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Kaboom Dragoon posted:IIRC the game explains it by you landing in the male wing of the building, and the female wing being on the other side. All the routes there are blocked off and you never have any reason to go there, hence why there's no women in the game. I think at some point there was a note explaining that what was going on there was messing with the ladies heads well before absolutely everything went to poo poo, and so they were moved off-site some time prior to the game starting.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:11
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Played through Neverending Nightmares for the first time last night, got the Destroyed Dreams ending. It only took me 68 minutes, which was a bit shorter than I expected. It was plenty tense and the scares got me more than a couple of times, but I got pretty frustrated during the "stealth" sections in the asylum with the guys in the straightjackets, where I died at least a dozen times (though I have to admit that I got chills pretty much every time), maybe I'm just bad at games but I think that part could have done with a few less repetitions. The atmosphere was and overall artstyle was good, not a big fan of the stilted animations though. Pretty good overall, and I might go back for the other endings some other night. Also thinking of finally playing Condemned.
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Oct 19, 2014 09:19
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Daylight is one of the worst games I have ever played, definitely the worst horror game. It's so loving badly made in every respect, some of the worst procedural generation I have ever seen, the scares are entirely predictable and purely annoying, you literally spend the entire game just running forward and never stopping, the loving writing, ugh. gently caress that game.
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Oct 19, 2014 10:24
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:The only real problem I have with the game is the 'mental illness = violence' theme the game suggests and reinforces, but that's a discussion for another thread. That's nearly universal in horror though, not even just video games. Unfortunate though it may be.
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Oct 19, 2014 10:51
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Agnostalgia posted:That's nearly universal in horror though, not even just video games. Unfortunate though it may be. Obviously it is, but we're now better equipped than ever to recognize it as the tired crutch it is and try to phase it out of horror. The second annual Asylum Game Jam, beginning on Halloween, challenges devs to come up with horror games that don't further stigmatize mental illness.
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Oct 19, 2014 12:04
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I dunno, as someone who suffers from mental illness I don't really think 'wow, mental illness sure is being shown in a negative way' as some dude hurls a chainsaw through the lower portion of my spine.  Sure, if they're trying to piggy back a 'real' illness into some sort of murderous psychopath diagnosis then I'm with you, but it always struck me as a bit of an odd thing to get hooked on.
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Oct 19, 2014 12:31
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:IIRC the game explains it by you landing in the male wing of the building, and the female wing being on the other side. All the routes there are blocked off and you never have any reason to go there, hence why there's no women in the game. poptart_fairy posted:I dunno, as someone who suffers from mental illness I don't really think 'wow, mental illness sure is being shown in a negative way' as some dude hurls a chainsaw through the lower portion of my spine.
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Oct 19, 2014 13:26
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poptart_fairy posted:I dunno, as someone who suffers from mental illness I don't really think 'wow, mental illness sure is being shown in a negative way' as some dude hurls a chainsaw through the lower portion of my spine. It's great that it doesn't bother you but that doesn't mean it's not something that other people aren't affected by and hoping to rectify. I don't want to derail the thread too much. I will say that I had a lot of other problems with Outlast and that its portrayal of mental illness wasn't at the top. Luckily Alien Isolation so far seems to have taken those same basic mechanics and turned them into something that I'm actually enjoying playing through.
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Oct 19, 2014 13:27
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Maybe portraying mental illness as a violent psychopathic nightmare scenario is played out as gently caress, but I don't think it's inherently destructive. It isn't an ignorance thing; most people know asylums aren't actually dilapidated horror mansions. I also know wars aren't actually cool buddy sweet headshots gently caress yeah situations, but I don't consider that portrayal in action games or movies necessarily problematic unless they're deliberately trying to mislead you, which most often is not the case. Like, I'm pretty sick of it because it's SUCH a common trope, but I don't see it as being actively harmful. If you think the opposite is true, I'd like to know why that is. I can't deny that many of my favourite horror movies/games actively try to incorporate some form of insanity, mostly because not knowing what's real and what isn't is legitimately one of the most terrifying things imaginable. Hakkesshu fucked around with this message at 13:57 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 13:50
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Yeah, it's difficult to understand why you think it's a destructive approach when you haven't explained your thinking behind it. As Hak says I don't think anyone who plays these games genuinely thinks someone that suffers mental illness is going to grab a chainsaw and disembowel anyone, or that a person admitted to an asylum is going to come out possessed by demons and waving a meat cleaver. Boring and lazy? Sure. Harmful to those who suffer? I dunno. I'm struggling to think of any actual damage games like Outlast have caused to support networks or the people attached to them, patient or not.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:05
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No one is going to come away from something like Outlast believing it's an accurate portrayal of mental illness, however by that same token it obviously doesn't provide any greater understanding of the subject. And that's just one example of how mental illness is portrayed in games; in Outlast it's to paint the enemies as Others whereas in many horror games it comes from within the player character and is meant to cast their own experiences into doubt. It serves to both trivialize and misrepresent the kind of things that people with some mental illnesses may actually have to live with on a daily basis, and could only color the popular perceptions of those diseases rather than truthfully inform people about them. Above all, though, there's still room for new ideas in this genre and you guys both agree that it's a tired trope so yeah, why not strive for originality in our stories. That's a key takeaway that I'd like to get at here.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:35
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The mental illness as horror can be demeaning and reductive. It's almost always about creating a backdrop for horrible violent things to happen instead of the struggles of the person suffering. Depression Quest received the praise it did because it put you and your struggles front and center rather than personifying depression as some kind of demon world where monsters sit on your chest or something. It's a stereotype but even good intention stereotypes are still harmful. The media portrays mental illness as something that lurks within and can strike at any moment when real people suffering need support and healing. Can it be done well in video game? Yeah, just not as a backdrop to throw frothing crab crawling cannon fodder at you.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:40
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Mental illness will never be portrayed realistically in horror because real mental illness is terrifying mostly for those afflicted by it and depressing and sad to watch for everybody else. Psychotic breaks nonwithstanding.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:42
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A game from the perspective of someone with schizophrenia would be more horrific than Outlast could ever hope to be.
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Oct 19, 2014 14:49
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Lets! Get! Weird! posted:A game from the perspective of someone with schizophrenia would be more horrific than Outlast could ever hope to be. Yes, but not something where the demarcation is visible. Like horror games often have this theme of duality where reality and fantasy are quite obvious like maybe everything turns hazy or your "episodes" are signified by white light or something. I liked Scratches so much because the end game is so seamlessly blended into the gameplay that you question whether it's supernatural or the result of paranoia. In another example, my sister and I were watching Paranorman. I'd already seen it but she came in knowing nothing about it. Early in the movie when his parents are attacking him for being weird she said "Is this guy schizophrenic? This is why nobody in America can get healed." And I thought "Huh, I never thought about the story that way."
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Oct 19, 2014 15:03
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Scratches wasn't a very good game, but it really did a good job of making you doubt just how much of what you were seeing was real and what wasn't.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:12
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Put like that I can see where peoples' issues come from, so thanks for that clarification. I guess I'm just stuck on the distinction between something being actively harmful, and something just being too lazy to doing anything positive. Fair few games I'm seeing nowadays do seem to be treating the mentally ill as victims of circumstance and exploitation, rather than inherently psychotic, so I suppose it's a step forward in that sense.
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Oct 19, 2014 15:44
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Weird Games days 1-4 Weird Games days 5-8 Weird Games days 9-12 Weird Games days 13-16 17. The Warbler's Nest The interactive fiction world has exploded the past decade but horror IF is pretty rare. The Warbler's Nest is a game about perception. It feeds you context clues sparsely to build up an image that suddenly becomes clear at the end when you have to make a tough choice. All the while it builds on your paranoia and patience (or lack thereof). It's short, maybe 20 minutes at most, and I recommend it even if you've never played an IF game. 18. The Blair Witch Experience https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cNFXJDU1Fw I'm going to talk about not one, but four games! Following the craze The Blair Witch saga created in 1999, a trilogy of video games were released. I find them noteworthy because they're loosely based on the series, allowing them to be their own unique thing rather than derivative works. First we have to start with Nocturne, a 1999 game by Terminal Reality that's unrelated to The Blair Witch. Set during the Prohibition era, you're a member of "Spookhouse" a government organization that hunts paranormal creatures. At its core is an Alone in the Dark style game focused more on action. The game made waves in 1999 for its (still impressive IMO) lighting engine that created deep, rich shadows that scaled well to weaker hardware. The result is one of the more visually striking games of the late 90s even if it's a particularly generic horror shooter. Bloodrayne also exists in the Nocturne universe and there's some recurring plot points in that game. Terminal Reality went on to make the first Blair Witch game titled Rustin Parr, based on a character mentioned in the film. Built on Nocturne's engine and even being set in the same universe. The game explores the background of the titular character and focuses on the duality of night and day. Much like Alan Wake almost a decade later, Rustin Parr focuses on some rudimentary exploration and interaction by day with action set pieces at night. It's a solid game, fixing some of the obnoxious issues with Nocturne while feeling more like a sequel than a licensed game. I could almost imagine a Hellboy game playing out like this, unfortunately we got the pile of poo poo Hellboy: Dogs of the Night. Volume 2, The Legend of Coffin Rock, was developed by Human Head Studios and it sucks. Just like volume 1 it takes a minor element from the film and spins off from it. This time you're a Union soldier who takes a mortal wound and wakes up in a small town. Gone is any attempt to build any kind of atmosphere and mood. I assume this game uses the same engine but the lighting effects are practically non-existent. The acting sucks, the graphics suck, the monster design sucks, everything about this game is garbage and I don't understand how it fell so low compared to the original. Volume 3, The Elly Kedward Tale, takes the series all the way back to the 1700s when the legends began. This one was developed by Ritual and goes back to the creepy atmosphere of volume 1. Being set in an era of flintlock pistols, this game is sparser on the action making it more of a traditional survival horror in the vein of Alone in the Dark. It's still uglier than Terminal Reality's work but it's actually stronger in being a atmospheric horror game. If you can get over the annoyances of mid-age 3D games I think Rustin Parr holds up. Volume 2 is hot garbage and Volume 3 isn't great but it's at least a strongly atmospheric game. And for a special mention, there's The X-Files: Resist or Serve, a bad Resident Evil clone that came out late on PS2. These games remind me of it because they have that same antiquated control style and clunky action, but I'll give these games a pass because they came out in 2000. If you want to play a decent (well, faithful) X-Files game then play The X-Files Game. Yes, that's the actual title. al-azad fucked around with this message at 19:54 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 16:41
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Kaboom Dragoon posted:The only real problem I have with the game is the 'mental illness = violence' theme the game suggests and reinforces, but that's a discussion for another thread. I give some credit to the Outlast devs for having notes spread around that basically scream, "THESE PEOPLE ARE VIOLENT BECAUSE OF EVIL SCIENCE, NOT MENTAL ILLNESS!" granted that means jack-poo poo in the overall presentation but a half-assed attempt was made for better or for worse. The dlc actually tries a little harder to shift focus away from the mental illness issue. Various patients will actually help you and ask for help and there are at least 2 areas where a patient actually saves your life. The focus on the dlc is more about mustache-twirling evil done by medical companies and arguably the most dedicated and evil middle manager ever shown in a game. Of course stuff like the groom then shows up and all that collapses faster than a house of cards.
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Oct 19, 2014 18:49
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Honestly, only three or four different patients in Outlast ever attack you at all. The rest are completely passive and harmless, or occasionally helpful. It's not like you're slaughtering your way through an unending horde of manic depressives.
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Oct 19, 2014 18:52
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al-azad posted:And for a special mention, there's The X-Files: Resist or Serve, a bad Resident Evil clone that came out late on PS2. These games remind me of it because they have that same antiquated control style and clunky action, but I'll give these games a pass because they came out in 2000. If you want to play a decent (well, faithful) X-Files game then play The X-Files Game. Yes, that's the actual title. I like Resist or Serve a lot more myself just because it's a straight clone of Resident Evil 2 with Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny involved. Couldn't they only afford Mitch Pileggi for the FMV game? Plus the first puzzle of the FMV game is you're brought into your office and have to solve the puzzle of "what is my password for my computer that I just set up."
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Oct 19, 2014 18:55
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Cardiovorax posted:I think so, yes, but really, any justification would have worked. The important thing is that they had enough taste and good sense to avoid the whole rape and sexual violence angle. That puts it a step over dreck like Haunting Ground already. Outlast doesn't avoid sexual violence and rape at all though? Sure, it's not against women but it uses the threat of homosexual rape and genital mutilation for cheap horror in the dlc. I will agree that Haunting Grounds is bad though, which sucks because it has That Dog.
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Oct 19, 2014 18:58
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Improbable Lobster posted:Outlast doesn't avoid sexual violence and rape at all though? Sure, it's not against women but it uses the threat of homosexual rape and genital mutilation for cheap horror in the dlc.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:03
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Cardiovorax posted:I haven't played the DLC, but I guess that does invalidate my point. Shouldn't have expected better, really. Just so everyone knows how bad the DLC gets, here's a taste!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvuhlGoUK34&feature=player_detailpage#t=1091I didn't show a rather long sequence from earlier in the video that featured a bunch of patients getting castrated while you're forced to watch.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:23
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Yeah, no, I don't think I will, thanks a bunch.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:30
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Improbable Lobster posted:Outlast doesn't avoid sexual violence and rape at all though? Sure, it's not against women but it uses the threat of homosexual rape and genital mutilation for cheap horror in the dlc. That's actually kind of a subversion, though. I haven't played that DLC, but the fear of rape and murder of women is one of the most common tropes in horror in general, and I can't think of many examples where a male character is treated the same way.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:30
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Hakkesshu posted:That's actually kind of a subversion, though. I haven't played that DLC, but the fear of rape and murder of women is one of the most common tropes in horror in general, and I can't think of many examples where a male character is treated the same way.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:37
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Hakkesshu posted:That's actually kind of a subversion, though. I haven't played that DLC, but the fear of rape and murder of women is one of the most common tropes in horror in general, and I can't think of many examples where a male character is treated the same way. Yeah but being a subversion doesn't make it inheirently better. Especially since it's exploiting homophobia for horror, which is another tired and outdated trope. Hell, the entire threat of the Groom sequence is that he wants to rape and feminize you.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:38
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Everything about the groom is awful and that exact cutscene I linked earlier is where I basically just stopped playing. It's a long drawn out sequence that's heavily scripted and it's just a solid 7 minute long scene of the devs one-upping themselves. I still say the base game is a solid and well paced horror game but the dlc is a hot mess of ideas.
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Oct 19, 2014 19:41
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I thought the bulk of outlast was very mediocre, I might actually try the dlc now though because it sounds bad enough to be entertaining.
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Oct 19, 2014 22:09
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al-azad posted:18. The Blair Witch Experience I loved what I played of Nocturne, but then I got a good computer and now I can't play it. Nothing I do to get it running works. I do love that it and Bloodrayne are in the same universe though. For the curious, the castle and the artifact from chapter one of Nocturne is the same castle and artifact from chapter three(?) of Bloodrayne. Edit: vv Yes, Svetlana Lupescu. catlord fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Oct 19, 2014 |
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Oct 19, 2014 22:29
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catlord posted:I loved what I played of Nocturne, but then I got a good computer and now I can't play it. Nothing I do to get it running works. I do love that it and Bloodrayne are in the same universe though. For the curious, the castle and the artifact from chapter one of Nocturne is the same castle and artifact from chapter three(?) of Bloodrayne.
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Oct 19, 2014 23:04
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Neo Rasa posted:I like Resist or Serve a lot more myself just because it's a straight clone of Resident Evil 2 with Gillian Anderson and David Duchovny involved. Couldn't they only afford Mitch Pileggi for the FMV game? Plus the first puzzle of the FMV game is you're brought into your office and have to solve the puzzle of "what is my password for my computer that I just set up." They were filming for the movie, I believe. But I like it when licensed work focuses on original characters. It means they don't have to slavishly follow some kind of timeline and we usually get some kind of insight into the world or main cast we wouldn't normally see. Like Westwood made the right decision casting a different character in their Blade Runner game. I thought the story in that explored its themes better than the film. The X-Files Game suffers from all the instant failure trappings of its genre but it's pretty unique for an adventure game. Characters will actually get annoyed when you ask them to repeat dialog or do inane things, it adds to the cinematic feeling. Having characters comment on your actions as you do them subverts the normal internal dialog that accompanies like 99% of adventure games.
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Oct 20, 2014 00:10
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The Blade Runner game is a lot closer to its source material than the film is, and is also a fantastic game. Excellent atmosphere and the randomised events and multiple endings really helped its replay value. Everyone who remotely liked point and click adventures should play it, and from memory it was the last game Westwood made before they got consumed and assimilated by EA.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:00
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Cardiovorax posted:Think prison rape. It's not as prevalent, but calling it a subversion is really doing a disgusting thing too much of an honor. Eh, horror is all about vulnerability, fright, etc. It's refreshing someone tried sexual horror towards men in a game, I just wish it had been done better.
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Oct 20, 2014 01:37
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Niggurath posted:Are you having trouble with any particular ghost? And I think you should be able to refill the baseline film anytime you hit a save point camera, and if you've been upgrading your camera then most normal enemies are not too difficult to deal with. But I could probably give you a pointer if you're having trouble with a particular ghost. Well, I'm fighting the ghost with the sword right now after you have to put a rope on 4 statues. I don't know if it's supposed to be hard but I only half a health meter left with no medicine. I can only withstand 2 hits, then I'm dead. I haven't been able to beat him without getting hit twice so far. It's pretty frustrating because every time I die, I have to go back to this room and put the rope on all 4 statues again in a specific order. I think I'm going to start over. Even if I do manage to beat him, playing the rest of the game with half a health meter is probably going to be insanely frustrating. As for ghosts I've been having trouble with throughout the course of the game, the woman with no eyes is always a real bitch to run into. She gets me for at least 1 or 2 hits every time. Even if I think I'm doing good on her and she's almost beat, she'll suddenly teleport right on top of me. some bust on that guy fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Oct 20, 2014 |
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Oct 20, 2014 07:30
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Well, I'm fighting the ghost with the sword right now after you have to put a rope on 4 statues. I don't know if it's supposed to be hard but I only half a health meter left with no medicine. I can only withstand 2 hits, then I'm dead. I haven't been able to beat him without getting hit twice so far. It's pretty frustrating because every time I die, I have to go back to this room and put the rope on all 4 statues again in a specific order. The blind lady is a little bit easier, though you are right in that she will sometimes teleport right on top of you. Are you having any troubles with the fatal frame timing or is it just her getting right on top of you unexpectedly? And also have you been using the special power lenses at all? Cause they can definitely help.
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Oct 20, 2014 07:43
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Niggurath posted:Yeah, the head of the family is indeed a massive bitch. He's got a huge range to attack you since he's got that sword and his fatal frame opportunity is super small. And honestly I went back to see how I beat him and it was pretty much be using 'Stop' when he goes into his fatal frame and just blowing him up with a full blast....and even then that took about five solid shots with Type-14. It's not an easy fight and just a bit of forewarning but you meet him again in a much worse spot to fight him, so practice on him if you can. Do you mean the bonus functions? I haven't. They're so expensive and since you could only use it once, I figured it would be better to use all the money on getting the permanent upgrades. The blind lady usually teleports and attacks me right after I hit her once. If I run after I shoot her, she still gets me most of the time.
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Oct 20, 2014 08:07
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Are you morons upset that horror games have rape and sexual violence? Both of those things are actually horrifying and happen in real life. What the gently caress did you expect?
SBJ fucked around with this message at 08:23 on Oct 20, 2014 |
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Oct 20, 2014 08:19
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Super Ninja Fish posted:Do you mean the bonus functions? I haven't. They're so expensive and since you could only use it once, I figured it would be better to use all the money on getting the permanent upgrades. And just to make sure, you are hitting her during the fatal frame opportunity, right? Cause yeah, if you don't then it merely gets her attention and she'll immediately attack you. Likewise she relies of motion to track you and once you make any move, she'll immediately know where you are and attack you. It's a pretty clever enemy pattern since she'll usually get up right in your face and make you want to run, but that's when she'll know where to get you.
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Oct 20, 2014 08:24
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