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-Games where you can be a kingmaker when you're losing is a bad design -People who kingmake when they're losing are dicks Think we got it covered.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:13
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Lichtenstein posted:Philosophical question: you're playing Chaos in the Old World and clearly see you're heading towards unsalvageable defeat. Is deciding to drag everyone else down with you and help the Old World repel the invasion throwing a shitfit, or a deliberate way of losing less? That game, out of a ton, is basically designed to be dead last and catapulting to first. If you're going to have a 'unsalvageable defeat' then it's probably the last turn. If its midgame or even the beginning you can always have a chance at winning. Piggy back corruption explosions by only having 1 or 2 tokens there with minimal involvement. Concentrate on dominating areas and milking the victory track points. Getting a tie with another player so that they don't get two spins on their dial. Play as the rats since they can literally win in one turn if you're good at thinking mulitple moves ahead and knowing the turn order of corruption. Play as blue and control the flow of the game. If you truly think you will lose at Chaos then it's probably everyone's first time playing and not knowing how easily Khorne can win with new players. It's probably one of the best games where everyone can be king if they know what's up.
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Oct 17, 2014 22:30
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Buckwheat Sings posted:That game, out of a ton, is basically designed to be dead last and catapulting to first. If you're going to have a 'unsalvageable defeat' then it's probably the last turn. If its midgame or even the beginning you can always have a chance at winning. This is true. I had a game where I started off great as the rats, dominated the empire and ticked. Then I set up to do it again, Khorne managed to get a Bloodletter (2 battle dice in there), and I used a spell to upgrade my guys defense, and added a few extra guys to be safe and lock down the domination points+tick. Khorne rolled some insanely unlikely number of hits (10 I think on two dice) and nearly wiped me off the board and of course whiffed with 4 dice from his greater demon in another square. I score nothing, fail to tick, and have nearly nothing on the board after round 2. I still managed to put in a good fight for first and came in second. Can you do that in any other game? That said it's not terribly hard to be in an unwinnable position. If you play khorne for ticks you need to be pretty reliable on double ticking to have a chance, so zero ticking on say round 3 would be pretty hard to come back from, and pretty hard to transition to points. modig fucked around with this message at 23:31 on Oct 17, 2014 |
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Oct 17, 2014 23:27
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Crackbone posted:-Games where you can be a kingmaker when you're losing is a bad design I would append that if you're in a kingmaking situation, it helps to play as if you're going for the highest score/second place...and then blame the game.
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Oct 17, 2014 23:29
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So my friends and I are going to be playing tragedy looper for the first time tonight I does anybody have any tips for teaching the rules or just easy rules to miss or get wrong in general? one question I have on the top my head right now is can characters get more than their max amount of paranoia and why would the protagonists want to dump paranoia onto a character?
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Oct 18, 2014 01:53
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CodfishCartographer posted:So my friends and I are going to be playing tragedy looper for the first time tonight I does anybody have any tips for teaching the rules or just easy rules to miss or get wrong in general? one question I have on the top my head right now is can characters get more than their max amount of paranoia and why would the protagonists want to dump paranoia onto a character? Can characters exceed their Paranoia Limit? Yes. The Limit only declares when the character Panics. A character can have an infinite amount of Paranoia. Why would Protagonists want to play their Paranoia +1? If a Culprit is panicking, their Incident is mandatory. Sneaky Protagonists can manipulate Incidents for their benefit this way (for example, having somebody Murder the Serial Killer, or using the Hospital Incident to genocide all non-Key Person characters from the game).
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Oct 18, 2014 02:06
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Trynant posted:I would append that if you're in a kingmaking situation, it helps to play as if you're going for the highest score/second place...and then blame the game. The real skill here is being able to do what you want while having a good justification for it. You want the game to end faster so you can play something else? You want that fucker Dan to lose? If you can make those things happen while being able to explain and position your actions to make you seem like not-a-jerk, then you are truly a king of kingmaking.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:31
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Crackbone posted:-Games where you can be a kingmaker when you're losing is a bad design You can play kingmaker in anything with any kind of interaction. You can even play kingmaker in Agricola if you really want to and don't give a drat about your score.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:38
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I only like playing with kingmakers in two-player games myself.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:41
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Paradoxish posted:You can play kingmaker in anything with any kind of interaction. You can even play kingmaker in Agricola if you really want to and don't give a drat about your score. Yeah I don't buy in to anything close to a strict rule that kingmaking being possible is bad design. It can be pretty easy to do even in near-solitaire games like Race for the Galaxy. It's a question of how often and to what extent the outcome of the game is the result of kingmaking. Really though the line between 'kingmaking' and 'sabotage' is often more of a social one than a design issue. If you are last and you have two options that give equal points and the winner of the game rests on which one you pick, then that's a kingmaking design issue. If you're last and you decide to torpedo someone because the game lets you influence other players, that's probably not a kingmaking design issue.
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Oct 18, 2014 02:55
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Mega64 posted:I only like playing with kingmakers in two-player games myself. I'm going to make a game about PUAs and have it be called wing manning.
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Oct 18, 2014 03:09
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ThaShaneTrain posted:I'm going to make a game about PUAs and have it be called wing manning. That's not the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you kept your mouth shut a little more, you'd be a really hot game designer. Edit: \/\/ It's like...the PUA thing...? Like they're jerks with lovely compliments thrown in? TheCosmicMuffet fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 04:57
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:That's not the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you kept your mouth shut a little more, you'd be a really hot game designer. get out of my thread
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Oct 18, 2014 05:02
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:Edit: \/\/ It's like...the PUA thing...? Like they're jerks with lovely compliments thrown in? Well then pretend BL slapped you and threw a drink in your face.
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Oct 18, 2014 06:10
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Alright, finished paying for Mansions of Madness and brought it home today. Spent all afternoon punching, sorting, and sleeving everything and have barely touched the rule book yet; but are there any tips/tricks I should know before the first game? I'm almost certainly going to be the Keeper for the first few plays, given I'm the one who's super hung go about the game.
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Oct 18, 2014 06:47
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If you are playing Mansions--and more importantly, if you are buying Mansions stuff--this is your gospel. R. Yang has written stuff on all the Mansions content up through Call of the Wild and The Yellow Sign. Read it all.
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Oct 18, 2014 07:04
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jivjov posted:Alright, finished paying for Mansions of Madness and brought it home today. Spent all afternoon punching, sorting, and sleeving everything and have barely touched the rule book yet; but are there any tips/tricks I should know before the first game? I'm almost certainly going to be the Keeper for the first few plays, given I'm the one who's super hung go about the game. Remember to do Horror Checks every time a monster enters a players line of sight. Thats how you're gonna do most of your sanity damage to them. Only 1 physical and 1 mental ailment at a time (I forget what they are called in game, but you'll see what I mean) the number on the card what they have to be at for you to use that effect on them, not how much damage it does when you give it to them like we thought at first  If you want to be an evil dick do the second scenario first, but the first one is really the one they want you to do first since it's the simplest.
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Oct 18, 2014 07:39
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So, I may be teaching Mage knight to 3 friends tomorrow, but so far I have only played it solo. How long time should I expect the intro to take? And should I take out all the expansion stuff that I put in to make it simpler or is it the same amount of complexity for new players?
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Oct 18, 2014 08:25
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Leave it all in and throw an expansion tile to the end of the introductory scouting scenario, then play the introductory scouting scenario, then play a basic conquest game with the expansion scenario stuff.
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Oct 18, 2014 08:27
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TheCosmicMuffet posted:That's not the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you kept your mouth shut a little more, you'd be a really hot game designer. Pro tier negging. I have almost lost enough self-confidence to give you a score but sadly I'm putting you in the friendzone. Roll doubles to get out or pay enough nice guy points.
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Oct 18, 2014 09:47
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BonHair posted:So, I may be teaching Mage knight to 3 friends tomorrow, but so far I have only played it solo. How long time should I expect the intro to take? And should I take out all the expansion stuff that I put in to make it simpler or is it the same amount of complexity for new players? Not to long since the intro scenario is over whenever somebody discovers the first city, which with 4 players running around won't take that long assuming they understand that they should be exploring a lot.
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Oct 18, 2014 11:01
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HOOLY BOOLY posted:Not to long since the intro scenario is over whenever somebody discovers the first city, which with 4 players running around won't take that long assuming they understand that they should be exploring a lot. So an hour or two?
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Oct 18, 2014 11:51
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BonHair posted:So an hour or two? I'd lean on more on the 2-3 hours, depending on how fast you set up, how quickly your friends pick up and retain information (because as simple as Mage Knight is after you learn it, there is a hell of a learning curve) and how fast the turns end up getting played. If you have a way to easily separate the expansion stuff i'd do it at first, get everybody comfortable with the base game before you flip their world upside down with Volkare/Elusive units
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Oct 18, 2014 12:03
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Definitely allow three hours for the first game. It'll take time for people to get their head around the maths, they'll umm and aah, and you'll want to level them up and show them how to clean up their hand before the next person's turn rather than during it.
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Oct 18, 2014 12:05
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Yeah, at least three hours for the intro game (that's only two days and nights isn't it?) maybe more if your group isnt mathsy or is AP-prone.
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Oct 18, 2014 13:46
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My wife and I went out to the movies yesterday and there was the weirdest board game cameo ever in Gone Girl. I haven't seen this brought up in the last few pages so I hope it isn't a repeat. First of all, I need to let you know that there will be some very minor spoilers but ultimately I won't be ruining the plot of the actually pretty good film. I'm just going to describe three scenes. The first one is the most dramatic. There is a big mystery and everyone suspects a murder. A series of cryptic clues lead the main guy played by Ben Affleck to an old wood shed behind his sister's house. There is a prolonged shot of him approaching the shed slowly. Lots of tension as scenes from another dramatic discovery flash on screen. There is a very emotional voice over and the music starts rising the tension. Ben Affleck finally gets to the shed, opens the door slowly and we see a shot of him looking surprised... Did he find a corpse? A bloody weapon? Something worse?!? Nope. The first thing that grabs my eye in the shed is a copy of Dominion and a copy of Race for the Galaxy. They are literally front and center, the focus of the shot. I quickly scan the shed looking for more games but only see toy robots and an RC quadcopter. The movie tries to make it seem like there is supposed to be a 60 inch TV and a full set of golf clubs in there but all I see is $70 worth of designer board games. It was so goddamned weird and out of place. Needless to say that this is a big revelation in the movie. Lots of plot happens and eventually Ben Affleck goes back to the shed with his sister. Again another prolonged shot of Race for the Galaxy and Dominion. Nothing too crazy here except that for some reason those games are getting more screen time in a multimillion dollar blockbuster movie. Finally comes the weirdest thing. So Ben Affleck is the main suspect in the murder that surrounds the whole movie, and his sister is suspected to be in on it as well. Needless to say that it is a very stressful time for both of these characters. The cops show up at her house with a search warrant and check out the shed. They swing open the door and again, there is race for the Galaxy and dominion. Except this time, the boxes are open and off to the side... So am I supposed to believe that the sister snuck in there to punch out tokens and ruffle through cards? Who opened the box? Maybe the brother and sister decided to kick back and let off some steam by playing a nice relaxing game of Race for the Galaxy? In any case, it was by far the weirdest board game cameo ever. I didn't spoil much about the film, and it is actually pretty good so if you want to experience the same confusion I am feeling, go see Gone Girl.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:39
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Rusty Kettle posted:My wife and I went out to the movies yesterday and there was the weirdest board game cameo ever in Gone Girl. Jay bought a deal with a product placement service. It's just a set dresser using boxes he was paid to put in the scene.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:42
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Poopy Palpy posted:Jay bought a deal with a product placement service. It's just a set dresser using boxes he was paid to put in the scene. I hope that having their products depicted as suspected murderer's frivolous expensive purchase works out for them. When you find out who bought the stuff, it is hilarious to think of them logging onto CoolStuff and making an order out of spite and hatred.
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Oct 18, 2014 15:54
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I was at my local game store yesterday looking for a new game and saw Robinson Crusoe on sale for $50. I decided to pick it up based on some review videos I had watched earlier. I had gone there to pick up the Mage Knight expansion but it was the same price so I figured I would get more value out of a new game. I've played half a scenario solo so far (it's still set up on my dining room table) and I have to say this is an excellent game! Almost like an unholy cross between Agricola and Arkham Horror. All the desperation of a tight worker placement game to feed and shelter your people with the excitement of pulling random cards out of adventure decks and rolling dice. I've got to say this game scratches many itches at once. In particular I really liked the use of generic symbols and tokens that have different effects based on the scenario. This makes it so easy to make homebrew scenarios without having to add any new components. Various cards getting shuffled into the event deck to be drawn later and "come back to haunt you" is a clever mechanic; this game is full of clever mechanics. Defiantly worth it. Rutibex fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 16:50
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Played a lot of new ones this week. Pit is fun but better with large groups. Ditto Council of Verona. Four was fun, but 5 brings in alt victory conditions that would add complexity. Spies and Snitches is a fun game about stepping on your fellow players dicks. I tried for 1st by having 2nd-most of all the colors, bar blue. "Spite" is a boring sentinels villain. Edit: Council of Verona had a moment in round 3 of 4 when a player exiled Juliet from council. This ended up breaking all 4 victory conditions so nobody, including him, scored any points. It was too funny to get peeved at, but we gave him poo poo for the rest of the night. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 18:58 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 18:00
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Poopy Palpy posted:Jay bought a deal with a product placement service. It's just a set dresser using boxes he was paid to put in the scene. The influence of Big Board is growing.
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Oct 18, 2014 18:30
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So, today was Diskwars day! ...after we were tired of playing Space Alert, that is. We drew Conquest as the scenario, which got us hoping we can get the perfect alpha strike at our hapless opponents. Unfortunately, Black Pharaoh's Tomb Banshee failed to deal all that much damage after he ran right into the middle of the Imperial forces, and my forward-deployed Daemonettes also ended up dying without much avail. Worse, however, the Runic Cannon ended up just barely seeing the Vampire heroes, who between the Cannon, the Siege Tank and a suicidal Hochland Pistoliers charge took three wounds between the two of them... without dying, luckily. By the end of the first round, the tide, however, had turned. I dumped my entire reserve from the flanks, meaning that my brother had to keep his Panthers occupied with my flanking manoeuvre, while the Dwarves did not get a chance to respond before a Hellstrider charge with Blood for the Blood God annihilated their cannon. From this point on, I had little to no influence on the battle, but I bought enough time for the undead to finally creep on the enemy line and take down the Siege Tank. I also managed to get my heroes into action killing Teclis and Karl Franz as well as neutralized the leftovers of the High Elves. During the last turn, the Panthers and Volkmar cowardly ran away to prevent an elimination victory. Black Pharaoh's force was largely intact, I had three units left, my brother had the two runaways and the other friend was pummelled into the ground. The last few turns were tedious, but in the end we took the day - even with most of my army giving VPs to the enemy, they couldn't match the entirety of Lichtenstein's force squatting in the Dwarven deployment zone. PS. I am somewhat sad that Lichtenstein never gave you guys an account of Probably The Only Diskwars Tournament EverTM, of which he was the main organizer.
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Oct 18, 2014 21:47
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Playing some interesting stuff at Essen. ONUW: Daybreak is pretty good. We had a game with Village Idiot, Prince and Curator; the Idiot initially lied about the direction of rotation and the Prince ended up getting the artifact that makes you a Prince. I also played an unexpanded game with some Germans who didn't speak English, which was fun. Artificium got a full game. It looks nice and has some good ideas, but it's way too swingy at the top end and economy cards are too essential for a non-guaranteed resource. Played an odd game called Bania, which is area control and resource management with the twist that controlling too much area is a drawback and managing your resources to the max makes it easier to screw you over. It wasn't amazing, but I'd play it again. Got to see my Cthulhu Wars shinies and had a chat with Wendy Petersen. It looks really nice, but the miniatures feel quite soapy and I'm not sure how easy they'll be to paint. If anyone else is at Essen, I'll be hanging around the Queen Games stand around 11. I'm actually meeting friends and heading off with them, but if anyone wants a natter I can get there a little bit earlier. I'll be wearing the Hitchhikers Guide Radio Show T-shirt. Jedit fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 23:58
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Jedit posted:Got to see my Cthulhu Wars shinies and had a chat with Wendy Petersen. It looks really nice, but the miniatures feel quite soapy and I'm not sure how easy they'll be to paint. Did you get a chance to actually play the game?
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Oct 19, 2014 00:22
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GrandpaPants posted:Did you get a chance to actually play the game? There's a game?
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Oct 19, 2014 02:24
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Echophonic posted:There's a game?
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Oct 19, 2014 02:52
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'nother board game outing this weekend. Love Letter got some use as filler, like it always does. Opened with another game of Euphoria. Had a dude with recruits who were a cannibal and a tribute, so he was always turning his own workers into food and covering them in gold for extra victory points. Didn't win though, but he came close. In the middle distance was Machi Koro, which just came into my FLGS this week. We had like 5 rounds of it in 2 hours, including setup, rules explanation, and teardown. One guy went completely nuclear with the money-stealing cafe and family restaurant cards, but never managed to pull out the win - that was down to furniture, cheese, and supermarkets paying big. One guy went pure furniture and won once. Myself and a fourth player switched our pitch up like crazy and won twice each. Ending the night was Tichu, which looks like a standard partner-based trick-taking card game but you can also play basically poker hands: pairs, consecutive pairs, three-of-a-kind, full houses, straights of at least 5. You have to follow the "lead", though -- the person who started the trick -- so you play pairs on pairs and straights on straights. Four-of-a-kind and straight flushes are considered ultimate trumps that you can play any time. Play on a trick can continue indefinitely, until nobody wants to play on it anymore. You swap cards with your neighbors and your partner to start the game. Game is to 1000, and each round generally has 100 points on offer - the 5s are worth 5, the 10s and kings are worth 10. There are four special cards: The 1 means you get first lead - you can play it singleton or in a straight. (Aces are not 1s, they come after Kings.) You also "wish" for a specific card, which means the next player must play it if possible. If not, the wish continues around, even persisting through tricks unless someone answers it. The dog lets you pass the lead to your partner. You can't use it any other time, so getting stuck with it is kind of bad. The dragon is the ultimate singleton trump, and is worth 25 points, but you have to pass the trick you win with it to one of your opponents. (You still keep the lead, though.) The phoenix is a wildcard that can be played in place of any other card. Played as a singleton it copies the card below it but still wins the trick. It's worth -25 points. In addition to taking point cards in tricks, the object is to go out by playing out all your cards. If you go out first you get the score pile of the last remaining player. If you and your partner are the first team to go out, even if single other players have gone out between you, you get the hand of the last remaining player. If you and your partner are the first to go out, period, you go "1-2" and score 200 points, shutting out your opponents. You can bet that you'll go out first by calling "Tichu" before you play any cards. This is worth an extra 100 points if you're right, and -100 if you're wrong. You can also bet it when you see the first 8 cards you're dealt -- this is "Grand Tichu" and is worth 200/-200 points. It was my first game of it. My partner and I got in a 200-point hole thanks to a bad Tichu call on my part, but we rallied back to win it, thanks to a frankly ridiculous final round where I got dealt two six-card straights, including the 1, and managed to pull six cards out of his hands with a wish.
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Oct 19, 2014 06:09
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GrandpaPants posted:Did you get a chance to actually play the game? I didn't have the time to spare, and I got there just as a demo game filled. And yes, there is a goddamn game. The game came before the big rear end miniatures, and if Sandy Petersen hadn't decided to go all out on making a premium product it would have launched at Essen last year.
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Oct 19, 2014 07:46
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Played Tragedy Looper tonight as Mastermind with a group of three. I kind of pummeled them in the first First Steps scenario, but then got pummeled back during the second First Steps scenario. I didn't really grasp my tools in the latter scenario, so I should have given myself more prep time before playing it with them. Played Machi Koro a couple of times as well. It seems like the Red income buildings are a little broken in the early game, but otherwise it's a pretty light, fun game. I can't wait to see what the expansion does for the game.
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Oct 19, 2014 07:50
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My Essen haul: Alchemists Tash-Kalar CGE version Tash-Kalar: Everfrost Dungeon Lords new stuff (Kickstarter pickup) Neptun (Kickstarter pickup) Thebes (in the Kickstarter combo) Madeira 7 Wonders: Babel And sort of chess/checkers combination called Sixmaking, which I really like as a quick 1-on-1 duel. The Bruges expansion unfortunately was sold out. Sad down and played a game of Hoyul, where you build pre-historic settlements. It didn't have a lot of interesting game mechanics to me. I also looked at Aquasphere that I wanted to play before buying another Feld point salad, but didn't find an opportunity. If it becomes popular, I'll pick it up at a later stage.
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Oct 19, 2014 08:39
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