|
I don't care how true to the original it is, Sazh owns hard in the english version and I'd probably hate him if he was just a wacky comedy man straight up.
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
English Sazh has plenty of comedic elements and events to him, anyway, especially in the next two games. Also I'm throwing my hat in with ImpAtom here. There are a lot of good arguments against the plot of the 13 series but the few silly weird words they use pale in comparison to other games in the series and in other fantasy games/books in general.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 06:27
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:I mean, I'd like to see this carried over to Final Fantasy XII. It's ok, I didn't take it that way. I agree that just totally using generic language isn't a great way to handle things - your earlier example of Destiny points this out well. "Jedi" is even a great example of a word that is totally made up and kind of thrown at the audience but somehow Star Wars pulls it off pretty well. I think a big part of that is the foreign aspect of the setting. Several character speak made-up alien languages so an important but made-up word isn't totally out of place. Scifi and fantasy also had already set a precedent for different races getting different names. This is why the Ivalice races and chocobos and moogles work alright, hence why no one bats an eye about the Viera. I think Star Wars, LotR, and Star Trek are good examples that explain why they get a way with this better as well as the Ivalice games. They all have many species/races with their own languages, including the Viera. Everyone knows Tolkien devised an entire ridiculous language for the elves. Same for Trekkies and the Klingons. In 13, the apostrophe-laden names hint at another language due to their foreign structure, maybe one the fal'Cie spoke in ancient times or something. It's very reminiscent of the romanization of middle eastern and African languages. But based on my play through from years ago, I don't remember any other unusual language constructs in the game. Everyone speaks the same language, and important and even strange old places have oddly common English names. So the 'cie thing stands out as unexplained and half-baked. I think that the point someone made about pacing actually getting in the way of the story-telling early on by mixing action and exposition is fair as well. bloodychill fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Oct 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 06:40
|
|
|
I hated that apostrophe. I didn't have any trouble remembering it I just hated the apostrophe. I'd have been happier with Lacie, Falcie and Cieth.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 06:56
|
|
|
I'm also never going to defend silly poo poo like SOLDIER (they're soldiers but special so caps, see?) or SeeD, which still slightly annoys me to this day because I feel forced to wonder whether it's pronounced "seed" or "see-dee" because they thought naming the child soldiers just "Seeds" would look sillier.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:06
|
|
|
I just pronounce SOLDIER enthusiastically because it's all caps.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:08
|
|
|
Did anyone who got the visual glitch with Lighting's hair and eyelashes ever get that fixed? Just popped up for me and it's driving me nuts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:18
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:I'm also never going to defend silly poo poo like SOLDIER (they're soldiers but special so caps, see?) or SeeD, which still slightly annoys me to this day because I feel forced to wonder whether it's pronounced "seed" or "see-dee" because they thought naming the child soldiers just "Seeds" would look sillier. The actual reason for SOLDIER is that it's just the English word "Soldier" in Japanese so they had to figure out some way to differentiate it and the regular word soldier. So they went for all-caps. Seed is the same thing (I'm not sure why they went for SeeD instead.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:18
|
|
|
Beef Waifu posted:I just pronounce SOLDIER enthusiastically because it's all caps. I do this too
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:19
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I remember liking Fran's voice, is it considered bad here? No, a lot of people like Fran's voice. I just really didn't dig the accent or the monotone she almost always spoke with.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:26
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I just don't like that they wasted Mary-Elizabeth McGlynn on a minor character like Hope's mom. Wait, Sunleth Waterscape wasn't FFXIII's theme song?
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 07:47
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I remember liking Fran's voice, is it considered bad here? I thought the voice fit quite well. The kneejerk reaction to the character is that she's a bunny girl with a visible rear end.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
I'm sure there was something else being jerked as well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 08:44
|
|
|
Nihilarian posted:I hated that apostrophe. I didn't have any trouble remembering it I just hated the apostrophe. I'd have been happier with Lacie, Falcie and Cieth. Yeah, this is me as well. The names themselves aren't any worse than what we typically get, but those apostrophes annoyed the hell out of me because they just didn't feel natural.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 08:44
|
|
|
ApplesandOranges posted:Wait, Sunleth Waterscape wasn't FFXIII's theme song? Yeah, FFXIII's theme song is sung all the time in the english version, in english https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxSXm8qGjS8 They just had some weird compulsion and put "my hands" in the game and in all the marketing. I think the thinking probably went something like "well we got a Jpop singer to sing a Jpop song for the game so let's get a song from somebody who's popular in the west to sing in the english version" but somehow forgot that the Jpop song was actually a song specifically made for the game and not just some random bullshit. edit: guess I was wrong. That song I linked is probably considered the "main theme" for FF13 but there actually was a Jpop song that wasn't in the english version that I didn't know about. I'm dumb too because I remember watching the trailer with that song in it over and over. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TauG36TbeSc Best Jpop song in a FF game is still the original, though:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcW0oiLKHg Mischitary fucked around with this message at 08:58 on Oct 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 08:52
|
|
|
Ibram Gaunt posted:Did anyone who got the visual glitch with Lighting's hair and eyelashes ever get that fixed? Just popped up for me and it's driving me nuts. It's an AA thing. I had mine off. edit: Alright, this whole save thing is getting stupid. Literally as it follows: -Save point, walk to checkpoint -Would you like to save -cutscene -would you like to save -cutscene -would you like to save -switch to 2 completely different characters -start next to a checkpoint Tae fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Oct 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 09:09
|
|
|
Mischitary posted:Best Jpop song in a FF game is still the original, though:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qcW0oiLKHg I prefer "1000 Words" myself. X-2's soundtrack is the weakest in the series but it has several standout songs that can rival any other FF OST. It's just that they are few and far between.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 09:21
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:No, a lot of people like Fran's voice. I just really didn't dig the accent or the monotone she almost always spoke with. My wife has a voice crush on Fran, I enjoy it.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 09:34
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:You literally cannot know how the protagonists were saved in the end without the sequel or the datalogs. "Etro" was never mentioned once in a cutscene, let alone "Etro is the one who saved your asses or else you all be dead." This is my problem with the ending as well. The actual story is only present in the datalogs, so you won't know what really happened during the ending even with the enormous number of cutscenes. Since the story is told from the characters' perspective, even they have no idea what's happening, since they didn't realise that Etro intervened at the last moment. You'd think they could have cut away at some point to show Etro observing the main characters, becoming concerned about what will happen when they reach orphan, and step into a gate that looks like the one behind the final boss. It's still a poo poo ending since the characters didn't do anything special but fight a lot, then a Goddess appears from nowhere to fix everything, but at least you'd know what happened without having to read through a bunch of pretentiously-written story summaries.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 09:42
|
|
|
I still can't get over that our heroes did exactly what the villain wanted. Only they didn't have the excuse of Kuja or Kefka manipulating them, they just straight up did what the villain wanted even after he repeatedly told them they were doing what he wanted. Bart: Destroy Orphan and Cocoon along with it! Party: No! Destroying the fal'Cie is our real Focus! (seriously, they said that quite a few times) Oh wait, Orphan is a fal'Cie and now he/she/it is here and we have to fight back or die and now it's dead and Cocoon is destroyed. Etro: I'll save you! Party: Well it sure is nice you exist Goddess Never Mentioned Before or else we would have killed everyone on Cocoon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 10:08
|
|
|
FF13's Cie-words aren't confusing. They just sound dumb to actually say or hear.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 10:29
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I still can't get over that our heroes did exactly what the villain wanted. Only they didn't have the excuse of Kuja or Kefka manipulating them, they just straight up did what the villain wanted even after he repeatedly told them they were doing what he wanted. Actually it's Fang and Vanille saving everyone on Cocoon. Etro just turned everyone back to normal so we could have a happy ending which was undone in the sequel anyway. It was still stupid admittedly. "We aren't killing Oprhan / everyone on Cocoon because you told us to, but because WE DECIDED TO DO IT OUTSELVES. Which means we win, somehow."
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 10:30
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:I think Star Wars, LotR, and Star Trek are good examples that explain why they get a way with this better as well as the Ivalice games. They all have many species/races with their own languages, including the Viera. Everyone knows Tolkien devised an entire ridiculous language for the elves. Same for Trekkies and the Klingons. In 13, the apostrophe-laden names hint at another language due to their foreign structure, maybe one the fal'Cie spoke in ancient times or something. It's very reminiscent of the romanization of middle eastern and African languages. But based on my play through from years ago, I don't remember any other unusual language constructs in the game. Everyone speaks the same language, and important and even strange old places have oddly common English names. So the 'cie thing stands out as unexplained and half-baked. I remember that FF11 did this pretty well. There'd be the occasional wacky name complete with gratuitous apostrophe (Ro'Maeve, Pso'Xja, Eald'narche, etc.), but as you progressed through the story it became clear that that sort of name meant that the person or place was somehow related to or named by the Zilart (requisite ancient advanced civilization). Plus, of course, those sorts of names weren't being thrown at you early on or used for fundamental concepts. They were mostly seen in endgame areas and missions, circa the first two or so expansions at least. NikkolasKing posted:I still can't get over that our heroes did exactly what the villain wanted. Only they didn't have the excuse of Kuja or Kefka manipulating them, they just straight up did what the villain wanted even after he repeatedly told them they were doing what he wanted. That was so terrible. The game built up the trip to Pulse such that I expected the party would find another way out of their dilemma (other than 'do what the bad guy wants' or 'give up and turn into a mindless zombie'). But no, it's all a waste of time and nothing is accomplished. So they decide they have no choice but to do exactly what the bad guy wants and hope that everything works out somehow. And then it does because of literally divine intervention. Great plotting, guys.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 11:02
|
|
|
bloodychill posted:It's ok, I didn't take it that way. I agree that just totally using generic language isn't a great way to handle things - your earlier example of Destiny points this out well. "Jedi" is even a great example of a word that is totally made up and kind of thrown at the audience but somehow Star Wars pulls it off pretty well. I think a big part of that is the foreign aspect of the setting. Several character speak made-up alien languages so an important but made-up word isn't totally out of place. Scifi and fantasy also had already set a precedent for different races getting different names. This is why the Ivalice races and chocobos and moogles work alright, hence why no one bats an eye about the Viera. A few points on presentation. Naming races is easy. You see the race, you hear the name. The job is done. It doesn't matter if the name is completely made up, the audience has all they need to connect the dots. Jedi is a bit more complicated, but it is the same principle. The way Jedi are presented are with icons. Lightsabers. Finally, they are fairly consistent in design, being some sort of magic monk/samurai archetype or something. They are visually, and thematically distinct from the rest of the world and internally consistent with eachother. The series then handles things that are not concrete very bluntly. "The Force". Nothing made up, and it says all the audience needs to know about it by using words they know. Since they can not receive a physical image to mentally catalog, the name has to do all of the work. Having a visual reference for the verbal reference is important. If you can not give the audience a very clear and distinct visual image to catalog the new word with your fantasy name will not stick. l'Cie technically has the brands, but l'Cie is a bit more of a fantasy description for how those branded relate to the rest of the world. Relationships are purely 'imaginary'. Cataloging an imaginary word with imaginary 'stuff' doesn't work out. Fal'Cie have a different problem in that visual design in the series takes an overdesigned hyper-fantasy approach to the point that little in the world is visually distinct. So while the situation with Fal'Cie is better, the visual design of the games didn't help the audience with a distinct mental image to catalog with the term. Coupled with being near identical to l'Cie and you get a confused audience.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 12:46
|
|
|
NikkolasKing posted:I still can't get over that our heroes did exactly what the villain wanted. Only they didn't have the excuse of Kuja or Kefka manipulating them, they just straight up did what the villain wanted even after he repeatedly told them they were doing what he wanted. The Goddess is mentioned in the story, after you beat Barthandelus in Oerba, there's the Cieth stone, that says the Goddess stopped Fang destroying Cocoon when she turned into Ragnarok the first time. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned other times as well, didn't they say that Etro sent the Eidolons? Also with everyone talking about Cid dying then coming back, he was just turned to crystal. Him being back was kinda pointless, but using him as Primarch set off the Cavalry to attack Eden so it wasn't an entire waste of time.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 12:52
|
|
|
Renoistic posted:Actually it's Fang and Vanille saving everyone on Cocoon. Etro just turned everyone back to normal so we could have a happy ending which was undone in the sequel anyway. It was still stupid admittedly. "We aren't killing Oprhan / everyone on Cocoon because you told us to, but because WE DECIDED TO DO IT OUTSELVES. Which means we win, somehow." I think the idea was that they thought Barthandelus was going to betray Orphan but when they get to Orphan's Cradle, they realize that every Cocoon Fal'Cie was in on Barthandelus' plan, at which point the party just threw up their hands and went "welp, may as well kill Orphan now".
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 13:12
|
|
|
So this is my 2nd play through of XIII and I gotta say that I am surprisingly enjoying it a lot more than my first time. I think it is because I know what to expect from the story, landscapes, characters, voice acting, etc. So far, none of the complaints I had previously are bothering me this time. Not sure why but this is only a good thing so I am just going to run with it.  In fact, the 720p thing isn't even bothering me but I will probably check out that mod after it matures more. The control settings are also pretty reasonably imo. I prefer to be able to customize everything, but all of the stuff that I care about customizing is customizable. My only real complaint is the stuttering issue that some people including myself experience. I guess this is an old issue that is not XIII or FF specific, but it still sucks. For those experiencing stuttering every 2-7 seconds, this fix worked for me: Source quote:This is caused by the engine incorrectly overpolling the USB I/O in Windows. This is mainly apparent in all versions of Windows 7. None of the HID-Compliant Devices that I disabled involve hardware that I am using while playing the game. KB/M still worked fine for me. Xavier434 fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Oct 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 14:23
|
|
|
Djehuti posted:The Goddess is mentioned in the story, after you beat Barthandelus in Oerba, there's the Cieth stone, that says the Goddess stopped Fang destroying Cocoon when she turned into Ragnarok the first time. I'm pretty sure it was mentioned other times as well, didn't they say that Etro sent the Eidolons? 13 is really bad about talking about the mythology. The only gods ever mentioned explicitly by name are Pulse and Lindzei, and Lindzei is only ever mentioned in the Analect datalogs. Etro is talked about a couple times as "The Goddess", but she's never namedropped until you unlock the absolute final datalog for beating Vercingetorix: quote:Analect XIII: Fabula Nova Crystalis Even aside from that, the only real mentions of the Goddess are in two other datalogs: quote:Analect IV: The Heavenly Deceit quote:Analect IX: Her Providence So yes, it does mention that Etro stopped Fang when she became Ragnarok, but only if you do half (or all) of the hunts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 14:44
|
|
|
Artix posted:13 is really bad about talking about the mythology. Is this really such a bad thing though? It's not like XIII is the first trilogy (video game or otherwise) which didn't provide the majority of the explanation during the first part of the series. I can understand the complaints about some key stuff only being in a datalog though.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:00
|
|
|
Oh no, for a standalone game it would be perfectly fine, and if the sequels had kept a similar slant on the mythology it would have been okay. The problem is that the sequels lean hard on the backstory - 13-2 is all about Etro and LR is all about Bhunivelze, the latter of which has literally never been mentioned by name in either of the first two games. It's just weird how hard they changed direction for the sequels.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:09
|
|
|
Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:11
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. The second Shadow Hearts games wasn't too different from the first. Refined the battle system a little bit, had more playable characters...
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:19
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. Final Fantasy IV: The After Years is 70% repeating events that happened in Final Fantasy IV, albeit with different characters. Also, almost every single boss in FFIV is a boss in The After Years, though at least they're rebalanced appropriately.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:48
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. Golden Sun: Dark Dawn is almost too similar to the original Golden Sun and The Lost Age, which were released separately but intended to be the same game. The battle system received a single, fairly minor (but exceptionally divisive) tweak, and the graphics were updated, but other than that the games are almost identical.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. XIII-2 is just unused assets from XIII with some tweaks to the combat, but it's basically the same
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:06
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. Star Ocean 2 is basically just a greatly expanded version of the first game. Tales of Xillia 2 uses almost all of the same systems from the first game. Digital Devil Saga 2 is really just the second part of the story. Persona 4's battle system and S.Link system are really similar although they do have some improvements. The plot is completely different though. To be honest FF13 and FF13-2 are more similar than they are different. They both use basically the exact same battle system with three characters and paradigm shifts. All of the roles (RAV, COM, MED, etc.) are the exact same and the types of Paradigms you can make are all basically the same.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:19
|
|
|
SolidSnakesBandana posted:Has there ever been a JRPG sequel that was significantly similar to its predecessor? All the ones I can think of make drastic changes to the plot and battle systems, when what everyone really wants out of popular JRPG sequels is more of the same. Suikoden II improved a lot of things from the first game, but the mostly the same combat with some quality of life changes like more runes slots. Only major change was the new major battle system, which was a downgrade since it barely worked.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
Artix posted:Oh no, for a standalone game it would be perfectly fine, and if the sequels had kept a similar slant on the mythology it would have been okay. The problem is that the sequels lean hard on the backstory - 13-2 is all about Etro and LR is all about Bhunivelze, the latter of which has literally never been mentioned by name in either of the first two games. It's just weird how hard they changed direction for the sequels. Nah Bunnywhatever does get mentioned by name in the main plot part of 13-2. All of once mind, and it was during the endgame cutscene when Hope names his dorky new planet after the guy. Which is meant to be this deep, big symbolic moment but it falls waaaaaaaaaaaay flat when he's not mentioned any other time ever. Maybe deep in the datalogs or whatever but gently caress reading those things. I didn't do it for games I liked, I'm not doing it now.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 10, 2024 18:33 |
|
|
Artix posted:Oh no, for a standalone game it would be perfectly fine, and if the sequels had kept a similar slant on the mythology it would have been okay. The problem is that the sequels lean hard on the backstory - 13-2 is all about Etro and LR is all about Bhunivelze, the latter of which has literally never been mentioned by name in either of the first two games. It's just weird how hard they changed direction for the sequels. The "higher" gods aren't relevant to the first game, except that they exist and they're not around any more. It's a story about humans vs. fal'cie, and it's good that they kept everything else vague because apparently just that one slice on its own was super confusing for a lot of people. The 2nd game is about the fallout from what Etro did, so they explain who she is and what she did. The 3rd game is about everything, so there's a whole main quest line where you stand around some rooms reading about the mythology. They explain what you need to know when you need to know it, and I actually think they managed it pretty well. Except the first ending where Etro drops in, obviously. I guess they expected people to be intrigued or whatever and go find out what happened, without realising it's actually indistinguishable from a thousand other animes with lovely endings where the power of the human spirit conquers all.
|
|
#
?
Oct 11, 2014 16:26
|
|
