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Drifter posted:poo poo, I thought this was the Gotham thread. gently caress me. Pretend I posted this there. Well, I can't argue with that.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:21
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 03:18 |
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Drifter posted:poo poo, I thought this was the Gotham thread. gently caress me. Pretend I posted this there. After the last two pages, it's hard to blame you, honestly.
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Oct 17, 2014 01:44
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I'm really late to this show and thread, I just watched the first two episodes last night. My biggest concern was how The Flash's superspeed would look, and it looks drat good. I'm excited about this show.
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Oct 17, 2014 02:08
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I think the Flash, like Arrow, is pretty good with the banter. Lots of fun lines between Jesse L Martin and Grant Gustin. But the expositional "gotta move the plot along" dialogue is... not good.
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Oct 17, 2014 04:50
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Narcissus1916 posted:I think the Flash, like Arrow, is pretty good with the banter. Lots of fun lines between Jesse L Martin and Grant Gustin. Yeah that's a necessary evil but it's not done particularly well. I also thought the scene with Barry super speed talking at Iris so she couldn't hear him was pretty cringe-worthy and awful, as was the scene where he is yelling at his non-dad about how he has to be a hero or whatever. I know they have to have that garbage in the show but it would be nice if they move past it all fairly quickly from now on which it seems like they might, just judging from this ep. Also hopefully the cliche and boring Iris is investigating the blur thing won't drag down the show too much.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:24
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Much like next week's villain, Gotham discussion is a poison that kills everything it touches.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:28
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I'm really enjoying this so far, it seems to have found the right tone far faster than Arrow did. A lot of the exposition is indeed really rough, but that's balanced out by just how loving fun the show is. And drat if both final scenes haven't had me ready for the next episode to get here right now.
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Oct 17, 2014 05:50
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Wandle Cax posted:Also hopefully the cliche and boring Iris is investigating the blur thing won't drag down the show too much. I love this show so much that I'm not even feeling the negative things, but if I *HAD* to pick something else out to be upset about, this would be it. I think it is mostly because it reminds me of Smallville. I hope it isn't a long term plot.
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Oct 17, 2014 06:03
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One thing that I honestly hope happens at the end of this season is that Barry just pulls and Iron Man on everybody and says "Screw it, this secret identity stuff is more trouble than it's worth." and just come out about being The Flash.
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Oct 17, 2014 06:59
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David D. Davidson posted:One thing that I honestly hope happens at the end of this season is that Barry just pulls and Iron Man on everybody and says "Screw it, this secret identity stuff is more trouble than it's worth." and just come out about being The Flash. Iron Man has got lawyers to handle details though.
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Oct 17, 2014 07:01
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Soylentbits posted:Iron Man has got lawyers to handle details though. That's true, but there's a different tone to Flash's unmasking. Unlike an invincible paragon with a power for every situation like Superman or a dark avenger cloaked in myth and superstition like Batman, everything the Flash can do boils down to just one power, and the power is simply an augmentation of a regular human ability. That combined with the less overtly malicious tone of most of his villains gives him a different relationship with his home city. People in his city see him as a working-class hero, a protector who lives and works among them, and eventually he felt that there was no longer a need to hide from the people who love and respect him. Note that I never said which Flash I was talking about? That's because all of this was relevant to Wally West, the third Flash, Barry Allen's sidekick and successor. But the TV show has mixed more than a little of Wally into their version of Barry, so it wouldn't really surprise me if this aspect was developed down the line.
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Oct 17, 2014 07:42
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People knowing he's the Flash would torpedo his CSI career though.
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Oct 17, 2014 07:47
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Am I the only one that thinks Iris is a wonderful, really strong character being supported by really good portrayal? Yeah, a lot of the relationship angst from Barry towards her is painful and I can't wait to see it end, but that's not a flaw of Iris as a character. If anything, it's a flaw of Barry's character. She's not the one constantly showing frustrating, bad behavior, he is. She's fun and strong and smart - the way she immediately knew poo poo was up with Barry and wasn't gonna take any bullshit from him was great. Her Flash investigation storyline could get old fast, but it's only been like 10 or 20 minutes long so far, give it some time. This show's been moving at a breakneck speed. Give it an episode or two to let that plotline run its course.
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Oct 17, 2014 08:37
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Iris is unfortunately a character in a CW show so she's obviously dating the wrong guy, ignoring Barry's obvious feelings for her and will get furious every time she finds out he was lying to her. Barry will be angsty and depressed about having to keep secrets and hide his true self. They'll finally get together then two episodes later he will get told that she isn't safe if they are together and instead of just telling her that he will purposely torpedo the relationship. She will also be kidnapped about 80 times. Edit: 
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Oct 17, 2014 09:06
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Pwnstar posted:Iris is unfortunately a character in a CW show so she's obviously dating the wrong guy, ignoring Barry's obvious feelings for her and will get furious every time she finds out he was lying to her. Barry will be angsty and depressed about having to keep secrets and hide his true self. They'll finally get together then two episodes later he will get told that she isn't safe if they are together and instead of just telling her that he will purposely torpedo the relationship. She will also be kidnapped about 80 times. I think I just found a drinking game.
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Oct 17, 2014 09:20
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XboxPants posted:Am I the only one that thinks Iris is a wonderful, really strong character being supported by really good portrayal? Yeah, a lot of the relationship angst from Barry towards her is painful and I can't wait to see it end, but that's not a flaw of Iris as a character. If anything, it's a flaw of Barry's character. She's not the one constantly showing frustrating, bad behavior, he is. No, I like Iris a whole bunch for pretty much the same reasons as you do and have just been rolling my eyes at the goons singling out the only black woman with a speaking role as the weakest link for ~reasons~ ("she's doing journalism, that's dumb!" "she's not letting barry bang her, that's dumb!" "her boyfriend's too smugsome, that's dumb!") even though we have had all of 2 episodes to watch. MLKQUOTEMACHINE fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 09:21
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If Iris and Barry are gonna bang they really need to stop playing up the whole "we're practically siblings" thing. poo poo's nasty.
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Oct 17, 2014 09:54
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You don't say.
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Oct 17, 2014 10:01
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nutranurse posted:No, I like Iris a whole bunch for pretty much the same reasons as you do and have just been rolling my eyes at the goons singling out the only black woman with a speaking role as the weakest link for ~reasons~ ("she's doing journalism, that's dumb!" "she's not letting barry bang her, that's dumb!" "her boyfriend's too smugsome, that's dumb!") even though we have had all of 2 episodes to watch. Iris is clearly the weakest link on the show and it's not because she's a black woman you dumb dork.
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Oct 17, 2014 10:08
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dordreff posted:If Iris and Barry are gonna bang they really need to stop playing up the whole "we're practically siblings" thing. poo poo's nasty. Getting flash banged would be interesting. Brings new meaning to the term 'quickie'.
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Oct 17, 2014 10:37
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Wandle Cax posted:Iris is clearly the weakest link on the show and it's not because she's a black woman you dumb dork. Well she's only the weakest link if you ignore all the characterization they've done for her, depicting her as a smart, capable woman who is easily Barry's best (seemingly only, pre-superpowers) friend and closest confidant (I really enjoyed that super-speed confession Barry gave last episode), and it's killing Barry to be forced to lie to someone so important to him. She has interests and passions of her own (though they're downplayed in lieu of us seeing things from Barry's pov) and we can probably assume that she'll become more of her own character as the show goes on. You know, I would be more inclined to agree with those calling Iris a weak link if they called the writers out on making Iris so tightly bound to the men in her life (only one poster previous touched on this and their post was glossed over), because at nearly every point we see her develop over the past 2 episodes its been defining her via a man (e.g., begging Barry for help (all the goddamned time), shacking up with Cpt. Smugsome McGoodbutt, becoming interested in journalism in order to track down the Flash/Barry), but that's not been the case. What's been said has been in the vein of: Mr Beens posted:Liking the show, but cannot stand the "sister" and the things around her: Really thin criticisms—which we're lobbing at the only black woman with a speaking role—that come short of saying something more beyond: jng2058 posted:Iris represents the price we pay for having the show on CW. Luckily it's maybe 10% of the show and easily dismissed. Petty expressions of dislike and dismissal. Again, lobbed primarily at the only black woman with a speaking role. 
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Oct 17, 2014 10:40
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I do t think they've been depicting her as that smart or capable. For instance having only one copy of her dissertation, or not doing any research on a topic she was going to cover, instead telling Barry he's supposed to just explain it to her, and when she fails to get a quite saying "Oh well I'll just make one up". The vibe I got in the last episode was she kept getting mad at Barry partly for being absent, but also partly for not doing her homework.
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Oct 17, 2014 11:26
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greatn posted:I do t think they've been depicting her as that smart or capable. For instance having only one copy of her dissertation, or not doing any research on a topic she was going to cover, instead telling Barry he's supposed to just explain it to her, and when she fails to get a quite saying "Oh well I'll just make one up". Those are good points. When I said smart/capable, I was referring to her being a doctoral (??) candidate (grad student?), but she really does seem lackadaisical about the whole school thing outside her chosen discipline. Relying on Barry pretty heavily undercuts some of her (intellectual) agency, but when we were introduced to the scenario it was made pretty clear that she only took a journalism elective at Barry's recommendation (and alternatively explicit and implicit promises are made by Barry's that he'll help her with the science articles). But that stops once The Red Streak starts doing his thing and I'd argue that she's only just now allowing herself to be invested enough in journalism to treat it with something approaching intellectual rigor. As for being dumb enough to have only one copy of her dissertation? Yeah that's a pretty bad mistake (I've been there though,  ).
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Oct 17, 2014 11:57
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She'll probably be a character with more and better agency in a few episodes at least, after they feel Barry's been fleshed out enough.
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Oct 17, 2014 13:38
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The Lord Bude posted:Getting flash banged would be interesting. Brings new meaning to the term 'quickie'. Leaves you blinded for a few minutes after.
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Oct 17, 2014 13:41
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nutranurse posted:Those are good points. When I said smart/capable, I was referring to her being a doctoral (??) candidate (grad student?), but she really does seem lackadaisical about the whole school thing outside her chosen discipline. Relying on Barry pretty heavily undercuts some of her (intellectual) agency, but when we were introduced to the scenario it was made pretty clear that she only took a journalism elective at Barry's recommendation (and alternatively explicit and implicit promises are made by Barry's that he'll help her with the science articles). But that stops once The Red Streak starts doing his thing and I'd argue that she's only just now allowing herself to be invested enough in journalism to treat it with something approaching intellectual rigor. Yeah, they haven't really been depicting Iris as smart or capable at all - in fact it's been so much the opposite that your annoyance is probably better directed at the show's writers. Simply being a grad student doesn't really say much about her intelligence or capability, especially given her reliance on Barry to explain things for her and help her generate ideas. She was literally going to fabricate a quote for her article, IIRC. Also, she knows Barry really well, except she can't tell he's in love with her and in pain when she kisses on Other Guy right in front of him. Standard love triangle poo poo I know, but it doesn't do her character any favors. I don't say this to totally blast the show - it's still a CW show and despite the sometimes cheesy lines and romantic subplots that come with that, I've found it really entertaining, but as someone who craves good black characters on TV, I've been frustrated with how they've done Iris myself. I have enjoyed the relationship between Joe and Barry, though, especially now that Joe knows what's up.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:06
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nutranurse posted:Petty expressions of dislike and dismissal. Again, lobbed primarily at the only black woman with a speaking role. Hmm. Let me think about that petty expression of dislike you lobbed. Point One: gently caress you. Point Two: Color and gender don't matter to me. It's the way the relationship (or lack thereof) is portrayed that that annoys me. But hey, if it makes you feel superior to go around calling everyone who dislikes that setup sexist racists, then I refer you back to Point One.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:28
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Writing aside, Candace Patton has great line delivery and I really like her as an actress based on what I've seen so far. I hope they find more to do with her. I'm a bit worried, because unlike Laurel, Iris doesn't have a kickass crime-fighting destiny (I don't think). Even through the doldrums of the Arrow thread, we always knew that Laurel would one day be Black Canary, and we held onto that hope. Comics nerds, what do we have to look forward to with Iris?
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Oct 17, 2014 14:33
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Spergatory posted:Even through the doldrums of the Arrow thread, we always knew that Laurel would one day be Black Canary, and we held onto that hope. What thread have you been reading? Are we talking about the same thread that dubbed Katie Cassidy "Dorito Face" and repeatedly wished for Laurel's death in favour of Caity Lotz being Canary?
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Oct 17, 2014 14:38
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Spergatory posted:Writing aside, Candace Patton has great line delivery and I really like her as an actress based on what I've seen so far. I hope they find more to do with her. I'm a bit worried, because unlike Laurel, Iris doesn't have a kickass crime-fighting destiny (I don't think). Even through the doldrums of the Arrow thread, we always knew that Laurel would one day be Black Canary, and we held onto that hope. Comics nerds, what do we have to look forward to with Iris? She's a secret time traveller from the 30th century. So, hopefully we have nothing but her becoming an interesting and completely unrelated to the comic character...
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Oct 17, 2014 14:38
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Spergatory posted:Comics nerds, what do we have to look forward to with Iris? Well, it's complicated but she never becomes a superhero or anything that I recall. There's time travel shenanigans and eventually she comes back in time with her grandson Bart to get him help controlling his out of control speed powers. Probably ain't gonna happen that way in this one, though, so who knows. This was all before the whole New 52 reboot DC did a couple of years ago, mind. I've no idea what the current Iris West is up to.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:40
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jng2058 posted:Hmm. Let me think about that petty expression of dislike you lobbed. 
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Oct 17, 2014 14:43
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Spergatory posted:Writing aside, Candace Patton has great line delivery and I really like her as an actress based on what I've seen so far. I hope they find more to do with her. I'm a bit worried, because unlike Laurel, Iris doesn't have a kickass crime-fighting destiny (I don't think). Even through the doldrums of the Arrow thread, we always knew that Laurel would one day be Black Canary, and we held onto that hope. Comics nerds, what do we have to look forward to with Iris? Adding to what others have said, she is generally depicted as being very smart and a good reporter. She figures out Barry is The Flash before he tells her, although how varies between tellings. For this show, I'd say you'd be better off just thinking "Lois Lane" and seeing what the show does from there. So far they haven't been shy about making huge changes to minor characters, so anything's possible.
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Oct 17, 2014 14:50
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Phylodox posted:What thread have you been reading? Are we talking about the same thread that dubbed Katie Cassidy "Dorito Face" and repeatedly wished for Laurel's death in favour of Caity Lotz being Canary? Goons (and internet dwellers in general) have a way of over-simplifying issues. "kill them off" is usually a general way of saying "this character's being underutilized or poorly written so either I hope they find a better way to portray them, or else just remove them from the show entirely." The actress who plays Laurel is clearly a better actress than the one who plays Sara. Caity "Mary Poppins" Lotz might have been able to somersault her way out of a paper bag, but her acting ability was unfortunately a three-year-old playing with a plastic one.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:12
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WarLocke posted:I had to google this (I was more of a Marvel kid growing up) but yeah, I can see this being it. For Some reason he has to travel back in time to make sure Flash becomes the Flash. I had a think about this. There is a theory about Time Travel that suggests one can only travel backwards in time to the point that the Time Machine was first switched on, and no further. This is to account for the fact that we haven't had about 30 Kang's all travel back to the year 1900 and declare themselves ruler, all simultaneously. The idea is that if Time Travel is conducted as a result of creating a Stable Wormhole, then the end point for that Wormhole will always be connected to the Time Machine. So once you build a time machine in 2016, you can use it to go as far into the future as the Time Machine will allow, but never further back in the past farther than 2016. Up until this point, that's what I thought we were getting in the series. That "Harrison Wells" is a Time Traveler from the future (a guy we'll call Rip), and the wormhole that he uses is the Star City Particle Accelerator explosion. That in addition to sending out all kinds of pan dimensional energies to make metahumans, it also is the end point for all time travellers. In which case, the first thing "Harrison Wells"/Rip does is go back in time to after the Particle Accelerator explosion, dispose of the body of the real Harrison Wells, takes his place (using some future Plastic Surgery) and impersonate him having pretended to have survived the explosion. (the stuff about the Lightning Man in Barry's flashback could be explained that he has some other Speed based method of Time Travel which is superior to Harrison Well's technological based method of time travel. While this sounds dumb, it's actually something that comes up in the Flash comics, a lot.) However that entire theory was shot to hell in this episode given that Harrison Wells clearly knows Simon Stagg and has had dealings with him in the past. Still I'm going to keep this theory down here in case it plays out as being correct. Much like my prediction for Dominic Purcell being Heat Wave came true.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:21
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The Question IRL posted:However that entire theory was shot to hell in this episode given that Harrison Wells clearly knows Simon Stagg and has had dealings with him in the past. Still I'm going to keep this theory down here in case it plays out as being correct. Much like my prediction for Dominic Purcell being Heat Wave came true.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:28
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eNeMeE posted:My guess is he just has future information, knows that Flash will save the world in 2024, and is willing to do absolutely anything to ensure that happens. The newspaper actually says Flash disappeared during the "Crisis". We don't know if he saved the world or not. It's possible he failed, and Wells is trying to make him better for the second try.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:34
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eNeMeE posted:My guess is he just has future information, knows that Flash will save the world in 2024, and is willing to do absolutely anything to ensure that happens. My guess is that he didn't come back alone. Someone else came back who wants to make sure Flash isn't around to save everyone, and Wells came back to protect him.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:37
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Aphrodite posted:The newspaper actually says Flash disappeared during the "Crisis". We don't know if he saved the world or not. It's possible he failed, and Wells is trying to make him better for the second try. It also says "Red skies disappeared", which is generally a good sign.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:47
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double negative posted:She was literally going to fabricate a quote for her article, IIRC. She was joking. She had a flippant attitude about the article because she didn't really care about it. This is to set up a contrast with her authentic interest in the red blur. Between that and her preference for an exciting secret relationship, they're portraying her as someone who gets bored easily and is a bit of a thrill-seeker. Presumably this is a reaction to her overprotective dad. This is also why she can't know that Barry is The Flash, if she did she'd be all about the guy with superpowers who runs into burning buildings, and her dad probably doesn't want to see his two kids hooking up. She's easily the most nuanced character on the show and has some interesting facets to have explored in a show about superheroes. The issues with her character are that she most clearly brings out Barry's worst quality: he forms inappropriately strong attachments way too fast. This is why he's locked in on Iris but unable to do anything about it. This is why he's got a murderer as a mentor.
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Oct 17, 2014 16:48
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