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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Probably. 'Martial' enemies generally don't present a threat against a limited resource other than HP. However, most 'martial' enemies have special abilities and leaders and such that make unqualified statements impossible. Every encounter expends HP and abilities. If two encounters with "equal" difficulty expend different amounts of resources or play differently for players who are short on them, then those two encounters are not "equal". Also what special resources do save/suck encounters drain? Just spell slots, like everything else, right?
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Oct 12, 2014 11:34
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djw175 posted:Wait am I reading this right? You're supposed to be able to fight 6-8 adult dragons a day at level 13? Are dragons chumps or is the CR "math" breaking again? A bit of both. 5e encounter design tries to take action economy into account by adding a multiplier for number of monsters. Solo monsters have no multiplier. Packs of monsters like the 7 owlbears are at a x2.5 multiplier, meaning they are rated as a 12250xp encounter even though they only reward 4900xp. I would be more scared of 7 owlbears. That is 413HP worth of bear to dig through. The dragon only has 200HP. The dragon has a few tricks like breath weapon (54 damage cone) but the bears will put out more damage by far. Or to put it visually: Owlbears attack! 7 claws and 7 bites!: 7#1d20+7 26 12 20 13 24 21 25 7#1d20+7 26 9 21.... Each bite does 10, each claw does 14. Eyeballing the results, let's I just hit with 5 bites and 6 claws. Take 134 damage. An adult white dragon attacks! bite/claw/claw routine: 3#1d20+11 27 20 17. Bite hits for 21. Claws hit for 26. Take 47 damage. Now for the really hosed up part. You just survived owlbear hell. What is your reward? 4900XP. You aren't rewarded the difficulty multiplier that the DM had to use to prepare the encounter. The more monsters you fight, the less XP you get compared with the difficulty you experienced. ritorix fucked around with this message at 11:44 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 11:38
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quote:IDs have a save or death that doesnt become easier to resist as you get higher. It was shown in this thread that the fighter at best with a 10 int (which they never are going to waste points on to protect against a single enemy) has a 50/50 chance to be killed outright. Initiative is still a 1d20+Dex. That is an extremely swingy value. If the ID beat the wizard, they immediately move forward and make 3 chances to instant kill whoever is in front. The success or failure of the fight hinges on initiative, which is inherently insanely swingy. How exactly are they a chump? They are terrifying glass cannons you desperately need to kill first. The Mind Flayer also dumps a cone attack with a 1 minute stun with a whopping DC 15 save. If he beats the intellect devourers they get to try Body Thief on the target instead which means not only is a it a dead character. Its a permanently dead character who is now attacking you. That is a terrifying combination. Also unless your fighting in a significantly spacious cavern the Umber Hulk is going to be within 30 feet of almost everyone pretty easily and that means every single player is rolling DC 15 charisma saves to be able to even function. It is unlikely combat will start at close range. Any underdark party will have more darkvision than that. This sharply limits the ability of the attacking Illithids to gently caress poo poo up. If it is an ambush scenario DMs need to adjust the expected difficult of the encounter accordingly. An ambush leading off with a bunch of tough saves is a serious gently caress the players situation and needs to be handled with care. Yes, a lot depends on initiative, it's very important in 5e. quote:Also what special resources do save/suck encounters drain? Just spell slots, like everything else, right? quote:So you're choosing "It's harder than other medium encounters", right? How does that mean the rules are fine? In terms of theorycrafting i think the large group multipliers could stand to curve faster but I haven't fought these out yet so i cant back that up with xp. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 11:53 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 11:46
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:IDs do not get '3 chances to insta kill' by attacking, though they are dangerous. Flat initiative roll at 30 feet isn't an "ambush scenario", holy poo poo. And by which resources, I meant which resources will be available to a fighter before the wizard's first turn in initiative order.
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Oct 12, 2014 11:52
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:IDs do not get '3 chances to insta kill' by attacking Please explain to me how this is true in the example we're using. TheDeadlyShoe posted:It is unlikely combat will start at close range. Any underdark party will have more darkvision than that. This sharply limits the ability of the attacking Illithids to gently caress poo poo up. If it is an ambush scenario DMs need to adjust the expected difficult of the encounter accordingly. An ambush leading off with a bunch of tough saves is a serious gently caress the players situation and needs to be handled with care. Holy loving poo poo, "roll initiative at 30-40' distance" isn't how most dungeon fights start and is instead a much more deadly ambush scenario? I sure am glad you're here to tell me how bad I've been loving my players for the last 26 years.
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Oct 12, 2014 11:56
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quote:Flat initiative roll at 30 feet isn't an "ambush scenario", holy poo poo. quote:And by which resources, I meant which resources will be available to a fighter before the wizard's first turn in initiative order. Note there's some helpful pregame spells if the party figures out whats going on, as well. Death Ward, stuff like that. quote:Holy loving poo poo, "roll initiative at 30-40' distance" isn't how most dungeon fights start and is instead a much more deadly ambush scenario? I sure am glad you're here to tell me how bad I've been loving my players for the last 26 years. I thought we were in the underdark?
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Oct 12, 2014 11:58
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:They can see farther than that, it's not complicated. They're inside. It's not complicated. TheDeadlyShoe posted:Ambush scenario is concealment and surprise rolls. We're not talking about concealment and suprise, just about a standard "you enter the room and there are..." scenario.
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Oct 12, 2014 11:59
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Noone said that, chum! Or if they did, I missed it. I read 'underdark'. Pretty much everything I've done there has been pretty open, even when structures were involved. Wee spider climb.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:00
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Noone said that, chum! Where do most Dungeons & Dragons fights take place, idiot?
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Oct 12, 2014 12:01
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Not in the underdark against illithids only, buddy!
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Oct 12, 2014 12:02
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Ambush scenario is concealment and surprise rolls. Nobody is saying that the ID's have to be concealed, or that there are surprise rolls, you dufus, we're saying that if the ID starts within one move of the party then there is a 50/50 they beat the wizard to initiative and the fighter dies. Even if you build the party specifically to counter this scenario, meaning that the resources being drained are not "limited save-fixing resources" but just, you know, their spell slots, do you really think a party can survive 6 of these? What about 6 of the owlbears? Six dragons? EDIT: And because you are a pedantic motherfucker, by building the party specifically to counter this scenario, I do not mean 14-int fighters, I just mean spell slots oriented entirely around this encounter, etc.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:03
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Are you seriously telling me that most D&D fights start beyond the range at which the melee guys can close for combat in the first round? Is that what you're telling me? To be perfectly clear here, I'm not talking about concealment, ambush, or anything else like that. I'm talking about a straight up fight starting, no surprise, no hiding. e: Have I missed something where mindflayers like big open spaces and stay in the middle of them? Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 12:08 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:05
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ritorix posted:Other medium-difficulty level 13 encounters: What this makes clear to me is that 5e encounter math is more hosed than 3.0 encounter math was. How the gently caress is that possible? Like not even today, in 2003 they realized they could do better. No one is going to DM that random crazy poo poo ever.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:09
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:I'm starting to get the feeling the entire criticism of 5e in this thread revolves around intellect devourers and not much else. I need you to stop for a moment. And just try and imagine what other people are trying to say. When they use an example. They are using it as an example of what they are talking about. Thats why they are bringing it up. Please try and comprehend that. There is an infinitely long list of issues people have brought up about this game. Please try and accept that maybe, just maybe people have gone out and played this game and found these things to be a problem. My level two party fought a centaur the other day. He one shot the party bard. Not just dead but dead so hard they were permanently dead. The thing just charges for 30 damage. Admittedly the player had 13 out of her 17 hp but missing only 4 hp seems like a huge deal between being alive or dead. This was supposed to be a medium encounter. Why is this thing considered the equal of an Ogre. Its extremely maneuverable, harder to hit than the ogre, still solid hp, hits for more than double the ogres damage. My party fought some undead, zombies and ghouls. Ghouls paralyzed a couple of the players and I had to fudge the entire fight to prevent a TPK. This seems nuts. I through a pack of Skeletons at the players, it read as a deadly encounter. The players wiped the floor with them without taking a scratch. Why did multiple medium encounters kill my party and a deadly encounter barely register as a threat? TheDeadlyShoe posted:No, because parties do have resources to resist save or sucks. They are just limited. How does a fighter resist save or suck exactly? TheDeadlyShoe posted:IDs do not get '3 chances to insta kill' by attacking, though they are dangerous. Errr... Each Intellect devourer gets a turn. There are 3 in the fight. Im not sure how this is debateable. What is close range. The Mind flayer party has intellect devourers to see anything within 300 feet with Int 3+. The Umber Hulk Barrows. I could comfortably see this fight starting at 50 feet or so. What game and GM is starting fights further than that in the underdark. Hell the Mind Flayer can still use Dominate Monster from 60 feet away. How does this prevent it from wrecking poo poo? Initiative literally can determine if the devourer + Mind Flayer murder team kills a player or not. This is also something you cant do much about but hope you dont gently caress your 1d20 roll. The large group multipliers are a mess but not even the basis of the problem. The problem is that there is no formula or logical flow for how dangerous anything is. It is entirely built on how dangerous people feel it should be. This results in constantly swinging encounters and requires the GM to plan and map every single monster and every single ability against the players to ensure things dont fall apart.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:11
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Yes, because a level 13 fighter is utterly helpless against critters with 21 hp.quote:Even if you build the party specifically to counter this scenario, meaning that the resources being drained are not "limited save-fixing resources" but just, you know, their spell slots, do you really think a party can survive 6 of these? What about 6 of the owlbears? Six dragons? But really. 'Here's these situations that never come up in actual gameplay that shows why 5E is DEFINITIVELY BROKEN.' You guys are funny. i don't know anything about white dragons. Only a total jerk would throw 6 legendaries against their players though. I dunno about the Owlbears. they have a -4 int save which is hilarious. I don't know how dangerous they'd be. In a dungeon their largeness and numbers would probably work against them. The players would probably chop up at least a couple a turn plus any controls they get off. Big and strong but stupid bastards so they could probably be managed. quote:Errr... Each Intellect devourer gets a turn. There are 3 in the fight. Im not sure how this is debateable. Does dominate monster work on players? Anyways, even at 50 feet there's going to be no player kills, IDs have a 5 foot range on body thief. TheDeadlyShoe fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:12
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yes, because a level 13 fighter is utterly helpless against critters with 21 hp. Yes, this particular one, if it moves first*, can kill a level 13 fighter before he can respond. That's the point. TheDeadlyShoe posted:i don't know anything about white dragons. Only a total jerk would throw 6 legendaries against their players though. That, you dense motherfucker, is what the rules say you can handle. They are not good rules. That's all I'm trying to say. I'm not arguing that "a good DM would realise..." or "you'd be a jerk to do that" are wrong, I agree with those statements. The rules allow these things to occur and are therefore bad rules. I would need to ignore those bad rules in order to be a good DM and not a jerk, I agree. That doesn't magically transform the rules into good rules. *Not "if it ambushes" or "if it has surprise", it only has to win initiative. Elector_Nerdlingen fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:17
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:Yes, because a level 13 fighter is utterly helpless against critters with 21 hp. Thats....what we've been saying. 90% of fighters are going to be running 8 int (or their lowest rolled stat) since its not used very much for them. That means they have a -1 to the roll against DC 12. Meaning essentially they need to roll a 13 or high against the ID Trio (reminder these are the weakest parts of the fight). Every fail means he takes 3d6 INT damage so the subsequent saves are going to be even harder. Average of 3d6 is 11 just to make sure we are on the same page. So assuming it doesnt just take him out of the fight, its going to make the next save much harder. There are going to be 3 saves here. Also if he is unlucky enough to fail and drop from the first one (which statistically hes likely to fail). The others can eat his brain and permanently kill his character. You need to cast wish to bring him back. So again. This is a flip of the coin fight that is going to kill the player if the ID win initiative. How does he counter this exactly? kingcom fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:17
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:i don't know anything about white dragons. Only a total jerk would throw 6 legendaries against their players though. Why, do you think the dragon might be harder than the average encounter? I get that nobody would ever throw a dungeon's worth of identical encounters at their players, but a dungeon's worth of encounters in which mindflayers, intellect devourers, and umber hulks make up a large number of the monsters seems, pretty, normal? Like if you're having players go into a mindflayer stronghold, it seems like you should see more than a few of them. But in 5E you can't because your players will die, and that's apparently an okay thing.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:18
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:But bog standard darkvision has 60 foot range and that is the obvious distance to start the fight at even if none of the players have boosted it. _unless- there's an ambush scenario which is why i brought that up. By this logic, the default range for fights outside the underdark is hundreds of feet.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:26
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:It's unquestionable that - barring mind blank, which i dont have the book for with me - the illithids are going to do their thing when they detect the tasty brains. But bog standard darkvision has 60 foot range and that is the obvious distance to start the fight at even if none of the players have boosted it. _unless- there's an ambush scenario which is why i brought that up. At 50 feet the ID can move 40 feet and then use their 10 feet range Devour Intellect to completely incapacitate their target. So they might not kill, they just compeletely take out a player. Much better. Dominate monsters does work on players. Its same princple as 3.5 Dominate Monster. Same as Dominate Person but a larger variety of applicable targets. The Umber Hulk runs 30 and everyone is then in range of its 30feet aoe so if that wins initiative its even worse than the IDs going first. Really anything beating you in initiative is going to cripple the party. Mind Blank is a Level 8 spell so its a bit out of the players range at level 13. kingcom fucked around with this message at 12:30 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:27
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30.5 Days posted:Why, do you think the dragon might be harder than the average encounter? Of course not, it's the same difficulty as any other medium encounter, it's just that 6 of the same same-difficulty encounters in a row is too hard. 30.5 Days posted:By this logic, the default range for fights outside the underdark is hundreds of feet. Really it's the horizon, since the outdoors by definition doesn't have buildings in it.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:28
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goldjas posted:Back to the lovely DND 3.x monster design from the pretty awesome 4E one monster wise. Player wise class balance is all over the place with Caster Supremacy rearing it's ugly head like it's 3rd edition all over again. Caster supremacy has been toned down significantly relatively to 3.X, since casters get way less spells compared to before, and can only sustain one spell at a time. I think class balance is more like BECMI/1e. However, unlike BECMI/1e, saving throws are always kind of terrible, and assume that full spell effects are going to happen most of the time, which leaves a handful of spells massively OP (Contagion, looking at you). I think, however, that Wizard DPR is balanced around this, though, and most save or sucks let you save every round.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:29
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ascendance posted:Monsters are still much, much simpler compared to 3.X. Yeah thats true. Its why most people have said this game is essentially a better version of 3.5. The only downside is you lose all the crazy non-standard builds.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:30
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AlphaDog posted:Really it's the horizon, since the outdoors by definition doesn't have buildings in it. So depending on setting, most fights should start at least 3 miles away. Up to 30 miles if you're looking down from an elevated position.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:31
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kingcom posted:Yeah thats true. Its why most people have said this game is essentially a better version of 3.5. The only downside is you lose all the crazy non-standard builds. As a former 3E DM: "downside"
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Oct 12, 2014 12:32
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30.5 Days posted:As a former 3E DM: "downside" My point being thats the strong part of 3.5. Its about making insane nonsensical plans to make peasant railguns and folding the universe in on itself because the rules were so nuts. I ran 2 pathfinder games recently and simply building a single fight that wasn't all over the place for level 18 players was too exhausting and time consuming that I never want to do it again. Thats before you even get to the point where you need to reconcile the narrative for the player who can just open his own pocket dimension at will next to the guy who can swing his sword.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:34
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30.5 Days posted:So depending on setting, most fights should start at least 3 miles away. Up to 30 miles if you're looking down from an elevated position. Unless you're on a flat world, I guess? Then you could just see anyone who wasn't ambushing you.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:35
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You see, 5e is just fine because this CR2 monster won't always be able to kill a level 13 Fighter and anyway there are spells to deal with it
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Oct 12, 2014 12:36
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AlphaDog posted:Unless you're on a flat world, I guess? Then you could just see anyone who wasn't ambushing you. This is why the peasant railgun exists. They dont make attacks they just pass a message along an infinite line of peasants to alert adventurers of where and when a fight starts.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:37
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kingcom posted:My point being thats the strong part of 3.5. Its about making insane nonsensical plans to make peasant railguns and folding the universe in on itself because the rules were so nuts. Oh, I know. I mentioned this earlier, but all the fond memories of 3 that I've heard generally consist of "oh man my witty friend played a sorceror and did ridiculous things while we watched and it was hilarious". It's I think a strong component of why people will die on the hill of "nothing is wrong with my D&D": very few people are willing to take advantage of broken rules in a roleplaying game, except to the extent that they make people laugh, so any system that's actually properly balanced will always be missing "something special I can't quite put my finger on" to people who played under that regime. That doesn't make it good though, it just means that, like bad movies, there's value in enjoying it anyway if that's what you set out to do.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:37
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30.5 Days posted:Oh, I know. I mentioned this earlier, but all the fond memories of 3 that I've heard generally consist of "oh man my witty friend played a sorceror and did ridiculous things while we watched and it was hilarious". It's I think a strong component of why people will die on the hill of "nothing is wrong with my D&D": very few people are willing to take advantage of broken rules in a roleplaying game, except to the extent that they make people laugh, so any system that's actually properly balanced will always be missing "something special I can't quite put my finger on" to people who played under that regime. That doesn't make it good though, it just means that, like bad movies, there's value in enjoying it anyway if that's what you set out to do. I feel everyone who comes into this thread and says BUT NO IT WORKED FINE WHEN WE DID IT without reading any of what the context of the discussion needs to understand: It is okay to enjoy this game. I ran a game of it and played in lots of games of it and had fun! Its okay! Calling the rules of the game bad does not prevent you from enjoying it! In fact being able to identify when and how the system completely collapses makes the game more fun because you can try and fix it and improve everyones experience. Ignoring problems with the game causes you to make the game worse as it hurts people who want to enjoy it but are being busted by the rules.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:40
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I'm going to be honest; most of the reason I read this thread to watch people make bizarre contortions of information in order to continue arguing while the rest of you repeatedly create examples of funny ways in which 5e is broken. Does that make me a bad person?
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Oct 12, 2014 12:41
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That's what brought me in here but then I touched the poop and now look at me. It will happen to you!
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Oct 12, 2014 12:42
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Regarding IDs... Having one very obviously broken monster so far is not too bad. Let me know if you spot any other terribad ones. I think people may have a slightly rosy view of monster balance under 4e. It was clear that some monsters much deadlier than others. brutes, in particular, were kind of broken in their early iteration, since they couldn't hit anything. Edit: soldiers were also just better than other categories. In addition, somewhere along the line, they felt they had to ramp up monster damage across the board. Yes, the monster box set was a great product (still have it... Planning to use the tokens), but the original MM monsters got overshadowed pretty fast. And its kind of a sacred cow that old school means lovely monsters that drain levels or reduce ability scores. And this is what the whole thing is about. 4e shot and killed a bunch of sacred cows, and 5e decided the sacred cows are all an intrinsic part of brand identity and brought them back to life. Blame people like Zak and Tarnowski. By the way, if there are any Uruguayans around here, please PM me. I may have a proposal for you that involves randomly kicking a person in the groin. ascendance fucked around with this message at 12:50 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:43
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Allstone posted:I'm going to be honest; most of the reason I read this thread to watch people make bizarre contortions of information in order to continue arguing while the rest of you repeatedly create examples of funny ways in which 5e is broken. Does that make me a bad person? It's 90% of the reason I read this thread. If you followed it you've probably gotten some of the coolest campaign ideas. Like the Intellect Devourer Big Bad who is helping the players get lots of xp so he can eat their brains. Or how when the fighter gets killed by the ID the player then gets to play as the ID who ate the fighter with new stats and memories about how he is friends with the party because he absorbed the fighters memories. Or the Necromancer Barons who provide armies and protection in return for the dead family members bones so the Necromancer can use them to go slay dragons and kick Tiamat's butt or the great Necromancer & Druid alliance that made the undead hordes unstoppable. The list goes on. Its gold. ascendance posted:Regarding IDs... Having one very obviously broken monster so far is not too bad. Let me know if you spot any other terribad ones. Centaurs drop 30 damage as a CR2 creature is pretty nuts and given their insane speed they can do charge and back up infinitely. Umber Hulks are pretty ridiculous given the huge 30 foot radius ascendance posted:I think people may have a slightly rosy view of monster balance under 4e. It was clear that some monsters much deadlier than others. brutes, in particular, were kind of broken in their early iteration, since they couldn't hit anything. In addition, somewhere along the line, they felt they had to ramp up monster damage across the board. Yes, the monster box set was a great product (still have it... Planning to use the tokens), but the original MM monsters got overshadowed pretty fast. Pre-Monster Manual 3 math, 4e had lots of problems. Nowhere near as many as 5e but encounters were definitely FAAAAAR from perfect. Thats what made the Monster Manual 3 stuff so awesome was that it standardized stuff so brutes were brought in line, soldiers stopped being screwy and healing surges means the players were often in control of when they were pushing themselves too far with the associated risk/rewards of that. Your sacred cow point is completely spot on. Other games ditch these things for obvious reasons. 5e brought them back and its just bring back all the big problems they caused. Bounded Accuracy being introduced along side this stuff just reinforces the issues as previously there was a way to mitigate these problems through magic items (leading to the christmas tree effect of characters) things that put a character at giant risk at Level 2 are now equally as dangerous to the character as they get higher level. This means they danger is the same but the XP value of the threat is never appropriate. kingcom fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 12:44
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quote:Yes, this particular one, if it moves first*, can kill a level 13 fighter before he can respond. That's the point. quote:I need you to stop for a moment. And just try and imagine what other people are trying to say. When they use an example. They are using it as an example of what they are talking about. Thats why they are bringing it up. Please try and comprehend that. There is an infinitely long list of issues people have brought up about this game. Please try and accept that maybe, just maybe people have gone out and played this game and found these things to be a problem. My level two party fought a centaur the other day. He one shot the party bard. Not just dead but dead so hard they were permanently dead. The thing just charges for 30 damage. Admittedly the player had 13 out of her 17 hp but missing only 4 hp seems like a huge deal between being alive or dead. This was supposed to be a medium encounter. Why is this thing considered the equal of an Ogre. Its extremely maneuverable, harder to hit than the ogre, still solid hp, hits for more than double the ogres damage. I'm comparing to the ogre. I would agree the centaur is stronger overall, but the Ogre has significantly more HP which probably translate into one more round to act in any given fight. *shrug* At best, it's a minor imbalance. IDs are all anyone seems to bring up when challenged - not just here but in other forums - and it all revolves around their unique mechanics. IMO they aren't intended, mechanically, to be spammed. I don't think they're even intended to be used in groups. Now, if people think the ID is bullshit, fine. IDs cannot be an example because they do not speak to the general creature mechanics in 5e. Illithids suck brains its kind of their special thing. quote:How does a fighter resist save or suck exactly?  quote:Are you seriously telling me that most D&D fights start beyond the range at which the melee guys can close for combat in the first round? Is that what you're telling me? quote:I get that nobody would ever throw a dungeon's worth of identical encounters at their players, but a dungeon's worth of encounters in which mindflayers, intellect devourers, and umber hulks make up a large number of the monsters seems, pretty, normal? Like if you're having players go into a mindflayer stronghold, it seems like you should see more than a few of them. But in 5E you can't because your players will die, and that's apparently an okay thing.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:46
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:You know, that's fair. But if we're going to talk players in an illithid stronghold they'd have to be complete idiots to not be prepared with psychic defenses of several natures. Otherwise they deserve having their brains sucked out. Yeah what kind of scrublords set out on a quest without checking the wiki and shopping for the right magical items first???
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Oct 12, 2014 12:50
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Really Pants posted:Yeah what kind of scrublords set out on a quest without checking the wiki and shopping for the right magical items first??? Remember, Magical items are totally optional and not needed at all.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:51
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Really Pants posted:Yeah what kind of scrublords set out on a quest without checking the wiki and shopping for the right magical items first??? Still annoyed about the Gamma Ray Blaster I missed because Toaster Repair is poo poo.
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Oct 12, 2014 12:52
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TheDeadlyShoe posted:With indomitable? Indomitable reduces the odds of instant ID death from 38% to 19% for a single ID attack per day. quote:You know, that's fair. But if we're going to talk players in an illithid stronghold they'd have to be complete idiots to not be prepared with psychic defenses of several natures. Otherwise they deserve having their brains sucked out. All I've got to say to this is "lol".
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Oct 12, 2014 12:54
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