|
systran posted:There's nothing wrong with a bit of whining to vent, but too many people use it as an excuse to not acknowledge their mistakes or faults, which prevents them from ever improving and also from ever even understanding how the game works: Wow that guy is mad.
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 20:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 00:17 |
|
|
systran posted:There's nothing wrong with a bit of whining to vent, but too many people use it as an excuse to not acknowledge their mistakes or faults, which prevents them from ever improving and also from ever even understanding how the game works: Is that supposed to be Rainbow Dash?
|
|
#
?
Oct 19, 2014 20:45
|
|
|
Poor Sagat  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0NuJKhWhx8&t=181sAmusing enough I found the right spot two matches in a row. The first time I just thought it was the game being retarded and was kind of mind hosed, and then it happened again in the next match and we went into training mode and sure enough from that spot it's easily repeatable. ps: ignore my mediocre USFIV play
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 00:08
|
|
|
That doesn't happen often after TU FADC forward but it does happen, it's not an Ultra- or Poison-specific problem. Tack on f.HK after the FADC, it does more damage, gets some meter back and AFAIK you'll never have floating problems that make the animation-starting hit whiff.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 00:42
|
|
|
I wish replays also recorded voices, because holy poo poo. Did a random ranked with Dhalsim vs. Dan. The second he saw the character selection, he immediately said, "Oh fuckin, really? *incoherent rage* I hate Sim. I'm going to kill him!" Throughout the match, he would alternate between rage and satisfaction upon hitting me. By round two, he was repeating "I'm going to kill you" every so often, especially when he actually managed to form a game plan and hit me with a few EX moves. Managed to knock him down, taunted, then ended the second round. Let's just say the term "salty" isn't strong enough to describe the guttural noises that followed briefly before the game ended.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
Mio Bison posted:That doesn't happen often after TU FADC forward but it does happen, it's not an Ultra- or Poison-specific problem. Tack on f.HK after the FADC, it does more damage, gets some meter back and AFAIK you'll never have floating problems that make the animation-starting hit whiff. I've had trade DP f.HK Ultra have that same whiff, actually worse cause he hit with the knee lunge then everything after that fell out
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 01:44
|
|
|
Nodoze posted:Poor Sagat Well, you should probably be using Ultra 2 against Poison anyway. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 06:45
|
|
|
Well, sometimes you pay just for trying to be nice. Meet up with a Hugo in Ranked, playing my Gouken. Within seconds it's clear he doesn't know how to get past the zoning (Get one bar, dash the first fireball then immediately EX.Lariat so I don't have time to Tatsu on reaction, by the way) and he's talking on his mic the whole time about it being impossible, so after the game, I add him on Steam, and explain this. Paraphrased: "I don't need any help with the match-up, it's retarded." Well okay then! (But you clearly do.)
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 09:50
|
|
|
Shockeh posted:Well, sometimes you pay just for trying to be nice. People who don't play Hugo just don't understand that he's low tier and therefore it's fine if you don't play well because it's your character holding you back. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 13:13
|
|
|
Storm- posted:Seems I fixed my crashes by simply reinstalling the game. Siivola posted:There's almost a dozen of us, and Steam doesn't recognize that ID. http://steamcommunity.com/id/BDStorm Hope this helps. I guess caps matter.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
I think there's something I'm not getting with Cammy's frame traps. I tried this in training mode with a friend and had him crouch tech but 90% of the time whatever I did wound up with a counter hit or a cr.lk beat me out. Most guides I've seen just say "use cl.MP, cr.MP or EX cannon strike". I'm guessing these just work after a single jab and not two, right? And I TK the cannon strike, right? How high off the ground should I be? I might eventually just have to get somebody to show me in training mode or something because I'm a big dummy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 14:56
|
|
|
Nemo's current tier list: S: Yun, Ibuki, Evil Ryu A: Poison, Zangief B: other characters C: Dee Jay, Hugo, Gen, Ryu, Dan 
Trykt fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 15:23
|
|
|
Victory is mine! You'll need to come back to the old man now Trykt!
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 15:28
|
|
|
Trykt posted:Nemo's current tier list: After like 4 months, the #1 Rolento player calls his own character meh? Not sure where Rose is, maybe the Japanese just aren't going to try and learn her at this stage?
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 15:35
|
|
|
I'm a little down on Ryu lately but I certainly didn't consider him anywhere near Dee Jay tier. He seemed pretty solidly in B tier along with 80% of the rest of the cast. I'd certainly bank on Nemo knowing something I don't know, but I'll also probably never play at or against the level required to classify Ryu as "worst". I'd be interested in learning more about his rationale for saying so. edit: Also maybe he's just being cheeky, with Daigo's recent rant about Ryu being a weak character Gen is also noteworthy on that list. I ripped that from Eventhubs where Xian actually showed up in the comments and said he agrees. He's been vocal about learning lots of other characters for a while, searching for a new main, so that's not really news I guess. double edit: Here's my own kneejerk reaction tier list I guess S: Yun, Evil Ryu A: Rose, Viper, Ibuki, Sakura, Dudley B: *everybody else* C: Hugo, Dan, Hakan D: Dee Jay Trykt fucked around with this message at 16:45 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:33
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:I think there's something I'm not getting with Cammy's frame traps. I tried this in training mode with a friend and had him crouch tech but 90% of the time whatever I did wound up with a counter hit or a cr.lk beat me out. What do you mean "after a single jab?" Ideally you do meaty cl. mp, cr. mp with no jabs. If you do a jab you lose some frame advantage from doing the cl. MP as a meaty. I'm too lazy to get into the frame data here, but you have to remember that "frame trap" encompasses a lot of things, but when good players telling you how to play other good players talk about frame traps they are USUALLY talking about something that catches good players who delay their throw techs rather than people who mash crouch tech as fast as humanly possible. Against crouch tech mashing you want to create a very small gap between the hits, so if you do an EX cannon strike (and yes you always TK it) you want to do it very early. Against someone who is actually waiting and trying to tech on reaction it's better to delay it, as if you do it super early they will end up just blocking it. I'm too lazy to look up the frame date, but for cl. mp, cr. mp, it's good because if the cl. mp hits, you have time to hit confirm into cr. mp xx drill. If the cl. mp is blocked, you then have the option of tick throwing, of going into another block string, of going for a further frametrap of the EX cannon strike (which if it hits you can hit confirm into a full combo), of blocking and baiting a reversal, and so on. Just remember that whatever you end up doing, if you're testing it in training mode against fast as possible crouch tech mashing, you want to try to do it so there is only a few frame gap where they can throw out any normals. If the gap is too large their cr. short will become active and hit you or push you away if you block it. In general: The timing that beats people mashing crouch techs will not catch people who delay tech, and the timing that beats delay tech can be susceptible to crouch teching, depending on distance. You often see stuff like the "gootecks shimmy" that specifically bait the crouch tech in order to whiff punish it rather than to hit it out of the startup like a normal, closer-up frametrap does. angel opportunity fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
Trykt posted:
This is mostly my feelings, but I think maybe Bison & Poison should be A-, and Dan is probably C-.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 16:59
|
|
|
systran posted:What do you mean "after a single jab?" Ideally you do meaty cl. mp, cr. mp with no jabs. If you do a jab you lose some frame advantage from doing the cl. MP as a meaty. Ahhhh, that's what I wasn't getting. I thought you were meant to cr.jab then walk up and either tick throw or do cl.mp. Didn't realize you did it as a meaty. Okay, so for people mashing crouch techs I do TK cannon strike, because I've been getting hit by that a lot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:02
|
|
|
Dhalsim is so low tier you guys. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:04
|
|
|
Tae posted:After like 4 months, the #1 Rolento player calls his own character meh? I feel like choosing to lump his character in mid-tier with 90% of the cast is a pretty bold move, considering a lot of people think he's A Bad Character.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:15
|
|
|
Gammatron 64 posted:Ahhhh, that's what I wasn't getting. I thought you were meant to cr.jab then walk up and either tick throw or do cl.mp. Didn't realize you did it as a meaty. You CAN do a jab and walk up with cl. mp, but if they mash crouch tech they will probably hit you. If you scare your opponent into being afraid to press buttons you can start getting away with stuff like that, but unless you have demonstrated that you can counter-hit frame trap into big combos, it's unlikely you'll get away with it. EX TK cannon strike done before their crouch tech can become active will kill the crouch tech. You become airborne before their move is active, and even though the cannon strike isn't active right away, it hits them while the cr. short is still out and lands you usually a counter-hit, which gives you lots of time to confirm into a huge combo at point-blank range.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:38
|
|
|
Firstborn posted:This is mostly my feelings, but I think maybe Bison & Poison should be A-, and Dan is probably C-. I don't fully understand what makes Poison or Juri A tier as has been suggested quite a bit. Maybe it's a less of a "these chars have some crazy bullshit" like Yun and ERyu (and in my opinion Viper) and more just that they don't have any particularly bad matchups and maybe a good number of advantaged ones.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:42
|
|
|
Right now imho I think Poison is speculation, as in she is due for someone out there to take it to Nemo/Pepeday levels and show everyone else the potential realized. Whether or not it'll actually happen who knows but it affects where people believe she should be in tier lists.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 17:51
|
|
|
I don't think tier lists matter all that much for the majority of players. Even then, all it takes is one guy to show everyone they were wrong about character X.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:03
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:I don't think tier lists matter all that much for the majority of players. This is true as far as comparing who has more good/bad match-ups because the way those play out can shift dramatically as you approach higher and higher levels of play. I still think it's interesting and useful to think about tier lists in more generalized terms, like how much more frequently Yun and ERyu can spike big damage than others, how LITTLE damage Gen does even on big combos, or how much more meter Rose builds than most characters (particularly other zoners), etc. Those properties don't really change based on whether you are playing at THE HIGHEST LEVEL or not, they just assume basic competency. Those are the kind of things I'd try to consider when giving a character an arbitrary ranking above or below others I guess.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
systran posted:You CAN do a jab and walk up with cl. mp, but if they mash crouch tech they will probably hit you. If you scare your opponent into being afraid to press buttons you can start getting away with stuff like that, but unless you have demonstrated that you can counter-hit frame trap into big combos, it's unlikely you'll get away with it. Awesome! I think my Cammy play is going to get a great deal stronger now that I know I can blow up crouch techs with stuff like EX Divekick, cl.HP, cr.MK xx HCS.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 18:44
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:Even then, all it takes is one guy to show everyone they were wrong about character X. Yeah, but do you understand how that works? Someone has to put in hard work to do that. If dan has a magic secret button sequence that makes him top tier, and nobody knows about it, then it doesn't matter. And if some guy out there spent hours and hours working out the magic sequence, then he gets to surprise people for one major tournament. It's not that people are "wrong" or "sleeping on" whatever character. Most people can't do the stuff where you actually figure out how to utilize a character that nobody plays. You can't just go watch youtubes and copy some guys setups. 40 OZ fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Oct 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 20:17
|
|
|
Is this the post your tier list thread S: Yun, Evil Ryu A: Viper, Zangief, Rose, Ibuki, Poison B: Everyone else B-: Blanka, Rolento, T-Hawk, Gen C: Honda, Dan, Dhalsim D: Hugo, Dee Jay By the way I wandered into the player statistics tab in Ultra and noticed I have played some 17k games of endless + ranked, gently caress that's a lot even though it obviously includes AE too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
I'll never get used to people saying Rose is top-tier. Not that I disagree, it's just...weird. But she was the middest of mid-tiers in 2012, nerfing her weaknesses and buffing her a bit did the trick, I suppose.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Dias posted:I'll never get used to people saying Rose is top-tier. Not that I disagree, it's just...weird. But she was the middest of mid-tiers in 2012, nerfing her weaknesses and buffing her a bit did the trick, I suppose. I'll never get used to people saying Zangief is top tier. Snake/Dragon Eyez is not a fair representation of the character. No other zangief is performing even close to his level (Itabashi for example). He also has a number of 4-6 or 3-7 matchups against popular characters (Sagat, Evil Ryu). I feel like Zangief is the perfect example of what can be done with an average B level character by someone who has completely mastered them. But since we're on the topic: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tiw0PTb3Od8
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 21:37
|
|
|
Yes Itabashi was only 9th at EVO, dude is just bad. Then he lucked his way to second place at Thaiger Uppercut, what a scrub. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIy4ZiIO8r4 Here's Hagejin slapping around Daigo with Gief from a week ago.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 22:09
|
|
|
Zingih posted:Yes Itabashi was only 9th at EVO, dude is just bad. Then he lucked his way to second place at Thaiger Uppercut, what a scrub. Every time a Zangief Green Hands into back dash against an opponent's wakeup and then punishes with Heavy SPD an angel gets its wings. Your point that Snake Eyez is not the only good Gief stands- I still wouldn't put the character above B tier.
|
|
#
?
Oct 20, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
When/why did we move away from tier lists based on matchups and over to tier lists based on gut feelings?
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
I thought about making an effort-y post talking about why Ryu does fine against most divekick/RTSD characters and has glaring weaknesses against other archetypes that players fail to exploit but instead I'll express my complete lack of surprise that most of the Eventhubs comments section is confident that they know how to play SF4 and Nemo does not.Intel&Sebastian posted:Right now imho I think Poison is speculation, as in she is due for someone out there to take it to Nemo/Pepeday levels and show everyone else the potential realized. The #3 BP card in Japan is (former top Akuma player) -6's Poison and there are four more Poisons in the top 50. Haven't seen any videos of -6 in Ultra unfortunately, IIRC he's an Osaka player so he probably doesn't attend many/any Tokyo events.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:11
|
|
|
Smegmatron posted:When/why did we move away from tier lists based on matchups and over to tier lists based on gut feelings? after they added like 30 characters
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 01:14
|
|
|
Smegmatron posted:When/why did we move away from tier lists based on matchups and over to tier lists based on gut feelings? Because there's no difference.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 03:22
|
|
|
Smegmatron posted:When/why did we move away from tier lists based on matchups and over to tier lists based on gut feelings? I've never seen a match-up list/chart that didn't consist of "gut feelings" or other completely arbitrary data anyway. Even if you could get an accurate analysis of how a particular match-up is currently played reduced to a 10-point form (and you can't) it would only be valid as a snapshot of how it's played *currently*, it could easily change based on developments players continue to make with those characters. The best form of this we have currently is getting the gut feelings of lots of players that most people would agree play at a level where their opinion matters, and then comparing how closely those different players' opinions align. In other words, the hot messy dump of info charts steaming up Eventhubs or /r/SF4  incomingCompletely separate discussion about the format for evaluating match-ups: I think discussing any one particular match-up in terms of it being "6-4" (x tends to beat out/do more damage than y) or "3-7" (x loses to y unless they can win a big gamble) or whatever is very useful. That's constructive because even if "6-4" or whatever is an imperfect way of comparing advantages and disadvantages between the characters we can talk about specifics. The match-up can be deconstructed and we can even talk about if a particular player's style is more likely or less likely to allow them to win it. I don't think adding up the points total of all a character's match-ups and comparing that to other characters' points totals is useful at all except maybe to find really significant outliers. Summing up Winning/Even/Losing totals is marginally more useful when evaluating a character's overall efficacy as a "tournament winning" character. But, as mentioned, I don't think the numbers can be trusted enough to come to any really meaningful conclusions when added up. Lastly, even calling a match "5-5" can be somewhat misleading; for example Ryu vs. Blanka, that's considered a fairly even match even though Blanka has hard counters to fireballs and generally controls Ryu very well and Ryu can't usually punish Blanka balls on block or safejump him reliably or generally go for airborne tricks at all. In practice it plays out like a 6-4 in Blanka's favor for most of the match. It only sorta comes back to even due to Blanka's relatively low damage and Ryu spiking pretty high damage on Blanka's mistakes. That's still vastly oversimplifying the match but it's much better than adding +0 to your total for How Good Ryu Is, anyway. Trykt fucked around with this message at 05:00 on Oct 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
Is there a way to replace all the stages with training stage? My nVidia card died, so I'm stuck with my 4670k and its onboard GPU for a few weeks. Setting stage detail to low nets 100fps in the benchmark, but also means some characters / stages are quite hard to see due to the background being almost fully black. Setting it to high means some stages push fps a bit too close to 60 for my liking. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 17:05
|
|
|
HoboWithAShotgun posted:Is there a way to replace all the stages with training stage? My nVidia card died, so I'm stuck with my 4670k and its onboard GPU for a few weeks. Setting stage detail to low nets 100fps in the benchmark, but also means some characters / stages are quite hard to see due to the background being almost fully black. Setting it to high means some stages push fps a bit too close to 60 for my liking. Turn everything to max, become one of those people with Rank C computers that turn every match into a power point presentation.
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 18:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 10, 2024 00:17 |
|
|
Trykt posted:In practice it plays out like a 6-4 in Blanka's favor for most of the match. It only sorta comes back to even due to Blanka's relatively low damage and Ryu spiking pretty high damage on Blanka's mistakes. Ambiguous hop upball red focus full AA U2 does 500, cr.MK st.LP upball red focus AA U2 does 450  More importantly if Blanka gets a life lead, stops going ham and backs up the round is over. There's a video of Daigo Ryu vs. Nishikin from the early days of Ultra and when Daigo is holding down-back and inching forward every five seconds hoping Nishikin will throw the round away you can almost see the wheels in his head spinning like "why the gently caress am I playing this character".
|
|
#
?
Oct 21, 2014 22:43
|
|