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I'm curious about something. Are there larch trees where you guys live? What time do they turn? Our season is already over, I sadly missed it. I just realized I've seen a distinct lack of larch in this thread.
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Oct 2, 2014 20:57
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Yes, but I don't know when they turn. Probably varies a lot based on elevation. (they are also called tamarack in the US/Canada)
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Oct 2, 2014 22:20
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Guess it depends where in Canada, I live an hour from Banff NP and I've never heard that before.
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Oct 3, 2014 00:13
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They may not be as big as the mountains out west, but the Appalachians get awful pretty in the fall (Mount Rogers VA last weekend):     Five hour drive to get there and worth every minute. If you're in the mid-Atlantic looking for an overnight trip now's the time of year to head there.
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Oct 3, 2014 03:40
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Summitted Handwerk Peak. Not my pic, forgot to take one near the beginning Couldn't really ask for better weather this late in the season, though everything is dead and brown.  It's a bit of a drop over the edge... 
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Oct 5, 2014 04:44
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Currently looking for another bag to add to my gear. Have a heavy heavy 10 degree bag which is synthetic. And I also have a marmot pounder which is rated to 40 but I dont know if itll go that low comfortably. Anyways I am looking at picking up a quilt. And am debating on 20 vs 10*. This quilt will be used for hiking on the AT almost exclusively. Anyone have insights on this? I do enjoy some late fall early winter camping.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:32
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I think it'll depend on what kind of pad you use. I made a 20* quilt for the JMT this year and was barely warm enough with all of my clothes on using a 3/4 length zlite as a pad. The lowest temp I saw was 28*F in the early morning. I was really glad I had added draft stoppers to my quilt because it made a huge difference in the warmth. I think a 20* traditional bag would have been fine but it being a quilt made me more susceptible to the pidly pad I was using. Aside from the warmth, I love everything else about the CCF pad (weight, versatility, ease/speed of use). So in order to avoid having to get a beefier pad, next time I'd probably go with a 10* quilt. If I were going to use a bag instead, I'd stick with 20*. Long story short, if your pad is warm, 20* would be fine. If you pad is thin, I'd go 10* on the quilt, 20* if it were a bag.
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Oct 9, 2014 00:42
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Saint Fu posted:I think it'll depend on what kind of pad you use. I made a 20* quilt for the JMT this year and was barely warm enough with all of my clothes on using a 3/4 length zlite as a pad. The lowest temp I saw was 28*F in the early morning. I was really glad I had added draft stoppers to my quilt because it made a huge difference in the warmth. I think a 20* traditional bag would have been fine but it being a quilt made me more susceptible to the pidly pad I was using. I actually only have a junky z rest at the moment. Long story short but I lost some gear. Looking to pick up another bad with a higher R value, maybe a prolite. Something with some padding and warmth that doesnt take too much time to fill. The weight diff between a 20 and 10* quilt is only 3 oz. Could I get the 20* and then bring a light weight summer bag to use in conjunction if its cold out?
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Oct 9, 2014 00:55
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DholmbladRU posted:The weight diff between a 20 and 10* quilt is only 3 oz. Could I get the 20* and then bring a light weight summer bag to use in conjunction if its cold out?
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Oct 9, 2014 01:00
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Saint Fu posted:I think it'll depend on what kind of pad you use. I made a 20* quilt for the JMT this year and was barely warm enough with all of my clothes on using a 3/4 length zlite as a pad. The lowest temp I saw was 28*F in the early morning. I was really glad I had added draft stoppers to my quilt because it made a huge difference in the warmth. I think a 20* traditional bag would have been fine but it being a quilt made me more susceptible to the pidly pad I was using. Was it just cuz your pad was 3/4 length or was the zlite itself not enough? I used an inflatable (REI Flash) pad on my JMT trip and yeah on the cold nights near freezing I felt like the pad was the weak link, but I wasn't sure. I have a 10* quilt though and didn't need to put on extra clothes...never really felt cold, just had a few cool spots on the coldest nights e: ah, zlite is 2.6 r value vs 3.2 for the REI flash. Dang, I was thinking of switching. Guess if I"m going colder than freezing I just need to get a better insulated pad Levitate fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 01:17
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Saint Fu posted:You could definitely double up, especially if one is a quilt (easy to drape over the lighter bag). It probably wouldn't make sense, weight-wise, however. A 20* + 40* almost certainly weighs more than the 10*. The 40* bag is only about a pound. I am just thinking how often I would stay in temp lower than 20* on the east coast on the Appalachian, probably not too often. But if I bought a 10* quilt, maybe I would never fully utilize the warmth and would be carrying around unnecessaryq weight most of the time. DholmbladRU fucked around with this message at 01:50 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 01:45
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Levitate posted:Was it just cuz your pad was 3/4 length or was the zlite itself not enough? DholmbladRU posted:The 40* bag is only about a pound. I am just thinking how often I would stay in temp lower than 20* on the east coast on the Appalachian, probably not too often. One beautiful part of the quilt is that it's easy to open up and use it more like a blanket if it's too hot. I hated sleeping in a subzero mummy bag in the fall when it was my only bag. I need to have something covering me when sleeping but could never stay partially covered and cool enough with an unzipped mummy bag.
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Oct 9, 2014 02:00
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Saint Fu posted:I wish there was a slightly thicker CCF pad because I love not having to worry about punctures and being able to toss it down anywhere anytime without blowing it up. What about the RidgeRest Solar?
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Oct 9, 2014 02:09
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Saint Fu posted:3/4 length was definitely a part of it. I did have a 1/8" gossamer gear foam pad (which I mainly used to wrap my bear can in to protect the cuben pack and use for whatever else) that I used under my feet when sleeping. With the footbox of my quilt tied up so it was closed, it was usually my core/butt getting cold first which seemed to lead to my feet getting cold. I wish there was a slightly thicker CCF pad because I love not having to worry about punctures and being able to toss it down anywhere anytime without blowing it up. That is true. And hey if it turns out to be too warm for the fall I can always use it as an excuses to buy a 30* quilt!
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Oct 9, 2014 02:22
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Ended up placing an order for a black/red EE revelation. Cant wait to get it! This weekend Ill be doing some hiking in the Shenandoah
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Oct 9, 2014 03:50
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Feedbacker posted:What about the RidgeRest Solar? DholmbladRU posted:Ended up placing an order for a black/red EE revelation. Cant wait to get it! This weekend Ill be doing some hiking in the Shenandoah
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Oct 9, 2014 11:10
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From dimple to dimple and ridge to ridge they're both about 3/4", but the foam itself on the RidgeRest is definitely thicker (see the weight difference; RR is heavier by 5 oz in the same size).
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Oct 9, 2014 13:26
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I feel like I heard exped is coming out with some high R value inflatables that stay under 20 oz...probably cost a fortune though. Sometimes I wish I wasn't a side sleeper DholmbladRU, I have an Enlightened Equipment quilt and like it. Good quality, supposedly more accurate temp ratings than major manufacturers, I think he's improved the baffles as well since I bought mine (I don't mind karo baffles but I struggle with effectively moving the down between them and sometimes feel like I've got some underfilled baffles I can't get filled up well). Tim seems like a good guy too, he posts over on backpackinglight to answer questions, etc. I live in DC but haven't done a lot of fall camping in the Shenendoah's, but it'll easily get down towards freezing here soon. I still keep meaning to go to the Dolly Sodds but have been crap about figuring that trip out...
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Oct 9, 2014 14:11
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Well, my enchantment lakes trip was kind of a bust. Despite amazing weather, we got bad intel from the ranger on where we could camp in stuart lake zone, and ended up going all the way to the lake. This led to some possible self sabotage by the less motivated guys the next day to get moving, so we had no chance to attempt to do Asgard Pass - we didn't get to Colchuk until well after noon. I'm not sure I could have gotten up it but I at least wanted to try. Oh well, lesson learned to never do the stuart lake zone.
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Oct 9, 2014 14:17
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Levitate posted:I feel like I heard exped is coming out with some high R value inflatables that stay under 20 oz...probably cost a fortune though. Sometimes I wish I wasn't a side sleeper Everyone who posts about having an EE quilt says its a great product. I can not wait to get mine. I have been making efforts on lighting up my pack. After 14+ years of hiking with a heavy arcteryx bora I finally picked up a new pack, osprey exos 58. Yes in the Shenandoah it will be dropping down in temp soon.
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Oct 9, 2014 15:37
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It can be pricey but man is it nice to lighten up and hit the trail with a pack that's comfortable and easy to carry
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Oct 9, 2014 16:05
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I weighed my pack on the way back from the enhancements and with no water or food it was 49.6 lbs.  I need to stop bringing my ancient 0 degree bag and just get a liner for my 30 degree one.Granted it was better than in Zion 5 years ago when I was carrying 70 but ugh
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Oct 9, 2014 16:08
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mastershakeman posted:I weighed my pack on the way back from the enhancements and with no water or food it was 49.6 lbs.  Holy poo poo thats a lot of weight. I think my heaviest has only ever been in the 35lb range with food and water for a 5 day trip. How long did you go for, how many miles was the hike, how many were in your party?
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Oct 9, 2014 16:15
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mastershakeman posted:I weighed my pack on the way back from the enhancements and with no water or food it was 49.6 lbs. 50lbs!!? Do you have to carry a bear canister or heavy items that are a necessity. Because that seems like overkill... Yeah I remember doing a boyscout trip when I was younger. We were canoeing, but when we had to portage I got stuck with the foodbag. The foodbag for 10people x 8days. Easily over 50-60lbs... When hiking the AT even at my heaviest I probably topped out at 38lbs. Hopefully I am less than that after picking up: osprey atmos exos big agnes fly creek ul2 EE 20* quilt DholmbladRU fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 16:25
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mastershakeman posted:I weighed my pack on the way back from the enhancements and with no water or food it was 49.6 lbs.
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Oct 9, 2014 16:53
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I want to see what all was in that pack!
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Oct 9, 2014 19:40
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If I'm packing 70lbs I better be carrying a dutch oven in there...
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Oct 9, 2014 19:49
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I had a friend who was carrying 5.8lbs between various knives, multitools, a SOG hatchet and a small saw, we thought it was so funny we took pictures of it all and weighed it separately. People new to backpacking have some hilariously weird notions about what they "need" in the outdoors.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:06
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Find all kinds of stuff like that near the AT terminus.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:21
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Pryor on Fire posted:I had a friend who was carrying 5.8lbs between various knives, multitools, a SOG hatchet and a small saw, we thought it was so funny we took pictures of it all and weighed it separately. People new to backpacking have some hilariously weird notions about what they "need" in the outdoors. I have a friend who still does this. He puts all that stuff in a vest then wears it with his pack. It looks uncomfortable, and he bitches incessantly about it but when you suggest leaving 90% of it behind he has a poo poo fit and puts it on anyway. I don't know what goes on in his reasoning for it but it's hilarious. His weight, his problem. We also saw a guy with 2 cast iron pans attached to an external frame pack that had to be 50lbs on its own try to get off a curb in a parking lot in the Smokies. After laughing we helped him up but not without some questions. Apparently they had a canvas tarp an we're heading out to fish.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:45
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And I thought my friend was stupid for bringing a glass bottle of wine with on our last trip. He said the weight was fine (trying to seem tough) and then once we got into the 4k ft of vertical within 3 miles of switchbacks, it got real fast and he was immediately regretting every extra pair of underwear and sock in his bag. To his credit it was his first backpacking trip and he did it with an external frame pack which weighed about 50lbs loaded. No idea what he had all in there but it wasn't light thats for sure.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:10
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External frames should be pretty comfy though shouldn't they?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:26
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Levitate posted:External frames should be pretty comfy though shouldn't they? External frames rule! I got 4-5 comments/compliments on it on the trip. Possibly people were just laughing at me. Here's mine in Zion with the aforementioned 65-70lbs. I've done 80 in it on boundary waters trips. I'm gonna unpack and weigh some of my stuff tonight to figure out what the hell I was carrying that I underestimated (bear can I'm betting is one culprit). I'm on the left, and why yes, that is a 4 man tent and a 1990s era thermarest on the outside of my 130L pack (I didn't have either of them on the Enchantments trip, but did have the pack). 
mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 00:46
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Hah, sweet Big things I noticed that took up weight were clothing (it can really add up, only take what you need), tent and sleeping bag (some can be pretty heavy, but it's pricey to get lighter ones I'll admit), cooking equipment (pots and utensils can be heavy, again really only take what you need), and really just random accessories...if you only use something once during the trip is it worth taking? etc Just really thinking about "what do I really need to take" probably dropped me as much weight as buying new equipment e: sleeping pads too...I used to use the inflatable thermorest 3/4 pads that were probably twice as heavy as the full length inflatable I used on my last trip. poo poo just adds up... Levitate fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:07
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No offense dude but given the questions you were asking and what you were saying about trying to game the permit system I'm not surprised at all your trip was a bust. I don't see how the camping at the lake was bad beta - why would you want to camp anywhere else if you went there? It looks to me like the walk between Stuart and Colchuck was maybe 1.5 - 2 miles at most. I think if you are unable to plan a simple two day hike in one of the most well traveled areas / documented areas of the PNW you really should re-think how you are planning trips. I think 50lb is a bit of weight, but if you're reasonably fit, the distance you were going it's not unreasonable if you want to eat well and drink some beer. With 50lb you brought at least some beer right?
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Oct 10, 2014 01:12
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n8r posted:No offense dude but given the questions you were asking and what you were saying about trying to game the permit system I'm not surprised at all your trip was a bust. I don't see how the camping at the lake was bad beta - why would you want to camp anywhere else if you went there? It looks to me like the walk between Stuart and Colchuck was maybe 1.5 - 2 miles at most. I think if you are unable to plan a simple two day hike in one of the most well traveled areas / documented areas of the PNW you really should re-think how you are planning trips. I think 50lb is a bit of weight, but if you're reasonably fit, the distance you were going it's not unreasonable if you want to eat well and drink some beer. With 50lb you brought at least some beer right? I didn't really want to camp at Stuart lake, despite how picturesque it was. Basically, Stuart Lake was 2.2 miles from the trail junction (2.6 one way to the trailhead, 2.3 the other to Colchuk). We'd really hoped to camp right near the trail junction where the zone started, and the ranger told us that there were 3 campsites a half mile in. We did see one of them, which was tiny, and it was roughly five minutes into the Stuart Lake trail. So we assumed the others would come along at the half mile mark, and then found ourselves going all the way to Stuart lake instead . At that point the rest of the group really liked being by the lake and didn't want to re-set camp back by the junction in a much less picturesque spot, and that kind of killed it because we effectively added 4.4 miles onto the dayhike round trip. We're a bunch of overweight guys from the midwest, and for whatever reason the groups I go with have a ton of problems getting moving in the morning - which meant that by the time we started out (at 1030, good lord) it was already too late to do Asgard and get back before dark. I probably should've just left in the morning and done it myself, but as these are friends I couldn't really do that. One guy in our group does that regularly and has pretty much stopped coming on trips with said group and this was the first time I found myself in the same spot of complete frustration. It definitely wasn't the ranger's fault on the bad intel, but we just had the wrong expectations which led to the wrong mental preparedness. Some of the group likes to party all night and sleep in, others don't, and when the mileage is a lot further than expected that can lead to some big problems. I honestly wonder if it's a weird midwestern thing - I camp with multiple groups of friends here that don't even know each other, yet the one thing they all have in common is incredibly late starts (on the Appalachian trail 3 years ago we wouldn't get moving until 11 a.m.), and I can't figure it out. I'm guessing it's because there's no mountains and no sense of danger in getting caught in storms. On the plus side, the permit system is apparently so tough and there's so many cancellations that there was only one other pair of people on the lake with us each of the nights, which led to a much nicer backcountry experience. edit for posterity, based on bathroom scale (to nearest .2lbs) 6.8 - clothes including jacket/shell. However, a whopping 2.6lbs were flannel pants i'd brought along for the hell of it. those should've definitely been dumped! 4.8 tent - rei passage 1. could dump the bag it was in for some weight savings and get it down to around 4, but that's it 2.6 - empty bear can - . more than i'd figured, but still glad i had it 4.8 - 0 degree sleeping bag that's like 15 years old. should've gone with my newer light 30 degree bag 1.4 big agness uninsulated mattress pad - worth its weight. honestly i don't think I could've dropped more than 5 pounds - i didn't bring a hatchet, saw, cookkit (just the jetboil), anything like that. I think it's more that I tend to carry group equipment like fuel can, bear can, water pump, that kinda thing. At some point I need to just get a ULA pack and go all in with ultralight stuff, I suppose. mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:22
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mastershakeman posted:I didn't really want to camp at Stuart lake, despite how picturesque it was. Basically, Stuart Lake was 2.2 miles from the trail junction (2.6 one way to the trailhead, 2.3 the other to Colchuk). We'd really hoped to camp right near the trail junction where the zone started, and the ranger told us that there were 3 campsites a half mile in. We did see one of them, which was tiny, and it was roughly five minutes into the Stuart Lake trail. So we assumed the others would come along at the half mile mark, and then found ourselves going all the way to Stuart lake instead . It isn't a Midwestern thing, it's a poor planning thing. It sounds like you wanted something and they wanted another. This is something that should have been worked out long ago. It's not unusual though either. When I graduated school years ago the people I packed with started expecting different things on trips. Some went for the experience, and some went to push and do it all. When you start to fall into any other group it's time to start facing facts and talking to them. I have a good friend who loved the idea of really pushing miles but after two trips where his physicality handicapped the trip (and dangerously the second time) both we and him came to terms with the type of trips we could do together. Now we have separate camping/kayaking trips, and backpacking trips. It keeps people friends and keeps people happy so they don't feel left out. It can be tough titty sometimes but, that's life.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:12
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Nateron posted:It isn't a Midwestern thing, it's a poor planning thing. It sounds like you wanted something and they wanted another. This is something that should have been worked out long ago. Yep, I actually discussed switching solely to car camping/paddling trips with one of the other guys, solely because it becomes so much easier. The weird thing is that the guy who least wants to hike is the one that wants to do the most backcountry stuff, which leads to us doing a lot of 2 day/1 night trips that anyone else just day hikes. Ah well I'll figure it out down the road. My biggest concern now is trying to get the photos off of my ancient camera, I don't have a cable that works for it 
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Oct 10, 2014 02:22
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I mean it's not even poor planning, just different styles. Getting up slowly and enjoying the morning and taking it easy is one way of doing it, getting out early and getting a lot done is another way. Not very compatible though
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Oct 10, 2014 02:35
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| # ? May 29, 2024 14:55 |
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Some of my friends can be the same way. I don't think it's necessarily out of laziness but a few different factors. One could be that we're from the Midwest so most guys are used to car camping and not having a reason to wake up early so they want to stay up late chatting and hanging out. Some guys find more fun in sitting around and hanging out than hiking so the thought of waking up early just to go do "work" isn't super enticing. Another thing is that if someone is new they might not understand the importance of getting an early start so that you can get to your destination with enough light to set up camp and make dinner. A lot of my friends see my backpacking trips and ask if they can tag along next time. They think it's like car camping, sitting around a fire and drinking beers but when I tell them the mileage and that we're in bed by 9pm and up by 7 just to pack up and hike some more they quickly lose interest. I like to try to go over the entire game plan before we set out on the trail with a full understanding by the group that those plans can change for a variety of reasons. While we're making dinner we usually go over the game plan for the next day, either to stick to the game plan or change it up. It gives us a good time to check on mental and physical levels of the group and see where we're at. If it was a super hard day/s, we might agree to sleep in the next morning and get a later start. If everyone is excited and ready to go we'll get up early. We could do a day hike or we could change our route. The biggest thing is just being open and communicate with the group to know what everyone wants and they know what to expect. My plans have changed on trips where we might have been a little overzealous about the mileage that we thought we were capable of, take my last trip for example. We were going to do a 30+ mile loop but after hiking in and getting or asses kicked the first day, we realized making it a casual 20+ out and back with side trips would be much more enjoyable than trying to just push through every waking minute and doing 15 extra miles and tripling the already challenging elevation gain.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:25
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