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Lessail posted:hmm yes quite Alright then why don't you take this Pep loving Hamilton then
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Oct 18, 2014 21:47
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Nail Rat posted:Alright then why don't you take this Pep loving Hamilton then how do you know he's bad? do you work with him? obviously the higher ups know what they're doing
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Oct 18, 2014 21:48
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FizFashizzle posted:There are like no examples of this working out in the NFL within the last 20 years, btw. I wasn't arguing in favor of the Seahawks trading for Harvin, I was arguing against the Vikings trading him away. If you find yourself in the situation where you're trading away picks for a player, you're almost certainly getting fleeced because there turned out to be something about that player that was sufficient for their original team to not want anything to do with them. If they actually wanted to keep the player, whatever it would take for them to give up that player would be worth far more than the player actually is worth. Most (well-managed) teams are unwilling to trade away their actually good players for first-round picks because they (correctly) evaluate those players as worth more than a first rounder. In this case it ended up working out great for the Vikings, and bully for them. CharlestheHammer posted:You can't argue that he was an rear end in a top hat and that GMs know better at the same time. They are directly opposing arguments. Simply claiming that these are opposing statements doesn't actually make them opposing statements. I'd expect a D&D refugee to be capable of constructing a better rebuttal than that. It also seems you didn't understand the point I was making, so I'll restate it for your convenience: two consecutive front offices have found Harvin to be not worth keeping around and have jettisoned him. We know his talent isn't in question. Thus, there must be something else about Harvin that would make him undesirable. The seemingly obvious factor seems to be his contract. Why not just claim that, though? Why leak all this stuff about him, instead of just going "He wasn't worth it."? If you argue that there is nothing else about Harvin making him undesirable, then you are arguing that two consecutive NFL front offices have acted entirely arbitrarily in their handling of Percy Harvin, which seems to me wildly improbable.
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Oct 18, 2014 21:51
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Lessail posted:how do you know he's bad? do you work with him? obviously the higher ups know what they're doing The higher ups are weaving all over the road high on painkillers they have no idea what they're doing.
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Oct 18, 2014 21:51
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Nail Rat posted:The higher ups are weaving all over the road high on painkillers they have no idea what they're doing. "Once we get him in our system, we can mold him into the player we think he can be." - a thing a million dumbass NFL front office people believe.
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Oct 18, 2014 21:53
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Nail Rat posted:The higher ups are weaving all over the road high on painkillers they have no idea what they're doing. Well all higher ups do that except like three so what's the difference really
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Oct 18, 2014 21:53
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Atlanta also traded a late 1st to the Jets for John Abraham. He was absolutely worth it. Jets got Nick Mangold out of the deal. Also worth it. TubeStank posted:Good Wide Receivers aren't terribly hard to come by.  Last awesome WR we had was Keyshawn.
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Oct 18, 2014 21:53
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Brannock posted:
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Oct 18, 2014 21:54
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Lessail posted:Well all higher ups do that except like three so what's the difference really Yeah okay
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Oct 18, 2014 21:55
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CharlestheHammer posted:They are opposing arguments. Competent GMs don't trade away good players because they are assholes. Good GMs aren't that petty. My argument is sound. Why do they do it? Because it is easier to sell if you make the player out to be a problem, rather than potentially exposing the coaches to criticism for not being able to use a talented player. There are two responses to this that come to mind: 1. You're suggesting that the Seahawks front office isn't actually a good front office, despite available evidence. 2. You're suggesting that trading away assholes makes a GM not a good GM, and in doing so, you dismiss the possibility that a player may indeed actually have a significantly negative influence on the mythical locker room. (Two of the names mentioned earlier as counterexamples, Ray Rice and Richie Incognito, were either neutral or well-liked by their teammates as far as I can tell.)
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Oct 18, 2014 21:58
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is desean really a gangster who might've killed chip because his initials were ck?
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Oct 18, 2014 22:02
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Brannock posted:A first-round pick is not more valuable than a proven first-round-pick-worthy player. I will never understand this interpretation of value. What does a first-round pick do? Give you a shot at drafting a star player. What was Percy Harvin? A star player. You knew for absolutely sure that Percy Harvin is a young star; a first round pick is a relatively unknown quantity. When you trade Percy Harvin away for a first round pick and you use that same first round pick to attempt to draft Percy Harvin's replacement it's a wash. It's not quite that cut and dry. In a salary cap league, contract numbers and age play a large part in the valuation. First round picks have risk, but they're not going to make star money like Percy is.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:02
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The Seahawks only get a 4th if Harvin stays past the 2014 season.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:04
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TubeStank posted:The Seahawks only get a 4th if Harvin stays past the 2014 season. ugh this trade ugh
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Oct 18, 2014 22:07
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Brannock posted:There are two responses to this that come to mind: Those rebuttals only work if you assume that they actually got rid of him for being an rear end in a top hat. Also I discount the idea that he was a lockerroom cancer, as there was no evidence of that. The Hawks just won the superbowl and are playing about as well as they were last year, though their D isn't as good for obvious reasons.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:08
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Ozu posted:Atlanta also traded a late 1st to the Jets for John Abraham. He was absolutely worth it. Jets got Nick Mangold out of the deal. Also worth it. That was actually questionable when it happened since at the time Abraham couldn't keep his alcoholism under control.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:08
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:the bengals would have done it but they are firmly anti-gamergate and harvins support of the movement was too much for them to handle Let's be honest: Mike Brown was channeling Al Davis and Marvin probably said "oh gently caress no" and shut him down hard. I think the last think Marvin wants is an allegedly violent Chad Johnson.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:11
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CharlestheHammer posted:Those rebuttals only work if you assume that they actually got rid of him for being an rear end in a top hat. Then we go back to where we started, why leak all those stories about Harvin instead of just saying "He wasn't good enough of a player"? The Seahawks are still on the hook for his salary this season and they're still within contending distance of the playoffs, and they have a dearth of talent at WR. They gave up a star player for a 6th round pick with no good alternatives at the position and a quarterback who needs fast targets to get open to succeed in an offense crippled by a bad OL. Given the confirmed/obvious/factual information we have, and ignoring those leaks, the trade doesn't really make sense for the Seahawks for multiple reasons.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:13
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His Wisdom be revealed in due course
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Oct 18, 2014 22:14
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FuzzySkinner posted:Manish Mehta @MMehtaNYDN 2h2 hours ago Man he would've been a lot cooler on a team with AJ Green or Josh Gordon.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:15
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Brannock posted:Then we go back to where we started, why leak all those stories about Harvin instead of just saying "He wasn't good enough of a player"? The Seahawks are still on the hook for his salary this season and they're still within contending distance of the playoffs, and they have a dearth of talent at WR. They gave up a star player for a 6th round pick with no good alternatives at the position and a quarterback who needs fast targets to get open to succeed in an offense crippled by a bad OL. Obviously they saw his salary and production and felt he just wasn't worth keeping long term, so they figured they would get what they could. The hawks obviously pulled a play out of the eagles playbook and decided that it was much better from a PR perspective to push the blame squarely on Harvin in a way that meant there was no blowback. edit: So let me ask you a question, why do you think the Eagles cut Jackson? CharlestheHammer fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Oct 18, 2014 |
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Oct 18, 2014 22:17
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CharlestheHammer posted:Obviously they saw his salary and production and felt he just wasn't worth keeping long term, so they figured they would get what they could. The hawks obviously pulled a play out of the eagles playbook and decided that it was much better from a PR perspective to push the blame squarely on Harvin in a way that meant there was no blowback. Is this your reality or what really happened?
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Oct 18, 2014 22:20
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African AIDS cum posted:Is this your reality or what really happened? They tend to intersect.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:21
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CharlestheHammer posted:edit: So let me ask you a question, why do you think the Eagles cut Jackson? Because they didn't want anything more to do with a 25 year old receiver who'd just completed a 126/1332/9 season.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:24
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CharlestheHammer posted:They tend to intersect. I don't think so
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Oct 18, 2014 22:27
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CharlestheHammer posted:Obviously they saw his salary and production and felt he just wasn't worth keeping long term, so they figured they would get what they could. The hawks obviously pulled a play out of the eagles playbook and decided that it was much better from a PR perspective to push the blame squarely on Harvin in a way that meant there was no blowback. That doesn't square with their usually long leash for talent. Harvin only got 8 games for this staff. I'm not saying all these rumors are true, but people suddenly acting like sports journalists couldn't have been kept out of the loop is kind of odd. It's a bizarre move when a player is so obviously talented, but I'm not willing to discount that he may have been a problem. He only played 6 of the final 17 snaps against Dallas. Most of us attributed that to the OC, but it's being reported that he was checking out of games with some frequency. I could see that creating a real problem with the staff. Hindsight says the trade never should've been made, but at least they pull something out of the wreckage. Not much, but something.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:28
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so do we laugh at sports journalism and then in very hushed tones say they're right this time because they said good things about my team
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Oct 18, 2014 22:31
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Clearly there've been instances before where teams have leaked false stories about a departing player or coach, but I'm curious if there's been incidents where people within the organization have come out and said "Nah, that's all bullshit". I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'm sure it's happened. Given how serious some of those accusations are about Harvin if they're not true I'd expect a Seahawk to come out and say so -- especially with how vocal some of them are.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:34
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Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:the bengals would have done it but they are firmly anti-gamergate and harvins support of the movement was too much for them to handle I have to give props to Carlos Dunlap, who said this about Harvin and the hashtag: "I don't like it. I want women in video games and I don't want them harrassed. This guy thinks because he's got a ring, he can pretend that Bayonetta 2 doesn't have problematic material." Very brave, imho
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Oct 18, 2014 22:35
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Schwack posted:That doesn't square with their usually long leash for talent. Harvin only got 8 games for this staff. I'm not saying all these rumors are true, but people suddenly acting like sports journalists couldn't have been kept out of the loop is kind of odd. Is that leash long because they have talent or because they produce but still have other problems? Because Percy obviously wasn't producing and the hawks are going to need that money eventually, for Wilson. I mean I got no issue with them doing it for that reason, its a solid reason.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:36
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Stupid Dick posted:Let's be honest: Mike Brown was channeling Al Davis and Marvin probably said "oh gently caress no" and shut him down hard. I think the last think Marvin wants is an allegedly violent Chad Johnson. I think comparing him to Ocho isn't quite right but yeah I bet something along that line happened It would have been cool though
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Oct 18, 2014 22:36
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Parmesan Basil posted:I have to give props to Carlos Dunlap, who said this about Harvin and the hashtag: "I don't like it. I want women in video games and I don't want them harrassed. This guy thinks because he's got a ring, he can pretend that Bayonetta 2 doesn't have problematic material." lmfao
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Oct 18, 2014 22:36
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I can't wait to see Harvin get gang-tackled three yards behind the line of scrimmage 5-10 plays a game. J-E-T-S
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Oct 18, 2014 22:42
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CharlestheHammer posted:Is that leash long because they have talent or because they produce but still have other problems? What I mean is that they generally give guys a reasonable amount of time to prove themselves. Percy was never the roadblock to signing Wilson. He was, however, a block to keeping their best lbs on the team. I struggle to believe that they would very publicly give up on a superstar and make themselves look foolish in order to maintain continuity at linebacker.
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Oct 18, 2014 22:44
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Parmesan Basil posted:I have to give props to Carlos Dunlap, who said this about Harvin and the hashtag: "I don't like it. I want women in video games and I don't want them harrassed. This guy thinks because he's got a ring, he can pretend that Bayonetta 2 doesn't have problematic material." Rex Ryan told reporters he thinks "both sides of the issue" need to be heard and there is too much politics in gaming reporting for what "should just be a fun hobby dammit." Very disappointed
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Oct 18, 2014 22:46
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soggybagel posted:His behavioral problems on the vikings amounted to he hated Christian Ponder and thought Childress was a dipshit. So basically things everyone knows to be true and right. Only in sports is a guy considered a "cancer" when he wants to find a new place to work because his co-workers are incompetent and his boss is a doofus.
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Oct 18, 2014 23:29
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lol
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Oct 19, 2014 00:01
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Brannock posted:Clearly there've been instances before where teams have leaked false stories about a departing player or coach, but I'm curious if there's been incidents where people within the organization have come out and said "Nah, that's all bullshit". I can't think of any off the top of my head but I'm sure it's happened. Lynch seemed pretty distressed about it when the news broke. Which is odd, given what a violence prone locker room cancer Harvin apparently was.
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Oct 19, 2014 00:48
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CharlestheHammer posted:Obviously they saw his salary and production and felt he just wasn't worth keeping long term, so they figured they would get what they could. The hawks obviously pulled a play out of the eagles playbook and decided that it was much better from a PR perspective to push the blame squarely on Harvin in a way that meant there was no blowback. Deeming a player not productive after 6 weeks is dumb and the Seahawks aren't dumb. They gave up a lot to get him and gave him an extension so they'd be inclined to give it time. They didn't. I also don't buy that they'd trade him because the coach looks silly. They let Pete Carroll start Russell Wilson over a free agent QB, and it was much of an eye raiser as I can remember. They don't cave to media scrutiny. Cash Monet fucked around with this message at 01:23 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 01:20
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football fuckerman posted:Rex Ryan told reporters he thinks "both sides of the issue" need to be heard and there is too much politics in gaming reporting for what "should just be a fun hobby dammit." Very disappointed Joe Buck called the "NotYourShield" hashtag a "disgusting act"
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Oct 19, 2014 01:23
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