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jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

Sock The Great posted:

So my wife and I just wrapped up night 2 of Cry It Out with our six month old, and I'm pretty sure this couldn't have gone worse.

The first night took about 45 minutes of straight screaming (with me visiting/comforting in 5-10 minute intervals). Slept from 740 to 530, which is when he usually wakes up to eat anyways. Success!

Then yesterday, almost no naps during the day. He actually seems afraid of his bedroom now. We can't even bring him in there to change him without a complete meltdown. As he barely slept during the day we started his bedtime early, around 530. Bath, bottle, swaddle etc.

Then it was two hours of straight screaming (with comfort provided every so often, never picking him out of his crib). He finally fell asleep around 745.

Then he woke up at 1AM, cried for 30 minutes before falling back asleep. Then he woke up again at 230, freaked out for over 60 minutes before my wife couldn't take it anymore and nursed him to sleep. A total fuckup, I know.

He slept for another hour or so, woke up again screaming for another 20 minutes or so before I caved and rocked him to sleep.

My main question is he supposed to be calming down a bit when my wife or I go in to comfort hi In his crib? Right now it actually makes him significantly more upset if we go into his room at all.

It sounds like your trying to get him to go to sleep without rocking/holding him to sleep. What are you doing specifically?

Like do you hold/rock till almost asleep then put him in his crib? Do you have a set specific bed time routine? This helps a lot for babies to know when it is time to sleep, first we bath, then we get lotion, then we get PJ's, then we read books, then we rock, then we get our binky, etc.

If he is strongly strongly resisting, he may just not be ready. Babies can be ready for sleep training around 4-6 months, but not all are. If it is going awful, revisit it later.

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AlistairCookie
Apr 1, 2010

I am a Dinosaur

Sock The Great posted:

So my wife and I just wrapped up night 2 of Cry It Out with our six month old, and I'm pretty sure this couldn't have gone worse.

The first night took about 45 minutes of straight screaming (with me visiting/comforting in 5-10 minute intervals). Slept from 740 to 530, which is when he usually wakes up to eat anyways. Success!

Then yesterday, almost no naps during the day. He actually seems afraid of his bedroom now. We can't even bring him in there to change him without a complete meltdown. As he barely slept during the day we started his bedtime early, around 530. Bath, bottle, swaddle etc.

Then it was two hours of straight screaming (with comfort provided every so often, never picking him out of his crib). He finally fell asleep around 745.

Then he woke up at 1AM, cried for 30 minutes before falling back asleep. Then he woke up again at 230, freaked out for over 60 minutes before my wife couldn't take it anymore and nursed him to sleep. A total fuckup, I know.

He slept for another hour or so, woke up again screaming for another 20 minutes or so before I caved and rocked him to sleep.

My main question is he supposed to be calming down a bit when my wife or I go in to comfort hi In his crib? Right now it actually makes him significantly more upset if we go into his room at all.



I wouldn't be doing any sort of rigid sleep training anything with a 6 month old. I know that is the minimum age recommended to use CIO, by my honest question to you would be--why are you doing this at all? How truly bad was his sleep pattern? At that age, it's still completely normal to wake for a feed. And babies need to be held. To me, he's reacting perfectly logically to the change in how you are treating him during the night--his crib and room are now scary, because CIO teaches him that once he's laid down, he won't get picked back up.

If he was cluster feeding or something, making the nights more difficult than they need to be, there are other things you can do to ease him out of the pattern that are much easier on everyone. What was he doing that made you want to try CIO in the first place? Honestly, I would just stop. You described 4 total hours of needless screaming in one night from your little guy. And for what? How would his naps and night gone if you were just rolling with his needs and responding to him?

Read The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley to lay the groundwork for healthy sleep without going through all this. :)

GlutenFreeBanana
Apr 5, 2014

Sock The Great posted:

So my wife and I just wrapped up night 2 of Cry It Out with our six month old, and I'm pretty sure this couldn't have gone worse.

The first night took about 45 minutes of straight screaming (with me visiting/comforting in 5-10 minute intervals). Slept from 740 to 530, which is when he usually wakes up to eat anyways. Success!

Then yesterday, almost no naps during the day. He actually seems afraid of his bedroom now. We can't even bring him in there to change him without a complete meltdown. As he barely slept during the day we started his bedtime early, around 530. Bath, bottle, swaddle etc.

Then it was two hours of straight screaming (with comfort provided every so often, never picking him out of his crib). He finally fell asleep around 745.

Then he woke up at 1AM, cried for 30 minutes before falling back asleep. Then he woke up again at 230, freaked out for over 60 minutes before my wife couldn't take it anymore and nursed him to sleep. A total fuckup, I know.

He slept for another hour or so, woke up again screaming for another 20 minutes or so before I caved and rocked him to sleep.

My main question is he supposed to be calming down a bit when my wife or I go in to comfort hi In his crib? Right now it actually makes him significantly more upset if we go into his room at all.

I'm a behaviorist and this is completely normal . It's what we call and extinction burst . Since your little one didn't get his way the first night his behaviors got a little more extreme to get a reaction from you . The most important thing to do is follow through . The more you give in the harder it will get . Tonight may be even worse just keep strong and give it a few days .

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

GlutenFreeBanana posted:

I'm a behaviorist and this is completely normal . It's what we call and extinction burst . Since your little one didn't get his way the first night his behaviors got a little more extreme to get a reaction from you . The most important thing to do is follow through . The more you give in the harder it will get . Tonight may be even worse just keep strong and give it a few days .

:lol: Are you also a parent or did you just wander in from the pets forum?

GlutenFreeBanana
Apr 5, 2014
I'm a parent also . I have a 14 year old and working on the second .

Papercut
Aug 24, 2005

GlutenFreeBanana posted:

I'm a parent also . I have a 14 year old and working on the second .

Let's assume that this behavior is developmentally appropriate (I don't believe it is, but for the sake of argument). Isn't negative punishment a poor way to reinforce a behavior? The animal training world has seemingly completely abandoned it in favor of positive reinforcement because the incidence of relapse is so high. Every CIO parent I know has had to do CIO again every few months.

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...

Papercut posted:

Let's assume that this behavior is developmentally appropriate (I don't believe it is, but for the sake of argument). Isn't negative punishment a poor way to reinforce a behavior? The animal training world has seemingly completely abandoned it in favor of positive reinforcement because the incidence of relapse is so high. Every CIO parent I know has had to do CIO again every few months.

We did CIO for two nights and that was that if I recall correctly. Then again, we ("we" read: My Wife) also read the No Cry Sleep Solution which I recommend as that helped keep the positive momentum.

Sock The Great
Oct 1, 2006

It's Lonely At The Top. But It's Comforting To Look Down Upon Everyone At The Bottom
Grimey Drawer

AlistairCookie posted:

I wouldn't be doing any sort of rigid sleep training anything with a 6 month old. I know that is the minimum age recommended to use CIO, by my honest question to you would be--why are you doing this at all? How truly bad was his sleep pattern? At that age, it's still completely normal to wake for a feed. And babies need to be held. To me, he's reacting perfectly logically to the change in how you are treating him during the night--his crib and room are now scary, because CIO teaches him that once he's laid down, he won't get picked back up.

If he was cluster feeding or something, making the nights more difficult than they need to be, there are other things you can do to ease him out of the pattern that are much easier on everyone. What was he doing that made you want to try CIO in the first place? Honestly, I would just stop. You described 4 total hours of needless screaming in one night from your little guy. And for what? How would his naps and night gone if you were just rolling with his needs and responding to him?

Read The No Cry Sleep Solution by Elizabeth Pantley to lay the groundwork for healthy sleep without going through all this. :)

His sleep pattern is definitely abnormal. On good days he will nap 60-90 minutes during the day, others almost not at all and its a complete disaster.

However, over the last 3-4 weeks his sleep in the night has gotten progressively worse. Waking up 3-4 times for longer periods of time (was previously 1-2 times and pretty much fell asleep with a couple rocks on his chair).

We have had a regular bedtime routine for at least two months. Bath, story, bottle, rocking, sleep.

The real issue that drove us to get him better at self soothing (CIO), is he has become increasingly difficult to transfer from the rocking chair to his crib. At the moment the second you put him down , when completely asleep, he wakes up immediately and the process starts over.

Lucha Luch
Feb 25, 2007

Mr. Squeakers coming off the top rope!

Volmarias posted:

We did CIO for two nights and that was that if I recall correctly. Then again, we ("we" read: My Wife) also read the No Cry Sleep Solution which I recommend as that helped keep the positive momentum.

Second. No Cry Sleep Solution worked really well for us and I didn't feel obscenely guilty, because I was still going in and comforting him, just putting him back down and leaving/being very boring

hepscat
Jan 16, 2005

Avenging Nun

GlutenFreeBanana posted:

I'm a behaviorist

Mind clarifying what that means or are you just throwing that out there to make your opinion more official? Do you specialize in children 6 months or what? I have a hard time believing anyone could make a living specializing in infant behavior. Older children have completely different sleep issues than young babies.

As a parent of two for my only credentials, two hours of crying and a baby who is afraid of his/her crib would make me abandon the idea entirely. What's wrong with soothing a baby anyway? Parents should do whatever works to get both kids and parents to sleep. For us that was sharing a bed at this age and nursing if the baby woke up. For others, a side crib worked well for keeping the baby asleep (sensing parents in the room). My daughter did well in a crib by herself but not until she was 8 or 9 months.

Anyone who tells you you *have* to do one thing over another is bullshitting you. There is a lot of variety in babies and what works for some kids doesn't work for others.

Ben Davis
Apr 17, 2003

I'm as clumsy as I am beautiful
Have you introduced a (small, firmly-stuffed) lovey? 6 months is when my ped recommended that. We stuck him in my bra for a while first so he'd smell like me, had baby hold it while he nursed, that sort of thing, and tucked his arm around it when we put him in his crib. You definitely don't want him to be afraid of his crib :( That's really sad!

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

Ben Davis posted:

Have you introduced a (small, firmly-stuffed) lovey? 6 months is when my ped recommended that. We stuck him in my bra for a while first so he'd smell like me, had baby hold it while he nursed, that sort of thing, and tucked his arm around it when we put him in his crib. You definitely don't want him to be afraid of his crib :( That's really sad!

Bad dad thought of the day. Titty bear is best bear.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av
Yeah, you just need to tough through it. I would try not to move bedtime around even without the nap however. First, they'll be more tired when bedtime does actually roll around so liable to sleep better and second it will be confusing if things are happening at weird times of day.

Hdip
Aug 21, 2002
2nd baby is here now and I'm looking for a stroller ride on board that is only on one side like the orbit sidekick. I can't find any other board like that. I have one that goes in the middle and my about to be 2 year old likes it. It's in the way when I walk though. Any other options you guys know of?

AlistairCookie
Apr 1, 2010

I am a Dinosaur

Kalenn Istarion posted:

Yeah, you just need to tough through it. I would try not to move bedtime around even without the nap however. First, they'll be more tired when bedtime does actually roll around so liable to sleep better and second it will be confusing if things are happening at weird times of day.

I have to generally disagree with this. It's like the "keep them up late, so they'll sleep later in the morning" advice. It's just wrong; that's now how babies little systems work. More tired for a baby means they are less likely to go to sleep like they need to, because once they are over tired, they can't get their central nervous system to calm down. They get more wired, and more crazy awake, and they cycle of lunacy continues. A baby can't tell time to be confused by anything like shifting a bedtime. What confuses them is not following their bedtime routine. Moving bedtime back from 7pm to 6pm or whatever on a bad nap day is prudent.

Sock The Great posted:

His sleep pattern is definitely abnormal. On good days he will nap 60-90 minutes during the day, others almost not at all and its a complete disaster.

However, over the last 3-4 weeks his sleep in the night has gotten progressively worse. Waking up 3-4 times for longer periods of time (was previously 1-2 times and pretty much fell asleep with a couple rocks on his chair).

We have had a regular bedtime routine for at least two months. Bath, story, bottle, rocking, sleep.

The real issue that drove us to get him better at self soothing (CIO), is he has become increasingly difficult to transfer from the rocking chair to his crib. At the moment the second you put him down , when completely asleep, he wakes up immediately and the process starts over.

Emphasis mine. Do you think leaving him to cry is a good method to teach him to be secure enough to self soothe? CIO teaches them that their cries don't matter, so don't bother, and they give up. That's why you hear about "such good sleepers" after CIO that don't even cry when they're sick. They haven't learned to truly comfort themselves; they've just learned they're on their own. The end result may be the same sleeping baby, or a baby that lays awake quietly, but is it the same thing?

You really should read the No Cry book; it covers this exactly. What you need to start doing is teaching him to fall asleep on his own. That's what this is all about. It's a learned skill. He can't do it, so when he wakes up naturally during the night (as we all do), he doesn't know how to go back to sleep on his own. So he cries for you. And all of a sudden you don't go pick him up, or go to him at all, in order to teach him a lesson about something he doesn't understand, that you haven't actually taught him to do. Do you see how it's counterproductive? So he naturally cries harder, and becomes afraid of his crib. You might just leave him forever! He's just a baby, remember. He doesn't know anything, and they are not willfully manipulative. You don't have to "break" a baby to get them to sleep. ;) (I'm not putting words in your mouth, I just perceive that as the attitude behind the CIO method--babies are manipulative and must be shown who's boss. Crying for a parent during the night just isn't allowed.)

Phase out rocking him to absolute sleep. That's the key. Rock and cuddle until drowsy, then lay him down sleepy but awake, so he learns to lie there and fall asleep on his own. When he cries, pick him up and soothe him, and try it again. And again. And again. It will take multiple times, but he will get it. Then he will know he can fall back asleep on his own during the night, AND know that you are still there for him. Also, a comfort object. Does he have a lovey? Stuffed animal or something? Does he have a little music playing soft thing he can activate on his own? A seahorse or gloworm? Babies need comfort objects to learn to comfort themselves with. Does he take a pacifier?

You can teach a baby, like Pavlov's dogs, to respond to a cue. That's essentially what bedtime routines are for; it is a consistent way of winding them down and signaling to them that sleep is near. Get a music playing thing, like a Fisher Price Seahorse. Play it every single time you are rocking him for sleep, feeding him for sleep, and once he lies down. Every time. He will learn associate the music with comfort and sleep, then during the night, he can learn to press it's tummy himself and lull himself back to sleep.

How do you treat night wakings? No talking, no lights, nothing stimulating whatsoever. Don't rock him with the TV on or anything. Change him or feed him or whatever he needs, even if it's just a quick cuddle, then right back to crib--sleepy but awake. Nothing exciting going on at night, just for sleeping. Do it again. And again, and again, and again.

Also, naps. Does he have a naptime routine? Do you watch for tiredness and start the routine at his first cues? (If they get overtired, the switch flips and they're wired and can't settle down.) Are his naps at consistent intervals? He should still be at 3 naps a day, but babies naps can be really variable.

Everyone here has gone through the bad-sleep thing at one time or another. ;) I sympathize; it's maddening. But there are lots of really effective techniques you can use to teach your baby the skills he needs.

sheri
Dec 30, 2002

^^^ that's exactly the method we took with my son. We did it at about 12.5 months

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe
Starting to feel like we're putting our baby to sleep later than we probably should. We generally start a bath at 8:30 and then a last feeding and then bedtime rolls around at about 10 pm. Mom is a little more of a nightowl than most (even while pregnant and in these first two months) so getting her to bed earlier than that didn't really happen naturally.

We seem to be in a decent rhythm though so is there any need to try to get her to bed earlier or just go with a "if it ain't broke..." mentality?

Ynglaur
Oct 9, 2013

The Malta Conference, anyone?

BonoMan posted:

Starting to feel like we're putting our baby to sleep later than we probably should. We generally start a bath at 8:30 and then a last feeding and then bedtime rolls around at about 10 pm. Mom is a little more of a nightowl than most (even while pregnant and in these first two months) so getting her to bed earlier than that didn't really happen naturally.

We seem to be in a decent rhythm though so is there any need to try to get her to bed earlier or just go with a "if it ain't broke..." mentality?

What time does your baby wake up? How much sleep per day is he/she receiving? In general, children need to sleep a lot in order to grow and stay healthy. My 8-year-old generally falls asleep by 9:30pm, and wakes up at 7:00am on school-days (closer to 8:00am on weekends). Different children have different needs, obviously (my 6-year-old is out by 8:00pm, but up around 6:00am, and still enjoys the occasional nap), but don't expect children to get by on 6-8 hours of sleep like adults do.

For whatever it's worth, I've found that having a schedule and sticking to it is one of the most important things, and it sounds like you're doing that and it's working well for you.

BoyBlunder
Sep 17, 2008

BonoMan posted:

Starting to feel like we're putting our baby to sleep later than we probably should. We generally start a bath at 8:30 and then a last feeding and then bedtime rolls around at about 10 pm. Mom is a little more of a nightowl than most (even while pregnant and in these first two months) so getting her to bed earlier than that didn't really happen naturally.

We seem to be in a decent rhythm though so is there any need to try to get her to bed earlier or just go with a "if it ain't broke..." mentality?

This is what my wife and I did for my daughter, and at around 3.5 months or so, she started going to bed earlier and earlier.

Now she is asleep by 7ish, and we put her down at 6:30. She loves to roll around and practice crawling/stretching in bed so that makes for some funny "just fell asleep" poses!

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

Ynglaur posted:

What time does your baby wake up? How much sleep per day is he/she receiving? In general, children need to sleep a lot in order to grow and stay healthy. My 8-year-old generally falls asleep by 9:30pm, and wakes up at 7:00am on school-days (closer to 8:00am on weekends). Different children have different needs, obviously (my 6-year-old is out by 8:00pm, but up around 6:00am, and still enjoys the occasional nap), but don't expect children to get by on 6-8 hours of sleep like adults do.

For whatever it's worth, I've found that having a schedule and sticking to it is one of the most important things, and it sounds like you're doing that and it's working well for you.

Well today she was up at about 7 am. So 10 am - 7 am with two feedings in there. But this is the first day at daycare so it's the first day she's been up that early (typically she's getting up with mom around 9/10 am - but also typically went to sleep later with mom before we started to establish a rhythm.) I think we'll see if we can get her to bed an hour earlier than normal since she's waking up earlier now.

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

BonoMan posted:

Well today she was up at about 7 am. So 10 am - 7 am with two feedings in there. But this is the first day at daycare so it's the first day she's been up that early (typically she's getting up with mom around 9/10 am - but also typically went to sleep later with mom before we started to establish a rhythm.) I think we'll see if we can get her to bed an hour earlier than normal since she's waking up earlier now.

My 15 month old sleeps from 7:30 pm to 6am and takes on average a 2 hour nap per day. My 3 yr old sleeps from 8:30pm to 6:30am with 30-60 min nap. Small kids need a LOT of sleep. your sleep schedule doesn't sound like enough. All babies are different etc.

Gothmog1065
May 14, 2009
Hah. I was just coming in to ask about sleep as well (and food!)

Colby (7 months) has a pretty good schedule, he normally gets to bed about 8-9:30, and wakes up at 7:30ish and wants food (waking me up) at 8:30 normally. He'll then have an hour nap between 10 and 11, then a big nap from 2:30-5. We change him in the middle of the night (12-1 when I go to bed). Normally he'd sleep through the change or go right back to bed. Recently he's been staying up for a few hours then going back to sleep. He really doesn't cry though, should we let him lay and keep the regular schedule?

Also on food: He's tearing up the stage 2 foods. He's finally eating them all like a good boy, and seems to want more. I normally give him a 4oz bottle afterwards (He eats 8 with no food). Is it okay to skip the bottle and start working up 2 things of food?

BonoMan
Feb 20, 2002

Jade Ear Joe

jassi007 posted:

My 15 month old sleeps from 7:30 pm to 6am and takes on average a 2 hour nap per day. My 3 yr old sleeps from 8:30pm to 6:30am with 30-60 min nap. Small kids need a LOT of sleep. your sleep schedule doesn't sound like enough. All babies are different etc.

Yeah we have her going to bed at 9 am now that she's starting to slowwwwly get a rhythm. We basically only wake her up that early now to take her to daycare where she goes back to sleep so I think she's doing pretty well at the moment.

Ben Davis
Apr 17, 2003

I'm as clumsy as I am beautiful

Gothmog1065 posted:

Hah. I was just coming in to ask about sleep as well (and food!)

Colby (7 months) has a pretty good schedule, he normally gets to bed about 8-9:30, and wakes up at 7:30ish and wants food (waking me up) at 8:30 normally. He'll then have an hour nap between 10 and 11, then a big nap from 2:30-5. We change him in the middle of the night (12-1 when I go to bed). Normally he'd sleep through the change or go right back to bed. Recently he's been staying up for a few hours then going back to sleep. He really doesn't cry though, should we let him lay and keep the regular schedule?

Also on food: He's tearing up the stage 2 foods. He's finally eating them all like a good boy, and seems to want more. I normally give him a 4oz bottle afterwards (He eats 8 with no food). Is it okay to skip the bottle and start working up 2 things of food?

Usually at that age, you offer breast milk/formula first, then the solids after they're full of milk. Around 1ish, you swap the order :)

You could try an overnight diaper and see if he sleeps through. I really like the Huggies ones, but diaper brands are all baby-dependent.

Gothmog1065
May 14, 2009

Ben Davis posted:

Usually at that age, you offer breast milk/formula first, then the solids after they're full of milk. Around 1ish, you swap the order :)

You could try an overnight diaper and see if he sleeps through. I really like the Huggies ones, but diaper brands are all baby-dependent.

So do I offer him 4 oz milk then feed him until he's playing and not eating?

Edit: Another stupid question, I usually hold Colby to feed him, and he's not holding his bottle. Should he be holding his bottle now? I've been "torturing" him by putting the bottle in front of him and making him grab it. He's great at getting the nipple in his mouth, but he can't pick it up or hold it yet.

Gothmog1065 fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 9, 2014

Chicken Biscuits
Oct 17, 2008

Gothmog1065 posted:

So do I offer him 4 oz milk then feed him until he's playing and not eating?

Edit: Another stupid question, I usually hold Colby to feed him, and he's not holding his bottle. Should he be holding his bottle now? I've been "torturing" him by putting the bottle in front of him and making him grab it. He's great at getting the nipple in his mouth, but he can't pick it up or hold it yet.

You may have to ask your doctor about how many ounces your baby is getting each day and whether it's enough. Allison is almost 1 and I just in the past couple weeks lowered her formula intake to give her more solids. She went from 32 ounces a day down to about 20. I think you should continue giving him the full amount before solids, but again, ask your doctor if he's getting enough. :)

I think Allison was around 7 months when she finally learned to hold the bottle steady, so I don't think there's anything to worry about yet.

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Man last night Daniel was screaming and crying so hard during feeding that he started vomiting. Probably his teeth again, might be molars coming.

flashy_mcflash
Feb 7, 2011

His Divine Shadow posted:

Man last night Daniel was screaming and crying so hard during feeding that he started vomiting. Probably his teeth again, might be molars coming.

Get Daniel and yourself some drugs for when the molars come. It's a dark time.

Ben Davis
Apr 17, 2003

I'm as clumsy as I am beautiful
Kosta never held his own bottle, so I wouldn't feel bad one way or another with that. It didn't affect him feeding himself or holding a cup later or anything!

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

flashy_mcflash posted:

Get Daniel and yourself some drugs for when the molars come. It's a dark time.

Or you might luck out, kiddo has now churned out five molars, and the only change has been excess drooling and demands for hard biscuits to gnaw on.

(You must have "fullkornsskorper" in Finland too, they're a godsend for teething babies.)

His Divine Shadow
Aug 7, 2000

I'm not a fascist. I'm a priest. Fascists dress up in black and tell people what to do.
Yeah we have skorpor of all kinds and sizes. They quite like crisp bread like polarknäcke (also one of my favorites):

SavoyMarionette
May 23, 2007
I speak only the truth.
We're flying cross country to visit family for Thanksgiving this year. I have a 5 year old and a 2.5 year old. Last time we flew as a family my oldest had just turned 1 and we flew overnight, and with nursing her to sleep for the flight things went very smoothly. The flight also was only a couple hours. This time it'll be one way flights both ways, about 5 hours long. I'm going to try to bring along my kindle and my daughter's leapfrog to help entertain them and a few toys or coloring books but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. I'm a bit nervous as I'll be in a row of seats with the kids on my own while my husband sits across the aisle. It'll be night flights again so while I'm hoping I can get them to rest, I also know I might end up with tired cranky kids instead.

Thwomp
Apr 10, 2003

BA-DUHHH

Grimey Drawer
I'd be interested in tips too. Connor will be almost six months when we fly in December and the general advice I've read is to feed babies during takeoff and landing to avoid ear pain.

My brother and sister-in-law have also traveled by air with their kids and recommended plenty of snacks and toys/distractions for kids depending on age. SavoyMarionette, you've probably got everything you can. How about games that could be played in a row?

sudont
May 10, 2011
this program is useful for when you don't want to do something.

Fun Shoe
My son just started walking this week--he went from nothing to running, like everyone said he would do, haha. (He'll be 16 months on the 17th.) He also has run straight into the NO stage. EVERY WORD OUT OF HIS MOUTH IS NO. I've made a game out of it and use lots of reverse psychology. "C, do you want a banana or apple for a snack?" "NO!" "Okay, I'll just have to eat both of these. Mmmmm munch munch... oh, you want a banana?" I try crazy things like "C, do you want a pony?" "NO!" "A sack of $20s?" "NO!"

He does this ridiculous diva-esque head and whole body no-shake and throws his head when he does it. It's uh... getting old, but I'm trying to make sure I don't ask a question when "no" is not an acceptable answer (like if we have to go to the store, don't ask "C do you want to go to the store with me?") and to offer choices if I'm able, like the apple or banana, etc. He's SO willful though, oof.

Sockmuppet
Aug 15, 2009

SavoyMarionette posted:

I'm a bit nervous as I'll be in a row of seats with the kids on my own while my husband sits across the aisle.

People are usually really nice about swapping seats to help families out, so hopefully you'll be able to find a better seating configuration once on the plane :) We'll be flying home for Christmas with our...she'll be 18 months old then (OMG), and she hates sitting still for any length of time. Our last flight was saved because the row behind us was filled with little old ladies, and kiddo loves flirting with strangers.
She spent the whole time peeking through the cracks between the seats and waving and saying "Hallooooo", and basking in the attention.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

SavoyMarionette posted:

We're flying cross country to visit family for Thanksgiving this year. I have a 5 year old and a 2.5 year old. Last time we flew as a family my oldest had just turned 1 and we flew overnight, and with nursing her to sleep for the flight things went very smoothly. The flight also was only a couple hours. This time it'll be one way flights both ways, about 5 hours long. I'm going to try to bring along my kindle and my daughter's leapfrog to help entertain them and a few toys or coloring books but I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions. I'm a bit nervous as I'll be in a row of seats with the kids on my own while my husband sits across the aisle. It'll be night flights again so while I'm hoping I can get them to rest, I also know I might end up with tired cranky kids instead.

Yeah, that sucks; although can't you switch seats between the four of you as needed? I remember the first time we flew, it was on Southwest, and we ended up completely separated because our connecting flight was delayed, and the kid just started screaming at the top of his lungs because he could see mommy, but couldn't get to her three rows away. The guy sitting next to me was, unsurprisingly, very happy to swap seats once that was an option.

Quick question though, regarding birthdays; what's the etiquette as far as inviting other kids? He'll be 3, but we don't really know the other people at his daycare very well, and we don't really have any other kids his age to invite. Should we just roll with a family only party? Or try and track down some friends for him? The concept of birthday parties is certainly interesting to him, but I don't think he has any to compare them too, since, as I say, he hasn't gone to any other ones.

jassi007
Aug 9, 2006

mmmmm.. burger...

sullat posted:

Yeah, that sucks; although can't you switch seats between the four of you as needed? I remember the first time we flew, it was on Southwest, and we ended up completely separated because our connecting flight was delayed, and the kid just started screaming at the top of his lungs because he could see mommy, but couldn't get to her three rows away. The guy sitting next to me was, unsurprisingly, very happy to swap seats once that was an option.

Quick question though, regarding birthdays; what's the etiquette as far as inviting other kids? He'll be 3, but we don't really know the other people at his daycare very well, and we don't really have any other kids his age to invite. Should we just roll with a family only party? Or try and track down some friends for him? The concept of birthday parties is certainly interesting to him, but I don't think he has any to compare them too, since, as I say, he hasn't gone to any other ones.

We did not invite daycare kids to our 3 year olds party this year. It is hard enough with similar aged cousins watching him get new toys. Wait until your kid makes known they have certain friends and until the kids can restrain themselves a bit and won't have jealous tantrums over gifts. I imagine around 5 or 6 8s when it starts to make sense to have some other kids.

Gravitee
Nov 20, 2003

I just put money in the Magic Fingers!

sullat posted:


Quick question though, regarding birthdays; what's the etiquette as far as inviting other kids? He'll be 3, but we don't really know the other people at his daycare very well, and we don't really have any other kids his age to invite. Should we just roll with a family only party? Or try and track down some friends for him? The concept of birthday parties is certainly interesting to him, but I don't think he has any to compare them too, since, as I say, he hasn't gone to any other ones.

My son was just invited to a daycare friend's birthday party and he was turning three. The mom of the birthday boy sent a nice note along with the invite explaining who she was and how her son asked to invite my son specifically. They had it at a park and had a bouncy house so there were lots of things to do. The kids played very well together and there was no issue with presents. Mine doesn't have that long of an attention span yet so if he isn't getting presents he doesn't care.

The only issue was with an unsupervised older (6 or 7) cousin that decided to test out wrestling moves on my two year old in the bouncy house. It was the first time I've ever wanted to punch a kid... and parent.

My son just got invited to another party but I don't recognize the names (twins) so I'm less inclined to go.

Kalenn Istarion
Nov 2, 2012

Maybe Senpai will finally notice me now that I've dropped :fivebux: on this snazzy av
Re flights: we've travelled a bunch with our kids, so here's my thoughts:
- how difficult flying is depends on age of the kids as well as their general temperament
- under 9 months or so is relatively easy, since they aren't that mobile. At 6 months, if you can plan the flight around nap time or night then they will probably be buzzed to sleep by the plane, like riding in a car
- up to 3 is probably the toughest age to fly because a) mobile and energetic, b) starting to develop attitude c) limited empathy so don't know why singing at top of lungs might bother others d) messy
- at this age of you need / want to travel with your kids just put your social armor on. There will be people that don't understand that you can't just tie them down and gag them, so just ignore the lovely people that give you dirty looks. I would say don't bring earplugs or sorry notes, you shouldn't be ashamed or embarrassed if your kids are being themselves. Some people have guilt about this so do it if you want I guess.
- we would just let our son walk up and down the aisle when he got antsy, as long as the belt sign isn't on.
- bring headphones, most flights now have shows and movies
- leap pads or colouring books are good too if your kids are into those
- once over 3 ish kids start to be easier to travel with again, especially if they're readers. Our almost 5 year old basically just does his own thing on planes now, he watches wiggles, or plays his leap pad or reads.
- assume that you won't sleep on the flight and plan accordingly. Overnight flights and assuming your kids will conk out doesn't work as well at 1-3, since they get excited by the plane and just go nuts until they burn out. You need to actively entertain them to keep this from happening
- consider gravol if your kids are really off the wall and your ped is onside with it. I won't debate the moraility of giving kids drowsy medication as research and personal opinion is all over the place. If you're personally ok with it you have a much higher chance of having a relatively peaceful flight.

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sudont
May 10, 2011
this program is useful for when you don't want to do something.

Fun Shoe
We flew with Ciaran at 9 months and looking back I am SO glad we went when we did because a month later and it would've been a big ol' mess. He wasn't all that mobile, and was more than happy to just bask in the undivided attention he got from my partner and I, and to nurse frequently. He slept through most of the flights.

I wouldn't fly with him now if you paid me, not cuz he'd cry or fuss, but because he would drive everyone nuts waving, saying hi, trying to share his food/toys/etc. with them. He's beyond social and I worry it grates on strangers!

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