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NIV3K posted:Or maybe say that editing is taking longer than expected. Or maybe say that you received it back from editing and you are working on it. Those are both better options than copy and pasting last weeks status verbatim. But the dev team has never given a gently caress about trying to be transparent to the customers. Indeed, literally the worst. I was going to leave a comment asking what the hell, decided on better judgement not to.
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Oct 21, 2014 12:20
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Nessus posted:Maybe if you weren't a square and were also a ghost you'd see things differently! Imagine that you're a ghost. You lived a pretty stressful life as one of Creation's many nameless background extras, tilling the fields or running an inn or some other such mundane job, always having to worry about money and putting food on the table and making sure that the local small gods or Dragonbloods didn't take offense at something you said or did. You worked yourself to the bone providing for your family, then one day you die (like you do) and wind up in the Underworld. And man, it's pretty great. All those worries you had before? Gone (well mostly, a Dragonblood could probably still wreck your poo poo, but you're learning some tricks of your own). Now you only need to eat when you feel like it. Money? A hobby. No need to sleep, no need to worry about being too cold in the winter or too hot in the summer, no need to worry about sickness or disease. For the first time in your existence you really feel alive. You could do anything...travel, study, open a whole new ghost business...you've got all the time in the world and nothing holding you back. That's when you remember your family. Your son, stuck tilling the fields or running the inn, having to worry about money and food and all that other stuff. You remember what it's like to be hungry, not just feeling the urge to indulge in food but that aching, gnawing pain that comes from missing meals when money is tight. And when he comes down with a fever and can't work for a week, then bills start piling up...it just breaks your heart that he should have to suffer through all of that. Wouldn't it be better, wouldn't he be happier, if he were a ghost like you? Maybe you should help him. He'll thank you for it when he's dead. Kai Tave fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Oct 21, 2014 |
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Oct 21, 2014 16:47
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Ghosts as an extended metaphor for depression and suicidal ideation; got it. (in all seriousness, that is a fantastic plot hook, and I hope to see it implemented somewhere)
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Oct 21, 2014 17:47
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That all just reminds me of the 'heroic' abyssal motivations that abyssals who don't want to redeem themselves but also aren't murderrapists tend to follow. "Well yeah I wanna throw the world into Oblivion, the world sucks. You think that the farmer who toils every day only to die of starvation and have their family follow them wants to stay in this world? Of course not - oblivion is peace, it's equality, no one is in pain and no one suffers." Except a little less... wide reaching.
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Oct 21, 2014 18:52
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That sounds less like a plot hook and more like a cultural detail. "Yeah, the ancestors are always trying get us to join them early. Old people are so weird! You have to take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep 'em away from people who might be a bit depressed."
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Oct 21, 2014 18:55
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KittyEmpress posted:That all just reminds me of the 'heroic' abyssal motivations that abyssals who don't want to redeem themselves but also aren't murderrapists tend to follow. "Well yeah I wanna throw the world into Oblivion, the world sucks. You think that the farmer who toils every day only to die of starvation and have their family follow them wants to stay in this world? Of course not - oblivion is peace, it's equality, no one is in pain and no one suffers." Maybe an Abyssal could just play Euthanatos on lovely cities/cultures/cultural practices. Eg, destroy the whorehouses and opium-dens of Nexus, or free Lookshy's helots, or end the pointless violence and competition encouraged by the cult of Ahlat.
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Oct 21, 2014 19:14
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All this ghostchat is amazing and I'm stealing it all for my Cortex+ hack/Abyssal rewrite.
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Oct 21, 2014 20:10
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KittyEmpress posted:That all just reminds me of the 'heroic' abyssal motivations that abyssals who don't want to redeem themselves but also aren't murderrapists tend to follow. "Well yeah I wanna throw the world into Oblivion, the world sucks. You think that the farmer who toils every day only to die of starvation and have their family follow them wants to stay in this world? Of course not - oblivion is peace, it's equality, no one is in pain and no one suffers." One take would be what you're saying here, which in turn could be split into an 'understandable but bad' perspective ('everything must die') and a sort of gnostic/gothic Buddhism ('life is suffering, the true nature of oblivion isn't a hole in the ground in stygia, it is finding peace in all of our hearts - true and empty peace').
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Oct 21, 2014 21:07
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KittyEmpress posted:That all just reminds me of the 'heroic' abyssal motivations that abyssals who don't want to redeem themselves but also aren't murderrapists tend to follow. "Well yeah I wanna throw the world into Oblivion, the world sucks. You think that the farmer who toils every day only to die of starvation and have their family follow them wants to stay in this world? Of course not - oblivion is peace, it's equality, no one is in pain and no one suffers." I think Skullstone is an amazing place because of how to subverts expectations for the Deathlords. My West game wound up there, and they were quite baffled to see a functioning, efficient bureaucracy complete with currency exchanges and a border crossing staffed by smiling humans and their ghost-supervisors. More baffled to see what appeared to be a largely post-scarcity fantasy society. All this was humanized as they got to know a nice old man who told them about how he’d spent decades near Gem learning rare techniques for metal smithing, and asked the party for company as he told the authorities what he’d learned, since he had no living relatives. Imagine the party’s surprise when he made his presentation and slit his own throat with a superb knife of his own making only to be brought back as an apparently happy ghost. ------ Personally, the bits I remember about the underworld are how everything is strangely ‘perfect’ but also, well, dead. Passionless. Fake scrip becomes real money, and little stone idols become perfect golem bodyguards. Any blemish (and most humanity, for that matter) gets smoothed away once you become a ghost. I think romanticizing the dead as a nation of awesome unyielding magic critters is a valid plot point, and something you could DO in-game as an abyssal or even as a solar, but the default conceit is that the dead need ancestor worship to have any get-up-and-go.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:17
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Mile'ionaha posted:Personally, the bits I remember about the underworld are how everything is strangely ‘perfect’ but also, well, dead. Passionless. Fake scrip becomes real money, and little stone idols become perfect golem bodyguards. Any blemish (and most humanity, for that matter) gets smoothed away once you become a ghost. Hmm... here's a crazy thought: What if the memories and worship/veneration of the dead is actually what makes ghosts, rather than the classic "great unfinished business" trope*? The more you're remembered, the closer to "real" you are--and conversely, when all that's left of you is a faded inscription at some roadside shrine, you're one of those robotic drone ghosts that just reenacts their life (or death, depending) on an endless loop? That gives ghosts some self-interested motivation in propagating ancestor cults, particularly in growing those cults beyond "we sacrifice a chicken to Uncle Wu every Calibration and he keeps us lucky" familial worship. It's an interesting cycle of dependence: ghosts want ancestor cults to stave off annihilation, cults sacrifice grave goods to the ancestors which gives the ghost an afterlife of comfort and ease, which in turn makes the ghost encourage more worship to keep the comfort going, which in turn binds the ghost tighter to the Underworld and away from the cycle of rebirth. It also makes ghosts' dependence on worship a different flavor than the gods and their need for prayers. * Obviously you still need unfinished business and passions to be able to create ghosts, so you can have your vengeful spirits and whatnot, but maybe the more common ghosts are the ones whose families just won't let them go.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:53
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GimpInBlack posted:Hmm... here's a crazy thought: What if the memories and worship/veneration of the dead is actually what makes ghosts, rather than the classic "great unfinished business" trope*? The more you're remembered, the closer to "real" you are--and conversely, when all that's left of you is a faded inscription at some roadside shrine, you're one of those robotic drone ghosts that just reenacts their life (or death, depending) on an endless loop? That gives ghosts some self-interested motivation in propagating ancestor cults, particularly in growing those cults beyond "we sacrifice a chicken to Uncle Wu every Calibration and he keeps us lucky" familial worship. It's an interesting cycle of dependence: ghosts want ancestor cults to stave off annihilation, cults sacrifice grave goods to the ancestors which gives the ghost an afterlife of comfort and ease, which in turn makes the ghost encourage more worship to keep the comfort going, which in turn binds the ghost tighter to the Underworld and away from the cycle of rebirth. It also makes ghosts' dependence on worship a different flavor than the gods and their need for prayers. Like at some point I guess you have to make a call, if the Skull Dimension is just a dependent dead echo or a full-fledged (if subsidiary) realm with its own laws and energies. If it's the former you're kind of squashing on the Deathlords, Abyssals, and so forth - I think the latter suits Exalted better.
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Oct 21, 2014 21:56
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Nessus posted:I don't think this is a bad concept but I don't think it really suits Exalted's metaphysical themes of rabid animism and people being able to rise up and gently caress up their betters. I also think it would tend to cut out some of the cooler sorts of concepts, such as dead Dynasts, ghosts who forge new and greater existences in the Underworld, and so on. Admittedly this is more in-tune with my rewrite that makes the Skull Dimension more a realm of memory and dream than a crappy not-Creation made of antimatter, but I think there's definitely still room for those kinds of "self-made ghosts" and dead Dynasts and such that don't necessarily fit the expectations. Like I said, you still need some ghosts to be able to come back on the strength of their own will/passion, otherwise you lose the "mysterious ghost of a hanged man who haunts the old forest outside town and strings up anybody who wanders into his woods" type stories. There's room for a distinction between normal ghosts and heroic ghosts, I think, that makes both interesting and viable. Hell, you don't even have to explain why some ghosts are more self-actualized; the Skull Dimension can and should be a weird place whose rules aren't universal or readily apparent. Nessus posted:Like at some point I guess you have to make a call, if the Skull Dimension is just a dependent dead echo or a full-fledged (if subsidiary) realm with its own laws and energies. If it's the former you're kind of squashing on the Deathlords, Abyssals, and so forth - I think the latter suits Exalted better. I absolutely agree, but I also think it needs to be a full-fledged realm that's tightly linked to Creation or it loses some of its thematic relevance.
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Oct 21, 2014 22:09
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GimpInBlack posted:Admittedly this is more in-tune with my rewrite that makes the Skull Dimension more a realm of memory and dream than a crappy not-Creation made of antimatter, but I think there's definitely still room for those kinds of "self-made ghosts" and dead Dynasts and such that don't necessarily fit the expectations. Like I said, you still need some ghosts to be able to come back on the strength of their own will/passion, otherwise you lose the "mysterious ghost of a hanged man who haunts the old forest outside town and strings up anybody who wanders into his woods" type stories. There's room for a distinction between normal ghosts and heroic ghosts, I think, that makes both interesting and viable. Hell, you don't even have to explain why some ghosts are more self-actualized; the Skull Dimension can and should be a weird place whose rules aren't universal or readily apparent.
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Oct 21, 2014 22:21
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Nessus posted:I don't think the Underworld has to be crappy (though I mean, if you mean in the sense of 'full of death and skulls and morbid crap,' yes, it should be) - it's just been kind of poorly rendered and trading heavily on memories of Wraith (which did own, hard) rather than establishing its own voice. I suppose one interpretation would be that the general areas that match to Creation are like the bordermarches (especially around Shadowlands), which are the most like the traditional images, and as you get further from the boundary to Creation, it gets weirder. This would tend to cast Stygia and other such ghostly places as, essentially, a region of the Labyrinth which happens to be more comprehensible and safe to visit for the living, and I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. That's pretty much exactly how I have it in my rewrite, yeah.
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Oct 21, 2014 22:43
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The underworld is Lordran. The underworld is Lordran!!
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Oct 22, 2014 00:00
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Rand Brittain posted:That sounds less like a plot hook and more like a cultural detail. "Yeah, the ancestors are always trying get us to join them early. Old people are so weird! You have to take what they say with a grain of salt, and keep 'em away from people who might be a bit depressed." On the other hand, what if the ancestors have a point? For the average peasant in Creation, an existence where you no longer have to worry about food, money, shelter, or disease probably sounds like a pretty sweet deal. Not every single living person in Creation is going to have aspirations of suicide of course, plenty of people are probably quite happy with their lives...the ones who have money, who don't have to worry about things like "do I feed my children or feed myself?," etc. But Creation isn't the place it once was, it's kind of in a state of disrepair in order to set the stage for the PCs' grand entrance onto the stage, and so maybe the prospect of shedding all that nonsense and starting over as a ghost has some actual tangible allure to the disenfranchised, downtrodden masses. Suddenly you have an "antagonistic" Underworld that isn't all about shrieking angry ghosts and skeleton armies and womb cannons. Instead you have an Underworld that's offering a better deal to all those peasants and rice farmers that keep the Imperial satrapies fed and maybe it's starting to gain some traction, slowly at first but more and more the land of the dead is starting to encroach upon the mortal world not with threats and terror but with an open hand and promises of a better existence if you're willing to shed your mortality. The Dynastic Houses, consequently, still have plenty of reasons to be freaking out about things like Shadowlands, because this sort of thing is effectively eroding the Empire from the bottom up...death cults take root, Shadowlands blossom, and before you know it farmsteads that once provided food for their legions have become literal ghost towns. Prices go up, shortages abound, things get worse, and more people start to think "hey, maybe being a ghost doesn't sound so bad after all, I should look into that." Nessus posted:One take would be what you're saying here, which in turn could be split into an 'understandable but bad' perspective ('everything must die') and a sort of gnostic/gothic Buddhism ('life is suffering, the true nature of oblivion isn't a hole in the ground in stygia, it is finding peace in all of our hearts - true and empty peace'). This is exactly the sort of thing I'd love to see more of with regard to Abyssals and the Underworld. As far back as 1E the whole "champion of death" thing was floated as a potential concept but there's never actually been a whole lot of meat on that particular bone.
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Oct 22, 2014 01:51
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Kai Tave posted:This is exactly the sort of thing I'd love to see more of with regard to Abyssals and the Underworld. As far back as 1E the whole "champion of death" thing was floated as a potential concept but there's never actually been a whole lot of meat on that particular bone. What would be even neater - if they bother to define the Neverborn at all - is if one or two of them is actually like Primordial Death Buddha, and is actually not significantly hostile to the mere existence of transitory life forms. Similarly, there might be a Deathlord who (while probably still a titanic necromantic tyrant) might actually have a motivation beyond 'murder everything because the Dragon-blooded noscoped me a thousand years ago.'
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Oct 22, 2014 01:57
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Nessus posted:I suppose some of it is that a philosophy of renunciation of desire is not super duper gameable. It'd be pretty interesting to have a Primordial/Deathlord who's essentially a death-based bodhisattva - "I am enlightened and understand that true nirvana lies in Oblivion and frankly I'd much rather throw myself into Oblivion and embrace that enlightenment than deal with the bullshit of this world, but out of the goodness of my heart I have decided to remain in Creation in order to bring that enlightenment to the people and so save their souls from the cycle of suffering."
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Oct 22, 2014 02:03
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Nessus posted:I suppose some of it is that a philosophy of renunciation of desire is not super duper gameable. I think you could probably put sufficient spin on it to make it more interesting and engaging, a sort of "anti-Buddhist" philosophy that takes the approach that life is suffering, therefore unlife is the first step on the journey to enlightenment. Those able to transcend the wheel of reincarnation are able to truly experience existence unfettered by mortal concerns. Being a ghost probably wouldn't be the ultimate end-goal of such a philosophy, but would still be viewed as a higher state of being than those bound by the shackles of earthly need. (This is another reason why this sort of thing would probably be freaking the Dynasts and maybe the Sidereals right the hell out, because every person that signs on for something like this is another soul that isn't reincarnating. Can you run out of souls? Well it's never happened before but that doesn't mean that it can't. Better to not take that chance.)
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Oct 22, 2014 02:06
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Kai Tave posted:I think you could probably put sufficient spin on it to make it more interesting and engaging, a sort of "anti-Buddhist" philosophy that takes the approach that life is suffering, therefore unlife is the first step on the journey to enlightenment. Those able to transcend the wheel of reincarnation are able to truly experience existence unfettered by mortal concerns. Being a ghost probably wouldn't be the ultimate end-goal of such a philosophy, but would still be viewed as a higher state of being than those bound by the shackles of earthly need.
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Oct 22, 2014 02:19
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I get that ghosts don't NEED food and shelter, but I think think they're still miserable without those things. Telling peasants that unlife is a paradise is Creation's version of telling Depression-era Oklahomans that there's plenty of farmwork in sunny California. Being a naked beggar in a snowstorm sucks, but at least you die and it's over. Being a naked beggar in a snowstorm FOR ETERNITY seems bleaker. Honestly, it probably wouldn't turn out that way. Soon after "spawning" into the Underworld, you'd probably get press-ganged into serving some ancient rich dead fucks, long-forgotten by the living.
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Oct 22, 2014 02:44
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bartkusa posted:I get that ghosts don't NEED food and shelter, but I think think they're still miserable without those things. Telling peasants that unlife is a paradise is Creation's version of telling Depression-era Oklahomans that there's plenty of farmwork in sunny California. Eh, it depends on how you parse "they don't NEED these things." I don't think that even the canonical Underworld is meant to be a place of endless toil and suffering, it's just that apparently ghosts fall into a rut and stay there. Which is pretty boring, hence all the discussion on how to spin things in a different direction. quote:Honestly, it probably wouldn't turn out that way. Soon after "spawning" into the Underworld, you'd probably get press-ganged into serving some ancient rich dead fucks, long-forgotten by the living. Well that's what you have heroic Abyssals for, same as the living have Solars.
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Oct 22, 2014 02:49
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bartkusa posted:I get that ghosts don't NEED food and shelter, but I think think they're still miserable without those things. Telling peasants that unlife is a paradise is Creation's version of telling Depression-era Oklahomans that there's plenty of farmwork in sunny California. Still enough to drive thousands to take the chance and migrate.
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Oct 22, 2014 03:01
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Nessus posted:I suppose some of it is that a philosophy of renunciation of desire is not super duper gameable. I had an idea a year or two ago about such a Neverborn. The Primordial who contributed the system of reincarnation to Creation when Autochthon, Gaia et. al. were designing the first life forms, and whose death during the Primordial War contributed to the limited breakdown in the wheel of samsara that allows ghosts to rise. Like the others she dreamed in madness through the First Age till the Black Nadir Concordat showed up to rip Necromancy from the Neverborn, but once bestirred her goal wasn't to pull Creation into the Mouth of the Void. Instead she wants to experience Lethe and reincarnate, and to induce the same in her fellow Neverborn. She has one deathlord (in my campaign a First Age Chosen of Endings who died in the sinking of Luthe) who now directs her single circle of Abyssal Exalted. They're mechanically identical to other Abyssals, including the Resonance rules, with one caveat: whenever they kill a living being they can reflexively spend one dot of Willpower to induce immediate Lethe and reincarnation on the slain, with no chance of ghostly rising.
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Oct 22, 2014 03:22
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A_Raving_Loon posted:Still enough to drive thousands to take the chance and migrate. I think it presents more interesting scenarios if the Underworld actually has some compelling and attractive options to consider rather than being a big bleak grey void or one big sucker's game. I mean, the Underworld shouldn't be a compelling and attractive prospect compared to being a living, breathing, mortal person, but that's the state to which Creation has fallen to by the time the Solars start popping back up. I don't think that "become a ghost" should be some universal cure-all with no drawbacks whatsoever. For starters not everybody who dies becomes a ghost, which means that even if you willingly decide to embrace deathism there's no guarantee that you aren't just headed for another spin on the Wheel of Mortality. And the Underworld itself should have perils of its own...but of course so does Creation. I like the idea of it being something you could have in-character debates over with both sides having valid arguments rather than another iteration of "these are the deathy guys, therefore they're clearly and objectively the villains of the piece, go beat them up and/or strive for redemption if you happen to be one."
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Oct 22, 2014 04:35
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Ferrinus posted:The underworld is Lordran. The underworld is Lordran!! The Underworld definitely has room for Lordran.
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Oct 22, 2014 04:45
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Kai Tave posted:I think it presents more interesting scenarios if the Underworld actually has some compelling and attractive options to consider rather than being a big bleak grey void or one big sucker's game. I mean, the Underworld shouldn't be a compelling and attractive prospect compared to being a living, breathing, mortal person, but that's the state to which Creation has fallen to by the time the Solars start popping back up. Yes, that's what I was looking to invoke. Life above is poo poo, and all the nice folks at the death cult talk a big game about a world free of gods, where a man's very existence derives from his own sovereign will-to-be and all the buried riches of eternity are waiting to be conquered. Some will go on to tell the tale of how they were buried with naught but a drachma in their one good eye, but through sheer undying grit and determination clawed their way up from the grave-dirt and built themselves a damned legacy. For each of those, thousands never made the journey over, wound up as feral sub-ghosts fighting for scraps in the gutters, or just managed to get their acres and their skull-mule so they can do the same poo poo they did before. Then again, maybe all these folks who died full of hope for a better tomorrow aren't as content to take what the world gives them. If they don't find their dream there, perhaps some will fight to make it real.
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Oct 22, 2014 13:22
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Looks like the Monday Meeting post was updated to mention that the last piece of writing is now in editing—the new opening fiction by Jenna Moran. I heartily recommend it to fans of good local cooking!
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Oct 24, 2014 03:37
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Link? I don't see this on Kickstarter or the Onyx Path page or anything.
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Oct 24, 2014 16:03
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Mile'ionaha posted:Link? I don't see this on Kickstarter or the Onyx Path page or anything. Exalted 3rd Edition core book- From Holden: “The book is in editing. Art is coming in thick and fast, being reviewed and revised. And the final piece of writing for the book is now in editing—a new short story by Jenna Moran”. (Exalted 3rd Edition)
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Oct 24, 2014 16:27
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Oh, from your comment about cooking I hoped there was a joke or hint or sample I was missing. Oh well, more Jenna Moran is good in my book 
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Oct 25, 2014 00:05
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More art, less thunder thighs.
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Oct 31, 2014 00:51
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Had a long talk with Rich Thomas over the weekend-- he went into detail, among a lot of other things, about the reasons behind the massive delay on getting Exalted 3E out (none of which are particularly surprising): http://www.gamer-xp.com/walking-the-onyx-path-with-rich-thomas/ Adept Nightingale fucked around with this message at 08:25 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 08:21
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Adept Nightingale posted:Had a long talk with Rich Thomas over the weekend-- he went into detail, among a lot of other things, about the reasons behind the massive delay on getting Exalted 3E out (none of which are particularly surprising): Thanks for the post and write up. I am very excited to see this book, but I am guessing it will likely not be done until January/February. I was hoping for a December release, but I imagine art takes some time.
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Nov 10, 2014 09:23
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I do love how Richard goes on and on about how Onyx Path loooooooooooooooooves talking to the fans and having open development and heaps of other transparency....... Sure do wish we could see what was in that loving present. Guess Richard doesn't mean the Exalted line in there.
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Nov 10, 2014 10:26
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Bardlebee posted:Thanks for the post and write up. I am very excited to see this book, but I am guessing it will likely not be done until January/February. I was hoping for a December release, but I imagine art takes some time. Doing art for a project like that is a nightmare, particularly if they're just starting on that layout. Do we have any idea what artists they're working with? I know there have been art previews, but it's been so long I don't know the artists involved, aside from Uran, of course. Rich Thomas has been overall doing a much better job than the White Wolf of years past, and I wouldn't put too much blame on him. There have clearly been stumbles (hey, Mummy), but the overall book quality has been much better than it was through most of the 90s.
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Nov 10, 2014 14:03
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Excelsiortothemax posted:I do love how Richard goes on and on about how Onyx Path loooooooooooooooooves talking to the fans and having open development and heaps of other transparency....... Think it runs into his very light touch in terms of managing the talent-- Exalted's communications policy is up to its developers, at the end of the day, not up to a mandate from him. On the whole, I think that's a good thing, really. Adept Nightingale fucked around with this message at 22:51 on Nov 10, 2014 |
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Nov 10, 2014 17:26
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Adept Nightingale posted:Had a long talk with Rich Thomas over the weekend-- he went into detail, among a lot of other things, about the reasons behind the massive delay on getting Exalted 3E out (none of which are particularly surprising): Woah, one of the guys responsible for Exalted apparently nearly died. That neck-swelling thing sounded suspiciously like cancer to me. Man, I'm lucky I've missed this until now, I would have worried about the guy so much! In other news, waiting for Exalted to come out made me so bored, I looked over my old second edition Earthdawn-books. Turns out they're all in German. Looks like my English was a lot worse then I thought back then, makes sense but makes it hard to play with people who aren't my friends (who all are pretty drat uninterested in Pen & Paper roleplaying and the only ones I know who speak German).
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Nov 17, 2014 02:25
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Libluini posted:Woah, one of the guys responsible for Exalted apparently nearly died. That neck-swelling thing sounded suspiciously like cancer to me. It turned out not to be cancer, because several courses of antibiotics put it into temporary remission and when they finally pulled the thing out surgically none was found, but there were periods of time there where the doctors were like "Welp, we're not saying it's cancer, but we can't get a bacterial culture from any of these samples, and we've pretty much ruled out everything except cancer...." It was an ugly, scary ordeal.
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Nov 17, 2014 02:41
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Excelsiortothemax posted:I do love how Richard goes on and on about how Onyx Path loooooooooooooooooves talking to the fans and having open development and heaps of other transparency....... Bit late, but the rest of the Onyx Path lines have been pretty awesome about that. Hell, when they were doing Book of the Wyrm they outright released the majority of the unedited book as a PDF, featuring this wonderful gem when it talks about Black Dog (a parody of White Wolf and its kickstarted parody of Werewolf: "The book used Black Dog’s highly popular “closed development” system, where the writers and artists hint vaguely at what they’re working on without revealing anything to the community."
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