Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies - Wild Accusations and Unabashed Bluffing

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies - Wild Accusations and Unabashed Bluffing

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Linear Zoetrope: Nov 28, 2011; A hero must cook

TheKingofSprings posted:

Plus I can't imagine the judge thinking Wright did it.

Someone who forges wouldn't have to resort to half of the bullshit Wright pulls in court.

"Your honor, if I may speak freely... if I forged evidence, would every case really end in someone running into court at the last second and yelling HOLD IT!?"

# ? Oct 15, 2014 23:59

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:18

Lotus Aura: Aug 16, 2009; KNEEL BEFORE THE WICKED KING!

Jsor posted:

"Your honor, if I may speak freely... if I forged evidence, would every case really end in someone running into court at the last second and yelling HOLD IT!?"

"...Yes...?"

# ? Oct 16, 2014 00:01

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

Dragonatrix posted:

"...Yes...?"

"Your Honor, I cross-examined a parrot."

# ? Oct 16, 2014 00:03

Hopeford: Oct 15, 2010; Eh, why not?

Waffleman_ posted:

"Your Honor, I cross-examined a parrot."

"Are you saying you forged a parrot? Why, in all of my years as a judge, I have never heard of such despicable behavior."

# ? Oct 16, 2014 00:35

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Since Fulbright probably won't be around during the next main game I hope Ema and Gumshoe both show up as detectives.

I like them both and I'm not sure who I miss more

# ? Oct 16, 2014 01:24

Strange Quark: Oct 15, 2012; I Failed At Anime 2022

Hopeford posted:

"Are you saying you forged a parrot? Why, in all of my years as a judge, I have never heard of such despicable behavior."

You joke, but von Karma came close to doing that for real.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 01:24

Irony Be My Shield: Jul 29, 2012

Yeah Wright had two high-profile friends within the prosecution service, I wouldn't be surprised if they could make things happen. And of course there's also Chief of Police Gumshoe.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 01:42

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

So where were they going with Drew Misham sketching all 3 of the cases Apollo was on up to that point anyway?

Was he actually intended to be Apollo's father at some point in development? :tinfoil:

# ? Oct 16, 2014 03:36

Strange Quark: Oct 15, 2012; I Failed At Anime 2022

TheKingofSprings posted:

So where were they going with Drew Misham sketching all 3 of the cases Apollo was on up to that point anyway?

Was he actually intended to be Apollo's father at some point in development?

I thought it was going to be something really sinister, but I think it turned to be Misham keeping an eye on whatever the Wright Offices were up to, and it only happened to be all of Apollo's cases because he was the only lawyer there.

It never really amounts as much as it could have, kind of like most of AJ.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 03:58

ikanreed: Sep 25, 2009; I honestly I have no idea who cannibal[SIC] is and I do not know why I should know.

syq dude, just syq!

I just kinda rolled with it on the same basis I just kinda roll with "Guilty until one of the prosecution's primary witnesses proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt".

# ? Oct 16, 2014 04:19

Carlosologist: Oct 13, 2013; Revelry in the Dark

I hope the next main AA has a grown up Maya in there. How she would fit is a different story but she should be around Mia's age in the game timeline, so it would be interesting to see what the design for her would be. Literally grown up Maya or some elements of Mia's design thrown in there?

What I'm saying is AA6 needs to happen within the next two years.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 04:32

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

I'm actually really interested in what they're going to do with the old cast for AA6 because I think DD was strong enough to serve as the start of a new trilogy focusing on Apollo and Athena, since they've got more character to explore than Phoenix does at this point. But the nostalgic return of old characters has pretty much become cemented in the series and most of the characters people want to see are from the original trilogy.

I'm interested in how they'll handle that. The new characters have more opportunity for development but the old characters are the ones with sustained popularity. It seems like something that will be very hard to balance in order to make a good story.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 05:04

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

I finally finished Dual Destinies after taking about six months off between the Nine-Tails murder and the Themis murder, then another six months off before doing the rest.

I gotta say, I'm fuckin' buuummed about Fulbright being dead/an impostor. Loved that guy.

Now, whenever I can bring myself to exit out of Smash Brothers, on to PLvsAA!

# ? Oct 16, 2014 05:47

psychoJ: Feb 24, 2011; Smart and cool, handsome, wealthy and so sexy

Irony Be My Shield posted:

And of course there's also Chief of Police Gumshoe.

If this isn't an actual thing in AA6, then I'm quitting video games forever.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 05:51

Opposing Farce: Apr 1, 2010; Ever since our drop-off service, I never read a book.
There's always something else around, plus I owe the library nineteen bucks.

psychoJ posted:

If this isn't an actual thing in AA6, then I'm quitting video games forever.

Chief of Police Gumshoe, of course, still subsists entirely on instant ramen.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 05:54

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Carlosologist posted:

some elements of Mia's design

SyntheticPolygon posted:

I'm actually really interested in what they're going to do with the old cast for AA6 because I think DD was strong enough to serve as the start of a new trilogy focusing on Apollo and Athena, since they've got more character to explore than Phoenix does at this point. But the nostalgic return of old characters has pretty much become cemented in the series and most of the characters people want to see are from the original trilogy.

I'm interested in how they'll handle that. The new characters have more opportunity for development but the old characters are the ones with sustained popularity. It seems like something that will be very hard to balance in order to make a good story.

Blackquill and Klavier will show up periodically but their time in the limelight's probably spent. They'll probably be treated similarly to Franziska.

Trucy's role pretty much got taken over by Athena, who's actually an attorney and therefore can be playable, so she's kind of left stranded.

And holy gently caress if they ever follow through on anything with Lamiroir and her whole plot thread from AJ, they basically ignored most of the plot from that game in DD, so...

I guess that leaves Ema? :confused:

# ? Oct 16, 2014 06:11

Ammat The Ankh: Sep 7, 2010; Now, attempt to defeat me!
And I shall become a living legend!

RadicalR posted:

So, I forget, does any of the Phoenix Wright games have a music room where I can just leave it on and listen to all of the epic tracks?

Strange Quark posted:

Nah, DD definitely does

alcharagia posted:

Dual Destinies has what

No seriously, where is it? I haven't found anything like that in the game.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 06:29

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

TheKingofSprings posted:

Blackquill and Klavier will show up periodically but their time in the limelight's probably spent. They'll probably be treated similarly to Franziska.

Trucy's role pretty much got taken over by Athena, who's actually an attorney and therefore can be playable, so she's kind of left stranded.

And holy gently caress if they ever follow through on anything with Lamiroir and her whole plot thread from AJ, they basically ignored most of the plot from that game in DD, so...

I guess that leaves Ema?

Athena also introduces a gameplay mechanic, whereas Trucy just has the same powers as Apollo.

Ammat The Ankh posted:

No seriously, where is it? I haven't found anything like that in the game.

That's news to me, too, and I just finished the game and poked around, rewatching all the cutscenes, looking at the art, and downloading the DLC case.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 06:31

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

TheKingofSprings posted:

Blackquill and Klavier will show up periodically but their time in the limelight's probably spent. They'll probably be treated similarly to Franziska.

Trucy's role pretty much got taken over by Athena, who's actually an attorney and therefore can be playable, so she's kind of left stranded.

And holy gently caress if they ever follow through on anything with Lamiroir and her whole plot thread from AJ, they basically ignored most of the plot from that game in DD, so...

I guess that leaves Ema?

I meant more that the next game is definitely going to have some re-appearances from the DD cast and probably from characters from the original trilogy too, so I think it'll be hard to balance all the returning characters with the new cast it'll inevitably have.

Also Trucy hasn't been a defendant yet, or even a witness, so that's something she'll probably go through in the future.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:12

nftyw: Dec 27, 2006; It is a game... where you will put your life on the line.; Lipstick Apathy

If Trucy is ever a defendant the first thing I am going to do in court is present my attorney's badge five times. :geno:

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:13

Linear Zoetrope: Nov 28, 2011; A hero must cook

I'm just waiting for the tutorial chapter to be some new lawyer under Phoenix defending Maya and Phoenix just going "yeah, this happens every year or two, I use it as a training seminar for rookies now :shrug:

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:13

Suspicious Cook: Oct 9, 2012; Onward to burgers!

TheKingofSprings posted:

And holy gently caress if they ever follow through on anything with Lamiroir and her whole plot thread from AJ, they basically ignored most of the plot from that game in DD, so...

It would be about time. It would also be a great way to get Maya back on scene with Trucy asking her to channel Thalassa.

"Nick, she's asking about the alive woman. Are we going to tell her?"

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:22

Adeline Weishaupt: Oct 16, 2013; by Lowtax

Opposing Farce posted:

Chief of Police Gumshoe, of course, still subsists entirely on instant ramen.

However, he does have a great moustache. You all imagined it, even before I bought it up!

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:29

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

SyntheticPolygon posted:

Also Trucy hasn't been a defendant yet, or even a witness, so that's something she'll probably go through in the future.

Nobody's part of the Ace Attorney gang until they've been accused of murder

Apollo and Trucy still haven't gone through their initiation rites yet

E: oh yeah, has this made the rounds in the thread yet? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSyYps8xJfs

TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 07:43 on Oct 16, 2014

# ? Oct 16, 2014 07:41

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

Oh, one more DD observation:

I laughed out loud when the Judge said "It's as though she was seriously wounded, but the soul still burns.."

I'm easy to please

nftyw posted:

If Trucy is ever a defendant the first thing I am going to do in court is present my attorney's badge five times.

Is this a reference to something in the series I've long forgotten?

# ? Oct 16, 2014 08:25

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Holy poo poo I just realized Mr. Hat is a wooden dummy of Trucy's father

That's actually really sad :smith:

# ? Oct 16, 2014 08:25

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

ALFbrot posted:

Is this a reference to something in the series I've long forgotten?

He's gonna present the wrong evidence 5 times so she'll be found guilty.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 08:37

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

SyntheticPolygon posted:

He's gonna present the wrong evidence 5 times so she'll be found guilty.

Oh, haha. Maybe it's because it's been so long since I played Apollo Justice, but I don't remember her being that bad. She's not that bad in DD, anyway.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 08:40

Lurdiak: Feb 26, 2006; I believe in a universe that doesn't care, and people that do.

ALFbrot posted:

Oh, haha. Maybe it's because it's been so long since I played Apollo Justice, but I don't remember her being that bad. She's not that bad in DD, anyway.

That's because she's barely in it.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 09:11

SyntheticPolygon: Dec 20, 2013

Lurdiak posted:

That's because she's barely in it.

But she wasn't that bad in AJ either. Honestly, she's probably the most developed of the new characters introduced in that game. But I liked that game more than most people, so that just might be me.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 09:59

The Unholy Ghost: Feb 19, 2011

SyntheticPolygon posted:

But she wasn't that bad in AJ either. Honestly, she's probably the most developed of the new characters introduced in that game. But I liked that game more than most people, so that just might be me.

Wasn't there some guy around here who proclaimed Kristoph Gavin as the most complex antagonist in all of fiction and then wrote four+ massive paragraphs on him?

EDIT: Found it. Interesting stuff.

MattTheDoctor posted:

While I'll admit Apollo Justice has its problems (and I really did love that game) I think that Kristoph is one of the most brilliantly-handled characters in the series. I've mentioned before he's my favorite fictional character of all time and that's because there are layers and layers of subtext to the guy. In a series not really known for much subtext (if you ignore the squeals of the fangirls) that's a big deal. Yes, he's a perfectionist with a law obsession, but he's also prone to fits of rage because of it, and it's implied that his fingers have been in so many cases and so many lives from before the series even started. His motive wasn't just not being able to defend Zak Gramarye, it was his perfect worldview being ruined by that pesky outlier, Phoenix Wright.

One of the most interesting implications is part of the Kristoph/Klavier relationship - or the possible lack thereof. When we see younger Klavier in the flashback case, he has short hair, but modern-day Klavier has the exact same hair as his older brother. It's implied that the two haven't seen each other for quite a while, so why is the younger brother still copying his older brother's hairstyle? C'mon man, that's lame. Sure, you can argue that it's just lazy design work, but I think it was more to indicate just how much control and influence Kristoph had over Klavier's life despite not even being there for so long. The scars run deep.

Now onto major Dual Destinies spoilers.

This is further evidenced by Klavier's new models. The dude looks dead inside. I really think that the way they animated his face and eyes was a design choice, because he just looks so beaten up by everything he went through last game between his brother being revealed to be completely insane and his bandmate being convicted of murder. One of the coolest things I feel about Dual Destinies is how much it tells us without telling us, such as the inferences that can be gathered from the model.

One other thing it tells us without telling us is that, in the end, Kristoph won. Yes, he was convicted by a panel of Jurists (and yes, I know the reason for the system being introduced and quietly shelved, but bear with me) and yes, he was sentenced, but his absence in Dual Destinies fills the entire game like a dark cloud. A lot of criticism I see Dual Destinies get is that the Dark Age Of The Law seems to come out of nowhere or doesn't make sense but it actually does just not in the way it's immediately presented in-game. Examining the series shows it to be more of a gradual darkening than a sudden storm, with Phoenix's disbarment being the final straw. We've established that in previous conversations, but one thing that people miss is that the events of Apollo Justice only made it worse. Phoenix himself had to actually play by the rules of forged evidence and misdirection that everyone else was playing by in order to get anything up on Kristoph Gavin and by introducing the Jurist System only to use it in an underhanded and subversive manner in the name of justice, he only damaged the public's view of the law even further. Apollo Justice doesn't have a happy ending, no matter how it's presented in-game, and that point's only strengthened further with Dual Destinies. No wonder the Jurist System was tossed out when in its very first use Phoenix basically pulled a "same old poo poo" in the public's eyes.

Furthermore, Dual Destinies shows that his influence is inescapable, not just in the state of the law, but in the people. I've mentioned Klavier, but Apollo himself was so affected by what he went through in the previous game that he resorted to emulating the guy just to try and get some semblance of truth. And if Kristoph influenced him enough that he copied the guy's body language, what else did he teach Apollo?

I could get into the black psyche locks and their meaning at this point but it would extend this giant black block of text even further. I just want to close off by raising the point that there is nothing scarier than a man who believes he is completely right and many of the best villains in the world of fiction by playing to that. Kristoph is no exception. Throughout everything he is a character who works with exact purpose because he knows that everything he is doing is exactly the right thing to do to keep the world exactly how he wants it and that is why he is so fascinating to me. What we see in Apollo Justice is just the tip of a very large iceberg that is never fully laid out to us and may never be.

I apologize for the spergy wall of text and wild and probably off-base theorizing but drat do I love me some Kristoph. If I mixed up my details or wording it's likely due to it being 2AM.

The Unholy Ghost fucked around with this message at 15:48 on Oct 16, 2014

# ? Oct 16, 2014 15:35

Waffleman_: Jan 20, 2011; I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna!!!

SyntheticPolygon posted:

But she wasn't that bad in AJ either. Honestly, she's probably the most developed of the new characters introduced in that game. But I liked that game more than most people, so that just might be me.

The worst part about Trucy is the whole magic panties joke, really.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 15:45

Tired Moritz: Mar 25, 2012; wish Lowtax would get tired of YOUR POSTS

_{_{(n o i c e)}}

Trucy have a nice music theme. Good in my book (and Mr. Hat).

# ? Oct 16, 2014 16:19

Captain Baal: Oct 23, 2010; I Failed At Anime 2022

Trucy and Ema were the best things about Apollo Justice and aside from the dumb panties joke, I'm happy that at least Trucy is still around. Now bring back Ema and you've basically made AJ pointless.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 16:38

Arist: Feb 13, 2012; _{who, me?}

Ema rules, more Ema always.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 17:47

Suspicious Cook: Oct 9, 2012; Onward to burgers!

Ema was AJ's saving grace. Whoever thought Klaiver should have a cameo in DD but not Ema was dumb.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 17:55

ALFbrot: Apr 17, 2002

Suspicious Cook posted:

Ema was AJ's saving grace. Whoever thought Klaiver should have a cameo in DD but not Ema was dumb.

I found him

MattTheDoctor posted:

While I'll admit Apollo Justice has its problems (and I really did love that game) I think that Kristoph is one of the most brilliantly-handled characters in the series. I've mentioned before he's my favorite fictional character of all time and that's because there are layers and layers of subtext to the guy. In a series not really known for much subtext (if you ignore the squeals of the fangirls) that's a big deal. Yes, he's a perfectionist with a law obsession, but he's also prone to fits of rage because of it, and it's implied that his fingers have been in so many cases and so many lives from before the series even started. His motive wasn't just not being able to defend Zak Gramarye, it was his perfect worldview being ruined by that pesky outlier, Phoenix Wright.

One of the most interesting implications is part of the Kristoph/Klavier relationship - or the possible lack thereof. When we see younger Klavier in the flashback case, he has short hair, but modern-day Klavier has the exact same hair as his older brother. It's implied that the two haven't seen each other for quite a while, so why is the younger brother still copying his older brother's hairstyle? C'mon man, that's lame. Sure, you can argue that it's just lazy design work, but I think it was more to indicate just how much control and influence Kristoph had over Klavier's life despite not even being there for so long. The scars run deep.

Now onto major Dual Destinies spoilers.

This is further evidenced by Klavier's new models. The dude looks dead inside. I really think that the way they animated his face and eyes was a design choice, because he just looks so beaten up by everything he went through last game between his brother being revealed to be completely insane and his bandmate being convicted of murder. One of the coolest things I feel about Dual Destinies is how much it tells us without telling us, such as the inferences that can be gathered from the model.

One other thing it tells us without telling us is that, in the end, Kristoph won. Yes, he was convicted by a panel of Jurists (and yes, I know the reason for the system being introduced and quietly shelved, but bear with me) and yes, he was sentenced, but his absence in Dual Destinies fills the entire game like a dark cloud. A lot of criticism I see Dual Destinies get is that the Dark Age Of The Law seems to come out of nowhere or doesn't make sense but it actually does just not in the way it's immediately presented in-game. Examining the series shows it to be more of a gradual darkening than a sudden storm, with Phoenix's disbarment being the final straw. We've established that in previous conversations, but one thing that people miss is that the events of Apollo Justice only made it worse. Phoenix himself had to actually play by the rules of forged evidence and misdirection that everyone else was playing by in order to get anything up on Kristoph Gavin and by introducing the Jurist System only to use it in an underhanded and subversive manner in the name of justice, he only damaged the public's view of the law even further. Apollo Justice doesn't have a happy ending, no matter how it's presented in-game, and that point's only strengthened further with Dual Destinies. No wonder the Jurist System was tossed out when in its very first use Phoenix basically pulled a "same old poo poo" in the public's eyes.

Furthermore, Dual Destinies shows that his influence is inescapable, not just in the state of the law, but in the people. I've mentioned Klavier, but Apollo himself was so affected by what he went through in the previous game that he resorted to emulating the guy just to try and get some semblance of truth. And if Kristoph influenced him enough that he copied the guy's body language, what else did he teach Apollo?

I could get into the black psyche locks and their meaning at this point but it would extend this giant black block of text even further. I just want to close off by raising the point that there is nothing scarier than a man who believes he is completely right and many of the best villains in the world of fiction by playing to that. Kristoph is no exception. Throughout everything he is a character who works with exact purpose because he knows that everything he is doing is exactly the right thing to do to keep the world exactly how he wants it and that is why he is so fascinating to me. What we see in Apollo Justice is just the tip of a very large iceberg that is never fully laid out to us and may never be.

I apologize for the spergy wall of text and wild and probably off-base theorizing but drat do I love me some Kristoph. If I mixed up my details or wording it's likely due to it being 2AM.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 17:58

Iceclaw: Nov 4, 2009; Fa la lanky down dilly, motherfuckers.

I didn't really liked Ema in AJ. The "Bitter, jaded woman stuck in a job she hates" persona is a bit too much spot on. especially when you get to do forensic things and she briefly go back to being perky.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 22:02

Austrian mook: Feb 24, 2013; by Shine

Please stop posting the insanely Games wall of text.

# ? Oct 16, 2014 22:26

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# ? Jun 10, 2024 09:18

TheKingofSprings: Oct 9, 2012

Iceclaw posted:

I didn't really liked Ema in AJ. The "Bitter, jaded woman stuck in a job she hates" persona is a bit too much spot on. especially when you get to do forensic things and she briefly go back to being perky.

It would be nice to have her in a case with Phoenix if he's going to be playable again, I feel like that would be interesting.

Man the MASON system pisses me off with it Phoenix having a shitload of information he couldn't have known at certain points. Did he know after his hearing with the bar association that Gavin set him up?

# ? Oct 17, 2014 01:28

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Ace Attorney: Dual Destinies - Wild Accusations and Unabashed Bluffing

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