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Is there a thread where we discuss non-war Eastern Europe poo poo? Music, movies, events, funny stories, comparing cultural quirks. Hell, even laughing at our stupid politicians' gaffes and those funny-sad anecdotes born of daily friction with the carcass of socialist institutions would be fine. I'm not saying don't discuss it, it's the biggest thing happening over here. I'd just like to read about normal stuff every now and then, I see enough doom and gloom off-forums.
SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 00:03
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The article says the planes landing gear got damaged on take-off so the pilot turned around once in the air, his engines caught fire, and he lands back on the runway where the engine fires cause the whole plane to go up in flames. It does not say whether the pilot dumped fuel before landing but if he didn't then this was either one bad pilot error or the CEO ordered him to takeoff. Either way the snowplow should have been gone from the runway, unless the employees running them ignore their radios. Also I think those missile hits on explosive caches were quite good hits. Will be interesting to see where the russian-separatist leaders go to from here.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:07
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SaltyJesus posted:Is there a thread where we discuss non-war Eastern Europe poo poo? Music, movies, events, funny stories, comparing cultural quirks. Hell, even laughing at our stupid politicians' gaffes and those funny-sad anecdotes born of daily friction with the carcass of socialist institutions would be fine. I'm not saying don't discuss it, it's the biggest thing happening over here. I'd just like to read about normal stuff every now and then, I see enough doom and gloom off-forums. There's a Russian-language thread in SAL that I think is your best bet. Of course, that only applies for Russian stuff and not Eastern Europe as a whole, but apart from that nothing really spring to mind. I suppose one of us could start that thread up somewhere? Sounds like something that belongs in another subforum, but idk which would be best for it.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:13
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I'm totally in favor of a separate Ukrainian crisis thread from the Eastern European one. The Israel/Palestine thread is separate from the Middle East one, so we could do something like that?
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Oct 21, 2014 00:45
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SaltyJesus posted:Is there a thread where we discuss non-war Eastern Europe poo poo? Music, movies, events, funny stories, comparing cultural quirks. Hell, even laughing at our stupid politicians' gaffes and those funny-sad anecdotes born of daily friction with the carcass of socialist institutions would be fine. I'm not saying don't discuss it, it's the biggest thing happening over here. I'd just like to read about normal stuff every now and then, I see enough doom and gloom off-forums.
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Oct 21, 2014 00:46
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This thread is for all news and items of interest in Eastern Europe. Ukraine has dominated the thread obviously, but I've enjoyed the contributions from my dad, 3peat, and others. If there is something of interest you want to post here, feel free to do so.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:12
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There was some cool chat in here about holiday traditions a month or two ago(I think) if you wanna go digging back.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:19
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I'm thinking between things like smartphones and satellite imagery it wouldn't be that hard for someone to figure out where a cache is for the UA.
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Oct 21, 2014 01:32
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McDowell posted:I'm thinking between things like smartphones and satellite imagery it wouldn't be that hard for someone to figure out where a cache is for the UA. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/21/w...WT.nav=top-news quote:DONETSK, Ukraine — The Ukrainian Army appears to have fired cluster munitions on several occasions into the heart of Donetsk, unleashing a weapon banned in much of the world into a rebel-held city with a peacetime population of more than one million, according to physical evidence at the scene and interviews with witnesses and victims. Some of the language is surprising for the NYT but it is what it is.
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Oct 21, 2014 02:26
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SaltyJesus posted:Is there a thread where we discuss non-war Eastern Europe poo poo? Music, movies, events, funny stories, comparing cultural quirks. Hell, even laughing at our stupid politicians' gaffes and those funny-sad anecdotes born of daily friction with the carcass of socialist institutions would be fine. I'm not saying don't discuss it, it's the biggest thing happening over here. I'd just like to read about normal stuff every now and then, I see enough doom and gloom off-forums. I would be so down with such a thread (just don't make it in gbs)
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Oct 21, 2014 07:53
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Make one in D&D and one in GBS. GBS can produce some real funny stuff.
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Oct 21, 2014 08:08
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Baloogan posted:Russia just assassinated a french oil and gas conglomerate CEO. The Russian political twitters I follow insist that the deceased was an ally of Putin, so the version with a drunk snowplow driver is more likely.
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Oct 21, 2014 08:33
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HUGE PUBES A PLUS posted:Russian authorities are shutting down McDonalds restaurants all over the country. O`Rly?  This is disturbing news. More disturbing than Ebola! How we will live without lovely McDs? :Weasley-fear-face.jpg:
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Oct 21, 2014 08:56
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To be honest last time I was in Moscow two months ago there was no shortage of smiling Colonels on every corner but very few McDonalds ads. Probably the franchise owner was already taking a hit in profits when they got into the faux-patriotic shitstorm. "Yeah get that trash yankee food out of my country!" *buys a cat shawarma from a rusty stand*
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Oct 21, 2014 09:20
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fatherboxx posted:To be honest last time I was in Moscow two months ago there was no shortage of smiling Colonels on every corner but very few McDonalds ads. Probably the franchise owner was already taking a hit in profits when they got into the faux-patriotic shitstorm. Eh I see plenty of people lining up at local McDonalds when I go by them. I just went to the food court at Cheremushki and most of the stands had no lines EXPECT for McDonalds (including KFC). I didn't get a sense at all they were being boycotted.
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Oct 21, 2014 09:32
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIoarndHIk I guess the guys in the video belongs to the very special forces. Also, map over some of the russians fighting in Ukraine, would think it would be more from Caucasus. http://belsat.eu/en/articles/where-russians-come-fight-ukraine-infographics/ Rincewinds fucked around with this message at 10:19 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 10:15
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I don't really think much people are going to change their consumption based on calls for boycott. Some may even call for a boycott while not following up on it themselves, like calling for an import ban for Apple devices on twitter using iPhone to post the tweet.
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Oct 21, 2014 10:36
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"Russians visit annexed Crimea" on Ukrainian TV. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_30r-lpCgbY
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Oct 21, 2014 11:58
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I'm coming back to Poland after working for a year in Germany, since I got a better job (I know, right?). I have a week to go and I'm getting more and more annoyed. As cold and distanced as Germans are, when I think about the Eastern European levels of every day passive-agression I'll have to face in Warsaw, it turns my stomach. Last time I was there in September, I got flipped off by a cyclist, shouted insults by a driver and had my car scratched, all in a time span of 15 minutes. Last weekend, I sat at a cafe here, with people smoking, people with babies and people with pets, and for 2 hours nobody argued with anyone. In Poland, there would be blood. I'll miss the roads. I'll miss the healthcare. It's a better career and personal move, but drat it, it's not easy.
Mokotow fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 12:12
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What industry do you work in, if I may ask? How does the job market situation compare in Poland and Germany? You guys supposedly fared best under free market reorganization.
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Oct 21, 2014 12:27
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Cyclist in Warsaw are massive cunts, I saw them force their way on red light and push aside pedestrians on crossing. They go in front of cars on traffic lights, and when you get green you have to adjust to their pace. They avoid using bike lanes, because "gently caress drivers, I can shave 30 seconds off my time, let them collectively waste hours". As far as drivers go, I've been driving to Warsaw for about a decade now, and it gets progressively better. Krakow is worse, especially if you've got Warsaw plates. Of course the better someone's car the higher chance of acting as an rear end in a top hat, with special clause to usual sales rep. cars like Opel Insignia or Skoda everything.
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Oct 21, 2014 12:57
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SaltyJesus posted:What industry do you work in, if I may ask? How does the job market situation compare in Poland and Germany? You guys supposedly fared best under free market reorganization. I work in IT/software development, though more on the design and research side of things. My new employer has it's technical office in Warsaw, but conducts it's business in Germany and other EU countries, and, as far as I can tell, it's the case for many firms, not only in the IT sector. Since I have experience working in Germany, but also speak english well and I'm Polish, I'm a good candidate for many of these companies. Jobs here are really uneven. I was lucky to pick the right education and field, and so I make OK money and don't have a problem finding a job (though back in 2005 it took me 2 years to find what I wanted). I make less what I would on a similar position in Germany, but taxes and cost of living are much lower, so at the end of the month I can consume more. On the other hand, my fiancé, a psychologist, earns around 600 euros a month in a public hospital. Out situation exemplifies the job market - you either hang around the 600 euro a month area, or you go straight to the more-or-less western european rates. It's a very unfair split and a glass ceiling sort of situation that's causing a lot of tension, especially since it's not always clear why certain people fall into the lower bracket instead of a high one. It's not uncommon to have people divided by a single level in the organisational hierarchy earn 5x as much as people below them. Outside of the big cities, there are jobs mostly in the large factories and logistic centres (like Amazon, who jet opened two in western Poland), doing outsourced work for European companies. It's a lovely paying job that'll get you the minimum, but I guess is a step forward from the rampant unemployment of the past decade, at least insofar as getting shot in the head is an improvement over getting suffocated with a pillow. (sorry for all the gloomy, I am adjusting back to Polish levels so I don't go into shock next week) As for Germany - I am in the South, close to Austria and Switzerland and there's tonnes of jobs here, especially the simple ones. Ironically, it might be easier to get specialist jobs in Poland, though. Maybe not paying as well, but at least somewhat attainable - a colleague tried to rent an apartment in Munich last month, and tenants get around 200 applicants per apartment there, which kinda makes it unlovable. alex314 posted:As far as drivers go, I've been driving to Warsaw for about a decade now, and it gets progressively better. Krakow is worse, especially if you've got Warsaw plates. Of course the better someone's car the higher chance of acting as an rear end in a top hat, with special clause to usual sales rep. cars like Opel Insignia or Skoda everything. I'm from Warsaw, and it's where I learned to drive. I don't want to be "that guy", but after a year in Germany, I don't plan on coming back to the Warsaw school of "defensive driving" (oh God, how I hate that term). I'll just putt along 50 km/h an hour on the right lane, German-style. I want to stay as far away from conflict as possible. Mokotow fucked around with this message at 13:09 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 13:02
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Here's a fantastic video of negotiations between ATO and separatists. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52xlwIQcmDg It's really long and unfortunately there are no subtitles to it, but it's very important to note how civil the discussion is. Both sides even throw some jokes around and generally try to focus on what can be done and how to make communication between sides clearer to work on possible peaceful solutions. Also, both sides blame politicians for bringing too much tension between Western and Eastern Ukraine by delving too much into WWII history instead of leaving it for history books. E: Youtube comments are awful. Paladinus fucked around with this message at 13:16 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 13:09
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Mokotow posted:I work in IT/software development, though more on the design and research side of things. My new employer has it's technical office in Warsaw, but conducts it's business in Germany and other EU countries, and, as far as I can tell, it's the case for many firms, not only in the IT sector. Since I have experience working in Germany, but also speak english well and I'm Polish, I'm a good candidate for many of these companies. In your opinion, why do you think Polish economic growth is still fairly high compared to the rest of Europe (especially Eastern Europe)? Relative closeness to Germany for outsourcing? I have heard the argument that Poland was simply "better prepared" for a transition to free market capitalism and thus had a smoother transition. Obviously wages in Poland are still quite low it sounds like, but there is the question of why Poland has done relatively better than Hungary. That said, Polish growth has been pretty up and down all said and it may just be a combination of timing and rose-colored glasses. (Also Hungary has done much better this year but that is only very rough post-crisis period.) Ardennes fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 13:36
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Ardennes posted:In your opinion, why do you think Polish economic growth is still fairly high compared to the rest of Europe (especially Eastern Europe)? Relative closeness to Germany for outsourcing? I have heard the argument that Poland was simply "better prepared" for a transition to free market capitalism and thus had a smoother transition. I spent the last year talking about this with my colleagues from Romania, Hungary and Ukraine. There isn't a simple answer, of course, and I have to say that generally Poland has just managed to keep it's poo poo together better than other countries in the region. We've done away with everyday corruption, for the most part, and it's one of those things other countries in this region have huge problems with. We privatised most of the state-run companies, which unburdened the state budget, but pushed all the blue-collar workers into deep poverty. We held off on investing into things like health care or pensions, resulting in less than stellar living conditions, but didn't overburden ourselves. Then there's a metric poo poo ton of luck, strong support from the West and a general willingness of people in the 90's to be more like Western Europe. Poland also happens to have a population large enough to go through the strains of an economical transition, without being spread out geographically or ethnically. It has a very strong agricultural sector, which always managed to supply a cheap and stable bottom line for the poorest. It's very close to strong economies, including Germany, and a population very willing to travel for work. It also had a demographical high, which I am a part off, which managed to catch on right into the internet revolution. It's a lot of factors. Having said that, while the economy has been strong, the social costs are tremendous. Our society is incredibly split and very hostile. We are also probably the most "americanised" country in Europe, in the sense that there isn't really any sense of socio-economical unity like the French or Germans have - it's every man for himself. I would't be surprised if we do away with the public health-care system eventually. The every day aggression, desperate conditions in hospitals, large social split, no future security (as in work & living conditions) are all an effect of that economical success. I'm in a lucky group here - I get to enjoy all the new highways, have disposable income, can (and have) gotten in debt and gently caress around across Europe, but so many folks are excluded from this, turning to extremist nationalism in return. I'm a sociology MA, and one thing my professor said back in University is that se thought every Polish person should get a medal for going through the transition in the 90's (as in: how hard it was on an average person). I think we went through a successful shock therapy, and now we need a long time to reconvalescent.
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Oct 21, 2014 13:54
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Mokotow posted:I spent the last year talking about this with my colleagues from Romania, Hungary and Ukraine. There isn't a simple answer, of course, and I have to say that generally Poland has just managed to keep it's poo poo together better than other countries in the region. We've done away with everyday corruption, for the most part, and it's one of those things other countries in this region have huge problems with. We privatised most of the state-run companies, which unburdened the state budget, but pushed all the blue-collar workers into deep poverty. We held off on investing into things like health care or pensions, resulting in less than stellar living conditions, but didn't overburden ourselves. Then there's a metric poo poo ton of luck, strong support from the West and a general willingness of people in the 90's to be more like Western Europe. It doesn't seem Poland is much of a model for shock therapy though (not saying you are saying it is one, you just hear it all the time) considering that many of the circumstances were unique and it came at a heavy cost. Obviously Poland did pull it off better but it very much a relative thing and it does sound that socially it has had a pretty dire impact and it sounds like success hasn't "trickled down" to as many people as it would appear. That said, Hungary is very far from happy at this point, and its approach ultimately wasn't that different. Hungary in 1989 already had a limited market economy, and the successive governments had no problem cutting to the bone. I guess you could say politically there wasn't the same warmness as between the US and Poland and Hungary has some pretty poor relations with some of its neighbors. If anything a discussion about the successes and failures of the post-break up economics of the region would be interesting, especially now that Europe as a whole is at a cross-roads.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:34
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A lot of Poles work in other countries, and they provide a steady stream of income for their families. As Mokotow said Poland got lucky with demographics, but in 20-30 years the system will collapse - a lot of people won't come back and those who stay will be unable to affort having 2+ kids.
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Oct 21, 2014 14:47
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Mokotow posted:Sad words. drat, you make me want to hug my parents for going through exploitative undocumented immigrant bullshit to emigrate out of Poland. Is it really that bad over there? Also, not sure how reliable 'Shock Doctrine' is as a book, but from what I read it seems that a big reason Poland did so well was that at the last second Poland caught wise and told the IMF to gently caress off before the shock therapy fully took hold.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:21
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Kristov posted:drat, you make me want to hug my parents for going through exploitative undocumented immigrant bullshit to emigrate out of Poland. Is it really that bad over there? It's not horrible, no. It's a modern EU country, for the most part. There are stores, highways, cinemas and tons of poo poo to do. You might just be lucky and fall into the 1/4 of population that has the disposable income to enjoy these things, or have the misfortune of watching other people have fun, without a clear indication why exactly you happen to be excluded (it's a very random thing, really). Compared to Germany, of course it's looking like poo poo in many areas, but then, in that comparison, so do many other first-world countries. I just don't particularly enjoy the every-day anger, though I do understand where it comes from.
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Oct 21, 2014 15:36
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Estonia at least is buying Polish trolleys, buses, vegetables and other products so you must be doing something right. And unlike the buses from Belarus that broke down in a few years, those don't. I remember when first old Swedish buses came in mid 1990s. On it was written that they were a gift from Sweden. They were much better and bigger than old soviet PAZ and LAZ buses. And not as cold as Ikarus on country routes. Nowadays nearly everyone living in small settlements in the country have a car of some sort, or maybe the people without cars have moved to towns and those with cars have moved to country so only a token minibus runs some routes few times a day. Some old shkoda trolleys are still going though, they're about 30 years old. It's alright, we can take it.  Life is pretty good actually. I'm proud to wear the uniform of my country's armed forces when I go to home guard exercises. A lot needs improving though, but things have gotten better in 24 years.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:07
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fatherboxx posted:To be honest last time I was in Moscow two months ago there was no shortage of smiling Colonels on every corner but very few McDonalds ads. Probably the franchise owner was already taking a hit in profits when they got into the faux-patriotic shitstorm. Hey I don't know if they were made out of cats but the shwarma carts I've been to in Moscow were pretty drat good. From what I recall. They typically followed like 3 or 4 gin and tonics from the nearby drink cart.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:19
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIoarndHIk  With this kind of frontline pranks Ukraine can take a break and just clean up afterwards
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Oct 21, 2014 16:34
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Kristov posted:drat, you make me want to hug my parents for going through exploitative undocumented immigrant bullshit to emigrate out of Poland. Is it really that bad over there? The most lovely part of living in Poland is that you pretty much are on your own here. Job security, for example, varies depending of your contract. Full-time workers have a lot of rights (at least on paper), but a lot of companies employ people on so-called "trash contracts". Most of them are very ambiguously worded contracts for specific work, which pretty much circumvent a lot of the labor code. Because theoretically you perform a specific job in indeterminate amount of time, there are no paid vacations or sick leave (except what your employer is willing to give you). Your employment can be terminated at will, you also can't join a union. What's worse, the employer doesn't pay for your retirement fund, which fucks you over in the long run - your pension is supposed to depend of the amount of money you paid for social security. There is a silver lining in this kind of contracts, but most of it is theoretical. It's not supposed to be a full-time job - you should be able to work from home and in the hours you like the most. In practice, your employer can pretty much order you to show up in the office everyday and work 8-16 anyway. This is forbidden, but the fines are lenient enough to make breaching the law profitable. Also, if you find a better job, you can pretty much walk out of your current one in the middle of the day with no consequences. Aside from lovely job security, there is also the matter of abysmal public services. Health care is in miserable shape - unless it's a life-threatening issue, whenever you need a specialist, you either go to a privately practicing doctor or wait weeks or even months for your scheduled visit. Hospitals usually drain their yearly budget limits in the middle of the year, so better don't need a surgery in December. Most people expect the pension system to either crash and burn in 10-15 years, or just be "reformed" to give you a minuscule fraction of the money you paid through your entire life. Education used to be good, but its quality seems to drop through the last 10 years. There is not enough public nurseries and kindergartens - if you have children, better have money for a private one, convince your parents to help or get out of the workforce. The last problem is lack of cheap housing. If you're not rich and need an apartment, you either rent one or take a credit for 20+ years. You can also inherit one from an elder relative, which is pretty much the main way of getting a flat. During the last few years, our government seemed to get out their heads from their asses, but only a little bit. They plan to curb the worst abuses of contracts for specific work, for example, but it's too little and too late. If you manage to get a good job, you can lead a quite comfortable life, only a bit worse than in Germany, France or UK. Otherwise, all the growth will mean poo poo for you, because your life will be only marginally better than in the last days of PRL.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:42
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Gravel Gravy posted:Hey I don't know if they were made out of cats but the shwarma carts I've been to in Moscow were pretty drat good. fatherboxx posted:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SIoarndHIk
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Oct 21, 2014 16:46
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Paladinus posted:
When they start fire continuously around 2:25, you can hear the impacts more clearly.
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Oct 21, 2014 16:48
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Paladinus posted:This is some very morbid sense of humour. Did they fire real bullets or whatever VOG is? 40mm Grenade. VVV: You are right. It says in the Video that it uses the VOG-17, which I assumed was AGL version of the VOG-15 Domattee fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 17:21
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Domattee posted:40mm Grenade. 30x29mm high explosive grenade VOG-17A. Edit: May be VOG-30, but I can not find if it has self-destruct - it can not be it in case it does. cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 17:29
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Mokotow posted:Ironically, it might be easier to get specialist jobs in Poland, though. Thanks for replying. It's interesting to compare experiences, I'm in IT/software too. Recently I heard Bulgaria is considering letting university-educated Serbs apply for jobs without any degree nostrification. We gained some compatibility by entering the Bologna Process in 2005 iirc but there are still hoops to jump through in many places. It seems they are hurting for professional labor force badly, a little unexpected but probably related to joining EU and making it easier for good students to find employment elsewhere. I have a degree from a UK university so luckily I get to skip at least some hurdles. They aren't paying bad either. Going by hearsay circa 1000 euros a month is a reasonable expectation; not much different from what I was earning in an entry-level position in Barcelona and with much lower costs of living. Same friend told me their social welfare took a hit too, pensions are down to something like 100 levs (50 euros) a month. My experience is almost opposite from yours Mokotow, I don't dread going home, I yearn for it. The situation is tough but in general people are not "americanized" as you say. Maybe people who feel they're all in the same pot find it easier to share. I spent almost half of my life in half a dozen foreign countries and never felt at home. I'm actually living in Serbia again, after ten years at sea. I treasure every moment. My city isn't as pleasant as Barcelona nor as culturally rich as London, it doesn't stack up by any measure other than being home. I feel genuinely happy for the first time in years. I'm sorting out paperwork and dreading the moment when I'll have to put out to sea again. Maybe I'm a sentimental idiot, I meet people who want to leave every day and I completely understand, but it's not like that for me. To lighten the mood: do other eastern European countries have this weird "fan death"-like belief that draught will kill you? Not the beer kind, the windows open at both sides of the house one. E: To clarify, I was mostly talking of blue collar people when I said people are not as "americanized". I have an aunt in medical academia and their world is backstabby as gently caress. She still suffers for my grandfather's refusal to play office politics when he was a professor. I hear similar things about judiciary jobs. SaltyJesus fucked around with this message at 17:50 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 17:39
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Hey man. I'm really happy you came back to the place where you want to be in - that's really important in life. For what it's worth, I know two people from Poland that travelled to Serbia out of the blue and loving loved it there (it's not a popular holiday destination). I also grew up on "Belgrade street" in Warsaw! I probably just have the blues due to autumn and throwing my life upside down again.
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Oct 21, 2014 18:04
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For those who understand Serbo-Croatian, and can spare half an hour, here's a good, funny recap of the events last week: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYh6MT--nek
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Oct 21, 2014 18:08
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