|
Having seen a bunch of LPs of HoTDQ, is smashing dragon eggs the new killing orc babies?
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 15:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
What was the old killing orc babies?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 15:24
|
|
|
On stuff to give Fighters, I was looking through the Rules Cyclopedia and some of the weapon specialization abilities were pretty cool. Delay would make the target go last in initiative on the next round (and potentially getting hit by Delay again). Deflect let the Fighter make a saving throw to completely avoid a melee or ranged attack 1/2/3/4 times per round. Hook would knock down the target, but the game elaborated on it enough to say that it meant +4 to-hit when attacking the knocked-down target, and the target would have -4 AC and -2 to saving throws, until it got up Skewer would immobilize a (large-sized) target for 1d4+4 rounds and deal 1d6 damage per round Stun would take effect on a failed save and prevent a target from moving, attacking or casting spells and give it -2 AC and saving throws for every round that it fails to be make a saving throw, but it could get stunned again by another attack the next round anyway Of the rest, Double Damage (but with a threat range of 17,18,19,20) and Second Attack were not as mechanically interesting, Set Spear and Charge are one-shot abilities, Entangle looks like a wash because the Fighter needs to maintain it, and Disarm is already a Battlemaster thing.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 15:44
|
|
|
Boing posted:What was the old killing orc babies? You are an adventurer! Orcs are ambushing merchants and farmers in the pass and you've been hired to stop them! After several skirmishes with smaller warbands you make your way to the main encampment and successfully wipe out the warriors! But, thing is that for any given number of warriors there's usually an equal or larger number of noncombatants such as cooks or smiths, plus members of the community that are too old or too young to fight- ranging youths who haven't finished basic training all the way down to infants. What do you do? "Kill everyone" is not an uncommon answer, especially if you subscribe to the idea that orcs are inherently evil and thus any orc babies will thus only grow up into evil orc adults who would then cause more trouble. While alignment is supposed to serve as a way to get past the ethical ramifications of slaughtering everyone you meet by simply stating that they deserved it, some people get really uncomfortable with the idea of exterminating a race down to the last child out of a belief in the worthless nature of the race.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 15:59
|
|
|
Don't forget Despair stuff, which forced morale checks once they see how awesome you are.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:00
|
|
|
Oh I thought there'd have been some mechanic where orc babies give an equivalent XP reward to orc non-babies. Because in HotDQ leaving the eggs lying around gets you nothing while slaughtering dragon embryos lets you swim in that sweet sweet XP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:08
|
|
|
Boing posted:Oh I thought there'd have been some mechanic where orc babies give an equivalent XP reward to orc non-babies. Because in HotDQ leaving the eggs lying around gets you nothing while slaughtering dragon embryos lets you swim in that sweet sweet XP.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:11
|
|
|
Didn't Zak say if you aren't killing orc babies, you aren't playing OSR? Seriously gently caress that guy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
ascendance posted:Didn't Zak say if you aren't killing orc babies, you aren't playing OSR? Basically, yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:18
|
|
|
S.J. posted:Basically, yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
My OSR (and my D&D 5) does not include a complete rejection of moral questions in the pursuit of escapism.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
It's kind of confusing because if you were going to design a pure evil species why would it have an extended infancy stage? Babies are weak and require tons of attention and nurturing- nature has so many other ways to reproduce that don't involve spending years cleaning up after poop.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:32
|
|
|
LightWarden posted:It's kind of confusing because if you were going to design a pure evil species why would it have an extended infancy stage? Babies are weak and require tons of attention and nurturing- nature has so many other ways to reproduce that don't involve spending years cleaning up after poop. Like the lizard men, who finally get described in The Dark Defiles. They just pop out of giant rafts of organic matter, ready and raring to go murder.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
LightWarden posted:It's kind of confusing because if you were going to design a pure evil species why would it have an extended infancy stage? Babies are weak and require tons of attention and nurturing- nature has so many other ways to reproduce that don't involve spending years cleaning up after poop.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
Power Player posted:I was also upset with the part in the Hoard of the Dragon Queen where if you don't murder a sleeping man he yells and alerts everyone to your presence Can you not just declare him unconscious when you reduce him to 0 HP?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:40
|
|
|
Gort posted:Can you not just declare him unconscious when you reduce him to 0 HP? I couldn't find anything in the PHB about subdual damage, and knocking him unconscious at 0 HP can still cause death if he fails his 3 saving throws
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:50
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I couldn't find anything in the PHB about subdual damage, and knocking him unconscious at 0 HP can still cause death if he fails his 3 saving throws "Knocking a creature out," page 198.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:52
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:I couldn't find anything in the PHB about subdual damage, and knocking him unconscious at 0 HP can still cause death if he fails his 3 saving throws "Knocking a creature out" says that the creature falls unconscious and is stable. Stable creatures don't make death saving throws. A stable creature regains 1 HP after 1d4 hours.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
LightWarden posted:"Knocking a creature out" says that the creature falls unconscious and is stable. Stable creatures don't make death saving throws. A stable creature regains 1 HP after 1d4 hours. Thanks. I figured I was just missing something.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
No problem, it's a confusing segment that I had to check a few times.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
LightWarden posted:"Knocking a creature out" says that the creature falls unconscious and is stable. Stable creatures don't make death saving throws. A stable creature regains 1 HP after 1d4 hours. Time to fire up Use Rope!
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
ascendance posted:Didn't Zak say if you aren't killing orc babies, you aren't playing OSR? More or less yea there's a whole lot of reasons people mock the 'murder hobo' aspects of D&D and for some reason a lot of dudes go 'yea those were the best right'.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
Gort posted:Can you not just declare him unconscious when you reduce him to 0 HP? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 17:51
|
|
|
More notes after last night: The Paladin was dealing way more damage than the fighter, because big monsters still have low AC, and he can swap +5 on his attack rolls for 10 on his damage rolls. He was consistently dealing 20-25 damage per hit. The fighter's defend ability worked out really well for the paladin. It removed the big bad's advantage, then gave the smaller bads disadvantage. A pretty nifty ability, even if it meant the fighter essentially became a support character. Fighters have always been lame an uninteresting to me; 5th ed did them no favors.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:24
|
|
|
The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. http://dungeonsmaster.com/2011/01/kill-fighters/
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:41
|
|
|
Speaking of HODQ, our paladin finally got his revenge on the half-dragon that kicked his rear end the first time - by hitting him for 67 damage (at level 3!) with a divination portent crit, smite and great weapon master. Nasty.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:44
|
|
|
ascendance posted:The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. Has this been posted to grognards.txt yet? Jesus loving Christ.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:51
|
|
|
ascendance posted:The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. I really hate how MMO-like 4E Fighters are, what with their ability to present a monster with a perfectly rational choice between attacking the Fighter or the Wizard. Good thing 5E brings us back to reality with the Battlemaster's Goading Strike
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:54
|
|
|
Glukeose posted:Has this been posted to grognards.txt yet? Jesus loving Christ. There is no grogs.txt anymore. Imp Zone found it and it was gone the next day.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
The Bee posted:There is no grogs.txt anymore. Imp Zone found it and it was gone the next day. I'd say that's a terrible loss for this board but I was taught not to lie.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
It's also from 2011? I mean, it's a great example of what 4E faces each time it's brought up, but it's not really new is it?
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:14
|
|
|
ascendance posted:The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. Holy poo poo this is the best. I was that Fighter. I love being that Fighter. Fighter supremacy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
It's an old article that gets a few important mechanics wrong and doesn't really know what it's talking about, it's not very relevant.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:20
|
|
|
ascendance posted:The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. I can honestly say I feel stupider for having read that.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:24
|
|
|
I will add, that after linking that, I realized I knew a bunch of those people and played a lot of 4e with them. They were all hardcore 4e players back in 2011, and were heavily involved in the local RPGA scene.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Generic Octopus posted:It's an old article that gets a few important mechanics wrong and doesn't really know what it's talking about, it's not very relevant. IMHO the sentiment, "we lost old D&D customers to PF and other 4e reactionary impulses, we have to get them back!" is entirely misguided (though I don't know how true that really is). Either way, just let them go. They won't go far, anyway, they're already invested in the hobby and that's the largest hurdle. Wizards has the brand, they have considerably deeper pockets. They should focus on grabbing new markets and capture another generation of gamers instead of engaging in the game of pandering with a competitor whose whole shtick is "We're just gonna stick with tweaking a 10+ year old game design and engender a sense of gamer supremacy in our customer base to milk them as long as we can". The children of my gaming group were way too little to remember any details about the good old days when their mom & dad were having friends over to play some 3.X, but now? They're getting into gaming, and the little one-off premade adventures they use are really ingeniously designed, and while they might be a little too young still for a full on system, in a couple years they won't be and D&D is going to look old and busted compared to small-brand competitors. Bhaal fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Oct 17, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 19:45
|
|
|
gradenko_2000 posted:On stuff to give Fighters, I was looking through the Rules Cyclopedia and some of the weapon specialization abilities were pretty cool. I really miss these things from classic, and wish they would make a comeback in some form. They really would give the fighter that extra edge they need.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 21:08
|
|
|
ascendance posted:The creators of 5e might have read this blog post. This guy should really kill he's famil. Seriously though, that's the dumbest thing I've read all day, and I follow politics.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
Talmonis posted:I really miss these things from classic, and wish they would make a comeback in some form. They really would give the fighter that extra edge they need. Bhaal posted:Misguided as it may be, it is representative of the id inside the massive grognard backlash that hosed with the optics of 4e as a system, and prevented 5e from being yet another revolution of D&D design (which both 4e and 3.0 definitely were). Instead of compiling what they've learned and taking bold steps forward, they only got to take a few of those steps and diverted a large part of their effort into explicitly disposing, replacing and hamstringing some of the better ideas 4e had for no good reason other than as a defense mechanism against the same public rants like the one above. What we're left with is a distinct iteration on 3.X instead of an actual new edition.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 21:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 02:56 |
|
|
Another option for making the fighter stickier is a class feature that lets them occupy a larger space than they already get from their size. So you occupy a 10x10 space instead of 5x5; even in the absence of any movement-blocking powers or higher number of OAs, that stops an infinite number of enemies coming at the group down a 10' wide hallway (even if the fighter gets proned, if you were to get really cheesy with the rules). You'd have to work the terrain to your advantage if that was all you had going for you, but it might be a really simple thing to tack on.
|
|
#
?
Oct 17, 2014 22:00
|
|