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Gaz-L posted:
The whole point of the Time Lords, post-Deadly Assassin, is that they are all senior civil servants. That's basically their culture, whether they're sinister like the Celestial Intervention Agency or just ineffective. It's a criticism of the establishment, which in the UK is incredibly strongly associated with education and specific schools and universities. Around the time the exams thing gets mentioned, the show goes to pains to show that the Doctor isn't anti-intellectual or stupid by contrasting him with Drax. Of course, the books turned around and undermined that distinction by sticking the Doctor in the Time Lord equivalent of the Bullingdon Club.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:22
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Ah! But it's always been Time Lord politics and government we've seen in those instances. It's like judging a society's art based on a meeting of senior civil servants.
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whatsabattle posted:It's just the TARDIS Translation Matrix turning Gallifreyan years into localized years. Wonder of anyone's taken note of what planet he happens to be on (or closest to) when he answers the question.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:23
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Spatula City posted:
It's definitely intentional. I wonder what sort of redemption plot they're gradually working toward. It could either redeem the uncomfortable nature of the plot so far in small ways or make it feel even worse in retrospect.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:32
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It turns out that, after years of being homesick, the Doctor embraces his true Time Lord heritage and assumes his rightful place as the head of Gallifrey. The TARDIS gets mad at him and next season it gathers all his former companions. Led by Susan. they siege the capital and bring sense back to the Doctor.
Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 21:39
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One grows tied of yo-yos, Clara. One grows tired of just about everything, except power.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:44
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Bicyclops posted:It's definitely intentional. I wonder what sort of redemption plot they're gradually working toward. It could either redeem the uncomfortable nature of the plot so far in small ways or make it feel even worse in retrospect. Yep. I think his and Clara's last scene together in Kill the Moon should have settled any doubt over whether it's intentional. I'm interested to see where it goes, because I've loved Capaldi's performance, but at this point I do think it's been too heavy on The Doctor's mean side.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:27
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Republican Vampire posted:The whole point of the Time Lords, post-Deadly Assassin, is that they are all senior civil servants. That's basically their culture, whether they're sinister like the Celestial Intervention Agency or just ineffective. It's a criticism of the establishment, which in the UK is incredibly strongly associated with education and specific schools and universities. Around the time the exams thing gets mentioned, the show goes to pains to show that the Doctor isn't anti-intellectual or stupid by contrasting him with Drax. Honestly, I think it boils down to my favourite Doctor being McCoy. And I just don't see 'bad student' in him. I see 'pain in the rear end know-it-all the professor puts up with because they get straight As'.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:57
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I don't think there's a huge problem if the doctor has a mean side. The problem is that they're obsessed with portraying him as a complete dick and having his companion be in an intense love-hate relationship with him (to the point of them having a loving break-up argument there), constantly pointing out that he's someone who needs 'fixing' or 'saving' in some way. Did they not think that this would weaken the character? It's Peter Capaldi, he's putting so much into this performance and it could be so awesome and full of that dark gravitas he's going for, but the entire show seems to be about undermining the character's authority in every way. If you're going to make the lead of your show morally ambiguous, you have to have fun with it (see: Breaking Bad), not spend the entire time criticising him and shouting 'look, the doctor's a dick, isn't it interesting!!' I like the fact that they're doing everything they can to build Clara, but surprise surprise doctor who is about a space-god dude going on adventures. You have to give the doctor the chance to be awesome. Then you can start to undermine his character by putting him in situations where his being a dick actually causes massive problems. e: mad about space TV shows, mad about the causes of space TV shows
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Oct 10, 2014 23:01
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Craptacular! posted:Moffat had Eleven go from 900 to approximately 2,000 off screen at some point, and of course it was treated as something along the lines of a drunken bender. Nah, that interval at least is accounted for. Eleven gives his age as 1,200-ish pretty consistently, and then he spends eight or nine hundred years on Trenzalore, so 2,000 tallies. The 1,200 number was probably bullshit to begin with, of course.
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Oct 10, 2014 23:15
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El Grillo posted:I don't think there's a huge problem if the doctor has a mean side. The problem is that they're obsessed with portraying him as a complete dick and having his companion be in an intense love-hate relationship with him (to the point of them having a loving break-up argument there), constantly pointing out that he's someone who needs 'fixing' or 'saving' in some way. Did they not think that this would weaken the character? It's Peter Capaldi, he's putting so much into this performance and it could be so awesome and full of that dark gravitas he's going for, but the entire show seems to be about undermining the character's authority in every way. If you're going to make the lead of your show morally ambiguous, you have to have fun with it (see: Breaking Bad), not spend the entire time criticising him and shouting 'look, the doctor's a dick, isn't it interesting!!' There have been plenty of mean Doctors, but there's only been one complete dick Doctor. Someone made the Rick and Morty comparison at some point in one of these thread, so I looked up Rick and Morty. Apart from it being amazing, I was shocked that I found Rick, the insane, nihilistic alcoholic, far more likeable and multifaceted than Twelve's been so far. I hope we eventually get to see more sides of him soon, because as you say, the one-note writing has not been playing to Capaldi's range as an actor.
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Oct 10, 2014 23:19
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Autonomous Monster posted:Nah, that interval at least is accounted for. Eleven gives his age as 1,200-ish pretty consistently, and then he spends eight or nine hundred years on Trenzalore, so 2,000 tallies. The 1200 number is from the time he spent in between God Complex and Closing Time avoiding Lake Silencio.
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Oct 10, 2014 23:30
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Gaz-L posted:And I just don't see 'bad student' in him. I see 'pain in the rear end know-it-all the professor puts up with because they get straight As'. What kinds of learning do you think the Time Lords value? He's not a bad student, he's a good student. He's just a bad student at whatever the Prydonian academy thought he should have been studying.
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Oct 11, 2014 00:21
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I already laid that out. Critical theory for it's own sake. poo poo that has LITERALLY no practical application. Because rote bullshit says secondary education, not higher, to me. Higher academia's worst vice is exactly that, divorcing learning from application. I just can't see anyone as intellectually voracious as the Doctor even putting up with the rote thing for long enough to even sit exams, nor can I see him not enjoying the theory stuff long enough to do decently well, until he leaves education and tries to find someone to help him apply his ideas to reality and no-one cares, thus boredom, frustration and steal a TARDIS. Much like the looms/Other, who was the Woman In White, is Martha a Rutan argument, I'm not saying anyone else is wrong to prefer the other way, and hell, they have the advantage of 'canon', but I don't like it.
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Oct 11, 2014 00:38
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Spikeguy posted:Just watched The Doctor's Wife again, (most def my favorite episode. Just everything I love about this show wrapped in a single episode.) Am I correct in thinking the Tardis says I love you right before she fades out of existence and back into the box? I thought this once. On reviewing, I think she just repeats the word she wanted to say the whole time: "Hello."
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Oct 11, 2014 00:57
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Gaz-L posted:Honestly, I think it boils down to my favourite Doctor being McCoy. And I just don't see 'bad student' in him. I see 'pain in the rear end know-it-all the professor puts up with because they get straight As'. Really? I can't imagine the Seventh Doctor passing any sort of exam just because he'd never show his work.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:03
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Republican Vampire posted:Really? I can't imagine the Seventh Doctor passing any sort of exam just because he'd never show his work. Nah, he'd provide the work, but encrypted from a transcription into a dead, invented language that he arranged into a decorative border around the marker's guide.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:06
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I just got done watching Kill the Moon. I'm a gigantic dick for saying it, but gently caress Clara. Go get Courtney and Older Vislor Turlough and go through the rest of the season being space assholes to everyone.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:29
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Autonomous Monster posted:Nah, that interval at least is accounted for. Eleven gives his age as 1,200-ish pretty consistently, and then he spends eight or nine hundred years on Trenzalore, so 2,000 tallies. He also spent long enough on Planet Christmas that the children became grandparents and he started to show signs of becoming wheelchair bound Ten from "The Sound of Drums". I give Moffat a lot of stick, as they say over there, but I did kind of like the idea that nothing could actually kill Eleven, but he simply defended Gallifrey for so long on that life that he regenerated from old age.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:41
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Spikeguy posted:Just watched The Doctor's Wife again, (most def my favorite episode. Just everything I love about this show wrapped in a single episode.) Am I correct in thinking the Tardis says I love you right before she fades out of existence and back into the box? I'm pretty sure she does and it's the one sour note of the entire story for me, which is otherwise excellent. It feels like it is thrown in just in case the audience is too stupid to grasp what is clear through her actions throughout the entire episode. Your Boy Fancy posted:I thought this once. On reviewing, I think she just repeats the word she wanted to say the whole time: "Hello." I hope that this is correct, and I should watch the episode again with that in mind. That would be so much better a final line and would solifidy the episode as the best of the revival so far.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:45
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Craptacular! posted:I give Moffat a lot of stick, as they say over there, but I did kind of like the idea that nothing could actually kill Eleven, but he simply defended Gallifrey for so long on that life that he regenerated from old age. The second episode in a row he had the Doctor regenerate because of old age!
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Oct 11, 2014 01:58
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Bah the Doctor is just a quitter. The Master clung to life until he was literally a rotting skeleton!
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Oct 11, 2014 02:02
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comic con today involved lots of pictures, including a Nine with uncanny ears and nose, that incredible Seven from the World Tour, and the loudest TARDIS team of two I could assemble. pics as soon as i can scrounge them up. EDIT: I can't seem to get a direcf image link, but pro-click from the nycc instagram: http://instagram.com/p/t_Yn2JvOpi/ DoctorWhat fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 02:07
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I really don't think 12 is remotely as much of a dick as a lot of people here are saying. Like yeah he's insensitive and blunt (which mostly seems to be a side-effect of his newfound honesty and slight misunderstandings of human nature), but he isn't being deliberately offensive or selfish or anything that I'd associate with someone who is actually horrible.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:07
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Oct 11, 2014 02:23
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Yes, Twelve clearly has a fairly solid ethical core. He just doesn't bother with, care for, understand conversational niceties, and is usually thinking on some kind of abstract level that isn't much for friendly human social cues. In terms of his actions he's no more of a jerk than Eleven was - maybe less, there's nothing like The Girl Who Waited or even 'don't you EVER think you can play games with me!' in Twelve's lifetime yet - it's just that he doesn't dress himself up in whimsy and jokes to smooth the course of casual conversation. This is a Doctor, in effect, who's not a hugger and doesn't go out of his way to be casually kind to others, nor does he understand why that would sometimes be useful or why, really, people would want him to do it. He's blunt not out of spite but through his brain operating on a different wavelength from people who desire compliments, reassurance, casual friendliness. He still means to do the right thing and struggles to achieve justice in a pinch, though, and is often visibly perturbed when someone informs him that he's being inconsiderate.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:27
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I really don't think 12 is remotely as much of a dick as a lot of people here are saying. Like yeah he's insensitive and blunt (which mostly seems to be a side-effect of his newfound honesty and slight misunderstandings of human nature), but he isn't being deliberately offensive or selfish or anything that I'd associate with someone who is actually horrible. No kidding. Y'all actin' like you forgot about One.  The more I think about it, the more I think this whole thing with Clara and Twelve just isn't working—which is sad, because the back of Deep Breath worked so well. It's like they have a side each of two really good character arcs and they're trying to mash them into one story and it's just not working. Plus, the more I think about the supporting cast, the more I get irritated. Danny is a cardboard cutout at this point. We know he's a soldier, that something bad happened to him, that Clara is all  over him. Also, he has a wicked front somersault. Why do they like each other so much, though? We never see them actually talking or discussing what they have in common or anything. It's just "Here are Danny and Clara, now they are in love, beep boop." That's why I just couldn't be bothered to give a gently caress when Danny started shouting at the Doctor in The Caretaker. At least the Doctor has a personality, even if it's a rude one. Courtney at least understands the Doctor—they're both rabblerousters that come across as defiant dicks to people, and Twelve is very much a kid again after a new set of regenerations. Courtney also has the potential to grow into a new relationship with Twelve. At times, it still feels like Clara can't let Eleven go.In summary, Courtney owns. Less Clara, more Courtney. TIA.
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Oct 11, 2014 02:29
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The "carer" line in Into the Dalek felt like the best summary of Twelve so far.Big Mean Jerk posted:I really really love the Key to Time season. Even when it misses, Baker is still fun and the interactions with Romana are great. Yeah, it's one of my favourites, even if Stones of Blood can't keep a consistent tone and Armageddon Factor is another 6-parter where the budget and script would have had issues covering 4.
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Oct 11, 2014 04:54
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So I have some ideas about what's going on with Twelve. Eleven's life, from start to finish, was about losing, or putting aside, so many trappings of his identity as the Doctor. He was brought face to face with the impact he had on the lives of his companions in a way that no previous Doctor ever* has, and in the wake of that swore off the whole business of gallivanting around the universe with humans or others in tow entirely at one point, only to be dragged back in. And even then, he held Clara at bay, picking her up for short trips rather than just travelling with her as he always has. He was attacked in an unthinkable way, and saved in an equally unthinkable way. And there's no way that didn't leave scars. And then he faced up to his own past, found a way to reverse the act for which he hated himself the most, only to become more deserving of the name War Doctor than Hurt ever was. All the while, Trenzalore was looming, and with it his inevitable and inescapable death. No last-minute genius plans, no cheats involving miniature giant robots, no River Song trying to destroy the universe to save him. Nothing could prevent him dying on Trenzalore. He was going to die, and there was nothing he could do about it. And he died doing the most Doctory thing of all; defending a handful of people from every enemy he's ever had, fighting a fight he knew he would lose. Not fighting to save the universe; his enemies were doing that. But fighting because the alternative was either to surrender the lives of innocents to the worst of the worst or to bring back the worst conflict the universe has ever, can ever, know. And oh yeah, the people of Christmas Town were in harm's way entirely because of him. And then, impossibly, he lived. He didn't just live, he got an entire new lease on life. And everything was back to the way it was before, except how could it be? What would a Doctor look like who's been through the wringer the way Eleven was, for as long as he was? what would a Doctor look like who fought for so long that he probably can just barely remember a time when he wasn't fighting any more? I imagine he'd be, well, lost. Angry. Trying so hard to recapture the old magic and failing frequently. I imagine someone who'd fought an unwinnable war for centuries, a war that had to have had casualties, would absolutely recoil from the idea of getting close to soldiers now, even though some of his closest friends have been soldiers. (Not just the Brigadier, but Jamie, Leela after a fashion, Jack Harkness after a fashion, Ace if you don't instinctively recoil from the New Adventures, and others I'm certainly blanking on.) Not because he hated them, but because he didn't want to see them die, and especially not because of something he told them to do. And I imagine he wouldn't be very nice to the people around him, and that he'd run his friends through the wringer. I have no idea if any of this is what Moffat et al have in mind this year, but it makes so much sense to me. It's a massively risky bit of storytelling, and a lot will be determined in how well it pays off. ___ *Outside, perhaps, of the audios; I'm only starting to listen to those.
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Oct 11, 2014 05:29
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Like a big American nerd, I ordered some British candy stuff - some of which was Doctor Who related. Already tried Matt Smith's Jammy Dodgers, which were pretty good. Will definitely be ordering more of those as treats. Today my Jelly Babies arrived though. Trying my first one - an orange one. Conclusion: Hmm! I rather like them. Edit: Tried a few more and I really dig them. I will be now stockpiling plenty of imported Jelly Babies in the future because they're wonderful. Spacedad fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 05:30
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You've got to get a wig, Doctor What. Or find some terrifying way to make your hair a huge ball of curls.
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Oct 11, 2014 05:34
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I feel like 12 "works" when he's being a grumpy old man who is kind of a jerk, like when he and Robin Hood are arguing in the prison cell and fighting over who gets to grab the key with their feet. "The good news is that Clara wasn't here to see that" Or when he's terrifies the guard at the orphanage about something you can't see, moving things after you put them down then immediately stealing his coffee and then going to find Wally in a non Where's Wally book. I think though he's going to have to get over himself though, proving to Danny that he's worth Clara's devotion etc etc.
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Oct 11, 2014 05:54
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Pwnstar posted:I feel like 12 "works" when he's being a grumpy old man who is kind of a jerk, like when he and Robin Hood are arguing in the prison cell and fighting over who gets to grab the key with their feet. "The good news is that Clara wasn't here to see that" Or when he's terrifies the guard at the orphanage about something you can't see, moving things after you put them down then immediately stealing his coffee and then going to find Wally in a non Where's Wally book. It's a new regeneration cycle, so he's back to acting like his first incarnation  . Just you wait, the guy after him's going to have a fondness for a recorder.
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Oct 11, 2014 07:03
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Senor Tron. You monster
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Oct 11, 2014 09:26
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Little_wh0re posted:Senor Tron. You monster I came here to post the same thing. 
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Oct 11, 2014 09:58
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It was a great post.
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Oct 11, 2014 11:23
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What's happened?
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Oct 11, 2014 12:47
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Senor Tron posted:Lots of Companions seem largely the same when they leave the Doctor as when they first meet him, despite the amazing things they witness. One of the best things about Donna is how you can tell even early on that when she and the Doctor eventually part she will be a radically different and better person for her travels with him.
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Oct 11, 2014 12:56
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Senor Tron posted:Lots of Companions seem largely the same when they leave the Doctor as when they first meet him, despite the amazing things they witness. One of the best things about Donna is how you can tell even early on that when she and the Doctor eventually part she will be a radically different and better person for her travels with him. From Oxxidation's review thread. EDIT: Beaten.
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Oct 11, 2014 12:57
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Bicyclops posted:If we're generous and put the Doctors age in Time Lord terms, Ten is at least in his late 50s to early 60s, so it's a little weird. He's pretty young by Time Lord standards given everything we've seen of the society
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Oct 11, 2014 13:28
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Spacedad posted:Like a big American nerd, I ordered some British candy stuff - some of which was Doctor Who related. Already tried Matt Smith's Jammy Dodgers, which were pretty good. Will definitely be ordering more of those as treats. As a Brit, this post is really surreal.
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Oct 11, 2014 14:27
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