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We had a player roll a nat 20 death save, and I was thinking of the 4e rule where saves generally happened at the end of your turn. But in 5e it looks like death saves actually happen at the start of the turn. If we are reading the rules correctly they should get a full turn after returning to 1hp, since they are no longer unconscious and haven't spent any actions yet. That's a pretty nice change, keeping players active instead of giving them HP back but making them skip a turn anyway after rolling that 20.Father Wendigo posted:I splooge damage all over that guy. What capstone would you expect? Assassinating someone implies getting the jump on them and making them dead before they know wtf is happening. The 3rd level abilities are the real gems. Advantage on the first round lets you use sneak attack even if an ally isnt around or you aren't stealthed...such as if you jumped someone, crit them in the surprise round but didn't finish them off, or have to deal with their buddy. And auto-crit on a surprise round (doubling all your sneak damage too) is great.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:13
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Agent Boogeyman posted:The reason behind this is because a lot of the problems we're addressing are problems that are actually difficult TO fix without just re-writing the whole drat system from the floor up. There's no formula to anything, it's just arbitrary mish-mash half the time, so any attempts to solve it amass to just... kinda making poo poo up. It's not like some kind of global, quantifiable problem where you can look at it and go, "Ah! Here's the problem! Here's how to fix it!". There's no simple fix for such complicated problems. For instance, my major issue is how unfriendly 5E is to new GMs, as discussed in how poorly constructed 5E's encounter building vs. reward system is. How CAN you fix that without cutting that entire section out and replacing it with something better? Basically 5e "works" if you stop giving a poo poo about telling a coherent story. If you run it more or less as just a bunch of numbskull murder hobos drifting from town to town leaving a wake of corpses behind them, no real time constraints, no plot pressure, then it all kinda works out. The Wizard short-circuited an entire dungeon? Good for them, grab the money and run. Character had a run in with a brain puppy? I'm sorry for your loss, I'm sure their long lost twin will enjoy their stuff. Generate encounters haphazardly, and tell the players outright that you have no loving clue how deadly anything actually is. Just make the entire goal "collect as much swag as humanly possible, and spend all of it on elf drugs and illithid porn." Minimize your planning, because it won't matter anyway. Essentially this focuses on the strengths: things resolve quick, and players can cook up hilarious ways to subvert "normal" problem solving.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:15
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ascendance posted:Hurt feelings. Well that's a really loving dumb way of saying that then. Mormon Star Wars posted:RPGnet allows you to create threads where anyone saying anything negative gets banned by putting [5e+] in the thread title. Perhaps that might be a better site for what some of you are looking for? Hey, I said this like two, three pages back now! Try to keep up.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:16
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Father Wendigo posted:Neither of the other two Rogue paths really sells being a learned killer of beings great and small, though. What's shadow monk's schtick, and does it blend with crossbows? Shadow monks do some fun poo poo - teleport, darkness, and seeing in the dark.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:24
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For what it's worth, it's this thread and it's predecessor that introduced me to Fate as a system, which I now DM and enjoy the hell out of. Because these threads actually dissected what systems were good for what styles of play, something that's actually kind of hard to find.
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Oct 8, 2014 23:30
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LFK posted:the one solution I do have for this isn't so much tossing out the system, but tossing out the assumptions of how you interact with the system. Edit: Which, by the way, may be why it works a little better for some people, and the types of games they want to run.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:08
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Nihilarian posted:Are paragon paths in DnDNext?
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Oct 9, 2014 00:13
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ascendance posted:well, you've described old school play in a mean spirited, but not inaccurate nutshell. To be fair, that probably the way to play most editions of D&D and get the most mileage out of it with the least amount of unnecessary effort, whinging, or rules lawyering.
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Oct 9, 2014 06:50
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LFK posted:the one solution I do have for this isn't so much tossing out the system, but tossing out the assumptions of how you interact with the system. It also makes sense if you think of it as a move to push parties to play only official adventures. If the DIY rules are screwed up you can always just buy stuff and play it from there. Well, you do have to hope the adventure you bought actually works as written.
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Oct 9, 2014 07:03
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The Real Foogla posted:It also makes sense if you think of it as a move to push parties to play only official adventures. If the DIY rules are screwed up you can always just buy stuff and play it from there. Well, you do have to hope the adventure you bought actually works as written. This kind of conspiracy-theorying is silly on its own, but more silly when you consider that adventures in D&D have never been better than their source material.
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Oct 9, 2014 07:14
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In the spirit of discussing 5e play and not just posting here to complain about its design some more, here's the house rules i've come up with (haha: stolen elsewhere) for our group: - Stats are 4d6 drop 1 (old school habit of ours), option to reroll or point buy if you come in under budget, also: you get advantage on one of the rolls (used to demonstrate adv to the group, may drop if we reroll in 5e) - Everyone gets a feat at 1st level (a reaction to how nasty deadly HotDQ is when starting out) - Advantage on hitpoint rolls when leveling - Short rests are 30m but you need an hour to go by after having one before benefitting from another (so you can have one per 90 minutes). I dunno how I ended up with those numbers, I mostly just thought an hour of downtime was way too much, and will probably say "gently caress it, go by 4e short rest timekeeping" the first time it causes problems. - Went to my FLGS and got 3 loose d20's with the same color pattern that was bright and somewhat unique (to our group's dice pool) and eye catching. I use them for inspiration dice and basically hand one to someone when they get inspiration, they can pass it to another if they are giving that character inspiration, either way when whoever has it wants to use it they just add it to the roll they want for advantage and after that it goes back to the bank. Not really a rule change (or a novel idea...) but I've found it gives inspiration a much greater presence in our game. IMO it is a bit of an under-discussed feature that goes pretty easily into the short list of "positive additions in 5e" (the marriage of drama dice and advantage, I guess). With their background section now having a lot more crunch, it gives plenty of mini hooks not just for the story and interactions, but guidance for invoking inspiration both for players and the DM. To help I have an index card with background details in bullet point and try to be a little liberal with granting them, so long as the PCs are leaning on their character traits during moments of some significance and not just fishing for gimmes whenever they don't have one of the special orange dice, like character-traiting at everything around them or picking a generic trait and using it ad nasaeum (I ~distrust~ the nameless throwaway NPC we just talked to!) . Bhaal fucked around with this message at 07:51 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 07:41
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Bhaal posted:- Stats are 4d6 drop 1 ... also: you get advantage on one of the rolls (used to demonstrate adv to the group, may drop if we reroll in 5e) Isn't this already 'advantage' for a 3d6 roll?
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Oct 9, 2014 09:03
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I'm guessing he means "roll one stat of your choice twice over, chose the best result." To be honest, at the point where you're tacking on extra hoops to try and mitigate the swinginess of random stat generation it seems like it'd be quicker and easier to simply go "okay, enough rolling and re-rolling, everybody use this stat array, go."
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Oct 9, 2014 09:15
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There's something tactile about rolling the dice people like. I'm a point buy guy myself.
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Oct 9, 2014 09:27
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Bhaal posted:
This is pretty drat close to how my groups have been playing it, except for rolling hit dice, we just take max HP. Another thing we're different on is the inspiration dice. Which until you brought them up I had 100% forgotten they even existed, more then likely the rest of my group has as well. Going to remind them friday.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:18
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I can't see how any of this is better than gamma worlds 'take a 16 and 18 and roll your other stats'. Then you can play a super weak wizard but won't be unable to contribute in the one part of the game where it matters.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:28
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edit: N/m dont wnt to argue about it.
TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 10:31 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 10:29
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30.5 Days posted:This kind of conspiracy-theorying is silly on its own, but more silly when you consider that adventures in D&D have never been better than their source material. But guess what, solid DM guidelines for adventure building and actual monster math would make it easier for Official D&D Writers™ to make adventures as well. Wolfgang Baur made some complaints about how difficult it was to write Hoard when the rules weren't even out yet and it shows. Many groups noticed how uneven the challenges were, for example.
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Oct 9, 2014 10:44
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The Real Foogla posted:It also makes sense if you think of it as a move to push parties to play only official adventures. If the DIY rules are screwed up you can always just buy stuff and play it from there. Well, you do have to hope the adventure you bought actually works as written. You realise WoTC isnt even writing adventures anymore. They are currently all being produced by third party partners. HotDQ was written by Kobold Press. Forgot which other companies have been licensed. Also, encounters have been messed up since 3rd. Moderately functional in 4th, but even then, there were some lame monsters and super deadly ones for a given CR. although the issue with 4th probably had to do with particular combinations of monsters, and in particular, having too many action denial monsters. edit : thought 4e worked best with fewer brutes and more glass cannons,
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Oct 9, 2014 11:30
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Quick rules question. Someone was telling me you could get the warlock hex spell to add D8s instead of D6s but I can't seem to find in the book where it lets you do this. I'm not as familiar with casters so I'm probably just missing something; does anyone know where the rule is if it's there?
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Oct 9, 2014 13:29
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ascendance posted:You realise WoTC isnt even writing adventures anymore. They are currently all being produced by third party partners. HotDQ was written by Kobold Press. Forgot which other companies have been licensed. Sasquatch Game Studio is doing the next set of adventures, I believe.
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Oct 9, 2014 13:32
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Radish posted:Quick rules question. Someone was telling me you could get the warlock hex spell to add D8s instead of D6s but I can't seem to find in the book where it lets you do this. I'm not as familiar with casters so I'm probably just missing something; does anyone know where the rule is if it's there? I don't think it is possible. Whoever told you might have misinterpreted hex changing to 8 hour duration when cast at as a level 3 or 4 spell?
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Oct 9, 2014 13:49
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Man there's nothing like getting round your Lawful good paladin friends by invading people's minds and making psychic deals with them. I'm pretty sure my character is a dead man if they ever find out.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:13
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Yorkshire Tea posted:Man there's nothing like getting round your Lawful good paladin friends by invading people's minds and making psychic deals with them. "Getting around the paladin" is a glorious D&D passtime and tradition.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:19
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Yakse posted:I don't think it is possible. Whoever told you might have misinterpreted hex changing to 8 hour duration when cast at as a level 3 or 4 spell? Weird. I'll have to ask him next time I see him what he meant.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:46
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My paladin is now level 2. Hooray spells: Am I correct in my interpretation of the reading that having a high casting attribute only allows me to prepare more spells, but not to cast more spells? So as a level 2 paladin, I prepare (CHA 16, 3+(1/2 level) =) 4 spells and have two spells slots per long rest to use as I see fit between my 4 prepared spells and Divine Smite? Am I correct that the Smite spells (Searing, Thunderous, Wrathful) only work for a single attack, while Divine Favor and Bless work for the full duration? Are there any spells that are actually much better/worse than they look?
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Oct 9, 2014 16:19
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Might it make a difference if this were run in an "E6" style, with a capped level progression?
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Oct 9, 2014 16:52
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Even the first level of spells has fight-enders and class-spoilers, so it'd need some extra work. I still think the best start for a functional 5e game is for either everybody or nobody to play a nine-level caster. Hwurmp fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 17:00
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Tactical Bonnet posted:My paladin is now level 2. Hooray spells: Yes, your interpretation of the rules on spell slots and smites is correct. A couple of considerations: 1. Keep an eye out for spells that are limited by Concentration. In addition to only having one up at a time (e.g. you can't have Divine Favor and Bless), as a paladin this may be a pretty significant liability since presumably you'll be on the front lines. (If you're a defensive paladin using a shield with crazy AC and solid CON, maybe not as big a deal, but something to consider.) 2. If what you're looking for from spell slots is simply raw damage, keep in mind the option to just spend them on Divine Smite. It's bursty (a good thing in 5E where combat tends to be over quickly anyway), it's pretty competitive with most of the pure damage smite spells, and it doesn't require taking up a prepared spell slot. Personally most of the paladin self-buffs like Divine Favor, Searing Smite, etc. that just amount to being a different kind of damage don't strike me as that useful as a result - why prepare those when you can just Divine Smite? This lets you use prepared slots for the great-but-situational buffs like Protection from Evil and Good and the like. 3. The frightened condition is really good, and makes me like Wrathful a lot. 4. Heroism is a pretty good sustain spell if you're in long combats and have a decent CHA mod. Does take Concentration, though. 5. I don't think it's underrated, but Bless really is pretty awesome and worth getting unless you have another caster in your party who brings it to the table with regularity.
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Oct 9, 2014 17:15
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Really Pants posted:I still think the best start for a functional 5e game is for either everybody or nobody to play a nine-level caster. Honestly I think you could just delete Fighter (probably Rogue too, and just put Cunning Action & Sneak Attack somewhere else, like in the Monk's Ki stuff) and you'd be alright for the most part. But basically yeah you right, keep players from using either the lovely or the god-like classes.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:00
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I've often thought you could combine many of the "martial" classes into a single class called "hero" and let him do pretty much all of their things. Fighting, berserker rage, sneaking, picking locks, shooting arrows... generally speaking those classes just have a single set of things they can be doing at any one time (EG: You can't wield a greataxe and a bow at the same time) so being good at all of them wouldn't really unbalance anything. Conan got by being a fully effective thief, barbarian, fighter, warlord and pirate, and I doubt he'd overpower any game where D&D clerics and wizards were around.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:23
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Gort posted:I've often thought you could combine many of the "martial" classes into a single class called "hero" and let him do pretty much all of their things. Fighting, berserker rage, sneaking, picking locks, shooting arrows... generally speaking those classes just have a single set of things they can be doing at any one time (EG: You can't wield a greataxe and a bow at the same time) so being good at all of them wouldn't really unbalance anything. This is kinda how it originally was. Then Gygax and friends made up the Thief.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:28
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That's pretty much the reason I don't allow thieves in od&d based games like RC. There's a skill system, so you don't need the crappy percentile thing. There's a halfling, so you don't need a sneaky dude. Gimping a character to fulfil the trap finder roll is worse than making someone heal bot. It would be great if the fighter could be good at literally anything that doesn't require magic. No, I don't mean jumping slightly farther than someone can in the real world. That might be the problem, martial ability has been spread out so individually any one of them can't be good at much without infringing on the other ones, while a caster has a spell for everything.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:40
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People still played Fighters and Thieves back in 2nd Edition, and they're much more mechanically useful today. Wizards were far more powerful then as well. Balance has never been very important in the design. Ask anyone who has played in a game of Rifts whether balance precludes characters from being useful (with an average or better GM of course).
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Oct 9, 2014 18:55
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branar posted:2. If what you're looking for from spell slots is simply raw damage, keep in mind the option to just spend them on Divine Smite. It's bursty (a good thing in 5E where combat tends to be over quickly anyway), it's pretty competitive with most of the pure damage smite spells, and it doesn't require taking up a prepared spell slot. Personally most of the paladin self-buffs like Divine Favor, Searing Smite, etc. that just amount to being a different kind of damage don't strike me as that useful as a result - why prepare those when you can just Divine Smite? This lets you use prepared slots for the great-but-situational buffs like Protection from Evil and Good and the like. I should've specified that my build is "shield wearing healer/tank" and that "Bless" and "Cure Wounds" are on the list. I do plan to Smite often, I was just curious if there was anything I missed while going over things. Math: Divine favor is an average of +2.5 (1-4) damage per hit for up to 10 rounds (for an average of +25 (10-40)) where divine smite is one hit with an average of +9 (2-16). So which one is the best source of bonus damage is depends on how many attacks you plan on making. If it's less than 4, smite... At least until you can get level 2 spell slots.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:57
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Gort posted:I've often thought you could combine many of the "martial" classes into a single class called "hero" and let him do pretty much all of their things. Fighting, berserker rage, sneaking, picking locks, shooting arrows... generally speaking those classes just have a single set of things they can be doing at any one time (EG: You can't wield a greataxe and a bow at the same time) so being good at all of them wouldn't really unbalance anything. I think one of the D&D editions had martial class that could switch between martial feats at will. Higher levels meant being able to take more feats and switch oftener, so he could be a great thief, or a great defender, or a great shooter, or a great cleaver depending on the situation. Babylon Astronaut posted:That's pretty much the reason I don't allow thieves in od&d based games like RC. There's a skill system, so you don't need the crappy percentile thing. That's interesting and I might implement that as well. I feel strongly about the "roll under attribute" system to be sufficient for pretty much everything, and I did not like how bad the Thief percentile skill tables were, but at the same time giving the Thief a +2 or +4 bonus to roll attribute checks felt redundant if he's going to have 16-18 DEX anyway, plus the fact that they stuck the poor guy with a d4 hit die. gradenko_2000 fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:06
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I've been a 3.5 DM for years but my friends want to try out 5th edition and I'm not opposed. What are all these issues with 5th edition people are vaguely mentioning that I need to be aware of?
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Oct 9, 2014 19:42
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To be honest if you're happy with 3.5 then 5th probably will be fine for you, just run it and have fun.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:43
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To put it another way: They want to play a group of a Barbarian (not sure type), Eldritch Knight, Abjurer Wizard, and Pact of the Blade Warlock. How badly are they going to get hosed if I throw them CR 1 encounters and play them as written? Kobolds are partial CR creatures, how badly is a group of them equal to CR1 going to trounce them? If I have any complaints about 3.5, it's that I have to generally guide people into making optimal character builds to survive instead of letting them pick more freely. I don't like when people get upset that their characters die but I don't like doing baby encounters because that's not fun for me. TenaciousJ fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:46
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Talmonis posted:People still played Fighters and Thieves back in 2nd Edition, and they're much more mechanically useful today. Wizards were far more powerful then as well. Balance has never been very important in the design. Ask anyone who has played in a game of Rifts whether balance precludes characters from being useful (with an average or better GM of course). The bit about 2E fighters is wrong. They were really powerful and could swing around a lot of narrative weight with their followers. 2E fighters at high level hit pretty much everything on a 2+, and were incredibly resilient with a relatively huge pile of HP and some fantastic saving throws. And while their narrative weight still depended on "mother may I" gameplay, it was of the "mother may I use my army to" variety.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:47
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