Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

«‹›1137 »

SlothfulCobra: Mar 27, 2011

Are there any remnants left of the massive network of Trenches from WWI left, or were they all filled in?

# ? Oct 10, 2014 18:42

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 07:07

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

A few places have been kept like they were as a memento. You could ask how saturated the earth is with fragments of steel and tnt in certain areas.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:06

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

SlothfulCobra posted:

Are there any remnants left of the massive network of Trenches from WWI left, or were they all filled in?

Oh they're all over Belgium and France.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:08

Koramei: Nov 11, 2011; I have three regrets
The first is to be born in Joseon.

here's an article with pictures of some:

Koramei posted:

Some WW1 battlefields 100 years later.

if there are any more people can post that'd be cool too they're really interesting to look at.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:11

Chamale: Jul 11, 2010; I'm helping!

Are people allowed to walk through those trenches, or are they considered too historic to enter?

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:13

Alchenar: Apr 9, 2008

AATREK CURES KIDS posted:

Are people allowed to walk through those trenches, or are they considered too historic to enter?

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/french-flanders-artois/museum-interpretive-centre-vimy-memorial-park.htm

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:21

MA-Horus: Dec 3, 2006; I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am.

I remember you could do tours of the trenches and tunnels at Vimy.

They were most uncomfortable even for a 12 year old.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:39

Hogge Wild: Aug 21, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Pillbug

SlothfulCobra posted:

Are there any remnants left of the massive network of Trenches from WWI left, or were they all filled in?

Krepost Sveaborg in Helsinki:

Some parts of the fortification system was used in the Finnish Civil War when the Finnish Reds defended against the German Empire.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 19:43

xthetenth: Dec 30, 2012; Mario wasn't sure if this Jeb guy was a good influence on Yoshi.

GreyjoyBastard posted:

Because General Winfield Scott was one of the finest generals in history.

A lot of it boils down to officers and artillery, but generally Mexico was in pretty bad shape and the US units were competent at least, and they continually got put in good positions to do a lot of damage.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 20:04

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

AATREK CURES KIDS posted:

Are people allowed to walk through those trenches, or are they considered too historic to enter?

The Newfoundland Memorial at the Somme still has the outlines of Canadian and German trenches. Visitors can walk through them. Well worth a visit if you're ever in that part of France.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/somme/memorial-newfoundland-park.htm

If you go to Verdun, there's still loads of trenches, shell craters, pillboxes, and forts intact (Fort Douaumont is the big one). It's so pitted that if you park you car by the side of the road, get out and walk 10 feet into the forest you'll run into a shell crater.

I've got some pictures I'll try to post later when I've got my camera handy.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 20:05

PittTheElder: Feb 13, 2012; Yes, it's like a lava lamp.

Speaking of old trenches, has anybody ever produced any colourized photographs of the trenches during the actual conflict? Based on the black and white images I'm used to thinking of the entire trench network as just exposed earth everywhere, and I imagine with the shelling that comes with a major offensive that's probably true, but most of the time I expect there must have been grasses growing along the line, and wooded areas to be properly wooded. I'd really like to see that if it exists.

I think it was Our World War that got me thinking about that, I can't imagine how claustrophobic it would have been to be fighting in a thick wood.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 22:25

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

PittTheElder posted:

I was just going to ask, wasn't there a rather notable amount of Scottish mercenaries running about in the 30YW? I seem to remember there being a whole Scottish company/regiment/I don't know the right word for the size of guys employed by either the Danes or Swedes, and their commander seemed to be something of a big deal.

The Green Brigade, in the Swedish army, under Monro. They were a big deal until Noerdlingen, when they got decimated from assaulting a Spanish field fortification (with a bunch of Southern Italians behind it :agesilaus:

) uphill and were never really a fighting unit after that.

Edit:
VVVVVV

Trin Tragula posted:

(No 100 Years Ago tonight; I offer the excuse given to Major Chater Jack in Tunisia.)

Same. The reenactment season follows the pre-1649 fighting season, which means I have nothing to do on the weekends any more.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:08 on Oct 11, 2014

# ? Oct 10, 2014 23:42

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

(No 100 Years Ago tonight; I offer the excuse given to Major Chater Jack in Tunisia.)

PittTheElder posted:

Speaking of old trenches, has anybody ever produced any colourized photographs of the trenches during the actual conflict? Based on the black and white images I'm used to thinking of the entire trench network as just exposed earth everywhere, and I imagine with the shelling that comes with a major offensive that's probably true, but most of the time I expect there must have been grasses growing along the line, and wooded areas to be properly wooded. I'd really like to see that if it exists.

I think it was Our World War that got me thinking about that, I can't imagine how claustrophobic it would have been to be fighting in a thick wood.

There was an entire series of The First World War in Colour on ITV some years ago. Fortunately, a helpful person has uploaded it all to a popular video-sharing website, if you just do a search for those terms.

# ? Oct 10, 2014 23:46

FAUXTON: Jun 2, 2005; spero che tu stia bene

PittTheElder posted:

Speaking of old trenches, has anybody ever produced any colourized photographs of the trenches during the actual conflict? Based on the black and white images I'm used to thinking of the entire trench network as just exposed earth everywhere, and I imagine with the shelling that comes with a major offensive that's probably true, but most of the time I expect there must have been grasses growing along the line, and wooded areas to be properly wooded. I'd really like to see that if it exists.

I think it was Our World War that got me thinking about that, I can't imagine how claustrophobic it would have been to be fighting in a thick wood.

http://worldwaronecolorphotos.com/

There are other places you can find color/colorized photos - The Telegraph has some from the German lines that show a lot of trench life, I believe it's the same process that Russian guy used around the turn of the century, except a little lower-fidelity because war does that to sensitive equipment.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 00:02

Bacarruda: Mar 30, 2011; Mutiny!?! More like "reinterpreted orders"

PittTheElder posted:

Speaking of old trenches, has anybody ever produced any colourized photographs of the trenches during the actual conflict? Based on the black and white images I'm used to thinking of the entire trench network as just exposed earth everywhere, and I imagine with the shelling that comes with a major offensive that's probably true, but most of the time I expect there must have been grasses growing along the line, and wooded areas to be properly wooded. I'd really like to see that if it exists.

I think it was Our World War that got me thinking about that, I can't imagine how claustrophobic it would have been to be fighting in a thick wood.

There are some good color photos here. Some of them weren't even hand-colorized, they were actually taken using primitive color film.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/parker/news/colour-photos-of-world-war-i/
http://lightbox.time.com/2013/11/11/rare-color-photographs-from-the-trenches-of-world-war-i/#6

# ? Oct 11, 2014 00:16

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Bacarruda posted:

There are some good color photos here. Some of them weren't even hand-colorized, they were actually taken using primitive color film.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/parker/news/colour-photos-of-world-war-i/
http://lightbox.time.com/2013/11/11/rare-color-photographs-from-the-trenches-of-world-war-i/#6

It's striking, and a little bit sad, that this guy is walking around next to early modern technology.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 00:30

Pornographic Memory: Dec 17, 2008

He doesn't look very happy standing around in possibly the world's biggest basket.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 00:34

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Pornographic Memory posted:

He doesn't look very happy standing around in possibly the world's biggest basket.

That's gabions, homes. The sandbag of the early modern. What he is standing in would not be out of place three or four hundred years earlier, save for the planks on the floor which were obviously made by an industrial process.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Oct 11, 2014

# ? Oct 11, 2014 00:39

Saint Celestine: Dec 17, 2008; Lay a fire within your soul and another between your hands, and let both be your weapons.
For one is faith and the other is victory and neither may ever be put out.
- Saint Sabbat, Lessons; Grimey Drawer

Thats the neatest trench ive ever seen.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 01:53

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

In my period, you pay a dude to weave them--Welsh if you can get one, since they supposedly have the nimblest hands for wickerwork. Which is an oddly specific ethnic stereotype.

We're preparing for one of the biggest 30yw reenactments in Europe next year and a few friends of mine will be weaving gabions all winter long. Everything takes a long time in this period, and a lot of work.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 01:58

champagne posting: Apr 5, 2006; YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER

Is this why we have these long wars? 30 and 100 years sounds like a hell of a long war.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 02:07

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

Boiled Water posted:

Is this why we have these long wars? 30 and 100 years sounds like a hell of a long war.

poo poo keeps stopping around November and starting up again around May, over and over every year, while there's no such thing as a decisive battle in a world without really well-developed supply lines and in which you can always hire more people from...somewhere. So wars keep going as long as someone is willing to pump money into them, meanwhile from the 18th or 19th century point of view they look super desultory.

Edit: The same process but without keeping your army on over the winter is why the 1500s is full of strings of short wars. Dismiss your mercenaries every winter (with some famous exceptions) and hire them up again in the spring, over and over until the heat death of the universe or until the Valois and the Hapsburgs stop hating each other, whichever comes first.

HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 02:30 on Oct 11, 2014

# ? Oct 11, 2014 02:14

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

HEY GAL posted:

poo poo keeps stopping around November and starting up again around May, over and over every year, while there's no such thing as a decisive battle in a world without really well-developed supply lines and in which you can always hire more people from...somewhere. So wars keep going as long as someone is willing to pump money into them, meanwhile from the 18th or 19th century point of view they look super desultory.

Edit: The same process but without keeping your army on over the winter is why the 1500s is full of strings of short wars. Dismiss your mercenaries every winter (with some famous exceptions) and hire them up again in the spring, over and over until the heat death of the universe or until the Valois and the Hapsburgs stop hating each other, whichever comes first.

And hope that the mercs don't decide to stay in your country, "living off the land" instead of campaigning.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 04:57

Darth Brooks: Jan 15, 2005; I do not wear this mask to protect me. I wear it to protect you from me.

PittTheElder posted:

Speaking of old trenches, has anybody ever produced any colourized photographs of the trenches during the actual conflict? Based on the black and white images I'm used to thinking of the entire trench network as just exposed earth everywhere, and I imagine with the shelling that comes with a major offensive that's probably true, but most of the time I expect there must have been grasses growing along the line, and wooded areas to be properly wooded. I'd really like to see that if it exists.

I think it was Our World War that got me thinking about that, I can't imagine how claustrophobic it would have been to be fighting in a thick wood.

There's a real strong possibility the forest was gone in short order once the shelling started. There's a sequence in Band of Brothers where the WWII era G.I.'s were exposed to artillery that was a daily, if not hourly, experience for WWI vets. The Vets have said that the fear induced by having oak trees turned into toothpicks was the worse thing they went through.

This would have been a forest glade before the war.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 06:17

Phobophilia: Apr 26, 2008; by Hand Knit

HEY GAL posted:

In my period, you pay a dude to weave them--Welsh if you can get one, since they supposedly have the nimblest hands for wickerwork. Which is an oddly specific ethnic stereotype.

We're preparing for one of the biggest 30yw reenactments in Europe next year and a few friends of mine will be weaving gabions all winter long. Everything takes a long time in this period, and a lot of work.

I hope when world war 4 comes along and we're back in early industrial era warfare then oft mocked skills such as basket weaving come back in vogue and everyone who made fun of them in the past get laughed at.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 09:16

Frostwerks: Sep 24, 2007; by Lowtax

Phobophilia posted:

I hope when world war 4 comes along and we're back in early industrial era warfare then oft mocked skills such as basket weaving come back in vogue and everyone who made fun of them in the past get laughed at.

I graduated with a masters in applied underwater basketweaving and let me tell you, the grim dark future is surprisingly lucrative.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 09:46

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

SlothfulCobra posted:

Are there any remnants left of the massive network of Trenches from WWI left, or were they all filled in?

Earthworks are some of the most enduring of all human artifacts, and often persist thousands of years. If I can imagine any drudgery worse than digging ditches, its filling them back in.

Maiden castle in Dorset England, built first in 650 BC, expanded in 450. Many of the hills in Scotland and England are still dotted with earthen ramparts built during the bronze or iron age. This castle was abandoned after the Roman conquest. I was once told by a professor that in Scotland almost all of these sites have layers of ash and arrowheads whose dates match those of Roman expeditions north of Hadrian's Wall.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 11:07

Cyrano4747: Sep 25, 2006; Yes, I know I'm old, get off my fucking lawn so I can yell at these clouds.

Darth Brooks posted:

were exposed to artillery that was a daily, if not hourly, experience for WWI vets.

Ehhh, not quite. While it's true that WW1 saw a poo poo load of bombardment, and that harassing bombardment of enemy positions certainly happened, your average guy in the trenches during a normal stretch of time (i.e. not during an offensive by either side) wasn't getting that kind of intense bombardment all the time. Both sides were suffering from major shell shortages at various stages of the war, and could really only do those huge bombardments during the build up to major offensives, whether bombarding the actual target or bombarding some other point in the line to draw attention away from the actual target.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 18:35

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

I'm reading James Holland's The Battle of Britain (if it's known to be unreliable, biased, or oversimplified, let me know.) I am struck by the emotional collapse of the French higher command during the Fall of France. Over and over senior French political and military figures are being reported as being despairing, dissolved into tears, or actually catatonic.

Some examples:

On 14 May, learning of the fall of Sedan at a staff meeting, General Georges fell into his chair and began to weep.
On 15 May, Prime Minister Reynaud called Churchill and said "We have been defeated. We are beaten; we have lost the battle."
On 19 May, Major-General Henry Pownall met Army Group Commander General Gaston Billotte. Billotte repeatedly told his escort, "I am exhausted and against these German panzers I can do nothing." He told Gort that he had "no reserves, no plan, and little hope."
On the 21st, 'Tiny' Ironside (the Chief of the Imperial General Staff) met Billotte and was "shocked by his increasing hysteria." Eventually Ironside "grabbed him by the tunic and gave him a good shake."
When Billotte died on the 21st, the French did not appoint a replacement until May 25th, when Weygand and Petain were already lobbying for peace in Paris.

What happened to turn a respected and feared army organization into people entirely unable to cope?

# ? Oct 11, 2014 18:55

dublish: Oct 31, 2011

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I'm reading James Holland's The Battle of Britain (if it's known to be unreliable, biased, or oversimplified, let me know.)

Well, it's a history book, so it's likely all of the above.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 19:17

HEY GUNS: Oct 11, 2012; FOPTIMUS PRIME

HEY GAL posted:

Edit: Broxolme is listed as "reformed Fendrich" ("reformed" means "fired"), so now I'm wondering if he and the other Englishmen are remnants of some English-heavy previous company?

Ah, the Saxons and Bavarians beat a large English force back in '20 and then 750 of them joined up. I bet these guys are some of those guys.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 19:22

CoolCab: Apr 17, 2005; glem

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I'm reading James Holland's The Battle of Britain (if it's known to be unreliable, biased, or oversimplified, let me know.) I am struck by the emotional collapse of the French higher command during the Fall of France. Over and over senior French political and military figures are being reported as being despairing, dissolved into tears, or actually catatonic.

Some examples:

On 14 May, learning of the fall of Sedan at a staff meeting, General Georges fell into his chair and began to weep.

On 15 May, Prime Minister Reynaud called Churchill and said "We have been defeated. We are beaten; we have lost the battle."

On 19 May, Major-General Henry Pownall met Army Group Commander General Gaston Billotte. Billotte repeatedly told his escort, "I am exhausted and against these German panzers I can do nothing." He told Gort that he had "no reserves, no plan, and little hope."

On the 21st, 'Tiny' Ironside (the Chief of the Imperial General Staff) met Billotte and was "shocked by his increasing hysteria." Eventually Ironside "grabbed him by the tunic and gave him a good shake."

When Billotte died on the 21st, the French did not appoint a replacement until May 25th, when Weygand and Petain were already lobbying for peace in Paris.

What happened to turn a respected and feared army organization into people entirely unable to cope?

Off the top of my head the French were an intensely proud, patriotic people who had one of the most feared armies ever assembled, and they lived to watch literal actual Nazis to be goose stepping through their homes murdering and raping their people? Imagine if ISIS took Washington, instituted sharia law in Texas and had chunks of Maine executed in terms of "this is the absolute most bleakly horrible, impossible and terrifying thing that could happen to a country" scale.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 19:53

Arsenic Lupin: Apr 12, 2012; This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.

CoolCab posted:

Off the top of my head the French were an intensely proud, patriotic people who had one of the most feared armies ever assembled, and they lived to watch literal actual Nazis to be goose stepping through their homes murdering and raping their people?

... all of which happened during and because of the Fall of France? I'm not sure I see what's the relevance to "why did the French leadership collapse while there was still some hope of victory?"

# ? Oct 11, 2014 19:59

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

The end game results of the Franco Prussian War was a pretty humliating thing to happen to France. Seriously.

Also, they humiliated Germany just as badly after the First World War too. And everyone knew what Hitler and the Nazi Party thought about that. So yeah, you can't blame the French for being a bit well broken up looking to the future.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:10

Power Khan: Aug 20, 2011; by Fritz the Horse

Murdering and raping their people?

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:20

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

JaucheCharly posted:

Murdering and raping their people?

With the SS that was a given and no doubt actually happened.

But yeah, Nazi Germany just routed the two nations in the West that could have taken them on. They could have pretty much taken and annexed the whole of France, who'd stop them?

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:22

BurningStone: Jun 3, 2011

I've read that France's command and control operated at World War I speeds at the beginning of World War II. They just couldn't understand how the battlefield could change so quickly and were completely unprepared for it.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:23

SeanBeansShako: Nov 20, 2009; Now the Drums beat up again,
For all true Soldier Gentlemen.

BurningStone posted:

I've read that France's command and control operated at World War I speeds at the beginning of World War II. They just couldn't understand how the battlefield could change so quickly and were completely unprepared for it.

I still find it weird they hadn't prepared for the Nazi Army to just side step that boondoggle wall of theirs and go through Belgium like that did in the First World War.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:25

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

SeanBeansShako posted:

I still find it weird they hadn't prepared for the Nazi Army to just side step that boondoggle wall of theirs and go through Belgium like that did in the First World War.

They did prepare for that; the plan was for the British and French armies to rush to seize pre-defined positions in Belgium once Germany war-decced Belgium. The fortifications were to prevent the Germans from moving through that area (not that they wanted to anyways, given the terrain) and to force them into Belgium where the combined armies would meet them in a decisive battle. The Germans, however, were able to bring tanks through the Ardennes forest, which was unexpected, and the French forces defending at Sedan didn't have anti-tank weapons. The question seems to be, then, why did the French leadership collapse once that happened, rather than getting the armies to fall back to new defensive positions? Also, the treaty of Versailles of 1917 was far less harsh than the treaty of Versailles of 1871, so the notion that France somehow were deserving of the attack is a little strange.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:32

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 16, 2024 07:07

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

SeanBeansShako posted:

I still find it weird they hadn't prepared for the Nazi Army to just side step that boondoggle wall of theirs and go through Belgium like that did in the First World War.

The Maginot line worked in that A. the Germans didn't storm over it and B. it allowed France to place crappy units there freeing up better units to march into central Belgium in accordance with the Dyle Plan. The Germans didn't go through central Belgium again but rather broke through Luxembourg and the southeastern tip of Belgium, allowing them to encircle the BEF and the two best French armies inside of Belgium and Pas-de-Calais.

# ? Oct 11, 2014 20:36

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

«‹›1137 »