Edmund Lava posted:

In my experience there's usually a checklist that a PA/Resident will go through face to face with the patient including all the standard questions for any given chief complaint. Recent travel is always on there.

I'm not going to deny people get sloppy with those, or that the ultimately responsible physician may never speak to the patient, but they should have known.

Hodgepodge posted:

quote:

(CNN) -- Last month, President Barack Obama declared that the world knows how to fight Ebola. Three days later, on my way into Liberia, I asked: Is he right?

And my answer, after spending a week in Liberia, is no.

On paper, we do know how to fight Ebola. You isolate patients and keep track of the people with whom they had close contact while they were contagious, and if those contacts get sick, isolate them and start the cycle over until the disease burns itself out.

But knowing how to do something intellectually isn't the same as knowing how to execute that solution. Execution requires management and control over details at a level that I don't think we have right now.

Horrifying video from Liberia shows Ebola patients collapsing on the ground outside the Island Clinic because no one was there to escort them in. Isolating the infected is crucial to stopping this epidemic, and the most basic first step toward isolation -- getting the patients inside the hospital -- failed.

The day after we visited the Island Clinic, I showed the video to Peter Graaff, the World Health Organization's representative to Liberia, since the WHO and the Liberian government are the clinic's sponsors. He was horrified and said he'd had no idea this had even happened.

Graaff had been at an elaborate ceremony opening the clinic just hours before these patients fell to the ground. Did he stick around afterward to make sure everything was working properly? Did he go back to the clinic the next morning to see how things were going?

No, he told me. He left after the ceremony and didn't return. "I didn't want to get in the way," he said, of the Ugandan team of doctors the WHO had contracted to run the place.

When I asked Graaff why there was no one to bring in the Ebola patients, he said he didn't know, but perhaps the clinic was "overwhelmed" as it nearly filled up in its first day.

This answer underscores my point. Why was it overwhelmed? For weeks, everyone knew there were long lines to get into Ebola treatment centers. It was no mystery that patients would be flocking to the new clinic the minute it opened. Why wasn't it prepared for something as basic as bringing patients inside?

While in Liberia, I saw other indications that we don't truly know how to end this enormous epidemic. After isolation, the second crucial step in controlling the outbreak is to follow people who were in close contact with Ebola patients to see whether they develop symptoms of the disease.

In Liberia, I met Fatu Kekula, a young woman who by any definition is a supercontact. Without proper protective gear, Kekula single-handedly took care of her Ebola-stricken mother, father, sister and cousin at home. She clearly should have been followed up with by authorities, but she says no one ever contacted her. Other contacts in Liberia told me similar stories.

When I mentioned these problems to international aid workers in Liberia, they lamented that not enough money had been spent early on to get the outbreak under control. That's certainly true, but perhaps it's not just about money.

Opinion: Get proactive about screening for Ebola

It's also about what Dr. Michael Osterholm at the University of Minnesota calls "command and control." You can put millions upon millions of dollars into containing Ebola, but if the response isn't well-organized, the outbreak will win in the end.

A U.S. federal official familiar with the situation told me that this spring, the Centers for Disease Control tried to go in and help, but the WHO's African region resisted, saying they could handle the situation.

It was only when CDC Director Dr. Tom Frieden personally reached out to Dr. Keiji Fukuda, the WHO's assistant director-general for health security, that things changed, according to the official. Fukuda flew from Geneva to West Africa, saw his agency's resistance and paved the way for CDC to get involved.

Although we don't seem to know how to fight this particular Ebola outbreak, there is good news: We can learn. We can learn how to manage. We can learn how to execute. We can develop good command and control.

It's on you now, Maj. Gen. Darryl Williams. Williams, the U.S. Army-Africa commander, is leading the U.S. military's response -- officially called Operation United Assistance.

Welcome to Liberia.

Pohl posted:

Me too. We were both hospitalized, because they knew we had pneumonia. What if they couldn't figure out what was wrong with us and they just sent us home with a placebo prescription?

Edit: I know that I was in no condition to even wipe my own rear end at that point.

Fog Tripper posted:

Why do you continue to call antibiotics a "placebo"?

Charlz Guybon posted:

At this point in time how could the WHO representative be unaware that this is happening? Anyone with a more than cursory knowledge of the situation knows this is happening outside of many clinics.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/10/health/reporter-notebook-ebola/

Ebola Roulette posted:

I'd expect people to freak out if those statistics grew exponentially too.

Nessus posted:

Category 7 there seems a little too specific. Are people, in fact, digging their own graves and then laying in them to await death? Are there mass outbreaks of suicide? I mean, hell, there could be, but you'd think someone would have said something.

Meatwave posted:

Suspected case in Quebec:
http://globalnews.ca/news/1609364/suspected-case-of-the-ebola-virus-in-abitibi-temiscamingue/

Fog Tripper posted:

Why do you continue to call antibiotics a "placebo"?

Fog Tripper posted:

Why do you continue to call antibiotics a "placebo"?

Charlz Guybon posted:

At this point in time how could the WHO representative be unaware that this is happening? Anyone with a more than cursory knowledge of the situation knows this is happening outside of many clinics.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/10/10/health/reporter-notebook-ebola/

Prester John posted:

Under no circumstances will they accept the vaccine. A vaccination campaign directed by the Anty-Christ was one the specific scenarios I grew up hearing about. There will be no doubt whatsoever that the vaccine is the mark and if you accept it not only are you going to die, but you are going to hell.

MeLKoR posted:

Of all the stupid poo poo this people say, this always stroke me as the dumbest. Shouldn't the Mark have to be taken knowingly and willingly? Otherwise why wouldn't Satan just discretely buy Monsanto and encode "666" into soybean genes? 2 months later he'd have won the final war before Jesus even got the batsignal.

Darth123123 posted:

I've seriously had 105 temps. Wtf maybe I can't remember. I was like 10. I think the body can handle higher too.

Prester John posted:

There is quite a bit of overlap between anti-vaxxers and fundies. To them a vaccine is just accepting a lie you are being told by an authority. Hell, thanks to my fundie parents I only got my vaccines when I entered public school at the age of 14.

zimboe posted:

If you wear goggles, face-mask, gloves and don't touch your face (use a pen or the like to scratch any itches) I think you are pretty safe on the streets- or at least people will feel safer.
I think this will become de rigeur fashion-wise next year.
Or next month.Or now.

Example: during the SARS outbreak in China, everyone wore face-masks (there were shortages) and you could get them printed with cat-faces, polka dots, big red lips-all kinda crazy stuff.
If you catch a cold in China, you are supposed to wear such a mask just so you don't spread it.
Go buy some now.

Carry hand sanitizer and spray everything.
put a tray of chlorine water outside the door and wet your shoes then leave 'em outside.

Effective or not, this will reassure people because they are doing something and therefore not feel quite so helpless.
...
Does anyone know what the carrying capacity of our health care system is before we have to resort to isolation camps for the infected (as the tin-hats fear) ?
1000 cases? 10,000? certainly not 100,000.
...
the only thing that can completely block the E is a geographical barrier- i.e., the Atlantic Ocean.
If this stuff gets into South America or Mexico, we got a larger problem. We should be as concerned about outbreaks there as much as we are here; geographically we are a unit.
...
What happens if an infected touches frozen food in a market, say- a frozen pizza? how long does the virus persist then?
-Put germicidal lamps in the freezers.

Trabisnikof posted:

Unless you live in a country that has an actual outbreak, doing these things will do more harm than good. We don't need idiot Americans buying out or increasing the cost of vital PPE just so they can feel meaninglessly safer.

zimboe posted:

Well yes, but scared people are idiots.
I assume this would happen only if there was an outbreak in America.(I am currently in China).

Improvise. McGyver it.

Any gloves. dishwashing gloves.
Any goggles- ski goggles -safety goggles.
Wrap paper towels and toilet paper round your head. Poke out some eye-holes.
Plastic sheet and duct tape for a hillbilly Haz-Mat suit.
And Kleenex boxes on your feet of course.

E: Maybe I am being a bit silly and paranoid, but if things do get bad, you'll remember what I said, I hope.

E2: Example: South Korean protesters would wrap plastic wrap around their faces for an improvised tear-gas mask.
Remember that one, too.

zimboe posted:

Well yes, but scared people are idiots.
I assume this would happen only if there was an outbreak in America.(I am currently in China).

Improvise. McGyver it.

Any gloves. dishwashing gloves.
Any goggles- ski goggles -safety goggles.
Wrap paper towels and toilet paper round your head. Poke out some eye-holes.
Plastic sheet and duct tape for a hillbilly Haz-Mat suit.
And Kleenex boxes on your feet of course.

E: Maybe I am being a bit silly and paranoid, but if things do get bad, you'll remember what I said, I hope.

E2: Example: South Korean protesters would wrap plastic wrap around their faces for an improvised tear-gas mask.
Remember that one, too.

CoolCab posted:

please god do not make yourselves homemade ebola suits and if you do please do not rely on your hillbilly biotech to protect you from disease

England Sucks posted:

Welp South America is hosed

zimboe posted:

Gotta be better than nothing.
If the E gets here people will do this.
I predict.
...
What about my question of how long E can persist on contaminated frozen foods?

No one has thought of that route yet.

zimboe posted:

Then we (that is, Merkins) are too.

zimboe posted:

Does anyone know what the carrying capacity of our health care system is before we have to resort to isolation camps for the infected (as the tin-hats fear) ?
1000 cases? 10,000? certainly not 100,000.

Butt Soup Barnes posted:

Isn't this the kind of poo poo that the GBS thread is for?

Butt Soup Barnes posted:

Isn't this the kind of poo poo that the GBS thread is for?

Trabisnikoff posted:

Unless you live in a country that has an actual outbreak, doing these things will do more harm than good. We don't need idiot Americans buying out or increasing the cost of vital PPE just so they can feel meaninglessly safer.

zimboe posted:

What about my question of how long E can persist on contaminated frozen foods?

No one has thought of that route yet.

CoolCab posted:

please god do not make yourselves homemade ebola suits and if you do please do not rely on your hillbilly biotech to protect you from disease

MeLKoR posted:

Well something like a painters suit and protection goggles should provide some protection, right? I mean, better than nothing I'd imagine.

re: pen scratching, if you pick the pen with infected fingers won't it be pointless the next time you use it? Here's a business opportunity for Scratchers^TM, disposable scratching sticks sold in cigarette sized boxes.

e: By "painter's suit" I mean something like this:



No no, it's not for me, don't be silly. I'm just asking for a, eeer, for a friend, yes.

Shageletic posted:

Scratching your face with a pen or random object seems pretty unhygienic to me.

Ebola: National exercise tests UK's plans for virus posted:

A national exercise is taking place to test how the UK would deal with a potential outbreak of the Ebola virus.

In the eight-hour exercise, actors in various parts of the UK are simulating symptoms of Ebola to test the responses of emergency services, government ministers and health chiefs.

It forms part of the UK's contingency plan against Ebola, which has killed more than 4,000 people worldwide.

Passenger screening is to be introduced at key UK airports and rail terminals.

The national exercise, ordered by Prime Minister David Cameron, is expected to include a simulated meeting of the government's Cobra emergency committee, to be chaired by Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt.

Some hospital staff were expected to wear personal protective equipment during the exercise.

A Department of Health spokesman said officials had been planning the response to an Ebola case in the UK for "many months".

"It is vital that we test these plans in as realistic a situation as possible - with real people," the spokesman said.

Figures from the World Health Organization show there have been 4,024 confirmed or suspected Ebola deaths in the worst-affected West African nations of Guinea, Liberia and Sierra Leone during the current outbreak.

In total, there have been 8,399 confirmed or suspected cases, mostly in West Africa.

Screening processes

The government this week said people arriving from areas hit by Ebola would face "enhanced screening" at Heathrow and Gatwick airports, as well as at Eurostar terminals.

Similar measures are being taken in the US, with screening under way at New York's JFK airport and checks at some other airports due to start in the coming days.

UK ministers initially said there were no plans to screen people arriving from Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone.

However, a Downing Street spokesman said the decision to introduce Ebola screening had been based on advice from the Chief Medical Officer, Dame Sally Davies.

Passengers will be asked questions and potentially given a medical assessment during the screening process, Downing Street said.

The Department of Health said further details about how passengers will be checked will be announced next week before the measures come into effect.

In a statement it said "government departments, health protection agencies and the transport sector are continuing to work closely together to minimise the risk" of the virus.

"It is important to stress that given the nature of this disease, no system could offer 100% protection from non-symptomatic cases but the overall risk to the public in the UK remains very low," the statement said.

Mr Cameron said it was right to take action "to keep our own people safe" from Ebola.

PM David Cameron says ministers are "taking all the steps we can to keep our own people safe"

"What we do is we listen to the medical advice and we act on that advice and that's why we're introducing the screening processes at the appropriate ports and airports," he said.

Mr Cameron said the government was focussed on taking action "right across the board to deal with this problem at source".

"We're making a bigger contribution than almost any other country, in West Africa, to help deal with the crisis at its source," he said.

'Delays and disruption'

However, David Mabey, professor of communicable diseases at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, said the screening was a "complete waste of time".

There are currently no direct flights to the UK from the affected areas, but people can fly via Paris or Brussels.

"Are they going to screen everyone from Brussels, Paris, Frankfurt and Amsterdam? That would lead to a lot of delays and disruption," he said.

More than 750 military personnel and the medical ship the Royal Fleet Auxiliary Argus are being sent to West Africa to help in efforts to contain the outbreak.

RFA Argus, which has a fully-equipped hospital including critical care and high-dependency units, arrived in Falmouth, Cornwall, earlier for loading before it sails to Sierra Leone next week.

It will travel with three Merlin helicopters, aircrew and engineers to provide transport and support to medical teams and aid workers.

Personnel from the Army's 22 Field Hospital have been training in York and are expected to be sent to west Africa in the coming weeks to run a 12-bed facility specifically to treat medics who have caught Ebola.

Nintendo Kid posted:

0 to 1 to 0 again is not exponential growth

Pohl posted:

But they generally start to improve or you have some idea of what is wrong with them by that point.
I guess I'm going to stop arguing this because people are ok with the idea that we sent the ebola guy home and our healthcare system is great.


I don't know if you've ever had a 103 temperature but you sure as poo poo are dying. It isn't even remotely normal.