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Agreed. Tau have hooves, idealism, and robot friends, and are therefore the best.
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Oct 20, 2014 21:47
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That Slaanesh list Lord Thrust posted is a big improvement. 1 of the lists I played against on saturday was that sort of set-up: castled havocs behind an ADL, obliterators coming in. Rounded out by summoned daemons (in this case played by your allies. It worked really well, admittedly he had 4 heldrakes at 1650. Question about IG poo poo. My army has a lot of infantry, and I am trying to specialise down the other components of the army. -I am using currently a 30 man squad with meltaguns, power axes and a priest. Really happy with this atm, does anyone have tips on other good characters to put in? I was thinking of an inquisitor with rad grenades. Too much at 40pts, 70 with psyker upgrade? Azrael is a big commitment given the requirement for other DA allies, but short of that I wouldn't mind adding characters. - Also using 30 man squad with plasma guns/autocannons, not as keen on that. Seems expensive for what it does - sit in cover. Thinking of 20 men with just lascannons, as plasma guns are often out of range. Still keeping the commissar obviously. - Pretty happy with tanks, going to keep experimenting with squadron setups. Was so very happy when Paskisher wiped an unwounded chapter master on bike off the board in one round, love that guy. Does anyone have any good examples of leman-russ heavy lists backed up by dismounted infantry? - Stormtroopers, or scions. Allied in with Militarum tempestus? Seems almost a waste of an allies slot, all they get over the obscene amount one gets in the AM codex is some good orders for their command squad. I really like at least 1 drop melta squad in any list though. - Assassins. Anyone seen the new data slate and have any comments? All of them seem interesting but situation dependant to me, not sure if they are all-round usable enough for competitive play. - Inquisition in general. Are there any frequent uses of henchman units, rather than attached IC hqs in tournament lists? I know it's more of a casual idea, but I could make such a gnarly assault unit to go in a land raider, or a very plasma-filled foot squad, perhaps in some sort of fortification?
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Oct 20, 2014 21:53
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Speaking of escalation leagues in general, I want to run one in my club, using planetary empires. Any ideas and tips/tricks?
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Oct 20, 2014 21:57
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Genghis Cohen posted:That Slaanesh list Lord Thrust posted is a big improvement. 1 of the lists I played against on saturday was that sort of set-up: castled havocs behind an ADL, obliterators coming in. Rounded out by summoned daemons (in this case played by your allies. It worked really well, admittedly he had 4 heldrakes at 1650. Mind posting the full list you used?
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Oct 20, 2014 21:59
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Direwolf posted:If you want you could screen him with the Rhinos, but unless you do a full biker squad he's going to be alone at 1,000 points unfortunately. I've never used Noise Marines but they get a ton of ignores-cover shots with the blasters for their points, and will be super resilient with the Aegis. But CSM don't need to really worry about Morale much anyways, LD 9 will pass leadership checks 5/6 of the time, so if you're paying hte points tax just for Fearless there are probably better ways to spend it / get more bodies or something. All good points and very compelling. Between my propensity for spending dumb amounts of money on space mans and the guy that I'm teaming up with's giant collection, I can field everything you're talking about. I think I'm sold. I can build a biker squad around the biker lord when I've got to go alone and it's what I wanted to do anyway. What are your thoughts on a steed of Slaneesh vs. the bike?
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Oct 20, 2014 22:01
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Esser-Z posted:30k has no Tau. No Tau, no sell. The tau were still working out how to make fire at this period and the Orks had been smashed to pieces at Ullanor though.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:01
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serious gaylord posted:The tau were still working out how to make fire at this period and the Orks had been smashed to pieces at Ullanor though. There could be Tau from the future, who invented time travel and have come back to stop some calamity!
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Oct 20, 2014 22:08
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Esser-Z posted:30k has no Tau. No Tau, no sell. The orks are "missing" but you can play any of the races just relying on the 30k Force Org charts and it works pretty well.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:09
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Ghost Hand posted:The orks are "missing" but you can play any of the races just relying on the 30k Force Org charts and it works pretty well. Oh, really? Hmmmm. How much do those tend to differ from the 40k ones?
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Oct 20, 2014 22:10
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JerryLee posted:Okay, yeah, I was pretty unclear on the terminology, sorry. Stay and injunction were linked in my mind for some reason. Direwolf posted:GW won a judgment in the previous iteration of these suits and the assets are being frozen in anticipation of discovery, not any additional wrongdoing. Ah I get it.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:12
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Esser-Z posted:Oh, really? Hmmmm. How much do those tend to differ from the 40k ones? Bear in mind games of 30k are intended to be played at 2000+ points... (except for the smaller games mentioned in book 3 which play entirely different) The force orgs are too terribly different (especially now that 7th edition is out) but they have a few idiosyncrasies associated with them. LoW slot can only be so many points, etc etc..
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Oct 20, 2014 22:13
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Esser-Z posted:God, the Contemptor is so so SO much better than a regular dreadnought. I really need to get around to assembling mine. And the rules. Even the rules are better. krushgroove posted:30K question: Is there a way to do 30K in an escalation league style campaign? I've never done an escalation league but I just received my first Horus Heresy book and want to get my buddies into it. I've read many of the books, none of the other guys have, but a couple of them are aware of much of the story. Whatever you go with, pump the points up a little bit. Its tough to make small lists in 30k that are flexible. Ghost Hand posted:Bear in mind games of 30k are intended to be played at 2000+ points... (except for the smaller games mentioned in book 3 which play entirely different) What's worked for me is this- use the BrB if you're playing other 40k armies. Use the Age of Darkness force org if you're sticking to 30k. As for points, 'over 2000' gets tossed around a lot, but the reality is that its well balanced at lower points. You just can't bring as many toys. The ammount of firepower you can pack in 2500 is just stupid.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:30
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Hra Mormo posted:Aren't casino dice also terrible for tabletop gaming because they're so heavy and sharp that they either just plant the gently caress down on the table and refuse to tumble or land on an edge and get chipped to poo poo if the surface isn't properly padded? Depends on your setup and how you roll, yeah. You don't want to roll them on extremely hard surfaces, some kind of padding will greatly extend their life and they can potentially leave small divots/etc. in soft woods. As far as the stopping on edges, you mainly have to roll them into something to encourage a tumble, rather than letting the change in momentum from the impact itself do the rolling like you would with a rounded die. Short version, if for some reason you're possessed with the idea to use casino dice, build a felt lined dice tray or something and roll them laterally into the sides of it. If you're already crazy enough to buy casino dice in those numbers, you probably won't balk at spending a bit more for that. I use casino dice for 1d6 RPG systems since I only needed one per player 
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Oct 20, 2014 22:35
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BULBASAUR posted:As for points, 'over 2000' gets tossed around a lot, but the reality is that its well balanced at lower points. You just can't bring as many toys. The ammount of firepower you can pack in 2500 is just stupid. Considering Alan Bligh and I talked about this. I'll go with the intention of the author... though yes. You CAN play it at lower - but it is designed for larger games.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:48
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Ghost Hand posted:Considering Alan Bligh and I talked about this. I'll go with the intention of the author... though yes. You CAN play it at lower - but it is designed for larger games. If you spent more time in CD, you'd know that authorial intent doesn't carry much weight around here.
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Oct 20, 2014 22:59
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CineD is the BTP of SA forums posting.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:07
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The smaller you go in 30k the more restrictive RoW get. The unique FOC does allow for some cheesy nonsense but between the high starting costs for squads and prevalence of non-compulsory troops, most builds get 'better' non-linearly as you increase max points. Most of the 'good' small lists are AdMech and it seems like (do you know, Ghost Hand) that they're definitely one of the more common 30k choices.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:14
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As it is, Forge World also says you're free and clear to play Heresy armies against 40k armies. I can't actually think of any way Ork, Eldar, Dark Eldar, or Necron lists would be any different in the 30k era. Tau simply aren't spacefaring yet.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:19
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Still, if you really want to play Tau in 30k it's as easy as waving your hands and saying "the Warp did it."
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Oct 20, 2014 23:33
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Its pretty well balanced, more so than a lot of the top tier dexes out there right now. I feel the reason Bligh recommends 2500 points is to help represent massive battles that make it feel like you’re in the cataclysmic heresy. Regardless if it was his intention, the ‘pay less the more you spend’ design approach really balanced the hell out of the army at 1500-2000 points. You have to take economic options and make sacrifices in areas in order to make a list work, or pay the premium and have less points to work with. Once you ‘unlock’ all your requirements though, you get a lot of flexibly in your lists. At that point it swings the other direction. By and large the 30k armies are points and not FOC limited so once you’re past the up front costs all the cheap heavy support balloons in a scary way. REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:The smaller you go in 30k the more restrictive RoW get. The unique FOC does allow for some cheesy nonsense but between the high starting costs for squads and prevalence of non-compulsory troops, most builds get 'better' non-linearly as you increase max points. Admech are probably the best allies for Legions, but I bet the SA will be up there. Each army has its perks and quirks though. Admech plugs some holes in the Legion army has and the Legion army plugs holes in the Admech army. I might hate on GW a lot, but the balance and design in 30k is really refreshing (except for whoever decided assault squads should cost 250 points for 10 marines without upgreydds, gently caress that) e: 
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Oct 20, 2014 23:34
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Rapey Joe Stalin posted:CineD is the BTP of SA forums posting. I want to quote this from now until the end of time.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:35
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Moola posted:I want to quote this from now until the end of time. Blue Table Posting
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Oct 20, 2014 23:37
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One thing to beware of if you play a 40k army against a 30k: 30k has some of the meanest special characters ever to grace the battlefield, including not only the Primarchs but also characters like Sigismund, Kharn, and Sevatarion who will happily slapchop supposedly dangerous melee units.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:41
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Sigismund is the best character in the game. Hes far too good for his points.
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Oct 20, 2014 23:46
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I just looked up Sigismund and couldn't believe all the special rules they gave him, especially for only 230 points. He's so much better than Abaddon it hurts.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:05
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Too bad he's an imperial fist.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:06
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Sigismund stands a fighting chance against the weaker primarchs. I've always wanted to see what happens when he gets in close against the Tau.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:08
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BULBASAUR posted:
I was hoping for more ruffs and puffy sleeves. RIP, puffy sleeve guardsman An Angry Bug posted:Agreed. Tau have hooves, idealism, and robot friends, and are therefore the best. This is 30k, the Imperium has all of these except the hooves.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:12
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Can anyone confirm/deny the rules for the DE Shadowfield. Battlescribe is telling me that the 2+ save goes away at the end of the phase for the rest of the game if it's failed. If that's true then holy poo poo 
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Oct 21, 2014 00:15
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Boon posted:Can anyone confirm/deny the rules for the DE Shadowfield. Battlescribe is telling me that the 2+ save goes away at the end of the phase for the rest of the game if it's failed. Yeah it's end of the phase. To be honest it isn't that big of a deal since t3 is doubled out easily.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:23
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panascope posted:I just looked up Sigismund and couldn't believe all the special rules they gave him, especially for only 230 points. He's so much better than Abaddon it hurts. And he gets the fun things like forcing refills on the invuln save that they took away from the swarmlord.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:27
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REAL MUSCLE MILK posted:Too bad he's an imperial fist. Pretty much this. Their rules aren't that bad, overall, but they do sit in the upper end of 'ok but not great' valley
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Oct 21, 2014 00:31
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Cythereal posted:Sigismund stands a fighting chance against the weaker primarchs. I've always wanted to see what happens when he gets in close against the Tau. Lots and lots of screaming drowning out the sounds of gory dismemberment I imagine.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:34
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Cooked Auto posted:Lots and lots of screaming drowning out the sounds of gory dismemberment I imagine. Excellent. And really, would you expect any less from the First Captain of the Imperial Fists and first Chapter Master/Grandmaster of the Black Templars?
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Oct 21, 2014 00:42
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Sigismund was a loving failure and he was only made to lead the Templars because he was a fuckup, this is canonical
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Oct 21, 2014 00:48
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Naramyth posted:Yeah it's end of the phase. To be honest it isn't that big of a deal since t3 is doubled out easily. Yeah, but against stuff that doesn't double you out it is pretty huge that FNP can stop it from dropping.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:54
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ABD is going to write old man Sigismund vs Abaddon in his next book. The mini preview for it in the back of Talon of Horus is pretty great.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:56
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Chiwie posted:ABD is going to write old man Sigismund vs Abaddon in his next book. The mini preview for it in the back of Talon of Horus is pretty great. I'm not looking forward to it, to be honest. All of ADB's 40k works have felt very same-y to me. He tells a good story with good characters, but he's almost as bad as the Ciaphas Cain books when it comes to my sense of "Haven't I read this before?" when I read each book of his.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:05
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Naramyth posted:Yeah it's end of the phase. To be honest it isn't that big of a deal since t3 is doubled out easily. Original argument deleted. It's still amazingly useful to tank wounds on for Wave-Serpent mounted D-Scythes. Even if he dies there are only so many S6+ weapons in an army and they will ahve to deal with both the D-Scythes, the Wave Serpent, and the (probably) advancing Wraithknights. Rapey Joe Stalin posted:Yeah, but against stuff that doesn't double you out it is pretty huge that FNP can stop it from dropping. I don't think FNP would stop it from dropping because you would have still technically failed the save. Boon fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 01:17
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Lord Thrust posted:All good points and very compelling. Between my propensity for spending dumb amounts of money on space mans and the guy that I'm teaming up with's giant collection, I can field everything you're talking about. I think I'm sold. I can build a biker squad around the biker lord when I've got to go alone and it's what I wanted to do anyway. What are your thoughts on a steed of Slaneesh vs. the bike? Well, a bike gives you relentless twin linked bolters, +1T (and therefore more instant death survival), turbo boost faster than cavalry run; the steed gives you +1A and Outflank, which means that you will come in later and possibly on the wrong side of the board. Bike is nearly better in every way and gives you guns and survivability and you'll probably charge turn 2 instead of turn 3/4 from being in reserves. However, I really like the idea of the steed? So I would put him on a steed and call it a bike, ha.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:17
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