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Would you mind giving me an example? If we're going head to head, I should just attack him outright? The Ion cannon doesn't seem like it would do much in that situation if it won't negate his attack. The only way I could see it is if he has a target lock and uses it to try to negate the damage. Still really new to the game, so I'm just wondering what's up. Also, to get rid of my cloak token, I need to move then execute a barrel roll as my action correct? The green 2 forward won't do that for me. Thanks for clearing this up!
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Oct 8, 2014 19:28
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Well, you can ion him, it forces him to do a 1 speed straight next round and then you k-turn behind him. I don't understand what you mean by 'target locks negating damage', TLs can only be used when attacking to re-roll, not defending. You don't need to barrel roll to get rid of cloak tokens. You can decide to get rid of them before you move in order to decloak and get the 2 speed boost/barrel roll immediately before you actually do the movement on your movement dial.
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Oct 8, 2014 19:32
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Tekopo posted:Well, you can ion him, it forces him to do a 1 speed straight next round and then you k-turn behind him. I don't understand what you mean by 'target locks negating damage', TLs can only be used when attacking to re-roll, not defending. OH! So, he needs to move one straight so if I get behind him, he's going to be hosed! NICE! Also, didn't know that about defending with TL. And thanks again for clearing that up. The decloaking doesn't take an action, remove it, get a boost or a barrel roll, then move. Makes things easier. Last question for the time being, thanks again for the help. If we are both in range one, and in direct path, if he tries to do a 5 move turn around (K turn) he over shoots me, not runs into me correct?
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Oct 8, 2014 19:34
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Soulex posted:
Correct. If he lands in you that's when the movement stops and the 180 doesn't happen.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:04
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So if you do no head on collision, the only way to get to moving again is a barrel roll if you can do one. Wow.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:09
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Soulex posted:So if you do no head on collision, the only way to get to moving again is a barrel roll if you can do one. Wow. Not sure what you mean by get moving again. If he moves first and K turns on top of you that ships move is over and he can't perform an action, then you move freely. If you move first and he then moves and lands on top of you the same thing happens and the 2 touching ships can't shoot each other. Next move phase then happens normally.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:18
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Like for example. Sometimes my friend and I go head to head and we were under the false assumption you can over shoot. I move forward and am clear. He moves forward and rams me. We are now nose to nose. The next round, since we are blocking each other from moving forward, how do we continue movement when any movement would cause another collision?
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Oct 8, 2014 20:28
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You aren't really ever "blocked" from moving. The game is assuming the action is really happening in space. Unless your move lands directly touching another base it's assumed you fly under or over a ship.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:34
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Soulex posted:Like for example. Sometimes my friend and I go head to head and we were under the false assumption you can over shoot. I move forward and am clear. He moves forward and rams me. We are now nose to nose. The next round, since we are blocking each other from moving forward, how do we continue movement when any movement would cause another collision? Maneuver gauges don't cause collisions with other ships. Collisions only occur if the bases would overlap. Gauges do cause collisions with asteroids, though.
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Oct 8, 2014 20:35
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Soulex posted:Like for example. Sometimes my friend and I go head to head and we were under the false assumption you can over shoot. I move forward and am clear. He moves forward and rams me. We are now nose to nose. The next round, since we are blocking each other from moving forward, how do we continue movement when any movement would cause another collision? As long as bases aren't overlapping at the end of the move, you don't collide. If they are overlapping, you stop short so that your bases are just touching instead. If you can fit past them, you're fine, you get your action like usual, etc. If you do ram a ship where your base overlaps, you lose your action and you can't shoot anything you're in base contact with. If you ram and you were attempting a k-turn, you don't turn around, you stay facing the original way. If you ram, you do still get the effects of the maneuver if it was red or green! So, even if you collide during a green move, you'd still at least lose a stress token, and if it was red (like a k-turn) you'd still gain a stress token. If someone runs into your ship, nothing happens to you as long as whatever move you make can get you past the other ship still. To add to the confusion, if your movement template does cross over an asteroid, you still lose your action and take a damage die roll, but you can still shoot if you have a target. Landing on an asteroid, or crossing over one, doesn't prevent you from turning around in a k-turn, though, unlike hitting another ship. tl;dr: don't hit ships while attempting a k-turn, you fail to turn around and end up stressed, it suuuuucks. Slab Squatthrust fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 8, 2014 |
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Oct 8, 2014 21:16
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Thanks for the clarification guys. So collisions only happen at the end. If he has enough to move past me he does. Thanks!
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Oct 8, 2014 22:41
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I've got another tournament this weekend, and yet again I'm torn between two lists: Lando Calrissian (44) Veteran Instincts (1) C-3PO (3) Jan Ors (2) Millennium Falcon (1) Blue Squadron Pilot (22) Ion Cannon (3) Blue Squadron Pilot (22) Flechette Torpedoes (2) Munitions Failsafe (1) Total: 100 Or Keyan Farlander (29) Push the Limit (3) Advanced Sensors (3) Engine Upgrade (4) Ten Numb (31) Swarm Tactics (2) Fire-Control System (2) Ion Cannon (3) Gold Squadron Pilot (18) Ion Cannon Turret (5) Total: 100 I think both have some serious potential against either Phantom lists or other B-wing heavy lists, especially with the way Ion tokens interact with Advanced Sensors and Cloaking. Thoughts?
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Oct 10, 2014 16:49
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How enjoyable would this game be just out of the box? I've had my eye on it for awhile and I'm thinking about picking it up this weekend but don't know when I'll get around to grabbing more models than what's already in the box. Basically will it have a dozen or so games of fun right out of the box?
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Oct 10, 2014 19:05
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Len posted:How enjoyable would this game be just out of the box? I've had my eye on it for awhile and I'm thinking about picking it up this weekend but don't know when I'll get around to grabbing more models than what's already in the box. Basically will it have a dozen or so games of fun right out of the box? Probably not. There's only so much you can do with one X-Wing and two TIEs. And a bunch of those things, like putting R2-D2 on Luke, are going to lead to crappy games.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:18
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You can learn with the core set, but grabbing an extra Tie Fighter and X-Wing wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:22
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That brings up another question. I've been playing for months, yet haven't touched any of the scenarios in the rule book. I pretty much convinced a friend to start collecting after playing him in an evenly matched 60 vs. 60 demo game, but after trouncing him in a 100 vs. 100 game I think he might need more practice before going on a pay-to-win shopping spree. Are any of them worth the time or are they just filler?
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Oct 10, 2014 19:27
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Ballpoint Penguin posted:I've got another tournament this weekend, and yet again I'm torn between two lists: Either of these lists will get worked over hard by any decent phantom list/player and wouldnt be able to keep up damage wise verse B-wing swarm lists. Not having gunner/luke on your falcon makes it basically impossible to hit a phantom or soontir and the ion cannons/turrets neuter your damage output. If you dont want to spend points on Han, chewie really should be your only other choice for single falcon lists. You're at 100 points so Lando plus VI wont win you initiative verse things that matter like phantoms because phantoms will always make a decent initiative bid. Not to mention, without Engine Upgrade, there is no real reason to try and get your pilot skill that high. Ten Numb isnt really a competitive ship, hes to expensive for what he brings and using an ion cannon with him is a terrible terrible idea. Yeah you might be guaranteed an ion but you need all your fire power to stand a chance with a three ship list even more so when one of them is a y-wing ion turret. One of your b-wings will be dead second turn and you wont kill anything after that. If you wanted to keep the general list structure I would probably do something like Chewie with Predator/C-3PO/Luke/Falcon + 2 Blue Squadron 100 points Keyan with Advanced Sensors/VI + Gold Squadron with Ion Turret + 2 Blue Squadron 100 points
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Oct 10, 2014 20:42
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Going to give this a whirl in our local games, just purely for entertainment factor and the ongoing crusade to use A-Wings with Outmaneuver to counteract their two attack dice. Two Initiative 10 Pilots is fairly terrifying, and I can't leave Jake alone, he's just too much fun: ===================== Initiative Double Tap ===================== Corran Horn (44) E-Wing (35), R2-D2 (4), Flechette Torpedo (2), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1) Jake Farrell (28) A-Wing (24), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Push the Limit (3), Outmaneuver (3) Tycho Celchu (28) A-Wing (26), A-Wing Test Pilot (0), Chardaan Refit (-2), Outmaneuver (3), Veteran Instincts (1)
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Oct 11, 2014 18:09
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I can see why you did it, but not getting PtL on Tycho kind of feels wrong to me, considering his special ability is made to exploit PtL as much as possible.
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Oct 11, 2014 18:32
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No idea they had Tycho and Corran. I loved those guys! So is the go to stat for imperial typically a tie rush? Trying to figure out how to bolster my squad a little bit. It seems weak imperial side even with phantom
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Oct 11, 2014 19:26
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Yep. Get Howlrunner and 3 TIEs and watch those Rebel scum melt. Edit. Also learn how to fly in formation.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:29
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The TIE swarm is still the best way to go for Imperials, especially as a new player. They're great because they mitigate the effects of manoeuvring mistakes and of losing ships - each TIE only has 2 attack and 3 hull (which is bad), but they also have 3 defence (this is great) and there's 7-8 of them which makes for a respectable number of attack dice, and losing one TIE only means you've lost one seventh/eighth of your offensive power. The best tip I can give you for formation flying is to deploy in blocks of four in a staggered two-line formation with half a ship base between every fighter, (like so), that way you have the spacing you need to not bump when all your ships make the same turn. The only thing that comes close to a TIE swarm in terms of effectiveness is a Phantom list, but that's a lot harder to fly (because it's a list with a small number of highly agile ships that really need their actions to survive and deal damage, so bumping once is usually fatal). There are some people who will argue a Phantom list is actually better once you know how to fly it, but that's meta dependent (mine has a lot of high PS turrets). Sadly, Imperials don't have nearly as many good options as Rebels, especially now that Rebel Aces is out.  Interceptors are pretty seriously over-costed (Soontir Fel is nice, but he's exceedingly fragile and very expensive and strictly worse than Tycho), Bombers are so situational you don't want to fly one in a "serious" list (but that's because they're ordnance platforms) and the Advanced x1 is a bad ship with one good pilot (Vader). The Defender is nice, but it's expensive enough that you can't easily run more than one, and it has very few options (unlike the Rebel B-wing, which is probably the closest fighter to it in terms of role), plus it's butt-ugly.  As far as large ships go, the Shuttle is very interesting but pretty odd and requires a bunch of upgrades from other packs to be good (not an issue if you're proxying at home), and the Firespray is a good ship that comes with good upgrade cards, but neither really hold a candle to YT-1300 in terms of power or customisation options. At least they've said Interceptors and the Advanced are due some buffs in the future, but in the meantime Rebels are way more fun to build lists for and to fly. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 01:09 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 01:05
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Well. I ended up getting the imperial Aces, Slave 1, and an A Wing today. Gonna try a regular Tie Formation tonight. I got the slave 1 and Aces largely because of the Bwing poo poo my friend and I use (we borrow each others ships for games) and Rebels always win. I'm hoping to turn the tide with that. Thanks for the advice though, I am definitely wanting to make this a fun game to play around with, especially till Armada comes out and in between LCG.
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Oct 12, 2014 01:39
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Here is a good post about formations http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/915993/maneuvers-101-lots-pictures
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Oct 12, 2014 01:52
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Interceptors are pretty seriously over-costed (Soontir Fel is nice, but he's exceedingly fragile and very expensive and strictly worse than Tycho) Fel is not strictly worse than Tycho. His 3 attack dice are better than Tycho's 2 and his 9 pilot skill can generally be regarded as an improvement. He gives up barrel rolls and a second mod slot for target locks and a second EPT, not to mention that their pilot skills are pretty different. It's possible that his lower cost, extra hit point, and that green 5 straight are generally worth what he gives up, but "strictly worse" means a very specific thing.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:06
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The TIE swarm is still the best way to go for Imperials, especially as a new player. They're great because they mitigate the effects of manoeuvring mistakes and of losing ships - each TIE only has 2 attack and 3 hull (which is bad), but they also have 3 defence (this is great) and there's 7-8 of them which makes for a respectable number of attack dice, and losing one TIE only means you've lost one seventh/eighth of your offensive power. This is kind of an insane post. TIE Swarm isn't really the "best" way to go for Imperials, especially as a new player. It is expensive and requires a lot of practice. Soontir Fel is one of the, if not the best, pilots in the game, and at 27 points is a steal. Pilot skill is huge now and he is one of the best, with a great ability, a great dial, barrel roll and boost, 3 defense dice and 3 attack dice. Calling him worse than Tycho is just  Saying Interceptors are over-costed...Royal Guard Pilots are one of the best values in the game.Naked shuttles like Yorr work great now after the Phantom joined the game. Even a Shuttle with Vader aboard is a great use of points. YT-1300 has a ton of options, just like the Decimator.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:23
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After our group picked up Rebel Aces and having gotten to see that amazing A-Wing dial in action I am itching to grab Interceptors for the Imperial side. That dial with Boost, Barrel Roll and 3 Firepower? Yes please. I've always been a fan of Turr Phennir with VI when I play on Vassal just for that stress-free Boost or Roll after you make your attack.
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Oct 12, 2014 02:35
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TouchToneDialing posted:Either of these lists will get worked over hard by any decent phantom list/player and wouldnt be able to keep up damage wise verse B-wing swarm lists. Not having gunner/luke on your falcon makes it basically impossible to hit a phantom or soontir and the ion cannons/turrets neuter your damage output. Ended up running the Lando + 2 Blue Squad pilots list, and came in second. First 3 rounds were all wins and I played against 2 Phantom lists and a Farlander heavy Bwing list. The semi-final was against another Farlander list, and I lost the final to a brutal Fat Han list. In the end Lando is ok, but I think it's worth dropping 2 points elsewhere to upgrade Lando to Han.
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Oct 12, 2014 04:50
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Pretty happy about my allegiance to the dark side: I only have an A wing, B wing and X wing on the alliance side but am going to strengthen it soon. Probably another B wing or the Falcon.
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Oct 12, 2014 08:14
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alg posted:This is kind of an insane post. TIE Swarm isn't really the "best" way to go for Imperials, especially as a new player. It is expensive and requires a lot of practice. Soontir Fel is one of the, if not the best, pilots in the game, and at 27 points is a steal. Pilot skill is huge now and he is one of the best, with a great ability, a great dial, barrel roll and boost, 3 defense dice and 3 attack dice. Calling him worse than Tycho is just In terms of difference between them, you have 2 shields/2 hull vs 3 hull (shield is much better than hull on all accounts, for a start), same dial but 5 green on the A-wing, Fel having a comparable ability to Tycho (EI will make Tycho a whole lot better because he can forget about the stress action economy), either higher PS or more flexibility on EPT on Tycho, 3 attack dice over 2 for the A-wing (this is a considerable advantage though) and the ability to barrel roll for the intie (a considerable advantage for the tie interceptor), the A-wing having a targeting computer (a considerable advantage, although this can be circumvented for two additional points on the intie) and the fact that the intie can take two modifications (although this does increase the cost). So really, the only advantages that Fel has over Tycho is the barrel roll and 3 attack dice, but with the disadvantages of less overall hitpoints (and having only hull), a insignificantly worse dial and either lower PS or less flexibility on EPTs. If you compare to Jake Farrell to Fel, you have the same PS (if you take VI) and you remove the advantage of barrel rolling that the Intie has over the a-wing, for 26 over 30 points. I think most of the inties that can take PtL are priced correctly, but any that can't I would agree are overcosted. There is no real reason to buy low PS inties or take any of the named pilots that don't have EPT. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 09:58
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Tekopo posted:I can see why you did it, but not getting PtL on Tycho kind of feels wrong to me, considering his special ability is made to exploit PtL as much as possible. It feels wrong to me too.  I'll probably consider swapping his Outmanoeuvre for PtL before too long anyway, or guess on Initiative and try to fit in both over VI. (This would entail swapping around Corran a bit to make the two points I'd need back, probably by switching which Astromech he's running)
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Oct 12, 2014 10:21
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Tekopo posted:Tycho easily has more pilot skill than Fel, because he can always use that second EPT to get VI, pushing him up to 10 PS. Since Fel needs to get PtL, it means that Tycho post Rebel Aces will always have more PS on a Fel. And if getting to PS 10 isn't important for the Tycho player, he can always get another EPT rather than VI. A Tycho with Chaardan, VI and PtL will set you back 28 over 30 points for a Fel with PtL. I think you are undervaluing the extra attack die and barrel roll, but even when you compare a Prototype Pilot (15 points with Chardaan Refit) to an Alpha Squadron Pilot (18 pts) calling them over-costed is sort of silly. Is there a reason to take them? Probably not, but there are other Interceptor pilots worth taking, unlike say, Y-Wings, or all named B-Wing pilots outside of Keyan Fartlander. Talk about overcosted, look at Ten Numb.
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Oct 12, 2014 14:26
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And I think you are undervaluing 2 shields/2 hull over 3 hull, or the ability to have two EPTs over just having one, especially with EI coming out soon. Like, I don't think I am undervaluing the 3 attack dice/ barrel roll for high PS inties, but for low one, would you really take an 18 point intie over a 12 point academy pilot? I think if there is no situation in which you would take one ship over another, that ship can be considered overcosted. The A-wing was certainly overcosted, hence why they brought out chaardan refit. Also, I mentioned that I think that intie pilots with EPT are fine, which are all the ones which you probably mentioned are worth taking. Saying that Y-Wings aren't worth taking is like saying Bombers aren't worth taking, which is not what I am arguing here. I can see why Ten Numb is overcosted though, although only in comparison to Farlander: two points for a shittier ability and only one more PS is a crappy deal, I agree. EDIT: Also the barrel roll advantage is removed on Tycho if you take expert handling/EI on Tycho, although I guess by that point being 32 points might not be worth it, or just flying Jake, a pilot that has the ability to do three actions per turn much like Fel , has the same PS as Fel (if you take VI) and has barrel rolls, for 4 points less (i've included VI in this). I think the driving point here is that some of the pilots in Rebel Aces are extremely good. Tekopo fucked around with this message at 14:49 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 14:39
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alg posted:Naked shuttles like Yorr work great now after the Phantom joined the game. Even a Shuttle with Vader aboard is a great use of points. I forgot the shuttle comes with Advanced Sensors, so yeah, you're right about that part. They're still pretty hard to fly as a non-support ship without Engine Upgrade unless you go for a Doomshuttle specifically, but they're so cheap it hardly matters, I guess. Tekopo posted:And I think you are undervaluing 2 shields/2 hull over 3 hull, or the ability to have two EPTs over just having one, especially with EI coming out soon. Yeah, 2s/2h means an A-wing won't die to/be made useless by a lucky crit. Really, the problem is crits. They're a loving atrocious mechanic, and I'm convinced FFG didn't really understand the impact they have on the game when they costed some of the earlier ships. If they got dropped entirely or at least were cancellable first, the game would be even better. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 15:17 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 15:00
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Tekopo posted:And I think you are undervaluing 2 shields/2 hull over 3 hull, or the ability to have two EPTs over just having one, especially with EI coming out soon. Like, I don't think I am undervaluing the 3 attack dice/ barrel roll for high PS inties, but for low one, would you really take an 18 point intie over a 12 point academy pilot? It may be the prevalence of HLC in my meta (or that nobody plays Etahn Abaht). Cancelling one (perhaps two) possible crits isn't as valuable to me as firing with an extra die every time, especially with superior arc dodging. quote:I think if there is no situation in which you would take one ship over another, that ship can be considered overcosted. The A-wing was certainly overcosted, hence why they brought out chaardan refit. This isn't as big a deal as it seems, though. This is true of every ship in the game. Who would ever take a Knave Squadron Pilot over a Rookie Pilot, even with Knave's barrel roll? quote:Also, I mentioned that I think that intie pilots with EPT are fine, which are all the ones which you probably mentioned are worth taking. Saying that Y-Wings aren't worth taking is like saying Bombers aren't worth taking, which is not what I am arguing here. Interceptors have more options, though. Y-Wings pretty much just have Gold Squadron Pilot, which was what I was getting at. quote:I can see why Ten Numb is overcosted though, although only in comparison to Farlander: two points for a shittier ability and only one more PS is a crappy deal, I agree. Jake is definitely a cool pilot, but without Expose/PTL I doubt I would fly him again. Maybe Predator or Outmaneuver, I guess. The 2 attack dice has been crippling in every game I've flown him. Lemon Curdistan posted:Really, the problem is crits. They're a loving atrocious mechanic, and I'm convinced FFG didn't really understand the impact they have on the game when they costed some of the earlier ships. If they got dropped entirely or at least were cancellable first, the game would be even better. There are already ways to mitigate crits. Dropping or cancelling them first would require a complete overhaul of the game's balance and the points of every existing ship. Crits help reflect the nature of space combat. Just dealing each other damage cards would be boring as hell.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:24
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alg posted:It may be the prevalence of HLC in my meta (or that nobody plays Etahn Abaht). Cancelling one (perhaps two) possible crits isn't as valuable to me as firing with an extra die every time, especially with superior arc dodging. Also, and I'll repeat it, I think the high PS pilots are fine and are pretty comparable to the price of A-wings. quote:This isn't as big a deal as it seems, though. This is true of every ship in the game. Who would ever take a Knave Squadron Pilot over a Rookie Pilot, even with Knave's barrel roll? quote:Interceptors have more options, though. Y-Wings pretty much just have Gold Squadron Pilot, which was what I was getting at. I think the thing that hurts the TIE Interceptor especially is lack of access to EPT and inability to really make Intie swarms because at most you will be able to fit 5 of them in. This is probably a problem with all low PS fighters that rely on arc-dodging to get out of trouble. For the A-Wing, almost all of the pilots have access to EPT now and I think if a similar access had been granted to to the Intie it certainly make a lot more of the named pilots viable over what is currently happening. quote:Jake is definitely a cool pilot, but without Expose/PTL I doubt I would fly him again. Maybe Predator or Outmaneuver, I guess. The 2 attack dice has been crippling in every game I've flown him.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:52
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Soontir Fel with two EPTs  Whatever they do to "fix" Interceptors they are going to have to weigh against Fel.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:59
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 I think the premium for high-PS pilots is fine but for low PS you want them as cheap as possible. Not only is maneuverability less valued the lower the PS, but the cheapest Z is still PS2 which counts for something during comparisons. I finally found a card protector that can fit my large Han card so in a couple months I will actually have Harrison ford inside the falcon.
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Oct 12, 2014 16:03
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There could always be a stipulation for a refit downgrade card to be applicable to PS- pilots only.
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Oct 12, 2014 16:05
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Chill la Chill posted:I finally found a card protector that can fit my large Han card so in a couple months I will actually have Harrison ford inside the falcon. you gotta link that
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Oct 12, 2014 16:06
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