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Man that killer's mask looks a lot like the Young Justice Sportsmaster mask. Please Arrow writers, make live-action Sportsmaster a thing.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:57
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Wait a sec... Didn't Sara give her jacket to Laurel five months ago? She went out and bought a new, identical one?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:10
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BrianWilly posted:Wait a sec... You've never bought the same kind of shirt more than once? And do you know how hard it is to find a murderin' jacket that you can also wear on a night at the club?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:21
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Drifter posted:^^^ - having a woman die in order to motivate a woman or a man doesn't really make her death more or less feminist. Not necessarily the death in and of itself, but if someone killed Sara to "send the Arrow a message," and the actual result was turning Laurel into a more realized and empowered character, it still comments on the trope in a feminist way. Maybe the message was meant for Oliver, but Laurel being the one to respond to it would still say something about the assumption that only male characters can make active decisions in this genre. A villain attempting to disempower women and instead being crushed by one is at least *something*, right?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:22
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Gaz-L posted:You've never bought the same kind of shirt more than once?
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Oct 10, 2014 00:26
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I can't believe there are people in this thread actually talking about how Arrow disempowers women. Did you miss how Team Arrow would be nowhere without Felicity, and how she took down Slade? Or how Ollie was taught to fight by a woman? Or how Moira saved thousands of lives? Or how Sara saved Ollie from certain capture last year? Or how the Huntress easily took down hordes of men in her quest for revenge? Or how much rear end Sara kicked? Or how Thea stood up to people whom nobody else would dare stand up to and took nobody's bullshit? Or how Laurel is a competent, intelligent, ruthless lawyer and champion for the helpless? If anything, I'd say this is one of the most pro-feminist shows The CW has had in years. poo poo I had to edit this post like ten times as the examples came to me. Captain Mog fucked around with this message at 00:33 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 00:30
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It can be a very pro-feminist show and still have problematic sexist trends. It can do a whole lot of things right and still not do everything right. It can show how far we've come and still show how far we've yet to go. These are not complicated, mutually-exclusive concepts. And it applies to every show, not just Arrow.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:35
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BrianWilly posted:
I can't not read this exchange as Nick and Schmidt from New Girl.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:35
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Gaz-L posted:She'll probably show up from time to time, but Ollie thought she died on the island until she showed up in the city last season, remember? So she'll need to show up in other flashbacks (Amell has said that they're branching out and some episodes will have flashbacks follow the other characters, like Felicity) Maybe she will showing her training by the LOA.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:41
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Sara was a person who killed other people for money and was almost certainly in the city to kill someone (for money). If, after her completely innocent sister had left the area, someone had shown up and put several arrows in her followed by "You have failed this city" that would have been about what was supposed to happen to someone who kills people for money in Starling City. Shado was fridged, Sara hasn't been. It might turn into that, but I highly doubt that's what this turns out to be.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:03
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I'm loving the extended universe they're slowly trying to bring into both shows. The boxing match was at Ferris Arena and in Flash the test runs were at Ferris Airfield. Wonder if we'll get some kind of GL cross over into either show? Not really spoilers as both have aired already but just in case people didn't see them and want to remain unaware till its something more obvious.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:05
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eNeMeE posted:Sara was a person who killed other people for money and was almost certainly in the city to kill someone (for money). If, after her completely innocent sister had left the area, someone had shown up and put several arrows in her followed by "You have failed this city" that would have been about what was supposed to happen to someone who kills people for money in Starling City. Speaking of... HE SAID IT!!! 
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Oct 10, 2014 01:06
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Sara owned, can't wait for Laurel to kick the poo poo out of whoever killed her.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:10
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eNeMeE posted:Shado was fridged Honestly, I'm so tired of this term. It's watered down to the point of uselessness. Every time a female character dies in a show with a male main character, they've now been fridged. Why doesn't this apply to male characters that die solely to motivate or move the main male character's story forward? Some characters exist to die. That term is overused and misused way too much, and it honestly should be unisex. DFu4ever fucked around with this message at 01:45 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:42
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^^^ - comic nerds trying to maintain relevancy through trope jargon.  overtone posted:Sara owned, can't wait for Laurel to kick the poo poo out of whoever killed her. I really hope Laurel sucks at fighting normally and then Ollie discovers her Drunken Master fighting ability. Drunk and angry Laurel Canary would be the best Canary.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:45
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Captain Mog posted:Or how Moira saved thousands of lives? I mean technically she did, but everyone that died was still her fault for not speaking out until the last second. I'm glad shes dead 
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Oct 10, 2014 01:46
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BrianWilly posted:I don't want to get too deeply into this because I'm sure I've already exceeded the upper limit of talking about this specific topic on this forum, but that's really only one part of fridging; it's really a mix of death, disempowerment, and gratuity. The original Women in Refrigerators website that Gail Simone started, for instance, didn't just list off girlfriend that got killed to make their boyfriends sad; it was a list of all female characters in comics that got somehow shuffled off the stage by way of death or disempowerment, as an examination of why there were so few active, powerful female superheroes that writers could write about, thereby examining the difference between how female characters were treated in those instances versus male characters in comparable situations. I have to disagree in the case of Moira - Her death was virtuous, she stood up and insisted that slade kill her, so that her children would both survive. Slade even commended her honour. It's no worse than Tommy's death.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:04
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DFu4ever posted:Honestly, I'm so tired of this term. It's watered down to the point of uselessness. Every time a female character dies in a show with a male main character, they've now been fridged. Why doesn't this apply to male characters that die solely to motivate or move the main male character's story forward? Making characters exist to die to give others growth is a poo poo thing and Shado and Sara deserved better. Moira's death by contrast was awesome because not only did they make an entire episode around reminding us of a key part of her character (do anything to protect her family) that her getting stabbed by Slade was a great moment if a horrifying one. If Sara had been killed in the last episode of last season as some sort of statement either on her doubting her ability to be heroic or part of her giving into her darker parts that would have been fine. Taking three to the chest and limply falling over pales compared to Moira or Tommy. Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 02:08 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 02:06
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Bad Moon posted:Making characters exist to die to give others growth is a poo poo thing Cool. They didn't do that.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:07
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Bad Moon posted:Making characters exist to die to give others growth is a poo poo thing and Shado and Sara deserved better. Moira's death by contrast was awesome because not only did they make an entire episode around reminding us of a key part of her character (do anything to protect her family) that her getting stabbed by Slade was a great moment if a horrifying one. If Sarah had been killed in the last episode of last season as some sort of statement either on her doubting her ability to be heroic that would have been fine. Okay, I'm not happy that Sara died, but you're completely ignoring that Tommy's death was pretty much the epitome of "dying for character growth." gently caress, Ollie even says so in the opening narration.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:09
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DFu4ever posted:Honestly, I'm so tired of this term. It's watered down to the point of uselessness. Every time a female character dies in a show with a male main character, they've now been fridged. Why doesn't this apply to male characters that die solely to motivate or move the main male character's story forward? "Fridged" and "problematic" are both worthless terms and I can't believe they're in the Arrow thread. We haven't seen literally any of the fallout over Sara's death - maybe wait and see what she died for before determining it was purely "sexist character motivation?" Introducing a villain by taking out one of the strongest characters on the show is pretty intense. Sara stood toe to toe with everyone we've seen thus far; this wasn't some helpless-love-interest death.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:10
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^^^Taking out Sarah by shooting her while she stood there gawking really doesn't say anything for the villain. Good job being better at archery than Season 1 Flashback Ollie I guess?Aphrodite posted:Cool. They didn't do that. Yeah, that was more a response to the idea that some characters exist to die. I think that's dumb writing and bad narrative. Sarah wasn't one of those, which actually makes me madder because I don't agree with how they handled it, as far as this episode goes. JohnSherman posted:Okay, I'm not happy that Sara died, but you're completely ignoring that Tommy's death was pretty much the epitome of "dying for character growth." gently caress, Ollie even says so in the opening narration. Tommy died saving Laurel, and they had significant screen time to him doing it. I wish he was around because he was a cool character and they could have done cool things with him but his death was handled a lot better. PS: I'd be mad if they did this in as dumb a way to Laurel too. After her Drunken Rebirth she isn't nearly as annoying. Its Rinaldo fucked around with this message at 02:19 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 02:10
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I don't go near Tumblr, but anyone who does, are Olicity shippers rending garments and gnashing teeth after last nights episode?
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Oct 10, 2014 02:11
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Yes we are.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:14
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Nobody knows why Sara died yet, who killed her, or what it's going to spur other character to do or don't do. Shut up about this dumb fridging crap.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:23
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Deadpool posted:Shut up about this dumb fridging crap. What about the other fridging that was done this episode. That of Oliver and Felicity's relationship?
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Oct 10, 2014 02:28
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BSam posted:What about the other fridging that was done this episode. That of Oliver and Felicity's relationship? They just tied that into Oliver's character arc for the season. Expecting them to start up a relationship without some drama at this stage - especially in episode 1 and given Oliver's character thus far - is a bit silly.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:47
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DFu4ever posted:Honestly, I'm so tired of this term. It's watered down to the point of uselessness. Every time a female character dies in a show with a male main character, they've now been fridged. Why doesn't this apply to male characters that die solely to motivate or move the main male character's story forward? As I've said, fridging has never completely just been about characters dying to motivate other characters. The original source of the term doesn't even mention that aspect at all. As far as I can tell, that narrow "dying to motivate others" definition has been constructed and utilized mostly by people trying to downplay the trend. And as I've also said, Tommy did get fridged, but the context and depiction of his death is completely different from Sara's. Tommy's death makes him look better. Sara's death makes her look powerless. Would Sara's death have been better if she had gone out in a blaze of heroic glory instead of being disempowered and punk'd for shock value? Who knows, because it didn't happen...as it rarely ever does when it comes to female character deaths, which have a habit of being ignominious and violently gratuitous.
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Oct 10, 2014 02:54
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I mean, it's not as if she worked for a guy whose entire schtick involves coming back from the dead and who seemingly has already brought a different character back from the dead. I'd be shocked if she didn't come back in some way.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:39
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Wait, are you implying Ra's al Ghul brought Merlyn back to life? When Moira contacted Ra's to tell him Merlyn was still alive because Ra's wants to kill him?
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Oct 10, 2014 03:45
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Polaron posted:I mean, it's not as if she worked for a guy whose entire schtick involves coming back from the dead and who seemingly has already brought a different character back from the dead. I don't know. Once you start doing that, it really just cheapens character deaths as a whole. See also: Every comic book ever. Merlyn wasn't resurrected so much as Ollie never confirmed he was dead. Sara was hit with 3 arrows and fell a few stories onto concrete. She's dead, as annoying as it is to admit it.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:48
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Some Numbers posted:Wait, are you implying Ra's al Ghul brought Merlyn back to life? When Moira contacted Ra's to tell him Merlyn was still alive because Ra's wants to kill him?  Forgot about that particular tidbit 
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Oct 10, 2014 03:49
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As ridiculous and implausible as it is, how hysterical would it be if she was just seriously injured and the promo was a fakeout? This whole argument would have been a total waste.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:03
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The Lord Bude posted:As ridiculous and implausible as it is, how hysterical would it be if she was just seriously injured and the promo was a fakeout? This whole argument would have been a total waste. The gravestone shown on the promo could have been from when she was "dead" after being lost at sea
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Oct 10, 2014 04:29
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The Lord Bude posted:As ridiculous and implausible as it is, how hysterical would it be if she was just seriously injured and the promo was a fakeout? This whole argument would have been a total waste. You mean someone left the fridge door open?
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Oct 10, 2014 04:30
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Deadpool posted:Nobody knows why Sara died yet, who killed her, or what it's going to spur other character to do or don't do. Shut up about this dumb fridging crap. I assumed it was Barrowman who killed her since he gone rogue last season and was all scared Ra's was going to ice him. Preemptive strike.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:35
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The arrows were black, so the killer was clearly Baby Diggle.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:45
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Drifter posted:
Holy poo poo, I need this to happen like a tree needs air.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:59
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In terms of motivations, Oliver hasn't really been affected by losing Moira - his character arc is largely unchanged. But you couldn't send Thea out to train with BARROWMAN without eliminating Moira. Of all the thread the show is promising in season 3, I'm looking forward to Thea getting her own slice of the action.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:07
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B.B. Rodriguez posted:I assumed it was Barrowman who killed her since he gone rogue last season and was all scared Ra's was going to ice him. Preemptive strike. Merlyn and Sara have never met or interacted at any point. Neither of them knows who the other is. The archer and Sara clearly knew each other. And before someone says "they met in the League! " Merlyn's time in the League was right after his wife died, which was when Tommy and Oliver were kids. He was already done and back in Starling City BEFORE Oliver and Sara got shipwrecked.
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Oct 10, 2014 05:13
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