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OK caco-gate investigators, still doesn't look like a trace to me:
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Oct 17, 2014 19:51
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mod sassinator posted:Seriously you guys want to think the image is a direct trace from the monster manual, even when there's an entire sprite sheet of images that were created at different angles and poses? Why would they trace one head on image when they're already building the models, photographing them, digitizing them, and cleaning them up so they can get all the angles. You're this confused by the concept of tracing a single image and then making other frames of animation to match it? It's really so far fetched as to be mind blowing? I think you need to get out of the house more often.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:02
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They traced the one head on image? Seriously!?
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mod sassinator posted:Seriously you guys want to think the image is a direct trace from the monster manual, even when there's an entire sprite sheet of images that were created at different angles and poses? Why would they trace one head on image when they're already building the models, photographing them, digitizing them, and cleaning them up so they can get all the angles. Can you find any pictures of a clay model of a caco? I don't think they did. I think they did clay for the others, and just ripped and digitized the face, then cleaned it up and had a pixel artist generate the other angles based on the front. That's the difference. It still took original effort, but it was based on that design for sure. You could find some demon from before Doom that looked vaguely like a pinky or a mancubus, but they both had original clay models sculpted and digitized. And they wouldn't have the specific details of doom, like mancubus having flamethrower arms and weird stripes.  Other than the main front-facing image, the other angles are all the same exact image but with things removed or filled in. Its easy to fake since the caco is vaguely spherical, so it looks roughly the same from all angles, just move the mouth and eyes around. Any pixel artist worth his salt could come up with those other angles really easily. And its not like they stop-motion animated the whole death sequence, somebody just freehand drew that with pixels. Its not that hard. Doing clay models is extremely time consuming. I bet they did a few of those and then ran out of time, and just clipped the demon. If you're doing pixel art of a complicated figure, starting from scratch is gonna look awful unless you're a really talented artist. So you copy the base appearance, clean it up / change it a bit, and then use that as your foundation for the other angles. Pretty straightforward. mod sassinator posted:Ok if we want to go down that slippery slope, then why aren't we crucifying the D&D monster manual artists for stealing their designs from other sources? That's a totally fair argument. But while they may have borrowed some style from the cyclops, Its not really exactly the same, is it? ALL artists take inspiration, I already pointed that out. Its a tricky issue, definitely not super clear black and white. Like I said some remixing and reuse is actually a really good thing. But I don't think the D&D monster manual actually traced a frame of ... what was that? Sinbad? Jason and the argonauts? I mean WoW's cyclopses look EXACTLY like Harryhausen's. A beholder is at least a more original concept, even if it has similar style. But even then I accept the WoW models more than the caco. mod sassinator posted:OK caco-gate investigators, still doesn't look like a trace to me: I dunno man that looks 100% like somebody handed the image to the left to a pixel artist, who traced it and then improved it to me. The eye, teeth, skin tone, tentacles and horns are all in the EXACT same positions and in literally the same art style. Agree to disagree I guess. titaniumone seems to really hate this topic so maybe just let it go? Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 20:08
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My modded version of Brutal Doom continues to make my Doom experience unforgettable. I don't even remember what Doom was like before this point. Maybe it never existed. Maybe this is the way it was always meant to be? Unforgettable.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:11
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Maybe it never existed. Maybe this is the way it was always meant to be? Probably for the best. The legacy of Doom is eternally tainted now due to Trace-Gate anyway.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:15
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Someone find a way to contact Adrian Carmack and ask if he traced the D&D manual, there is no other way to end this argument.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:45
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mod sassinator posted:Seriously you guys want to think the image is a direct trace from the monster manual, even when there's an entire sprite sheet of images that were created at different angles and poses? Why would they trace one head on image when they're already building the models, photographing them, digitizing them, and cleaning them up so they can get all the angles. I think you're getting too hung up on the word "trace." People who are bothered seem to be concerned about the fact that the Cacodemon isn't an original concept rather than the exact mechanics of how the image was lifted into Doom.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:49
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People posting about Cacogate are violent abusers and harassers who send Adrian Carmack nasty tweets. The concerned people who are worried about copyright infringement should use a new term, Cacogate is tainted.
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Oct 17, 2014 20:53
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Gimnbo posted:I think you're getting too hung up on the word "trace." People who are bothered seem to be concerned about the fact that the Cacodemon isn't an original concept rather than the exact mechanics of how the image was lifted into Doom. Yeah, I'm done arguing it. "People who are bothered seem to be concerned about the fact that the Cacodemon isn't an original concept"--welcome to art since the beginning of time. I recommend people who still are mad about it being ripped off watch the Ted talk I posted on the last page. "Good artists copy; great artists steal" -Pablo Picasso
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Oct 17, 2014 20:56
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Can someone throw a good Duke3d map pack my way? I wanna play through something with War of Attrition, which I'm just finally getting into/addicted to
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Oct 17, 2014 21:05
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#cacogate
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Oct 17, 2014 21:08
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Personally I just moved on to Blood after finishing Duke 3D. Never looked that closely at Duke map sets.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:08
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mod sassinator posted:Yeah, I'm done arguing it. "People who are bothered seem to be concerned about the fact that the Cacodemon isn't an original concept"--welcome to art since the beginning of time. I recommend people who still are mad about it being ripped off watch the Ted talk I posted on the last page. Ha, I ain't mad, but caco is an Original the Character Do Not Steal and you're in denial Here's a question more in keeping with the usual thread vibe: does anyone know why my gzdoom runs like poo poo when I turn texture filtering off? If anything it should be the opposite. I hate muddy textures.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:09
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DiscoMouse posted:Ha, I ain't mad, but caco is an Original the Character Do Not Steal and you're in denial Why don't you ask the author to begin legal proceedings and let us know how it goes?
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Oct 17, 2014 21:10
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Stop getting mad about video games.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:11
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:#cacogate Cacodemons don't have to be in your monster closet. Cacodemons are over.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:11
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I just noticed the cacodemon has two anuses 
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Oct 17, 2014 21:12
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 Also in the process of searching around I found these somewhat NSFW images and kind of wish I didn't see them: https://e621.net/post/show/512898/big_breasts-big_butt-breast_squish-breasts-butt-caHere's a preview: 
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Oct 17, 2014 21:13
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:Why don't you ask the author to begin legal proceedings and let us know how it goes? I think they probably know!
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Oct 17, 2014 21:13
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:I just noticed the cacodemon has two anuses I thought the other one was a vagina.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:29
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I'm sorry for what I've started
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Oct 17, 2014 21:30
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ive learned things about doom i never wanted to know.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:32
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I guess the hdoom guy is capturing the true spirit of the game
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Oct 17, 2014 21:33
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Roobanguy posted:ive learned things about doom i never wanted to know. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that the last four pages or so are more unsettling than anything Doom 4 could ever hope to achieve.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:34
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Shadow Hog posted:Personally I just moved on to Blood after finishing Duke 3D. Never looked that closely at Duke map sets. If there was a War of Attrition for Blood I would play it in a heartbeat. If there was an anything for Blood I'd play it in a heartbeat 
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Oct 17, 2014 21:46
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What I want to know is why is Robotjoe art ending up in here.
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Oct 17, 2014 21:49
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I'm going through the Blood alpha sprite data files and this is probably the seventh time that I've encountered softcore porn in a loving FPS' sprite data files. Is there an explanation for this phenomenon at all? Why the hell is there so much porn? Was it to keep the sprite team's morale up? Was it because everyone working on games back then was just a horny nerd? Not that I'm complaining, it is nice to see some skin after cruising through hellhounds and spiders for a while, but it seems like every FPS back then just had to have some hidden porn crowbared in like it was a requirement. My favorite was when I explored Shadow Warrior's files and they had topless Asian girls. A+ for consistency Douk Douk fucked around with this message at 22:16 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 22:14
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MONKET posted:Was it because everyone working on games back then was just a horny nerd? Come on, you already know the answer to this.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:20
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my bony fealty posted:On this subject, every fan of early FPS games owes it to themselves to read Masters of Doom if they haven't already. It's a fantastic story that's entertaining the whole way through. And it's only $12 on Amazon! Seconding this recommendation. Masters of Doom is an exelent read and not only shows the history of id/doom, but a bit of everything that happened with the whole industry from the early 80's to the early 2000's.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:20
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Porn was so rare back then that when a nerd caught a glimpse of tits it was the equivalent of doing a line of blow. I need to grab Masters of Doom one of these days. I can't believe I've gone on this long without having read it. Someone get John Carmack to read it and sell it as an audiobook.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:26
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So... besides Death Wish and Bloody Pulp Fiction, are there any decent maps or map sets for Blood?
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Oct 17, 2014 22:33
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MONKET posted:Porn was so rare back then that when a nerd caught a glimpse of tits it was the equivalent of doing a line of blow. Looks like the audiobook version is narrated by Wil Wheaton
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Oct 17, 2014 22:37
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Nick Smith reads 'Masters of Doom' Zaphod42, when you consider how much more work some of the other sprites consumed, you can forgive them for cutting corners for some enemies. In 'Masters of Doom' one of iD's first endeavors is to recreate Super Mario Land 3 on a desktop, which was a rendering feat for the time
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Oct 17, 2014 22:39
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Zat posted:Looks like the audiobook version is narrated by Wil Wheaton This is a loving travesty.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:39
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mod sassinator posted:OK caco-gate investigators, still doesn't look like a trace to me: It's a trace of the right half only, then mirrored to fill out the face. Also: anyone who's got an issue with that fact has got a screw loose.
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Oct 18, 2014 08:49
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The teeth, tentacle-mass, and lower horns are still rather different. But eh, Doom was based on the stuff they enjoyed, no one is surprised.
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Oct 18, 2014 09:19
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jN2nDVdndRs ECWolf now supports Vorbis and Opus music, so you don't have to put IMFs in your mods anymore (it "supports" midi but don't use it, it's broken).
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Oct 18, 2014 16:35
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superh posted:It's a trace of the right half only, then mirrored to fill out the face. You are ignoring the fact that they also traced the butthole. That was definitely copyright infringement. Anyhow, Brutal Doom is so 2012. Smooth Doom is where it's at. Toss in some DHTP, change the resolution to 16:10, and all of a sudden Doom starts looking nice. Now that you mention it, it IS a little weird that the zombies have rifles that aren't automatic... lurker1981 fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 06:01
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I prefer Beautiful Doom, it seems to have the spirit of the original game a bit more, asides from giving zombie soldiers pistols.
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Oct 19, 2014 06:15
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lurker1981 posted:You are ignoring the fact that they also traced the butthole. That was definitely copyright infringement. Dude, it's a vagina. Get it right. 
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Oct 19, 2014 14:52
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