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cowofwar posted:Purposely living in squalor when you're young so that you can be rich when you're old is bad with money. I'd prefer to live life (which costs money) when I'm young and have less disposable income when I'm old and physically useless. Most people who are living a MMM style lifestyle aren't living in squalor. If your life is dramatically improved from spending 10k extra a year or whatever, more power to you. TLG James fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 18:36
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FCKGW posted:Living like a college student sucks rear end that's why it's called "living like a college student" and not just "living". Seriously though, college life is proof that you don't need to spend bongo bux to have fun. Even the kids putting too much crap on their student loans aren't really spending all that much compared to your average working stiff.
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Oct 9, 2014 18:38
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the littlest prince posted:Wow. I had no idea this was so expensive. I guess the number of members at each is typically pretty low though, isn't it. That doesn't account for initiation fees, which can go much higher in certain parts of the country. For example, Los Angeles: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/las-power-golf-clubs-hollywood-205072 and http://www.southlandgolfmagazine.com/t-courses-prestigious-country-clubs.aspx Feral Bueller fucked around with this message at 19:30 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 19:27
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Sarcasmatron posted:That doesn't account for initiation fees, which can go much higher in certain parts of the country. For example, Los Angeles: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/las-power-golf-clubs-hollywood-205072 and http://www.southlandgolfmagazine.com/t-courses-prestigious-country-clubs.aspx Also the dining is not included - the costs of meals/drinks are all added to your tab.
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Oct 9, 2014 19:43
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There're country clubs that are much cheaper though too. One of the clubs in this area is I think $10,000 for the initiation which is resalable, and fully transferable (also free if you have a house near the course), and an additional $5,000/year, $10,000/family. One of our less pretentious courses is only $1,200 a year no initiation fee. Then there's much smaller ones for around $600/yr. Those are par 27 9-hole courses though. I had the benefit of going to a really ritzy country club one time when a client I was working for took my boss and I there. It really doesn't seem worth it. The drinks are still expensive, the atmosphere is boring, and actually just all of it was boring. It was kind of cool to meet a bunch of people who had multiple exotic cars and stuff, but even if I could afford it I wouldn't want to pay for that. The golf may be worth it, but then you're stuck at having to play at one course all of the time. Seems like a bad with money thing to me, unless you entertain people for business related matters pretty often, or use it to network.
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Oct 9, 2014 20:07
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There are plenty in those price ranges, but I'd guess for every one there is 20 that are sub 3k a year, and many less than 2. Citing places like Bel-Air/Riviera/Madison Club is faaaaaar from the norm. Probably would be equivalent to citing a $5,000,000 house as an average home purchase, or likely more. The cheaper types of clubs only appeal if you like to golf a lot though, not if you are looking for a status symbol. *In the interest of full disclosure, if I had the money to afford a membership at Riviera, I totally would. Bob Mundon fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 9, 2014 |
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Oct 9, 2014 20:42
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Cicero posted:Yeah because most people don't have any fun when they're a college student and have way more fun once they're in the workfhahahahahaha What makes higher education fun is that all of your friends are in the same situation as you, lots of time and no money. This isn't true afterwards so the lifesryle isn't redo able.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:11
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opus111 posted:What makes higher education fun is that all of your friends are in the same situation as you, lots of time and no money. This isn't true afterwards so the lifesryle isn't redo able. This is 100% true - as an older student, the college lifestyle is Hell on earth.
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Oct 9, 2014 22:50
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opus111 posted:What makes higher education fun is that all of your friends are in the same situation as you, lots of time and no money. This isn't true afterwards so the lifesryle isn't redo able. This isn't true for everyone. It can be fun to simplify your life. At 26, I'm doing it right now. When I graduated school, I immediately bought a car. Eventually moved into a big-people apartment and continued along the lifestyle inflation path as my salary increased. After some serious considerations as to what I truly value in life, now I'm going in reverse. I did buy a townhouse last year, but I have two roommates that pretty much cover the mortgage. I may be adding a third roommate in the Spring. I'm selling my car shortly in favour of biking, walking, public transit, cheap off-season car rentals and a car share program. As a result, I'm living off of around 20% of my net salary, while saving and investing the rest. Living like a college student is actually BETTER when you don't have you and you just choose to. Except I eat really well - no Ramen or Mr. Noodles for me.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:09
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opus111 posted:What makes higher education fun is that all of your friends are in the same situation as you, lots of time and no money. This isn't true afterwards so the lifesryle isn't redo able.
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Oct 9, 2014 23:27
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Rick Rickshaw posted:This isn't true for everyone. It can be fun to simplify your life. At 26, I'm doing it right now. When I graduated school, I immediately bought a car. Eventually moved into a big-people apartment and continued along the lifestyle inflation path as my salary increased. This is nice and I'm glad it's working for you but it's not a lifestyle that works well with things like a family and kids.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:43
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FCKGW posted:This is nice and I'm glad it's working for you but it's not a lifestyle that works well with things like a family and kids. The exact example there? Sure, that's true, roommates and a family doesn't mix well. Saving over half of what you earn while feeding a family and keeping them in relative luxury? Definitely possible for less than most people think, it just requires planning and sticking to the plan.
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Oct 10, 2014 00:48
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FCKGW posted:This is nice and I'm glad it's working for you but it's not a lifestyle that works well with things like a family and kids.  Actually people can and do raise all sorts of families at all sorts of spending levels, with all sorts of transportation habits, and in all sorts of housing situations.e: your post reminds me of the last bit of this Daniel Kay Hertz post: Daniel Kay Hertz posted:I should note that the other issue that I get “just wait till you have children!” emails about is living in apartments. “Wait till you have kids, and see if you don’t want a single family home in the suburbs!” The problem with this, again, is that I was once a child, and as a child I had the opportunity to experience both living in an apartment in a large city and living in a single family home in the suburbs. To the extent that I had a preference, it leaned strongly towards the apartment, where I could go play with my friends without bugging my parents to drive me. pig slut lisa fucked around with this message at 00:56 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 00:52
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FCKGW posted:This is nice and I'm glad it's working for you but it's not a lifestyle that works well with things like a family and kids. I was biking behind a father and daughter duo on my way to work this morning. She looked like she was having fun watching the world go by as daddy pumped his legs. She'll also be happy that daddy is still around when she has kids of her own because he's staying healthy by using active transportation. In other words, gently caress the 'burbs.
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Oct 10, 2014 01:13
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I was reading the thread about that bankrupt Apple supplier, and apparently two guys who haven't been heard from since the crash each own "1% of the float". What does that mean?
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Oct 10, 2014 01:23
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Bob Mundon posted:There are plenty in those price ranges, but I'd guess for every one there is 20 that are sub 3k a year, and many less than 2. Citing places like Bel-Air/Riviera/Madison Club is faaaaaar from the norm. Probably would be equivalent to citing a $5,000,000 house as an average home purchase, or likely more. Yeah, Jasna Polana was the ritzy club in town and that's like 50k just in initiation fees, etc. But for Jasna Polana we also had like 60 other golfcourses including the one my buddy caddy'd at where it was "$10 for 18 holes, wear loving whatever" golf course. There are definitely tons of cheap golf options out there if you're a golfer, but if you're a serious golfer, or if you are in an area where the country club thing is still big (is there anywhere like that anymore? I mean even loving Princeton, the waspiest of WASP towns is breaking away from it) i suppose it can definitely be worth it if you golf frequently. (I mean, my friends dad would usually make it out 5-6 times a week and if he wasn't at the course he had net set up in his yard to hit into, so for them, the $15k they spent in his CC membership/yr was totally worth it, as if he had to pay $50/week at the cheap course and then extra for little pro shop stuff and cart rental and stuff he'd be well over the 15k he paid to get all the little amenities. He's also the oddball where leasing a car made more sense than buying. She bought, he leased cause he was in sales, needed to constantly be impressing clients, and the company paid like 60% of his lease.) But they're not the ones bad with money, they do some things that make no sense to a lot of people, but they work in their specific and unique set of circumnstances, like leasing one of the cars, and then they did lease their oldest daughters car because one of the stipulations with the dealership they went to is they could transfer the lease to any other model car by the manufacturer in a similar price range, knowing their daughter's indecisiveness about everything, and they used that lease to trade for different models twice because she didn't like the car she had, so it made sense cause in that 2yr span, they could afford it, and the daughter was really bad with money at the time. (She has since gotten way more responsible since marrying a good blue collar guy and realizing that "Parents who are mid level execs for multi-national corp" is not an average salary to live on, and has since scaled her spending down to be considerably more modest...it's no longer designer everything every season and is instead "A few designer things a year as a treat, and keeping designer poo poo that's a season or two out because no one actually cares in the real world if your clothes are a season out of date") Yes, their kids were spoiled, but they cleared 300k between em, had enough in their 401k to last them both well into their 110s, paid for both their kids to go to college debt-free, so hey, they had the income to spoil their kids. I kinda envy my friend cause she got to get her masters debt free and landed a great gig teaching that pays enough of her bills as a part-time thing that she can devote herself to her main love, cheerleading, while she's still young and limber, and she pays the rest of her bills with the money she gets coaching cheer squads. She has a roommate to cut on her expenses, so she's not living the high life, but she manages to live well for herself, saves a bit, but she is a little more cavalier than some of us just because she knows in case of serious emergency like breaking both arms and both legs at the same time, or ebola breaking out and having to go a month+ without any income, even temp work, she can count on The Bank of Mom and Dad. She has enough covered to lose the teaching gig for 3 months or the cheer gig for a year, and she's not below picking up retail to supplement either income, so she's in great shape for her early 20's. But this is not the "people who make good decisions after being dealt a good hand in life" thread. "This is the people who are bad with money" thread,a nd until the country club thing popped up which got me going... I originally came here to post about my friend C. C is a great guy, but C's never been good with money. He's smart, but he wastes money pissing it away on little piddly poo poo, and laziness. Like fines because he forgets to pay fines, $50 overdue fees at the library cause he forgets to bring books back, kinda pissing money away poo poo. C is great at what he does, and quickly rose to the top of his department at his old job, and his boss who had only seen him running the production side of things quickly took him under his wing to take over the company. Now, those of us who know C had sorta remarked when he said he was taking poo poo over that he wanted to get himself a good accountant and stuff, and let the people who know money handle the money. C...is a fiercely independent farm boy. So long as politics ain't on the table (he's polite enough not to bring em up, and we're polite enough to forget he's a hard core red-state republican) And he decided he didn't need help, he always paid his bills, why would it be any different with the business? Well, he pissed away money and the other investors saw their profits starting to drop, and quickly bought C out of his shares of the company. What does C do? Not learn from this experience. No, he goes and opens his own biz in the same industry. Again, we remark that he should leave money with money people, and...of course, C knew better, and for the first few years, C made money hand-over-fist, because he got to put a whole bunch of efficient poo poo together, and lucked into a bunch of poo poo as well. We all kinda shut up cause we figured C really did learn his lesson. Now, a few years later C is in debt up to his eyebrows begging one of us to take this biz off his hands. And he's still too proud to file for bankruptcy, especially since he was at least smart enough to set up a corp and put everything in the name of the corp. So he owes money to the city, to the state, to employees, to suppliers, to contractors, to the landlord, to pretty much loving everyone and he's in a scramble every day to cover day-to-day obligations of the business. And his dumb rear end, rather than continue to keep trying to keep the biz afloat with its own money started sinking the money he made back into it as it kept failing and failing and failing worse and worse due to dumb poo poo, like forgetting to pay this bill and then having late fees, or forgetting to get his unemployment taxes in, so he had a fine for that, or forgetting to set up witholdings correctly so it hit him for the wrong amount, and then he had to pay the difference, sort of things, and during slow months it started to hit the "need to take out credit to cover things, but then buisness picks up and covers it" stages since he had sort of pissed away the liquid reserves that he had, but he'd miss a payment and get slammed with interest, not because he hadn't had a good month, but just out of his own laziness. If he just had someone for the money side of things, he'd still be making money hand over fist, since the company does bring in revenue - and could be making twice what it does if he was able to focus on running it again instead of the madcap scramble to cover obligations but its managed to wind up upside down on the debt/revenue balance over a series of years, all from piddly poo poo. I used to waste money too (I still do, but I'm getting better and better at it every month, it becomes a lot easier to deny yourself a starbucks after you've gone two weeks without one than it is the first day.) but C...C is a great cautionary tale. Dr Jankenstein fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Oct 10, 2014 |
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Oct 10, 2014 01:39
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Mentos Dan posted:I was reading the thread about that bankrupt Apple supplier, and apparently two guys who haven't been heard from since the crash each own "1% of the float". What does that mean? They were claiming to have owned ~1% of the total shares in the company. If true, they still had more money than most people will ever have even after the value dropped to 1$ a share, which is troubling. It's pretty easy to figure (google) out who StrayTrader twitter more is, he only lost 'half of his assets' boohoo. No word from wisconsincheese.
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Oct 10, 2014 03:26
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Rick Rickshaw posted:This isn't true for everyone. It can be fun to simplify your life. At 26, I'm doing it right now. When I graduated school, I immediately bought a car. Eventually moved into a big-people apartment and continued along the lifestyle inflation path as my salary increased. My point is more that it relies on your friends being in the same boat. I save my money but my friends don't, and if I want to be with them I have to spend money. This wasn't the case at uni.
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Oct 10, 2014 04:43
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Ron Paul Atreides posted:Bad cause I am mid twenties and no retirement savings or much savings of any kind, not because I don't care but still finishing up college after a few wasted years in a lovely Major Technically I'm worse off as I'm only starting my retirement savings and I'm 39. I took a different direction and started a business which I am growing and have 30% equity in my house. It's never too late to start your retirement savings. Don't worry that sometimes life doesn't follow a linear path.
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Oct 10, 2014 07:03
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SmuglyDismissed posted:They were claiming to have owned ~1% of the total shares in the company. If true, they still had more money than most people will ever have even after the value dropped to 1$ a share, which is troubling. Almost - the 'free float' is the share pool that is available to trade on the open market. So for example, if I was to own a company and go public by selling 20% of it, 80% of the shares are still in my (or early investors) pockets and the free float is 20% of the company. So 1% of the free float is a fraction of 1% of the company.
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Oct 10, 2014 10:11
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AA is for Quitters posted:
I ain't your friend, pal! (no, but seriously that sucks for other C)
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Oct 10, 2014 12:17
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pig slut lisa posted:
drat right. Most people have a very hard time imagining other people raising kids in any other environment than the exact one they were raised in. I catch this all the time from my in-laws, and it started before the kids were even born ( MIL argued about midwives vs. doctors, mom staying home vs. nanny taking care of them, living in a 1000 square foot apartment with kids vs. a 2000 square foot house.) The biggest difference is we lived in metropolitan urban cities, while everyone we were related to came from a suburb of varying degrees of rural-ness. The economics for many of our choices were based on that.
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Oct 10, 2014 19:25
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Family sucks so much. I've got a sister-in-law who is terrible with money. It took 15 years, but I finally managed to convince my wife to never give this woman another dime. Annnnnnd then her mother calls up hysterically crying because she's $25,000 in debt on a credit card at 30% interest. What we think happened (no one will tell us) is the sister used the card while recovering from a bad auto crash and waiting for the accident settlement. When she finally got her $100,000 check she forgot she borrowed anything from her mother. Her mother, realizing she was now hosed, freaked out and started talking about killing herself. So my wife reacts emotionally and takes out a $15k 401k loan with the understanding that mother-in-law pays us back and that my wife's two sisters would cover the rest. Fast forward 10 months and not only have we never received a penny from her mom, her sisters just finally started helping with the rest. Well, sister. The other sister that probably borrowed all the money and is constantly asking for handouts? She got her settlement, bought a decent car, and then her husband started his own construction business. Now they're out of money and borrowing again from her parents. Best part is the money's all gone and they live in Vermont, so his cash flow just disappeared (can't do outdoor construction in the winter). So much for his business. And the worst part? I was out of work for almost 3 years and had to borrow money from my mom to pay off my wife's 401k loans. That extra money every paycheck pretty much got us through the worst of it. I've since gotten a good job, but now we have a loving 401k loan again. And I'm paying my mom back. And her sister found a way to get into our wallets after all. 
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Oct 10, 2014 20:43
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Sever from this family stat or get them some drastic counseling on handling money and being responsible adults.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:18
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No, he needs to go to counseling with his wife on the topic of making financial decisions together.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:29
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No, he needs to divorce, the wife is a financial weak link!
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Oct 10, 2014 21:35
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More adventures with my roommate. About a month ago, he emptied out his 401k, for the second time in his life, at age 36. He told me that the purpose of this was to pay off debts and to get dental surgery. He *did* apparently pay off his debts, bought shoes that weren't falling apart and glasses to replace his broken pair. These are all good things. However, what I also saw was: - bragging on Facebook about how he was going to be in the green next week, he was going to get a pool installed in our backyard (even though we're renting a house...), he was talking to three different lending agencies about buying a house, etc. (I told him that bragging about his money was an awful idea) - getting matching mani-pedi and spa treatments for both himself and a friend (After this one, I asked him how he was coming along with the dental surgery. He said he hadn't looked up the prices yet) - buying multiple kilts - having a box full of nitrous capsules shipped to our apartment every two weeks from Amazon. Our apartment was *covered* in empty capsules. And even if they were all tossed in a box instead of scattered all over the floor, a box full of capsules was surprisingly heavy and a pain to lift. - in addition to the above, tons of liquor and other party favors - buying a smart watch - buying a flatscreen tv (even though we had a friend who was giving away decent, wide-screen tvs for free) - buying a Star Wars lego set - buying 10 copies of this self-help book that helped him through depression so he could always have copies to lend to friends... Lately I noticed that his spending had slowed down, and I hoped that it meant he was using his money more reasonably. But I'm guessing that he's spent all of it somehow... I just came home early, and the landlord informed me that the check for his share of the rent bounced.
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Oct 10, 2014 21:57
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Krispy Kareem posted:Family sucks so much. Hasn't anybody in this story ever heard of bankruptcy? 
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Oct 10, 2014 21:58
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legsarerequired posted:More adventures with my roommate. I had to check your previous post. Talking about buying a house and being unable to pay rent seems to be a common theme. Your roommate seems to have no concept of saving, cash flow, making payments nor not spending more than he earns. He's probably talked to three different places about getting a house because they've all turned him down. I could understand borrowing from a 401k to top up savings to buy a house (if the numbers stacked up). On the topic of family being terrible some friends of mine helped buy a brother-in-law a van that he needs for transport and work. This purchase is sitting on their credit card and apparently they've received no money. They are ending up putting that amount on their mortgage. Nothing like family setting back plans for moving to a better house buy not repaying a small loan. Your roommate also reminds me of a friend who is into collectibles. He did admit on facebook the other day carrying a credit card balance and trying to resist the urge to buy more. I can understand needing to carry a balance on occasions but not for decorative junk.
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Oct 10, 2014 22:26
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Devian666 posted:Your roommate also reminds me of a friend who is into collectibles. He did admit on facebook the other day carrying a credit card balance and trying to resist the urge to buy more. I can understand needing to carry a balance on occasions but not for decorative junk. I never understood collectibles either. It's confusing because we've had these problems with him ever since he first moved in. He'll buy a ton of weed and liquor and/or some kind of collectible right after he gets his paycheck, then he suddenly needs extra time for all of his bills. It's really jarring to see this in a 36-year old.
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Oct 10, 2014 23:15
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legsarerequired posted:- having a box full of nitrous capsules shipped to our apartment every two weeks from Amazon. Our apartment was *covered* in empty capsules. And even if they were all tossed in a box instead of scattered all over the floor, a box full of capsules was surprisingly heavy and a pain to lift.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:30
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Nail Rat posted:Hasn't anybody in this story ever heard of bankruptcy? It's a little more complex than that. My father-in-law's sister was pulling this same kind of poo poo to his mother, who stroked out and died from the stress of hiding everything. Then his father died a year later. So everyone is scared shitless that my father-in-law's going to find out and lose his poo poo in a biblical fashion. So we're hiding everything from him (except for the money she borrows directly from him - she pays that back). It's as if everybody thinks that somehow the next time will be different. Everyone always thinks the next time will be different. I'm really surprised no one in that family ever bought a time share. Someone could have won 'Terrible Financial Decision Bingo' with that one.
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Oct 11, 2014 01:44
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I can't decide whether it's a good thing or a bad thing for your life that you decided to stay with your wife despite her wasting likely years of your working life's output supporting her family, and as a result you may now be a burden on your own children.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:01
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baquerd posted:I can't decide whether it's a good thing or a bad thing for your life that you decided to stay with your wife despite her wasting likely years of your working life's output supporting her family, and as a result you may now be a burden on your own children. Good thing, as even with her parasitic family, she out earns me by a significant margin. The difference between a business degree and a sociology major I guess.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:05
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Krispy Kareem posted:Good thing, as even with her parasitic family, she out earns me by a significant margin. The difference between a business degree and a sociology major I guess. *facepalm* I married a sociology major, I'm bad with money. At least she has a part time online teaching gig teaching 2-3 classes per semester (including summer) that earns less than full time minimum wage employment.
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Oct 11, 2014 03:27
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MorgaineDax posted:I have no idea what buying on margin means. Someone smart here explain it as you would to a child. Or a golden retriever?
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Oct 11, 2014 06:13
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Krispy Kareem posted:It's a little more complex than that. My father-in-law's sister was pulling this same kind of poo poo to his mother, who stroked out and died from the stress of hiding everything. Then his father died a year later. So everyone is scared shitless that my father-in-law's going to find out and lose his poo poo in a biblical fashion. Don't hide major life altering stuff from family?
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Oct 11, 2014 14:45
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legsarerequired posted:I never understood collectibles either. Have you ever pointed out to him that if he spends all his money, he won't have any money left?
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Oct 11, 2014 17:18
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Propaniac posted:Have you ever pointed out to him that if he spends all his money, he won't have any money left? They're an investment.
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Oct 11, 2014 17:31
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The following link is a story about a VP of a company who's now 78 and must work because he didn't save enough for retirement. He literally would have made more money than I'll make in my lifetime and spent it all.quote:In July, after Richey had changed jobs and moved to another Tampa golf course, she persuaded Palome to follow her. He works 20 hours a week over four days, earning US$7.98 (NZ$10.17) an hour plus tips or about US$300 (NZ$382) a week, down slightly from last year. http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/10607455/At-78-still-flipping-burgers-for-10-an-hour Seriously his pension fund provides $600 per month. Devian666 fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 22:55
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