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President Kucinich posted:Real talk; how much fracking waste water should I feed to my concubines? Feed? I...I don't understand.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:31
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shiranaihito posted:Oh please. You know nothing. Shiranaihito, What on earth makes you think I'm just repeating what I've heard? I have been following Stefan Molyneux for the better part of the last six years, from back before his wife was censured by the canadian psyciatric society and forced to no longer be a part of his show. I've been following him back from the time when I was an AnCap, I know what I am talking about. And I'm the one calling Molyneux a Misogynist, because he is one. If a person repeatedly says horrible, demeaning and insulting things about women, and freely associates with a group that says horrible, demeaning and insulting things about women, solely because they are women then that person is a Misogynist. I hope this helps. Just because a man says that he isn't a Misogynist does not negate the fact that the things he says ar Misogynistic. You know what I see in your posts there? I see you throwing a fit without responding to, or possibly even reading those lines that I quoted. I linked the videos they came from, you can clearly hear that it is him saying those things. Do you not think it is a disturbing statement to say: quote:On Marriage: That's their entire job, 'yes' or 'no' Put some false eyelashes on, push your tits up and say yes or no. That's their loving job, yes or no. And that's the foundation of just about everything that goes on in the world, is the woman saying yes or no. Do you think that saying a woman's entire job is to say yes or no? Do you not see how that is a fundamentally hosed UP worldview where a man believes that an engagement ring is a "downpayment on a woman's pussy?" As far as debating him? Why should I? On top of not wanting to get yelled at, Psychoanalyzed or compared to Hitler for an hour at no personal gain, the fact of the matter is that my ideology has already largely won. Most people are 'statists' and are happy that way. The funny thing is that I actually do enjoy debate. If you look at my post history I have challenged other libertarians on this very forum such as Jrodefeld to actual debates, with moderators and the whole nine yards. I'd be happy to do the same thing with Stefan Molyneux, but I'm certainly not going to waste my time calling into his show because I've seen how he 'debates' with people, and it is largely the same way you are, by throwing a temper tantrum and declaring victory. Caros fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 20:35
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EvanSchenck posted:This is only true if the production you're talking about is something that people will do of their own free will. Some activities are incredibly profitable but so unpleasant and/or dangerous that free laborers will avoid them. e.g. sugar/cotton/tobacco cultivation, or sex work. You think there's something that can be produced and sold for money that no one will bother doing, not even if there would be massive profits to be made because he'd be the only one producing the thing? Imagine there are no plumbers in the world because it's a lovely job. There's a massive, screaming demand for plumbers to do plumbing, but no one will do it even though they could charge like $500 or more per hour? Also, "so what?" EvanSchenck posted:Also, even though slaves are theoretically less dedicated to their work, they are unable to refuse demands made of them by their owners, so in practice they can be made dramatically more productive than free laborers. Caribbean sugar plantations averaged 100% turnover in the labor force every 10 years, because they literally worked the slaves to death. This allowed them to achieve productivity that would have been flatly impossible with free labor. This was demonstrated very effectively when slavery was banned within the British Empire, and sugar cultivation in their Caribbean holdings collapsed because the labor force refused to do it, no matter the wages on offer. I have no idea where you're getting that from, I doubt it's true (without state involvement), and I don't want to bother investigating. The bottom line is that people working for their personal gain are just massively more motivated than people who are working to avoid punishment. There are countless people serving as examples of this. You can force someone to work, but you can't force anyone to be creative, for example. You can't force anyone to be good at running a business, at figuring out ways to increase productivity and to decrease costs. You can't force anyone to do what Elon Musk has done.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:36
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shiranaihito posted:Point to a specific "nuh-uh" of mine, tell me why it's a "nuh-uh" and tell me exactly why I'm wrong. Or admit you can't think or debate. You're second post: shiranaihito posted:Disprove all those points; thanks. Someone correctly pointed out that you made unfounded assertions that would need to be backed up with further reason and evidence to make an air-right case that your assertions are in fact accurate and correct. This is known as burden of proof, and it's something that we use on these forums, as does everyone else in real life. You're response was a combination of "nuh-uh" and "no u", implying that you didn't need to prove your points (the nuh-uh) which is as I already explained is wrong, and then telling them to do the opposite (the no u). Now, what I just did hear was made a positive claim, that you make crappy posts, and you rightfully told me to back that up. Which I have, conclusively. Now you can either refute it (you can't), ignore it, accept it, or throw a whiney bitchfit. I have a 50/50 on options 2 and 4, because even though you keep accusing us of being unthinking, you're the only one that refuses to do so.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:36
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Caros posted:Stefan Molyneux A disgusting cretin of a woman hater is a libertarian!? What a loving surprise.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:38
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shiranaihito posted:You think there's something that can be produced and sold for money that no one will bother doing, not even if there would be massive profits to be made because he'd be the only one producing the thing? Elon Musk also gave up all his patent rights, does stuff because it's cool and is actively trying to build infrastructure which only gives him secondary financial benefit from. I'm not sure why you think you have anything in common with him.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:39
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shiranaihito posted:That's not a very good point. As things stand now, anyone with political connections (or enough money to buy them) can pollute as much as they want, and you think the fact that there's a system to bribe away before polluting makes extorting everyone alright, because without it the system would not exist? We know for a fact that regulation that can potentially be bribed produces better outcomes for the environment than a lack of regulation. It's true; there are a bunch of examples that I can point you toward if you don't believe me. Polluting "as much as they want" is not a thing that happens; polluting industries are constantly working toward more and more deregulation, which means that the regulations do have an effect. shiranaihito posted:You think extorting everyone is justified because *there's a chance* that the government would prevent a small company from polluting, even though the same company will be able to pollute once it grows big enough? I guess it's alright for me to take all your money then, because you *might* some day buy a gun and shoot someone! You think that eliminating all regulations and regulatory bodies because *there's a chance* that private businesses could circumvent them, even though we have evidence showing that those regulatory bodies are actually pretty effective? I guess it's alright for me to dump arsenic in your tap water then, because you support a political ideology that would doom all of mankind.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:39
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shiranaihito posted:I have no idea where you're getting that from, I doubt it's true (without state involvement), and I don't want to bother investigating. So what you're saying is that you don't want to think about it. Haha, you hypocritical motherfucker. You're the least self aware person I've seen in a long time.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:40
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shiranaihito posted:
Libertarian.txt
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Oct 11, 2014 20:40
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Caros posted:Shiranaihito, What on earth makes you think I'm just repeating what I've heard? Well, it's your word against mine then? How about producing some evidence? Post some links to his videos where he says something clearly misogynistic. -Originals, btw. Not something where he's intentionally made look bad. Oh, and watch the drat video I linked. It's evidence of him making a shitload of sense, and illustrating how the Western world in particular is biased against men. Seriously, watch it.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:40
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shiranaihito posted:I have no idea where you're getting that from, I doubt it's true (without state involvement), and I don't want to bother investigating. Oh okay then
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Oct 11, 2014 20:41
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shiranaihito posted:Well, it's your word against mine then? How about producing some evidence? Post some links to his videos where he says something clearly misogynistic. -Originals, btw. Not something where he's intentionally made look bad. He did that in the post you quoted. You really won't try and think for yourself, will you? Not when it's easier to let Molyneux think for you.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:42
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President Kucinich posted:A disgusting cretin of a woman hater is a libertarian!? He is actually a liberterian Ubermench of his own little cult following. The funny thing is the women hating only happened within about the last year to two years. My view is that he let it slip into his videos bit by bit, and he has found that there is a profitable market for it. His popularity has just about doubled since his appearance at the 'A voice for men' conference for example, and shockingly his anti-women videos have about doubled as well.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:43
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shiranaihito posted:Oh, and watch the drat video I linked. It's evidence of him making a shitload of sense, and illustrating how the Western world in particular is biased against men. Seriously, watch it.   Being wrong is profitable in a society that will give you support infrastructure anyway.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:44
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shiranaihito posted:Sadly, I'm almost done wasting time on you all. No, drat it, answer my hypotheticals before you go or we might continue on in our sinful statist ways!
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Oct 11, 2014 20:44
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Who What Now posted:So what you're saying is that you don't want to think about it. Haha, you hypocritical motherfucker. You're the least self aware person I've seen in a long time. No, I'm saying I don't want to spend time and effort on trying to figure out what the hell *actually* happened and why exactly, because that's nearly impossible, and most certainly not worth it just to argue against you idiots. You realise that not everything the government says (through the mainstream media) is true? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98 If governments are based on extortion, do you think they want people to see it for what it is, or do you think they might want to control people's views on things? -Do you think they might do that through medias that reach the vast majority of people on the planet every day? Do you think history books might not be entirely accurate? Say, in Japan, about WWII, for example? Now why might that be?
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Oct 11, 2014 20:45
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Shiranaihito, I agree with you with regards to how hard men have it today, what with their property becoming self determining and poo poo.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:46
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shiranaihito posted:Do you think history books might not be entirely accurate? Say, in Japan, about WWII, for example? Now why might that be? The Japanese people I know are pretty guilt-ridden and sorry about how WWII went down, but 
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Oct 11, 2014 20:46
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So I see you're ignoring where I explained your nuh-uh post like you asked, exactly as I predicted.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:46
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Are most history books about the holocaust accurate?? Are most history books about the causes of the US civil war accurate, too??
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Oct 11, 2014 20:47
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shiranaihito posted:You realise that not everything the government says (through the mainstream media) is true? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuC_4mGTs98 For all your emphasis on intellectual rigor, you sure seem eager to strawman everyone in this thread. And not terribly eager to provide arguments.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:48
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Here, I'll even repost the specific parts to which I want you to respond. I'll even number them for you My community gets together and we voluntarily form the "Main Street Committee." We voluntarily pool together some funds and we voluntarily build a road going through the center of our town. We put up a sign at each end saying "committee-members only", non-members have to voluntarily join the committee and pay dues in order to use the road or else they're violating our property rights. The road that we built is awesome, so eventually we get enough membership that we're able to start providing other services, such as police protection, fire coverage, etc. You might not support the use of your funds for fire coverage (you just want to walk/drive on the road), but we say "it's our road, so you either pay dues and get to use the road or you don't get to use the road. Usage of the road without paying dues is a violation of the NAP" 1) If you refuse to become a committee member and pay dues, but you still use the road, then you're violating our property rights. Do we agree? 2) What if we rename the committee "the United States of America". Is it still a violation of our property rights for you to use the road without paying dues? 3) What if we rename the dues and start calling them "taxes"? 4) What if we use your "taxes" and pay for the invasion of a nearby town? Note that you never consented to a war, you just wanted to drive on the road; but you love that road so very much. Of course, you can always leave and go to a different town (just like you could leave this country and go somewhere else), but the road here is so much nicer than the road in Somalia-town, even though it's free to use, and you don't like having to deal with the warlords there, so you'd much rather stay here. What do you do? If you refuse to pay dues (or "taxes") for driving on our road, is it still a violation of the NAP and/or our property rights? Suppose I steal a bunch of money from you. That's a violation of the NAP but I do it anyway. I use that money to buy a car. 5) Is driving the car an ongoing violation of the NAP? 6) Is it immoral for me to continue using the car that I purchased with money that I stole? Instead of the hypothetical above where I steal your money, I stole a bunch of money from someone else and then used that money to buy you a car. 7) Is it immoral for you to use that car that was purchased with money that I stole? 8) In a scenario where someone is loving up the water table, how do you know which business hosed up the drinking water? In an ancap society, you wouldn't be able to trespass on their land, right? What if there are 10 companies dumping poo poo in a river and they all just place the blame on the other 9? Who gets punished? Who does the punishing? Who forces the companies to accept this punishment? 9) And how do you detect who did the damage in a less obvious case, such as dumping things into the water table when the water table might extend over an enormous region with many private companies and citizens?
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Oct 11, 2014 20:49
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OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p None of you will ever call Stefan and debate him, because you all know he'd just totally loving destroy you. Disagree with that? -Prove me the gently caress wrong then. Have fun patting each other on the back for not thinking for yourselves.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:50
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shiranaihito posted:Well, it's your word against mine then? How about producing some evidence? Post some links to his videos where he says something clearly misogynistic. -Originals, btw. Not something where he's intentionally made look bad. No, it is your assertion vs the documented fact of him unapologetically stating misogynistic things Did you not notice the fact that those sourced quotes were underlined? That is what is called a "Hyperlink" and its been used for a little over two decades now on the internet to denote text that is in fact a web link to something else, in this case the quotes that I sourced. If your complaint is that those videos are clips of his podcasts, I apologize. It is easier to link the 2-5 minutes wherein he says something horrible than to link the whole video since Youtube timestamps are always finicky on the forums. If it helps, each video indicates the exact podcast # and time in video from which it is taken. I will however, find the exact videos if it really bothers you that much, so that you can see in context that he is still saying demaning things about women. As far as making him look bad, I have to ask you, is it ever appropriate to say the things that I have quoted him saying? At what point is it appropriate to accuse the entire female half of our species of being the downfall of humanity because they date men who are assholes? Because that is a profoundly insulting thing to say about women and I cannot think of a context in which stating that is appropriate. As far as the 'bias' against men... you're joking right? How many female presidents have we had? How many female senators? Congressmen? Fortune 500 leaders? Why do we have a system in which women make substantially less than their male counterparts? WHEN DID WOMEN GET THE loving RIGHT TO VOTE? You have been brainwashed my friend. Finally, Are you going to actually reply to the substantive post I made specifically for you? Or do you not like having actual debates?
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Oct 11, 2014 20:50
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shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p Enjoy your paycheck getting destroyed by statists.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:51
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shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p  You know who also said poo poo like that? My conservative leaning friend about Rush Limbaugh when we were 12.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:52
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shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p PLEASE, HELP ME BY RESPONDING TO MY POST, I AM TRYING TO HARD TO BECOME A LIBERTARIAN YOU JUST NEED TO ANSWER MY POST AND MAYBE I'LL CONVERT! Teach me how to think for myself by answering some of my thought-provoking questions! e: I won't call you bad names, I promise! Please, Dr. shiranaihito, enlightened one, please provide me with the answers that I seek so that I can understand the truth that is ancap libertarianism QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Oct 11, 2014 |
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Oct 11, 2014 20:52
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shiranaihito posted:A free society would do their best to assassinate the invading country's psychopath leader(s), because that's the single most efficient and effective way of stopping the war. Fun Fact: Britain not only considered but had made detailed plans about how they could assassinate Hitler. They scrapped the plans once they realized that Hitler was so incompetent at warfare that killing him would probably prolong the war because someone more competent would take his place.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:53
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That gnawing feeling in your gut is me eating your lunch. I'm just eating it with both hands, 10-18 percent at a time. Once every two weeks.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:53
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shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p Thanks for the  I suppose. You have helped support the infrastructure of Socialist Awful, and for that I thank you.I will happily call and debate you any time. Stefan Molyneux? Not so much for the reasons I have stated earlier. Frankly I'm not going to pat myself on the back however. This feels like the end of Burn After Reading. What the gently caress did we learn here? I dunno. We learned that you really liked Stefan Molyneux. We learned not to do it again I suppose... whatever the gently caress we did.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:54
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QuarkJets posted:PLEASE, HELP ME BY RESPONDING TO MY POST, I AM TRYING TO HARD TO BECOME A LIBERTARIAN YOU JUST NEED TO ANSWER MY POST AND MAYBE I'LL CONVERT! The sad fact is that he actually got a decent number of well thought out replies. He's just either trolling or can't look past the fact that people have an opinion that differs from his.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:55
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Look at what you did, you dumbfucks, you chased him away! I was this close to getting him to admit that using the Internet is immoral and a violation of the NAP because it's paid for by theft (taxes)!
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Oct 11, 2014 20:57
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Has to be a sockpuppet, combining the worst of the posting styles of Jrod and AA, possibly in an attempt to make Libertarians seem even more retarded.shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p See, this is funny. Libertarians wanting the last word and running away makes me smug as gently caress cause Libertarians are so ineffectual that until the day they die, and long after, the world will be run and continue to run as a network of centralized states with nary a Libertarian paradise in sight.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:57
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shiranaihito posted:I have no idea where you're getting that from, I doubt it's true (without state involvement), and I don't want to bother investigating. Praxeology in a nutshell, goons and goonettes.
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Oct 11, 2014 20:58
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What about Somalia? Seems pretty libertopian to me
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Oct 11, 2014 20:58
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QuarkJets posted:Look at what you did, you dumbfucks, you chased him away! I was this close to getting him to admit that using the Internet is immoral because it's paid for by theft (taxes)! You really weren't. He didn't engage with anyone on a single legitimate point. Frankly I'm really close to calling him a troll. Coming in stating that anyone who believes in taxes is the devil and he doesn't want to talk with them at all, then bitching about tone is loving bizzare. The only reason why I'm not is because of the Molyneux stuff. He feels way too much like a zealot or a cultist. Even moreso than Jrod.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:00
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^^^ gently caress you man, just let me have this, I want so badly for it to be trueshiranaihito posted:The bottom line is that people working for their personal gain are just massively more motivated than people who are working to avoid punishment. There are countless people serving as examples of this. You can force someone to work, but you can't force anyone to be creative, for example. You can't force anyone to be good at running a business, at figuring out ways to increase productivity and to decrease costs. You can't force anyone to do what Elon Musk has done. I mean just look at this awesome post. He's subtly saying that slaves on sugar plantations weren't at peak productivity because they weren't allowed to follow their dreams. Don't you see? Libertarian society will let you become an artist instead of being worked to death in a sugar field! Ignore that the slave trade was the result of an unregulated free market, that totally wouldn't happen this time!
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Oct 11, 2014 21:01
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shiranaihito posted:OK, I'm done here. Wasting any more time on you is pointless. Oh you feel like responding to this post by calling me names? .. As if you hadn't been doing that all the time until now? :p The  over being called names never gets old. Libertarians really do have the thinnest skins. And as for calling his show it's true that no one will. But that's because there's no point in calling the retarded and trying to teach them physics.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:02
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QuarkJets posted:Look at what you did, you dumbfucks, you chased him away! I was this close to getting him to admit that using the Internet is immoral and a violation of the NAP because it's paid for by theft (taxes)! If Shiranaihito was here, he would defend my right to be a belligerent dumbfuck.
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Oct 11, 2014 21:04
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Seriously though, what is it with Libertarians and always scuttling away after only a few hours in this thread?
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Oct 11, 2014 21:09
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