no different. Knowing how much your coworkers get paid gives you an idea of just how much your employer is shafting you. your employer, no matter who you're employed by, is always, by definition "shafting you". that's how capitalism works. if a business can't make money off the work of its employees, it's a failed enterprise - and you should probably be ok with this if you are ok with taking a paycheck from a company. why you'd want to dwell on how badly you're getting hosed is beyond me - on the one hand it might be helpful sure to even the playing field between you and rear end in a top hat mcslackoff who is making $2/hr more than you - but like CommonShore says, people are childish idiots who take poo poo personally, don't have all the facts, ignore context, feel entitled, whatever. makes for a toxic environment - people are weird as poo poo about money. also, business is not the same as government, and it shouldn't be. I don't even know how to respond to that one. listen, I'm all for ending corporate personhood, raging against the man, destroying the 0.00001% - but saying private companies and government should be held to the same standard of transparency is just 
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Oct 10, 2014 15:38
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