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Ramos posted:Turns all of your player directed burn into creature burn too. Jeskai Charm can suddenly eliminate Mantis Rider, for example. It also lets them kill your creature with a burn spell on the stack and 2-for-1 you for some face damage. Firedancer is better for G/W decks that don't run instant speed removal.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:36
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Jabor posted:If you're wanting to cast CC spells in both colours early? Absolutely. The only double mana spell you're casting early in Jeskai is Brimaz though. And i'm not even sure he's correct to play.
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Oct 14, 2014 15:38
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Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing?
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Oct 14, 2014 16:13
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Boxman posted:Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing? Pretty sure it's because green sources are way more important for early drops in Abzan to stick the caryatid-courser curve reliably.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:14
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Boxman posted:Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing? Caves was printed in the Modern event deck as well.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:14
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Boxman posted:Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing? Just so happens that temple of malady is also the most expensive temple right now.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:16
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Maybe I've been unlucky or just drafting like poo poo, but KTK drafting just hasn't worked out for me lately. I can find sweet bombs pack 1 and 2 only to never see them and get overrun by the one guy who got four Mystics of the Hidden Way (none of which went past me), or draft an aggressive deck and lose match 1 to the one guy who decided to draft a million walls because all my removal has sublimated to the bottom of the deck somehow. Maybe I just need to reconsider my picks. Any suggestions here? I'm tired of getting 20 minutes of playtime out of my tickets. KTK seems much more like crafting a deck or solving a puzzle than normal sets. Deck synergy is huge and you have to be pretty selective about the pieces you need versus the pieces you don't. For instance, just in jeskai there are a few different archetypes, and it might be completely correct to take a Jeskai Student over a River Wheel Aerialist if you need to fill out your aggro curve. In that same deck, combat tricks and instant speed removal are top picks, while other playables might seem like a good pick but don't add the right things to your deck. I've found that forcing clans is fine though the first few picks of pack two, but by then you should have a good idea of what's open, what you are going deck wise for and hopefully a decent plan to switch into. However, the best decks come by reading what is open and that is a really easy way to get rewarded later in the draft. I've had a fair amount of success with Temur tempo beat down, Jeskai aggro and mardu of all sorts. The thing they all have in common is having relevant plays at two, and strong options or morphs on turns three through 5. I also really love counters in this format and having a cancel or two even in a three color deck is a really awesome security against a spell that would be otherwise hard to deal with. meanolmrcloud fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 16:20
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Eddie Whitson posted:Caves was printed in the Modern event deck as well.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:34
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meanolmrcloud posted:I also really love counters in this format and having a cancel or two even in a three color deck is a really awesome security against a spell that would be otherwise hard to deal with. Trap Essence has caught me on an embarrassing number of occasions, so I hear you there. I dunno, the last few drafts have been kind of hard for me to read. One kept being 3-4 very good cards in a pack... all in the same clan. Followed by three packs of absolute trash for any clan. Of course, in the end it turns out someone around the table got the nut draft anyway and left everyone else fighting over the clan that was occasionally good and being starved 80% of the time. I'm just not good enough of a drafter to know what to do in a situation like that where it feels like every on-color pick in a booster is garbage. What to do about color screw? Morphs help, but I'm hesitant to take a severely off-color one if I'm already fairly deep in two colors (a card that's only ever going to be a gray ogre isn't going to cut it in the long term), and I don't feel like taking refuges over good (or even just decent) removal is worth it. The drafts where I did well have mostly been Abzan where I got really good fixing and on-curve draws... but when that doesn't happen, I just fail completely in match 1.
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Oct 14, 2014 16:34
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Eddie Whitson posted:Caves was printed in the Modern event deck as well. Just the Modern Event Deck but it's a 3 or 4 of in there so that's why it's so low comparatively. All the others last saw print in Tenth Edition (Best Edition). Enemy Pain Lands have only been printed in 4 sets including M15. Ally Pain Lands have been printed in 6 (last seen in Tenth Edition). Get your Ice Age Pain Lands before they reprint them in Standard and the price shuffles up. 
Cernunnos fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 16:35
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Cernunnos posted:Just the Modern Event Deck but it's a 3 or 4 of in there so that's why it's so low comparatively. All the others last saw print in Tenth Edition (Best Edition). I am holding 50 copies of Caves that I picked up right when the Painlands were spoiled...bought all of the $.10-.20 ones I could find. I am hoping they get another $.25-.50 before I sell what I have. It isn't much, but I missed the boat on the Rabblemaster express.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:03
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Cernunnos posted:Just the Modern Event Deck but it's a 3 or 4 of in there so that's why it's so low comparatively. All the others last saw print in Tenth Edition (Best Edition). The main reason I'm hoping for an allied painland reprint is so that I can break out my Foglio art Sulphurous Springs.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:18
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With core sets rotating out I'm not sure how they'd fit Adarkar Wastes and Karplusan Forest into a land cycle. All the Apocalypse painlands are dominaria locations (except Battlefield Forge) and therefore pretty much could only be jammed in a core set but the Ice Age painlands have like two Terisiare-specific locations and the rest don't matter. The ONS fetches were vague names and not necessarily Otaria-related so they could be slotted onto Tarkir just fine. They could just not care I guess, or I'm being optimistic here but coldsnap 2!!!! Also yes Terisiare and Otaria are locations on Dominaria. Zoness fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 17:21
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Zoness posted:With core sets rotating out I'm not sure how they'd fit Adarkar Wastes and Karplusan Forest into a land cycle. All the Apocalypse painlands are dominaria locations (except Battlefield Forge) and therefore pretty much could only be jammed in a core set but the Ice Age painlands have like two Terisiare-specific locations and the rest don't matter. The ONS fetches were vague names and not necessarily Otaria-related so they could be slotted onto Tarkir just fine. There's still M16 or whatever they decide to call The Last of the Coresets.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:24
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They've still got M16 next Summer. And they could put the full 10 in the Beginners Set thing that will always be in Standard though they probably won't. I still like my, probably terrible, idea of it just being Tenth Edition with some changes.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:26
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As someone trying to get Into this, what are the preset event decks like? I'm looking at a Khans event deck to accompany my Mardu starter set. Is it worth buying the 2015 core box?
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Oct 14, 2014 17:32
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I'm really curious what they decide to do for the core set replacement. I could see it being something like a cross between the intro pack precon decks and a Deckbuilder's Toolkit. The question is will they change it every 6 months or will it end up being a collection of basic cards that are just always in Standard. I kind of doubt it will be the latter, because there are basic things Wizards likes to change up on a regular basis, like what kind of removal is available.SierraNovember posted:As someone trying to get Into this, what are the preset event decks like? I'm looking at a Khans event deck to accompany my Mardu starter set. Is it worth buying the 2015 core box? There's Event Decks and Intro Decks. The event decks are usually pretty good decks that could perform ok at an FNM standard tournament with a bit of tweaking. The Intro Decks are not competitive at all. The Khans event deck would be a pretty good place to start. It gives you a solid White/Black warriors deck you can tweak with whatever other cards you buy/trade for. People will tell you buying packs just to open them for cards is terrible value, and they're mostly right. It's cheaper on average to just buy the cards you need from a local or online shop. But when you're just starting out, it's fun to open packs just to see what you get, and the uncommons and commons are useful. I wouldn't go buying a box of boosters to open though, especially not Theros block / M15 that's going to rotate out in less than a year. Entropic fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 17:36
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Zoness posted:With core sets rotating out I'm not sure how they'd fit Adarkar Wastes and Karplusan Forest into a land cycle. All the Apocalypse painlands are dominaria locations (except Battlefield Forge) and therefore pretty much could only be jammed in a core set but the Ice Age painlands have like two Terisiare-specific locations and the rest don't matter. The ONS fetches were vague names and not necessarily Otaria-related so they could be slotted onto Tarkir just fine.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:46
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Boxman posted:Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing? Green devotion with black splash is a thing now.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:47
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Zemyla posted:Green devotion with black splash is a thing now. The tables have turned.
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Oct 14, 2014 17:58
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Boxman posted:Is there a reason Llanowar Waste is about 2.5 times the price of Caves of Koilos, or do we get to blame price memory from when Black devotion with green splash was a thing?
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Oct 14, 2014 18:17
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Entropic posted:I'm really curious what they decide to do for the core set replacement. I could see it being something like a cross between the intro pack precon decks and a Deckbuilder's Toolkit. The question is will they change it every 6 months or will it end up being a collection of basic cards that are just always in Standard. I kind of doubt it will be the latter, because there are basic things Wizards likes to change up on a regular basis, like what kind of removal is available. That sounds pretty sound. The m15 set is some kind of set with 170~ or so cards plus 100 off lands, not a booster box of packs. Worth it? But that Khans event deck is pretty ok? Yeah just for the odd FNM tournament. Nothing mega serious...yet!
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Oct 14, 2014 19:02
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The khans event deck is pretty terrible in my opinion. Like you could make a better deck with draft leavings.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:09
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SierraNovember posted:That sounds pretty sound. The m15 set is some kind of set with 170~ or so cards plus 100 off lands, not a booster box of packs. Worth it? But that Khans event deck is pretty ok? Yeah just for the odd FNM tournament. Nothing mega serious...yet! You're much better off looking at deck lists for something that seems fun and buying the cards than buying an event deck. You'll save money and win more.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:11
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SierraNovember posted:That sounds pretty sound. The m15 set is some kind of set with 170~ or so cards plus 100 off lands, not a booster box of packs. Worth it? But that Khans event deck is pretty ok? Yeah just for the odd FNM tournament. Nothing mega serious...yet! Babylon Astronaut posted:The khans event deck is pretty terrible in my opinion. Like you could make a better deck with draft leavings. It's not going to win any serious tournament, but no beginner deck is. It's a solid starting point with a lot of synergy in it. Maybe it doesn't match up well against whatever the top tier decks are this month, but so what, you lose to one of them round 1 and then have some fun playing against the other more casual decks. The question is do you want to put a deck together for cheap that you can have some fun playing casual games with, or do you want to try to win your FNM? If the latter, you'll have to just spend a bunch of money on singles. And do you want to jump into doing that before you even know what kind of decks you like to play? Booster draft is probably the most fun way to build up a collection of cards, but it's a bit complicated to jump right in with if you're still figuring out the basics of the game and aren't familiar with all the cards in the set.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:29
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Entropic posted:The question is do you want to put a deck together for cheap that you can have some fun playing casual games with, or do you want to try to win your FNM? If the latter, you'll have to just spend a bunch of money on singles. And do you want to jump into doing that before you even know what kind of decks you like to play? For $20, you can build SubSligh and win against some much more expensive decks. Usually the choices are expensive good deck, cheap good red deck, or event deck. I bought a few copies of SubSligh to share with people I know who don't own any Standard decks at all.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:33
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Yeah I was gonna post suggesting Sligh as well. If you practice with the deck you can at least get to like a 50% win rate in competitive play. Basic list, based on decks that literally won SCG State Championships this past weekend: 4 Monastery Swiftspear 4 Foundry Street Denizen 4 Firedrinker Satyr 4 Akroan Crusader 4 Satyr Hoplite 2 Frenzied Goblin 4 Hammerhand 4 Dragon Mantle 4 Coordinated Assault 4 Titan's Strength 4 Lightning Strike 18 Mountain Sideboard: 1 Blinding Flare 2 Magma Spray 3 Searing Blood 2 Circle of Flame/Arc Lightning 2 Act of Treason 1 Mountain 3 Hordeling Outburst 1 Hall of Triumph The non-budget upgrade is that you want Stoke the Flames in the list but those are over $4 each (for an uncommon!) right now, sadly. EDIT: I optimized on TCG Player the 58 non-Mountain cards I listed there (including 2 each of Circle/Arc) and it came out to $19.66 shipped. Boco_T fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 19:45
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It would be nice to be at least somewhat competitive without having to go down the full on net-decking which kind of takes away some of the fun, even as a beginner, it would be cool to stand a chance to win making 'better plays' than purely because someone else spent £1000 on their deck.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:45
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SierraNovember posted:It would be nice to be at least somewhat competitive without having to go down the full on net-decking which kind of takes away some of the fun, even as a beginner, it would be cool to stand a chance to making 'better plays' than purely because someone else spent £1000 on their deck. You know, all the good chess players learned by studying what better players do.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:46
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Entropic posted:The question is do you want to put a deck together for cheap that you can have some fun playing casual games with, or do you want to try to win your FNM? If the latter, you'll have to just spend a bunch of money on singles. And do you want to jump into doing that before you even know what kind of decks you like to play? I mean come the gently caress on, it's a mardu aggro deck without red that takes at least 3 turns to present a threat and if you draw perfectly, it makes some 3/3 creatures around turn 4. It will be much more frustrating than fun, but if you really have your heart set on it, and want to keep up the argument that good decks are lame go ahead. Babylon Astronaut fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 19:47
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:You know, all the good chess players learned by studying what better players do. But in chess, each board starts equal.
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Oct 14, 2014 19:47
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SierraNovember posted:But in chess, each board starts equal. A game of magic starts way before you even get to the board though. You have to choose what pieces are going to be in your deck while your opponent does the same. You start with identical card pools to make your deck from. The only way to learn which pieces are good, and in what situations is to mimic those who have come before you until you know what MAKES a piece good. Even then, contextually a bad piece may become good or vice versa. Mono-red is a great Level-0 deck its a strong proactive deck that ignores everything about the format in favor of quick damage. Build casual deck on the cheap to play at home, or better yet sealed to practice your card evaluation, but use other people's lists in competitive environments until you understand what makes them tick and how to evaluate. Even then, these lists are polished through hours of playtesting most of us dont do. Creating a good deck requires great evaluation skills and lots of playtest time. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 20:00
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SierraNovember posted:It would be nice to be at least somewhat competitive without having to go down the full on net-decking which kind of takes away some of the fun, even as a beginner, it would be cool to stand a chance to win making 'better plays' than purely because someone else spent £1000 on their deck. If you don't like the net-decking aspect of constructed, you could try limited. Draft is a great way to level the playing field.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:02
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SierraNovember posted:It would be nice to be at least somewhat competitive without having to go down the full on net-decking which kind of takes away some of the fun, even as a beginner, it would be cool to stand a chance to win making 'better plays' than purely because someone else spent £1000 on their deck. You should definitely build the all-one-mana-creatures red deck then. You'll be able to steal wins against people who buy whatever deck won the pro tour but don't know how to pilot it. And it's super cheap. I think the only rares in the deck are Firedrinker Satyrs and they're $2 each at the most.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:03
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Draft core, though. Khans is a really complex draft environment.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:05
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Draft is super fun, but yeah, they keep putting out sets like Khans which are super fun for an experienced drafter but a little daunting to a new player.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:06
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Is there a way to build a deck on modo without having the cards yet? Like I want to build the deck and see it visually so I know what cards I need to go get from trading. I thought there was a way to do it and it would mark the cards you don't have but I don't know how.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:08
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Fingers McLongDong posted:Is there a way to build a deck on modo without having the cards yet? Like I want to build the deck and see it visually so I know what cards I need to go get from trading. I thought there was a way to do it and it would mark the cards you don't have but I don't know how. Yes. there is a scale on the top I believe (EDIT: under the quantity tab in the Collection menu). It starts at 1, but you can reduce it to 0 in order to see every card ever released on Modo (so... all of them?) and then you can put those cards into a deck. there will be a yield sign warning you that you don't have those cards, but you can still build the theory. Gensuki fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Oct 14, 2014 |
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Oct 14, 2014 20:19
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Start with Sealed, not draft. Draft is more fun for most players once you're experienced, but without an understanding of what your deck needs it can be frustrating.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:20
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If you're looking for a cheap, effective standard deck that isn't RDW, Todd Anderson's Azorius Soul Blade looked good.
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Oct 14, 2014 20:27
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