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I like how they give a whole detailed breakdown of the type of Christianity in Germany and the US, then they get to Australia and just paint the whole thing Protestant (even though Catholics have outnumbered Protestants in most areas (rural belts being the exception) for a few decades now. And if they're going to paint a section of NY Jewish, they could probably paint a few sections of Sydney Muslim. Or painted Bali Hindu, instead of Sunni along with the rest of Indonesia. A Lazy Map.
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Oct 12, 2014 14:22
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I'm also confused by the map's use of brown and grey. What are they supposed to mean - no data, animism, whatever else? Are my eyes deceiving me or is the inner Congo painted in the same shade of brown as most of SE Asia, parts of the Brazilian jungle and almost all of Madagascar?
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Oct 12, 2014 14:29
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In true map tradition, the further away from Europe it gets, the less detailed and accurate it gets and the more "eh this stuff all looks pretty much the same" goes.
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Oct 12, 2014 14:33
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One interesting thing about this is that Hausa-Fulani are now considered a single group, but even tho the Fulani population is really tiny compared to the Hausa (who are the biggest ethnic group in Nigeria), almost the entire elite in northern Nigeria are Fulani: from the traditional emirs and sultans to businessmen, politicians, etc. The richest black person in the world is a Fulani. You can even tell them apart, as Fulani people tend to have lighter skin than the others and they look more like east-africans/people from the Sahel. This goes back to pre-colonial times, when the Fulani arrived in the area a few hundred years ago in a jihad to spread Islam from sea to sea and established the Fulani empire, in which they were obviously the elite. Then the english came and conquered the place, and they struck a deal with the local rulers that was something along the terms "we accept british rule and won't cause trouble, and in turn you don't bring your Christianity and western education here and you let us do our own thing". That way, the rigid social structures that allowed Fulani domination were preserved to this day. Oh and there's an interesting effect of the traditional society in the north: even though most Nigerian rulers after independence (including iirc all military rulers that took power through coups) have been northerners, the general population in the north is way poorer than in the south; on the other hand the northern elite is way richer than the southern elite. quote:The way Sharia law functions in Nigeria is different from other places, in that people can choose between Sharia Courts and secular Federal Courts and if you don't like the verdict you get in one, you can go to the other. Most times the choice is a no-brainer, as for example an offence can get you either 100 lashes or 5 years in a federal prison (and Nigerian prisons are not the nicest places to hang around in). OTOH if the Sharia court hands out (heh) verdicts like hand cutting or stoning, you go get your federal prison time, and as far as I know no Sharia death sentence has been actually carried out in Nigeria. There's also the issue that in cases involving inheritance, divorce, land disputes, etc Sharia Court is way cheaper than getting a lawyer and going to Federal Court, so in those cases most poor people prefer the former
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Oct 12, 2014 14:37
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SeekOtherCandidate posted:And if they're going to paint a section of NY Jewish, they could probably paint a few sections of Sydney Muslim. These sorts of complaints are irritating since you can just get ever more specific about whats not on the map to the point of absurdity, wheres the Muslims in Paris? Where are the Christians in Cairo? Where are the Bahá'í in Tehran? Where are the Jews in Melbourne? Where are the Buddhists in San Antonio? Where are the Jedi in Edinburgh? ...etc. Cities are always a kaleidoscope of people and religions and its really difficult to show that on a map that's trying to display the whole world, it might have been better off to just not show that Jews are in New York at all.
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Oct 12, 2014 14:59
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Disco Infiva posted:OK, found some site with a really sweet collection of maps. I've never heard of anyone tipping in Finland ever. Not even "keep the change". If you're doing "keep the change" you're probably either incredibly drunk or a show-off douchebag. Or a tourist. Caveat: I haven't been to a fancy restaurant and paid for it in a long time. Edit: Oh, it might happen in a taxi, since they - for obvious reasons - don't carry a lot of money. Although everyone pays with plastic surely. Sulphagnist fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 15:04
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Krokerik posted:re: forcing a language on your population. That's pretty average in the 19th century, honestly. Not that the language policy in Finland is remotely logical these days.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:07
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I like that they say China is "Confucian" and have a Taoist symbol for it.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:16
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Religion maps are always a mess when it comes to Eastasia. Like yeah you can argue Confucianism is a religion but that doesn't mean that most if not all of that area isn't also Buddhist, and if Vietnam and Korea count as Confucian I would think Japan would too.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:32
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SeekOtherCandidate posted:I like how they give a whole detailed breakdown of the type of Christianity in Germany and the US, then they get to Australia and just paint the whole thing Protestant (even though Catholics have outnumbered Protestants in most areas (rural belts being the exception) for a few decades now. And if they're going to paint a section of NY Jewish, they could probably paint a few sections of Sydney Muslim. Or painted Bali Hindu, instead of Sunni along with the rest of Indonesia. A Lazy Map. It's just completely US-centric. The largest Christian church in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Estonia is Lutheran (and that's pretty freely available information) but they just get splashed with the Protestant brush. If we're going to split all the Protestant branches the UK should be split into Anglican and Presbyterian as well. And the Netherlands is majority Catholic. Protestant literally just means "protest" so if you're a Christian but not a Catholic you are, by the simple definition, a Protestant. This would have been an interesting map if the same effort that was put into the US was put into everywhere. Judaism in New York is a stupid one and it looks like the mapmaker has brought Jewish ethnicity in when this is a map about religion. It is estimated that about 15-20% of people in NYC have some sort of Jewish heritage but only about 3% identify as Jewish by religion. They're easily outstripped by Protestants and completely outnumbered by Catholics. And to top it all of Confucian is only regarded as a religion in the west because we can't think of a word to describe what it really is. The closest we've got is "a philosophy" but even that doesn't cover it. And if the majority of people in Vietnam identify it as their "main religion" then I'm the Pope.
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Oct 12, 2014 15:42
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I maintain that the biggest religion in the Sinosphere is "I do these rituals at Weddings, wakes, holidays, and funerals because everyone from my parents to my distant ancestors have been doing them for the past 5000 years and the rest of the time I don't even think about it".
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Oct 12, 2014 15:49
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duckmaster posted:Protestant literally just means "protest" so if you're a Christian but not a Catholic you are, by the simple definition, a Protestant. Everyone forgets about the Orthodox. 
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Oct 12, 2014 15:49
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3peat posted:One interesting thing about this is that Hausa-Fulani are now considered a single group, but even tho the Fulani population is really tiny compared to the Hausa (who are the biggest ethnic group in Nigeria), almost the entire elite in northern Nigeria are Fulani: from the traditional emirs and sultans to businessmen, politicians, etc. The richest black person in the world is a Fulani. You can even tell them apart, as Fulani people tend to have lighter skin than the others and they look more like east-africans/people from the Sahel. Thet's a really nice writeup. I'm ashamed to admit that everything I know about that region came from video games 
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Oct 12, 2014 16:01
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duckmaster posted:Protestant literally just means "protest" so if you're a Christian but not a Catholic you are, by the simple definition, a Protestant. Protestant is a little more specific than "not Catholic" as neither the Orthodox nor the Monophysite churches are Protestant. A better definition would be Christian churches founded after (and the dogma of which is informed by the principles of) the Reformation.
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Oct 12, 2014 16:04
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duckmaster posted:Protestant literally just means "protest" so if you're a Christian but not a Catholic you are, by the simple definition, a Protestant. I think some people might disagree with you about this one.
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Oct 12, 2014 16:05
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duckmaster posted:It's just completely US-centric. The largest Christian church in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Estonia is Lutheran (and that's pretty freely available information) but they just get splashed with the Protestant brush. If we're going to split all the Protestant branches the UK should be split into Anglican and Presbyterian as well. And the Netherlands is majority Catholic. Protestant literally just means "protest" so if you're a Christian but not a Catholic you are, by the simple definition, a Protestant. This would have been an interesting map if the same effort that was put into the US was put into everywhere. Some parts of Germany might be majority Lutheran too, though Lutheranism was historically stronger in the regions of Germany which has suffered the most from German misadventures, and of course Namibia is majority Lutheran too. ComradeCosmobot posted:Protestant is a little more specific than "not Catholic" as neither the Orthodox nor the Monophysite churches are Protestant. A better definition would be Christian churches founded after (and the dogma of which is informed by the principles of) the Reformation. A Buttery Pastry fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 16:36
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Finland has a Lutheran state church, the kind you are in automatically if your parents are members but can opt out later. 75% of the population are members. They even have their own tax. The majority of church members go for weddings and funerals but not much else so the statistic is kind of misleading.
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Oct 12, 2014 17:23
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doverhog posted:Finland has a Lutheran state church, the kind you are in automatically if your parents are members but can opt out later. 75% of the population are members. They even have their own tax. The majority of church members go for weddings and funerals but not much else so the statistic is kind of misleading.
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Oct 12, 2014 17:43
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Antti posted:I've never heard of anyone tipping in Finland ever. Not even "keep the change". If you're doing "keep the change" you're probably either incredibly drunk or a show-off douchebag. Or a tourist. You mean if in a restaurant you have to pay 9.60 Euro, you never give a 10 bill and be done with it? It's not expected but it's a nice gesture. Also I hate doing money math.
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Oct 12, 2014 17:54
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I don't think I've ever seen a completely convincing -- or even 'good enough' -- map of world religions. I think partly because religion is in and of itself a fairly ambiguous and historically fraught concept (not to mention relatively recent in its current understanding). There's a 19th-century-holdover tendency to assume that 'world religions' are all basically mad libs variants of western Christianity, which can hold up fairly well in some areas but pretty much breaks down as an analytical method when you get to something like China. e: Reminds me of an anecdote I was told about the first Parliament of the World Religions in (I think) the early 1900s. Apparently they got some person to represent each world religion and asked them to fill in a form with things like 'what do you think God is' etc., the guy who was meant to represent Confucianism basically said 'none of this has anything to do with us, here's an essay I wrote instead' and got ignored for it.
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Oct 12, 2014 18:01
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Kurtofan posted:You mean if in a restaurant you have to pay 9.60 Euro, you never give a 10 bill and be done with it? It's not expected but it's a nice gesture. Also I hate doing money math. 
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Oct 12, 2014 18:05
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Zohar posted:I don't think I've ever seen a completely convincing -- or even 'good enough' -- map of world religions. I think partly because religion is in and of itself a fairly ambiguous and historically fraught concept (not to mention relatively recent in its current understanding). There's a 19th-century-holdover tendency to assume that 'world religions' are all basically mad libs variants of western Christianity, which can hold up fairly well in some areas but pretty much breaks down as an analytical method when you get to something like China. kalstrams posted:Yes, same as in most European countries I have dined out in. "Nice gesture" can even get "this is against our policies" response sometimes. All that and prevalence of card transactions over cash. Like, right now I live in country where 80% of purchases are being made by cards.
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Oct 12, 2014 18:19
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Lots of other issues have been brought up already with this map so I'll just pile on to say that Oman isn't Sunni, it's Ibadi. The Ibadis always get ignored though.
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Oct 12, 2014 18:22
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kalstrams posted:Yes, same as in most European countries I have dined out in. "Nice gesture" can even get "this is against our policies" response sometimes. All that and prevalence of card transactions over cash. Like, right now I live in country where 80% of purchases are being made by cards. A Buttery Pastry posted:. Scandinavians living in the far future 
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Oct 12, 2014 18:23
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Kurtofan posted:Scandinavians living in the far future
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Oct 12, 2014 18:43
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Our cold disposition toward our fellow human beings drives us toward any technology which will further isolate us from them. You guys don't even live in Scandinavia! You lost Skane centuries ago! Torrannor fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 18:48
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Torrannor posted:You guys don't even live in Scandinavia! You lost Skane centuries ago! That's a temporary situation  Anyway it's mostly a reference to a shared history/culture.
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Oct 12, 2014 18:54
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Kurtofan posted:Scandinavians living in the far future It's just because beer costs a billion € there so they presumably stay indoors at all times. Try making your way to the card terminal in a really crowded bar on a Friday night. You're lucky if you're able to make it to the counter to pay with whatever you can find in your pockets.
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Oct 12, 2014 19:00
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Our cold disposition toward our fellow human beings drives us toward any technology which will further isolate us from them. I read a book once about a Croatian expat who lived in Denmark. She worked there with her husband for several years and wrote about similarities/differences between Scandinavian and Balkan mentality. It was pretty interesting read. I mean, you cold bastards don't even pay for other people's coffee when you are the one asking them out, what's up with that?  Then again, using credit cards for almost everything and having a government administration that's *gasp* actually efficient sounds like a sweet deal.
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Oct 12, 2014 19:00
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Disco Infiva posted:I mean, you cold bastards don't even pay for other people's coffee when you are the one asking them out, what's up with that? They WHAT!?  Sorry, culture shock. edit: Intentionally hyperbolic culture shock my dad fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 19:04
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I feel like we've had this exact same discussion before. Next phase in the thread cycle is Americans posting maps about 'pop' versus 'soda'
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Oct 12, 2014 19:10
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Phlegmish posted:I feel like we've had this exact same discussion before. Next phase in the thread cycle is Americans posting maps about 'pop' versus 'soda' Cycles remind me of China, and China reminds me of coal.  Insert coke joke here
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Oct 12, 2014 19:14
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Phlegmish posted:I feel like we've had this exact same discussion before. Next phase in the thread cycle is Americans posting maps about 'pop' versus 'soda' You forgot coke. 
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Oct 12, 2014 19:15
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my dad posted:They WHAT!? In Latvia that is a real  , but here it slowly makes sense.Edit: Your small letters tricked my phone.
cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Oct 12, 2014 |
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Oct 12, 2014 19:15
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my dad posted:They WHAT!? It's not culture shock because scandanavian isn't a culture. It's just weirdo igloos-instead-of-houses insanity.
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Oct 12, 2014 19:57
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Disco Infiva posted:You forgot coke. Surprised Milwaukee and St. Louis are bastions of civilization. Any reason why they're the only places in the Midwest not to use "pop"?
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Oct 12, 2014 20:06
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Surprised Milwaukee and St. Louis are bastions of civilization. Any reason why they're the only places in the Midwest not to use "pop"? I think it has to do with them having large breweries, thus changing their name for carbonated water. And the south using Coke is a part of a long trend of prefering brand names to describe generic products (All tissues are Kleenex, all sodas are "cokes", there are more examples but those are the first two to come to mind) There, can we avoid this becoming a long conversation again? (No, no we can't)
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Oct 12, 2014 20:12
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Ammat The Ankh posted:Surprised Milwaukee and St. Louis are bastions of civilization. Any reason why they're the only places in the Midwest not to use "pop"? Low numbers of samples in other states/parts of states going by the web page. Also anecdotally I've never heard anyone call it anything but "Soda" except when I'm in Michigan.
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Oct 12, 2014 20:13
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Tonic.
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Oct 12, 2014 20:33
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It's nice to be able to pay with card pretty much everywhere here (speaking as a Swede), except in crowded bars/nightclubs. Then i always bring crash, makes the process a bit faster, unfortunately many patrons still keep paying with cards, so the already cluttered bar desk gets even more cluttered.
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Oct 12, 2014 20:33
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