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Harmless glitches that don't get patched out. It seems like a lot of companies have forgotten what fun is. Take Rockstar for example: in Red Dead Redemption, we had that one stack of logs on the Macfarlane (?) ranch that would rocket you into the stratosphere if you took cover in just the right way. That was taken out. GTA5 used to have a silly glitch that let you walk in the air. I learned about it earlier tonight, only to find I wasn't able to pull it off. The load times made testing that even worse when I eventually saw there was no payoff. On the other hand, there's Media Molecule. I seem to recall something during LBP2's development where they were talking about the bugs people had discovered in LBP1, and the steps they were taking to ensure those bugs would continue to function in the sequel so that people's creations didn't get screwed up. That's awesome.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:19
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I don't understand the insistence that everything else about Mordor is average, it's not. The combat is fluid and responsive in ways that even the Batman games aren't, notably how good the game is at responding to your button presses when you're countering, the execute system is pretty great and the loot you get can give you further incentives to get streaks. You actually need to get decent streaks to clear out mobs, which seems to be a much greater incentive than in the Batman games. The animations and timing in Batman may make it seem more fluid, but I recall the controls in Batman refusing to do what I wanted far more often than in Mordor. While a lot of people don't like the stealth system, I think they actually did something incredible with it, they made it so that stealth isn't sitting around for twenty loving minutes waiting for people to walk by you, there are always tons of bushes, it's difficult for Uruks to see you when you're hanging from ledges or above them, the distract button makes them come over immediately, and because there's a hesitation before an Uruk will actually detect you even if he sees you, it allows the stealth to be quick, fluid, and constant, versus the stutter stop poo poo that people actually think is fun these days. Even the MGS games have moved past that concept, Dishonored did an alright job (unless you were playing nonlethal) yet games like Thief and most notably and recently, Alien: Isolation, still think that sitting around for minutes on end is somehow an engaging experience. Also, things are ALWAYS happening in the world, Uruks are chasing slaves, Caragors are hunting down and exterminating Uruks, Graugs are getting mobbed on by Uruks trying to take them down, Ghuls are popping out of the ground and swarming all over the place, there is always something happening, the maps are much smaller and so you don't have to go very far to run into a Nemesis event or see something dynamic happening in the world. Compare this to massive lifeless wastelands like GTAV or Watch_Dogs. You don't have to do anything special to fast travel, just not be in combat, so if you don't feel like spending all of the 2 minutes it would take you to run across the map, you could do that. There's no fall damage, and the climbing is responsive and lets you practically climb over everything, so you don't have to spend minutes sidling around looking for a way to get up somewhere. It isn't just the Nemesis system that makes Mordor good, it's that everything has been streamlined, made less time-consuming, made more responsive, and most importantly, less a pain in the rear end to do. Everything is just geared towards being fun and making sure that each gameplay system doesn't mean the player is going to be constantly having to move over bumps in order to enjoy what they want to do. It's very much a game that says "gently caress you." to excessive attempts to immerse the player and rather just immerses them in an incredibly fun and fluid, no frills, experience with a fantastic centerpiece (the Nemesis system) so that the player has not only a game that's fun to react to, but a game that will react to the player and make him feel like he's actively participating in the world, and guess what, the Nemesis system is so obscenely gamey that so many current artsy fartsy developers would decry it as being a step backwards as far as dynamic narrative devices go, but they'd be loving idiots, because the stories that have been told by players in Mordor are signifigantly more interesting than nearly any game. Mordor isn't just a flavor of the month game, it's an incredibly well designed game that has some very good steps made towards taking a massively overstated genre (third person open world) and actually moving it forward much more than any other recent game.
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Oct 15, 2014 03:40
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Yeah SoM is pretty polished and great, and whilst the Nemesis system is definitely the best part of it, I think it'd still be a pretty highly enjoyable game without it, because it's a solid blend of AssCreed and LotR with some Batmans. Like JebanyPedal says, it's a really smooth experience that cuts a hell of a lot of the bullshit out. Even when you die you're back in the action in seconds. I don't want this from every game, sometimes I do personally like a slower stealth affair, but god drat sometimes is it great to just rip people apart with brutal slices and gently caress over Uruks who are taking a piss.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:17
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liquidypoo posted:Harmless glitches that don't get patched out. It seems like a lot of companies have forgotten what fun is. Take Rockstar for example: in Red Dead Redemption, we had that one stack of logs on the Macfarlane (?) ranch that would rocket you into the stratosphere if you took cover in just the right way. That was taken out. GTA5 used to have a silly glitch that let you walk in the air. I learned about it earlier tonight, only to find I wasn't able to pull it off. The load times made testing that even worse when I eventually saw there was no payoff. I remember a physics glitch in the early days of Halo 3 would let you punch people across the goddamn map. Best exemplified here. So of course it got patched out.
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Oct 15, 2014 04:19
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Bloodcider posted:I remember a physics glitch in the early days of Halo 3 would let you punch people across the goddamn map. Best exemplified here. So of course it got patched out. There was the glitch in Skyrim where if you got thwomped by a giant you would launch into the stratosphere. The devs thought it was hilarious that they intentionally didn't fix it any of their official patches.
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Oct 15, 2014 06:25
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I just love ripping out the throats of orks. Especially that one ork who keeps on coming at me at the worst moments.
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Oct 15, 2014 06:41
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TontoCorazon posted:I just love ripping out the throats of orks. Especially that one ork who keeps on coming at me at the worst moments. Yeah, the combat system in SoM might be pretty derivative of Arkham, but goddamn it feels good. My favorite execution is the one where Talion sweeps the orc's legs and then impales him as he's falling, mostly because it goes into way more slo-mo than is probably necessary and a really really loud SCHWIIIIIIING as his sword comes down.
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Oct 15, 2014 07:09
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Bloodcider posted:I remember a physics glitch in the early days of Halo 3 would let you punch people across the goddamn map. Best exemplified here. So of course it got patched out. My favorite glitches are the ones the developers realize are in the game but are so goddamn hilarious that they deliberately leave them in. My favorite is still Saints Row The Third's exploding gimp rickshaws.
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Oct 15, 2014 11:12
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JebanyPedal posted:I don't understand the insistence that everything else about Mordor is average, it's not. Having just played it, I have to say that the reason combat is easier is because it rewards mashing compared to the Arkham games where it will gently caress you over. You can cancel into a counter at almost anytime and the combat doesn't reward controlling the area like Batman or even Sleeping Dogs do. You can even counter during a ground execution, making spacing and timing trivial for a combat system initially designed for it. That being said, it is drat fun and is the best Batman combat clone after the Arhkham series and Sleeping Dogs.
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Oct 15, 2014 11:48
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My favorite thing about Bayonetta 2 is that Bayo's rear end was so big it knocked 2.5 points off the Polygon review score.
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Oct 15, 2014 14:15
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What the hell, I'll add my fellating to the pile: Shadow of Mordor is pretty great. Both the combat, stealth and platforming have been simplified, yes, but the overall package is solid. I have only just started playing, but I have already made a couple of Nemeses (I'm bad at video games, alright). It's also really well optimized. I'm running it on my old laptop without graphical bells or whistles, but I still get an average of 15 FPS (which to me is playable enough).
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Oct 15, 2014 14:18
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Babe Magnet posted:My favorite thing about Bayonetta 2 is that Bayo's rear end was so big it knocked 2.5 points off the Polygon review score. That's the opposite of a little thing in a game
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Oct 15, 2014 14:19
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JebanyPedal posted:It's very much a game that says "gently caress you." to excessive attempts to immerse the player and rather just immerses them...the Nemesis system is so obscenely gamey that so many current artsy fartsy developers would decry it as being a step backwards as far as dynamic narrative devices go, but they'd be loving idiots, because the stories that have been told by players in Mordor are signifigantly more interesting than nearly any game. Is anyone actually arguing this? Is the lead dev for Gone Home or some other storygames bogeyman up in Kotaku this month saying "emergent stories are actually fairly bad" or where are you getting this from
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Oct 15, 2014 19:49
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The main complaint about the nemesis system is how videogamey it is, because it follows the trend of you very obviously killing a dude stone cold dead, but then they come back anyway because they're your rival or something. I had that complaint initially but the game at least tries to be like "yeah but there are only a few ways you can perma-kill orcs" and all you can do is shrug and go fine whatever. If you can get past that, it's a really good game! It's just that... some people can't. CJacobs has a new favorite as of 20:12 on Oct 15, 2014 |
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Oct 15, 2014 19:54
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1redflag posted:There was the glitch in Skyrim where if you got thwomped by a giant you would launch into the stratosphere. The devs thought it was hilarious that they intentionally didn't fix it any of their official patches. It's a function of overkill being converted into momentum, which is why things ragdoll dramaticall when hit by fireballs. It works off of base damage, though, which is why your 400-damage daedric warhammer doesn't launch things into the stratosphere. Its base damage is still 27, just hit with a million multipliers. The Giant's club has a base damage of 230, which is why it tends to launch.
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Oct 15, 2014 23:09
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1redflag posted:There was the glitch in Skyrim where if you got thwomped by a giant you would launch into the stratosphere. The devs thought it was hilarious that they intentionally didn't fix it any of their official patches. There was a physics bug in Counter-Strike Source some years ago that would fling you around when you interacted with certain objects. With a bit of practice and luck, you could launch yourself onto places you weren't meant to reach. It was a side effect of servers that at the time couldn't handle the stress of having players stand on top of physics elements, like barrels or pallets. If you tried to do so you'd just slide off. So if you could find some pieces of physics debris that could collide and have you in the middle of it, you'd fly into the sky 
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Oct 15, 2014 23:52
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CJacobs posted:The main complaint about the nemesis system is how videogamey it is, because it follows the trend of you very obviously killing a dude stone cold dead, but then they come back anyway because they're your rival or something. I had that complaint initially but the game at least tries to be like "yeah but there are only a few ways you can perma-kill orcs" and all you can do is shrug and go fine whatever. I'm having the opposite problem. It seems that no matter what I do Talion can't help but decapitate an Uruk. And those that don't die this way never seem to do well enough on the RNG to come back. I want my cool Nemesis stories too, damnit!
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Oct 16, 2014 00:59
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Continuing to add to the pile of compliments for the Nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor: Right after finishing the tutorial, I jumped off a small cliff and brawled with the first Captain I saw, Mogrul the Giggler. Eventually two other Captains wandered over as well as a massive monster-looking guy and I booked it back up the cliff. For some reason the monster guy went berserk and stomped all 3 Captains into the ground. An hour later I got stabbed in the back by Mogrul, who had gone up in power quite a bit after I died once. I gained my weird giggling nemesis pretty much right out of the gate by getting his face stomped on by a big monster that ignored me for some reason. And now Mogrul terrified of the big monster guys.  For non-SoM chat, I'm replaying Skyward Sword in Hero Mode and this time around I'm taking the time to enjoy the music. I particularly love when Groose comes into the scene, because the music will either a) change to his awesome theme or b) mix his theme into the current music.
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Oct 16, 2014 01:23
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Who What Now posted:I'm having the opposite problem. It seems that no matter what I do Talion can't help but decapitate an Uruk. And those that don't die this way never seem to do well enough on the RNG to come back. If you want to kill them without decapitating them, explosions and throwing them off ledges are your friends! I tend to find that if I use a combat execution then head comes off, most other deaths head stays on.
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Oct 16, 2014 01:32
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SiKboy posted:If you want to kill them without decapitating them, explosions and throwing them off ledges are your friends! I tend to find that if I use a combat execution then head comes off, most other deaths head stays on.
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Oct 16, 2014 01:41
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swamp waste posted:Is anyone actually arguing this? Is the lead dev for Gone Home or some other storygames bogeyman up in Kotaku this month saying "emergent stories are actually fairly bad" or where are you getting this from People argue all the time that emergent gameplay relies on total immersion and the events feeling natural and not gamey. Kind of in how in RDR they would occur with little prompting and no direction given to the player as how to intercede. RDR did it fine, but generally it seems that there's an attitude of the best way to progress gameplay is to minimize the UI, shroud every decision and mechanic under an illusion that makes them appear totally organic and unscripted, and make them function totally without the player's influence. The more it appears the game is influencing what is happening artificially, the less effective it is. And it's just not the case. Mordor's obvious and totally unsubtle system is significantly more efficient and memorable.
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Oct 16, 2014 03:09
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People complaining about a video game being "gamey" will never cease to confuse me. Yes it is, thats why I'm playing a video game because I'm in the mood to play a game, which will be by definition gamey. Make it gamey as gently caress, that is literally why I'm playing a game. When I read a book I dont complain that its too "Booky", I've never walked out a movie because it was too movie-y.Croccers posted:Throwing them of ledges is hilarious because they don't even tumble or squirm or anything. Just float down to the ground in a slightly off-skew T-pose. Orcs firmly believe that if you dont move, gravity cant see you and wont hurt you.
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Oct 16, 2014 13:27
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SiKboy posted:People complaining about a video game being "gamey" will never cease to confuse me. Yes it is, thats why I'm playing a video game because I'm in the mood to play a game, which will be by definition gamey. Make it gamey as gently caress, that is literally why I'm playing a game. When I read a book I dont complain that its too "Booky", I've never walked out a movie because it was too movie-y. People legitimately trying to compare video games with movies or books despite them being a different thing altogether never ceases to confuse me either, but it's a world full of mysteries out there.
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Oct 16, 2014 13:50
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People play games for various reasons and one of them is immersion. That's not to say that immersion is the absolute most important feature of video games on the whole, or that every single game has to offer it, of course, but it's also not inherently good or bad.
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Oct 16, 2014 14:07
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One of my favorite things in Animal Crossing is that if you catch a bug/fish and a villager is nearby, they'll cheer and clap for you. They'll also cower and cover their eyes if you get stung by bees. In Persona 3 Portable (yes, I'm late to the party, shut up.) I really like how some character's reactions will change towards you if you wear certain armors in Tartarus.
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Oct 16, 2014 15:49
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Not many games are easily identifiable as games any more besides being interactive and fans of the existing state of games are largely going to dislike things that go against the newer tradition of being interactive fiction. It's okay though. New games have still not found a way to make old games stop existing (besides the fact that unlike every other form of media there's little to no effort made by their creators or IP owners to allow future generations to experience classics from previous generations, something that isn't entirely even their own fault due to constantly shifting hardware demands). Truth be told, if you're looking for the real 'game' experience you should probably stick to online competitive multiplayer games or maybe go back to the classic Atari era style games where a high score is the aim (lots of mobile gaming embraces this model). Otherwise, like it or not, come to terms with the fact that for 3+ generations of consoles now video games have been increasingly used to tell stories any most current players grew up with this.
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Oct 16, 2014 17:07
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Sad lions posted:Not many games are easily identifiable as games any more besides being interactive and fans of the existing state of games are largely going to dislike things that go against the newer tradition of being interactive fiction. Hmm yes, that minor thing which literally defines video games and differentiates them from every other medium. I can see how that could be a minor factor somewhere. Also story-heavy gameplay-light games have been a thing for a long-rear end time now, if anything they're simply making a comeback. But seriously though, no matter how trendy ~cinematic experiences~ are right now, if you actually have a hard time distinguishing games from movies in the year 2014 then you have bigger issues than this silly hobby. Gone Homes and Walking Deads and whatnot certainly get a lot of attention, but 98% of video games are very clearly video games even today. Now to cleverly tie this to the actual topic; in Fallout 3 there's a  beheaded corpse of a man named Gibson who is a reference to the similarly beheaded Jean-Jack Gibson from the 1988(!) story-focused video game(!!) Snatcher. If you loot him you even find the exact same note you find from Jean-Jack in Snatcher.
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Oct 16, 2014 18:14
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Kanfy posted:If you loot him you even find the exact same note you find from Jean-Jack in Snatcher. Post the note!
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Oct 16, 2014 18:36
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1redflag posted:Post the note! The Note posted:TWAS ALL FOR BONERS
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Oct 16, 2014 18:47
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1redflag posted:Post the note! There isn't much to it, it just says "Search the house!" which is actually a double reference; in Snatcher it's a hint towards searching a small model house in Gibson's actual house, and in Fallout 3 the key which you loot from Gibson which the original Gibson also has unlocks a small model house which is situated in "Gibson's House".Man, that got a bit confusing to write. Kanfy has a new favorite as of 19:00 on Oct 16, 2014 |
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Oct 16, 2014 18:57
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1redflag posted:Post the note! Fallout Wiki posted:Search the House!
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Oct 16, 2014 18:59
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SiKboy posted:People complaining about a video game being "gamey" will never cease to confuse me. Yes it is, thats why I'm playing a video game because I'm in the mood to play a game, which will be by definition gamey. Make it gamey as gently caress, that is literally why I'm playing a game. When I read a book I dont complain that its too "Booky", I've never walked out a movie because it was too movie-y. I think of those complaints are really about the mechanics of the game, which seems fair to me.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:14
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Actually while I'm on the subject of Snatcher, it has quite a few funny touches (it's a Hideo Kojima game after all). A couple that come to mind: - Early on in the game you explore a ruined factory, and your robot helper (called Metal Gear by the way, pretty sure the one in MGS4 is based on this guy) mentions that he can hear ticking and that you should turn up your volume to hear it. It's obviously a time bomb and after it loudly explodes and the protagonist barely escapes, there's this interaction between them: quote:Gillian: Jeez, my ears are really ringin'. - You can use your HQ's computer to get info about various things. If you type KOJIMA, you get a small message from the man himself:  - In the game you also have access to a codec-like phone which you can use to call various people by typing in a phone number. One of the numbers you get is for "LoveLine", and calling there twice (IIRC) nets you this pretty great conversation. Linked because it's a huge image.
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Oct 16, 2014 19:27
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Sad lions posted:
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Oct 16, 2014 21:06
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Why do they always seem to list blood type right along with name and birthday in Japan?
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Oct 16, 2014 21:54
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Aphrodite posted:Why do they always seem to list blood type right along with name and birthday in Japan? Colloquial belief that it influences one's personality, kinda like astrological signs are here.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:57
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carry on then posted:Surely the developers might have a good understanding of that the game can and cannot do well on last generation's hardware and are doing what they can to salvage the experience given they are running on mid-tier hardware from 2007. 2005 
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Oct 16, 2014 23:08
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Kanfy posted:Hmm yes, that minor thing which literally defines video games and differentiates them from every other medium. I can see how that could be a minor factor somewhere. Also story-heavy gameplay-light games have been a thing for a long-rear end time now, if anything they're simply making a comeback. It's not likely to go away any time soon and you are going to be disappointed if you think AAA devs and publishers are going to ignore the trends that have brought them so much money in recent years. I like how the industry looks right now though so I'm enjoying them more often than not. I think people forget how horrible most games used to be. Keeping to the thread topic: The enemy marking system in MGS Ground Zeroes (and soon Phantom Pain) is an absolutely fantastic system that encourages doing a spot of recon before moving in. Unlike other games that hand you a pair of binoculars that you end up never using this one allows you to see marked enemies through walls to make up for the lack of radar. Of course you can still be surprised and turn a corner to find a guard whose patrol route was out of view from your vantage point but that's where the reflex ability will save you instead. It's a neat system that rewards planning but also doesn't require perfection to get the whole stealth thing down.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:14
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Sad lions posted:It's not likely to go away any time soon and you are going to be disappointed if you think AAA devs and publishers are going to ignore the trends that have brought them so much money in recent years. Far Cry had a similar system.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:16
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Kanfy posted:Now to cleverly tie this to the actual topic; in Fallout 3 there's a The note on his body is also a hint that the key on his body allows you to unlock a tiny model house inside one of the homes in Minefield.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:20
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