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Radish posted:Said by the person creating the world where these bad things happen and then the justice system claims were handled responsibly. Because it's the price we pay to be the freest country in the world. Didn't you just say so?
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Oct 16, 2014 16:29
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KernelSlanders posted:Because it's the price we pay to be the freest country in the world. Didn't you just say so? 
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Oct 16, 2014 16:39
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KernelSlanders posted:Because it's the price we pay to be the freest country in the world. Didn't you just say so? Yes he's free to be put in a cage In Harlem in New York City. And he's free to be put in a cage on the South-Side of Chicago, And the West-Side. And he's free to be put in a cage in Hough in Cleveland. And he's free to be put in a cage in East St. Louis. And he's free to be put in a cage in Fillmore in San Francisco. And he's free to be put in a cage in Roxbury in Boston. Maybe more for the Mike Brown thread, but it seemed apropos.
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Oct 16, 2014 21:49
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SedanChair posted:How fuckin' splendid, 900K in hospital bills. I knew about this, but the pictures, holy gently caress. Have we no shame?
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Oct 17, 2014 01:30
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Pohl posted:I knew about this, but the pictures, holy gently caress. It's the price we pay to be numero uno.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:35
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:It's the price we pay to be numero uno. Well by "we pay", we really mean, "we make those people pay"
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Oct 17, 2014 04:10
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In less depressing news, the officer in Williamsport who killed a guy by t-boning his car while going 110 in a residential zone got fired last night. 
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Oct 17, 2014 13:18
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Kitfox88 posted:In less depressing news, the officer in Williamsport who killed a guy by t-boning his car while going 110 in a residential zone got fired last night. Yay, a man who at the very least should have been charged with manslaughter has instead been fired from his job(but not barred from applying to other PDs)
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Oct 17, 2014 14:20
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Baby steps, dude. The expected outcome is something along the lines of him getting a paid vacation, so it's fine to be happy that he got fired.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:12
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ChairMaster posted:Baby steps, dude. The expected outcome is something along the lines of him getting a paid vacation, so it's fine to be happy that he got fired. Baby steps! 
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Oct 17, 2014 16:14
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ChairMaster posted:Baby steps, dude. The expected outcome is something along the lines of him getting a paid vacation, so it's fine to be happy that he got fired. Yea you're right.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:40
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I am really looking forward to how Rent-A-Cop and Vahakyla respond to this.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:17
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http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2014/october/agent-exposes-civil-rights-crimes-in-alabama-prison FBI Investigating civil rights abuses in Alabama Prison. "An investigator from Alabama’s State Bureau of Investigation thought the stories didn’t add up and called the FBI, which investigates cases of abuse of authority—or color of law—and other civil rights violations." The target of the FBI investigation, Lt. Michael Smith, 38, of Auburn was convicted of violating Mack's constitutional rights by fatally beating him, conspiracy and obstruction of justice. He faces up to life in prison. "Two other former officers at the Ventress Correctional Facility in Clayton — Scottie Glenn and Matthew Davidson — have pleaded guilty and are awaiting sentencing. Another former officer, Joseph Sanders, is scheduled for trial" http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ex-supervisor-found-guilty-ala-inmate-death And later, "MONTGOMERY, Alabama (AP) — A former prison supervisor received a 30-year sentence Monday and three former guards got lesser sentences for their roles in the fatal beating of an inmate or the cover-up that followed." Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 21:21
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Vahakyla posted:
He's gonna be real famous at whatever prison they send him to. I'm very happy this is happening to him.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:19
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:He's gonna be real famous at whatever prison they send him to. I'm very happy this is happening to him. I'm not sure if retaliation violence is the most reasonable police reform, though. No one should be afraid in a prison. You are happy that the same thing is going to happen to him that he did to others. Of which you are mad about. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 22:28
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Vahakyla posted:I'm not sure if retaliation violence is the most reasonable police reform, though. No one should be afraid in a prison. You are happy that the same thing is going to happen to him that he did to others. Of which you are mad about. Maybe if there was a realistic concern that violent police officers would get treated like we treat violent criminals, police officers might either: Be less violent or Treat violent criminals better Police shouldn't be the only group that have an understanding and humane justice system and the fact they get better treatment than anyone else reinforces the us/them mentality that creates abuse and corruption.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:36
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So, the fear of violence will make our society better, just as it made it in the antiquity, the medieval times and just like black people learned to be proper? So not only is 30 years in prison enough, but we have to beat him? Yes. I'm sure that if people will just face serious violence, they will cease to be violent. You loving psychopath.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:37
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Vahakyla posted:So, the fear of violence will make our society better, just as it made it in the antiquity, the medieval times and just like black people learned to be proper? Great job missing the point and bringing up random strawmen. I'm saying that if police got treated the way police treat everyone else, the police might realize they shouldn't treat everyone like poo poo. edit: if I'm a sociopath for thinking this, what does that make all the police officers who think they need to maintain control and authority over their interactions with the public to prevent people disobeying their orders?
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Oct 17, 2014 22:40
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Trabisnikof posted:Great job missing the point and bringing up random strawmen. I'm saying that if police got treated the way police treat everyone else, the police might realize they shouldn't treat everyone like poo poo. Hence why we should bully school bullies. And why we beat violent kids. And steal from thieves. Whatever the abusive cops are, do you want to be like them? Is modeling yourself after those you despise a good way? Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 22:40
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Trabisnikof posted:Great job missing the point and bringing up random strawmen. I'm saying that if police got treated the way police treat everyone else, the police might realize they shouldn't treat everyone like poo poo. Why? Does this work in any other cases? Edit: If rapists got treated the way rapists treat their victims, rapists might realize they shouldn't rape people. This is the logic that makes our system lovely.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:43
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Vahakyla posted:Hence why we should bully school bullies. And why we beat violent kids. I was unaware that bullies were in charge of school discipline. Also I like how whenever police getting the same punishment as everyone else, people start talking about how immature, childish and unable to control themselves the police are. How the gently caress are police like bullies? Why the gently caress are you defending police by comparing them to emotionally disturbed children? Once again, the police get special treatment and understanding, but you'd never hear this same poo poo when the police are the ones beating and killing literal children.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:44
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Obdicut posted:Why? Does this work in any other cases? Rapists aren't authority figures. Police live in a bubble about how the criminal justice system serves, that bubble directly impacts the way they enforce this justice system on the general public. The fact that a cop knows he can kill someone, unjustified, and be 90% sure of never getting charged with murder and if he's charged he'll get a reduced plea deal or maybe beat the charge in court. The fact that if I placed someone in a chokehold I would get a worse punishment than if a police officer does it, undoubtably influences the use of force. Why do you think giving police special treatment would make the police less abusive?
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Oct 17, 2014 22:47
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Trabisnikof posted:Rapists aren't authority figures. Police live in a bubble about how the criminal justice system serves, that bubble directly impacts the way they enforce this justice system on the general public. So special treatment TYOOL 2014 In loving America is to have the right to "be not severely beaten while under custody"?
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Oct 17, 2014 22:48
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I think it's less about the fact that he will get a beating and more schadenfreude with respect to him being on the other side of the baton. He gets to experience the shittastic prison conditions that he and his ilk created.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:51
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Trabisnikof posted:Rapists aren't authority figures. Why does this matter for what you're saying? quote:The fact that a cop knows he can kill someone, unjustified, and be 90% sure of never getting charged with murder and if he's charged he'll get a reduced plea deal or maybe beat the charge in court. The fact that if I placed someone in a chokehold I would get a worse punishment than if a police officer does it, undoubtably influences the use of force. Yeah. These are problems with the conviction of cops. What you and Tight Booty Madman are being castigated for is for wanting them to, after being convicted, get tuned up and raped. Being happy about it. WEirdly, though, at least TBS understands that after conviction these cops aren't going to get any sort of special treatment, you apparently think they will for some reason. quote:Why do you think giving police special treatment would make the police less abusive? I don't, nothing I've said in any way amounts to that. Why do you argue so badly? Do you not understand what you're actually being criticized for here? peengers posted:I think it's less about the fact that he will get a beating and more schadenfreude with respect to him being on the other side of the baton. He gets to experience the shittastic prison conditions that he and his ilk created. Police did not create our prison conditions.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:52
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peengers posted:I think it's less about the fact that he will get a beating and more schadenfreude with respect to him being on the other side of the baton. He gets to experience the shittastic prison conditions that he and his ilk created. So what you say that this is retribution and bloodlust, both very civil and progressive things.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:52
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I say bring back decimation. Any crime a cop is convicted of, 1 in 10 of his precinct mates suffers the same fate. Put the fear of god back into them.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:56
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Vahakyla posted:So special treatment TYOOL 2014 In loving America is to have the right to "be not severely beaten while under custody"? Pretty much, yeah. That would be special treatment.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:58
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Obdicut posted:Police did not create our prison conditions. Good thing that he's a former prison supervisor then. I think those guys might have something to do with creating those sorts of conditions. On a positive note, maybe he will be transformed by his prison experience and come out as an advocate for prison reform.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:01
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Vahakyla posted:So what you say that this is retribution and bloodlust, both very civil and progressive things. No, its schadenfreude.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:03
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peengers posted:No, its schadenfreude. All these are the foundation stones of american public policy. GG.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:05
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peengers posted:Good thing that he's a former prison supervisor then. I think those guys might have something to do with creating those sorts of conditions. Not a hell of a lot, though. The way our prisons are is the result of laws that our duly-elected legislators have passed. They've passed these laws in responses to various moral panics, racism, special interests, etc. Our horrible prison system hasn't been enforced on an unwilling America, it's been voted for.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:08
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Obdicut posted:Why does this matter for what you're saying? Because the police are instrumental to the criminal justice system and often set the framework by which their fellow citizens will be treated. Take Kalief Browder for example. When he was 16, he was accused of robbing someone and even without any evidence of stolen goods in his possession he was arrested. quote:The officers searched him and his friend but found nothing. As Browder recalls, one of the officers walked back to his car, where the alleged victim was, and returned with a new story: the man said that they had robbed him not that night but two weeks earlier. The police handcuffed the teens and pressed them into the back of a squad car. “What am I being charged for?” Browder asked. “I didn’t do anything!” He remembers an officer telling them, “We’re just going to take you to the precinct. Most likely you can go home.” Browder whispered to his friend, “Are you sure you didn’t do anything?” His friend insisted that he hadn’t. Kalief Browder then spent the next 3 years in Rikers awaiting trial for charges that were eventually dismissed. Did the arresting officer know that would happen? Of course not. But you also know that an NYPD officer charged with DUI/DWI following a crash wouldn't spend 2 days in Rikers. Obdicut posted:Yeah. These are problems with the conviction of cops. What you and Tight Booty Madman are being castigated for is for wanting them to, after being convicted, get tuned up and raped. Being happy about it. I never said poo poo about being happy about them getting raped or injured in prison. All I said, is that it good that police get the same treatment as everyone else. Yes the US prison system is brutal, but just because the police/rich can get themselves off doesn't mean I think its good that they can. Obdicut posted:Police did not create our prison conditions. Police absolutely do contribute to them. Aggressive arresting, charging, and write-ups help to land people longer sentences all the time. Every cop busting crackheads for possession of paraphernalia is worsening our prison conditions.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:08
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I'm sure all your points will vanish from the sands of time if we just beat some people a bit more.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:10
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Trabisnikof posted:Because the police are instrumental to the criminal justice system and often set the framework by which their fellow citizens will be treated. Take Kalief Browder for example. When he was 16, he was accused of robbing someone and even without any evidence of stolen goods in his possession he was arrested. What does this have to do with anything? quote:
No, you said that you thought that it would help change their minds if they got that treatment, remember? quote:Police absolutely do contribute to them. Aggressive arresting, charging, and write-ups help to land people longer sentences all the time. Every cop busting crackheads for possession of paraphernalia is worsening our prison conditions. And why do cops bust crackheads for possession? Because they are horrible people who came up with this idea, or because we have stupid horrible laws that we passed and told the cops to enforce?
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Oct 17, 2014 23:12
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Obdicut posted:What does this have to do with anything? I'm saying that if police, as enforcers of the law and as a group, have a vastly different and more positive interaction with the justice system than most other groups, they will make judgements based on their experience, shared stories, and cultural expectations based on that vastly different interaction with the justice system. Police are the beginning of a long process and their understanding of that process can impact their decisions. (e.g. When deciding if to arrest or ticket a kid, their expectations of what the experience in jail would be like will factor into this decision, conscious or not. ) Obdicut posted:And why do cops bust crackheads for possession? Because they are horrible people who came up with this idea, or because we have stupid horrible laws that we passed and told the cops to enforce? You're incredibly naive if you think that police enforce crimes 100% like robots. Police likewise have tons of discretion about how they write their reports, what is ticket-able versus arrest-able etc etc.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:19
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I honestly cannot believe some goons. I was expressing my approval for the rare just sentence, and people tell me I shouldn't be happy the cop is going to prison.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:19
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Don't feel bad. This is the ACAB thread. Where everyone is a racist and everyone else just wants to argue with them.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:29
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Tight Booty Shorts posted:I honestly cannot believe some goons. I was expressing my approval for the rare just sentence, and people tell me I shouldn't be happy the cop is going to prison. Yeah, sure. quote:He's gonna be real famous at whatever prison they send him to. I'm very happy this is happening to him. Can't you stick to just making GBS threads up the GMO thread? Trabisnikof posted:I'm saying that if police, as enforcers of the law and as a group, have a vastly different and more positive interaction with the justice system than most other groups, they will make judgements based on their experience, shared stories, and cultural expectations based on that vastly different interaction with the justice system. Police are the beginning of a long process and their understanding of that process can impact their decisions. (e.g. When deciding if to arrest or ticket a kid, their expectations of what the experience in jail would be like will factor into this decision, conscious or not. ) If police were arrested for crimes they committed but nothing else about our justice system would change, the police would probably break down, yeah, but first of all you're describing an impossibility, and second of all it wouldn't actually solve anything. It'd actually probably lead to more corruption. quote:You're incredibly naive if you think that police enforce crimes 100% like robots. Police likewise have tons of discretion about how they write their reports, what is ticket-able versus arrest-able etc etc. I don't. I think that there are factors that influence the decisions police make, and that they aren't the creators of these factors. But never mind, this is the same stupid poo poo as always, appraoching the problem completely assbackwards and getting a hard on for punishing cops without addressing the actual underlying problem of the system.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:29
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Obdicut posted:If police were arrested for crimes they committed but nothing else about our justice system would change, the police would probably break down, yeah, but first of all you're describing an impossibility, and second of all it wouldn't actually solve anything. It'd actually probably lead to more corruption. You seriously think that arresting police for crimes they commit would be more corrupt than the current system where police give each other better treatment? I actually don't think the police would "break down" if they were treated more like regular citizens by the justice system, instead they might be a little more understanding of their fellow citizens when they are in a position of extreme power over their fellow citizen's future.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:41
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