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Codependent Poster posted:I'm sure SHIELD has some anti-brainwashing stuff they do for agents they send into cover. It would be pretty ridiculous if they didn't. In that they only found out that brainwashing was a thing like three episodes ago, I don't see how that's possible, especially since both Morse and Simmons were in place before they even heard HYDRA could do it.
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Oct 22, 2014 14:58
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It's obvious the fact the hydra guys said it doesn't always work will come into play at some point.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:08
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jng2058 posted:It's an interesting situation. On one hand, either Mockingbird or Simmons could have been brainwashed. On the other hand, SHIELD is aware of both that HYDRA has brainwashing capability and the possibility that anyone who spends time near HYDRA (like Bobbi or Jemma) could have been Fausted. Yeah, this is interesting. Personally, I think that Simmons is not brainwashed, since the end of the first Simmons episode this season showed the Hyrda agents, talking only to themselves, deciding that Simmons was someone they trust for now, and they never were shown to get suspicious of her again until she was literally having to flee down the hallways. BUT, I think Mockingbird being brainwashed is a possibility. She sent Simmons up to the roof while she went to confront the Hydra agent, and that was a prime opportunity for him to make her Comply. (I mean activate pre-existing brainwashing). Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 15:23
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Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Yeah, this is interesting. I thought they showed that brainwashing takes a long time. They made it seem they were brainwashing Agent 33 for a long time before they broke her, unless you are saying that she is just activated at that point.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:25
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bobkatt013 posted:I thought they showed that brainwashing takes a long time. They made it seem they were brainwashing Agent 33 for a long time before they broke her, unless you are saying that she is just activated at that point. I'm pretty sure Stabbey means the latter. IE, Morse has been brainwashed for ages, and evil lieutenant hit her with Compliance Will Be Rewarded and told her to go infiltrate SHIELD for them. Given that they didn't show the "fight" she was headed to, I'm liking brainwashed Mockingbird on a HYDRA infiltration gig more and more.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:29
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Mokinokaro posted:Since both of her parents turned into "monsters" and destroyed their village, it's likely both of them have alien DNA and the interbreeding or whatever happened before them. If her dad is supposed to be Mr Hyde they could say that his formula was based on adapting alien DNA for humans, which means that since one or both of her parents had it in them it would be natural for Skye.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:32
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I was hoping Skye's Dad was Maximus since he doesn't have kids in the comics and they easily introduce Skye as his daughter and as far as I remember, he is the only evil/unbalanced Inhuman, but Mr Hyde is also a good option, specially considering that "the village was destroyed by monsters" thing
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Oct 22, 2014 15:33
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I really am dissappointed that they got rid of the Simmons' infiltration plot so soon. It would've been grand for a later season reveal of hydra also having a mole in shield. Doubly so if both sides knew they were infiltrated but couldn't expose the spies in their ranks without exposing their operations.
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Oct 22, 2014 15:42
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Skye's dad might not be an inhuman at all. Maybe he's gone through the same process that Coulson and Garret did. He's just crazy-pants on alien juice.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:04
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I was hoping that the infiltration plot would go for half the season, with a reveal around episode 18 that 50% of Hydra had been infiltrated by SHIELD operatives who go around whispering "Salutations SHIELD" to each other followed by the show becoming bad again
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Oct 22, 2014 16:06
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He certainly knows a shitload of stuff about alien stuff
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Oct 22, 2014 16:12
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Mokinokaro posted:I really am dissappointed that they got rid of the Simmons' infiltration plot so soon. I'm not. I like the show when it's moving, as opposed to dragging its heels.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:15
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Jamesman posted:Skye's dad might not be an inhuman at all. Maybe he's gone through the same process that Coulson and Garret did. He's just crazy-pants on alien juice. Alien juice didn't make Coulson and Garret that good at effortlessly murdering large numbers of people. I'm glad they ditched the Simmons in Hydra plot because it would strain my credibility for her to actually be very successful at it. She really is a bad liar.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:16
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The Sharmat posted:Alien juice didn't make Coulson and Garret that good at effortlessly murdering large numbers of people. I'm not sure how to break this to you but I'll try to do it gently. The person named Simmons, who was called a terrible liar in season 1 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., is a fictional character whose qualities (such as, say, an ability to lie) can be changed or molded over time in order to tell a story. For an example of this, see the character Skye from the very same show, who went from being useless to a competent field agent in the space between seasons. What I'm saying is your point is ridiculous.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:21
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The biggest problem with Simmons in Hydra was that it kept her from interacting with any of the other characters on a regular basis.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:28
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muscles like this? posted:The biggest problem with Simmons in Hydra was that it kept her from interacting with any of the other characters on a regular basis. (except for Fitz  )
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Oct 22, 2014 16:33
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mikeraskol posted:I'm not sure how to break this to you but I'll try to do it gently. The person named Simmons, who was called a terrible liar in season 1 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., is a fictional character whose qualities (such as, say, an ability to lie) can be changed or molded over time in order to tell a story. For an example of this, see the character Skye from the very same show, who went from being useless to a competent field agent in the space between seasons. Character development should be shown over the course of the series, not just foisted on the show by the writers waving a magic wand. Skye was shown working on the skills needed to become a field agent all the way back to early season 1. Simmons...not so much. There's nothing ridiculous about holding the show to a standard it set upon itself.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:34
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The Sharmat posted:Alien juice didn't make Coulson and Garret that good at effortlessly murdering large numbers of people. No, they were competent fighters beforehand, and Garret was an evil dick beforehand. I'm not saying that Skye's dad got magic powers from the injection. Just that he's crazy from it and has been for a long, long time. This is Coulson in 20+ years.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:37
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mikeraskol posted:I'm not sure how to break this to you but I'll try to do it gently. The person named Simmons, who was called a terrible liar in season 1 of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., is a fictional character whose qualities (such as, say, an ability to lie) can be changed or molded over time in order to tell a story. For an example of this, see the character Skye from the very same show, who went from being useless to a competent field agent in the space between seasons. And your point is stupid. Yes, literally anything can happen in a fictional story but that doesn't mean it should happen. There is a thing called credibility, which is much like a rubber band* in that it can be stretched. Stretch it too far, too fast, and it will snap. Stretch it slowly, however, and it will hold together much better. If Simmons is going to become a good liar, she's going to need to do it slowly so as not to strain credibility. *
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Oct 22, 2014 16:46
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Jamesman posted:No, they were competent fighters beforehand, and Garret was an evil dick beforehand. I'm not saying that Skye's dad got magic powers from the injection. Just that he's crazy from it and has been for a long, long time. This is Coulson in 20+ years. While I guess it's possible that that's the case, he shows advanced knowledge of the obelisk in a way that he's completely familiar with it. I suppose he could have gleaned that from the crazed voices of his mind if he was just juice-crazy, but it's far more likely there's something else to it. Then again, Coulson has already directly stated the assumption is that he is alien and therefor so is Skye. If there's one thing this show does well/often is completely go against the assumed direction.
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Oct 22, 2014 16:47
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Spergatory posted:And your point is stupid. Yes, literally anything can happen in a fictional story but that doesn't mean it should happen. There is a thing called credibility, which is much like a rubber band* in that it can be stretched. Stretch it too far, too fast, and it will snap. Stretch it slowly, however, and it will hold together much better. If Simmons is going to become a good liar, she's going to need to do it slowly so as not to strain credibility. Yeah ok. Looking for credibility in this show is pretty drat stupid. Just from this last episode, Coulson apparently had some magical escape plan for Simmons already in place, with a [stealth jet sitting outside the building, when he had no idea that Raina was going to give him only 2 minutes before exposing Simmons. You could argue that character trait credibility is more important, and maybe I'd agree, but the point still stands. You could pick these nits regarding credibility in every single episode, the show doesn't do a great job of following its own internal rules. But that's fine. Additionally, I love how you want the show to take it slowly with moving characters forward and having them grow when that was 90% of the complaints about the first half of season 1. If the first 5 episodes of season 2 had a plotline where Simmons was gradually learning to be a better liar with an ultimate payoff of infiltrating Hydra people would be tearing out their hair asking the show to just get on with it. mikeraskol fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Oct 22, 2014 |
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Oct 22, 2014 16:59
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Ah, you're one of those.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:06
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The Sharmat posted:Alien juice didn't make Coulson and Garret that good at effortlessly murdering large numbers of people. If she's not seriously questioned she doesn't have to lie. She just does her job as usually sending off intel as nessecary, when she went under suspicion she did lie terribly. Luckily the person she lied to was also a shield agent. She gained her trust not by lying but by "saving" the life of a Hydra higher up. She probably only had to lie once, and once she was in as long as she did whatever science they wanted her to do they didn't have a reason to seriously question her.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:06
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PierreTheMime posted:While I guess it's possible that that's the case, he shows advanced knowledge of the obelisk in a way that he's completely familiar with it. I suppose he could have gleaned that from the crazed voices of his mind if he was just juice-crazy, but it's far more likely there's something else to it. I'm not married to the theory, just throwing it out there to think about. He could have gotten some alien blood from Skye's mother. Maybe from all that doin' in they did. And he got all that alien knowledge because his wife was an alien, and all those years of studying alien stuff and, like you said, having inherent knowledge from having the alien blood in him. It's just a thing to thing about. What if he's not some kind of super-alien, but just what can happen to a man exposed to that alien juice and left to go crazy for 20-some years? Also they are a doctor with pre-existing knowledge of aliens. But he could also just be a super-alien.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:07
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mikeraskol posted:Yeah ok. Looking for credibility in this show is pretty drat stupid. Just from this last episode, Coulson apparently had some magical escape plan for Simmons already in place, with a [stealth jet sitting outside the building, when he had no idea that Raina was going to give him only 2 minutes before exposing Simmons. He may have enacted the escape plan when Mockingbird informed him Simmons was in danger of being found out, since she was the one in charge of the search in the first place.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:11
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So, I can't be the only that noticed Simmons seems to have gotten some, uh, enhancements... right? I posit forth the notion that Hydra has... implanted... some advanced fembot technology into her at some point.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:28
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Mylan posted:He may have enacted the escape plan when Mockingbird informed him Simmons was in danger of being found out, since she was the one in charge of the search in the first place. Or it could just be bad writing.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:29
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Jamesman posted:No, they were competent fighters beforehand, and Garret was an evil dick beforehand. I'm not saying that Skye's dad got magic powers from the injection. Just that he's crazy from it and has been for a long, long time. This is Coulson in 20+ years. I really like the Coulson vs. Skye's dad thing too. It's pretty clear that Skye's dad hates Coulson since he's a father figure to her, as seen when she hugged him. And Coulson, outside of a few things, has been really supportive of her and protective and acted like a dad.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:35
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Deakul posted:So, I can't be the only that noticed Simmons seems to have gotten some, uh, enhancements... right? Advanced technology known as a push up bra.
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Oct 22, 2014 17:46
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greatn posted:Advanced technology known as a push up bra. Hail Hydra
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Oct 22, 2014 17:49
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Codependent Poster posted:Skrull cow? Nope. 
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Oct 22, 2014 17:58
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Avengers 2 Trailer to Debut on Next Week's S.H.I.E.L.D. http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/10/21/avengers-age-of-ultron-teaser-trailer-to-debut-on-marvels-agents-of-shield
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Oct 22, 2014 18:13
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So, they have established that Anchorman exists in the MCU. Also, Paul Rudd is playing Scott Lang in Ant-Man. Crossover opportunities abound. 
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Oct 22, 2014 18:13
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Mylan posted:He may have enacted the escape plan when Mockingbird informed him Simmons was in danger of being found out, since she was the one in charge of the search in the first place. Yeah, I'm assuming this was the entire point of showing that HYDRA realized they had a mole before Raina transmitted the image. It opened a plausible window between scenes where Raina tells HYDRA they have a mole and Bobbi contacts Coulson to tell him exactly what Raina is up to before he goes to the restaurant. He only goes to get more info out of her, which is what gets them on the trail of ragedad.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:13
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I doubt either Simmons or Mockingbird are brainwashed. They both seem to be aware of where the Shield base is, it doesn't make a lot of sense for Hydra to try to get spies in to keep an eye on the last 8 Shield dudes vs just using the brainwashing to get the location and storm the place.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:14
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Tunklord Supreme posted:Nick Fury has an old flame in the comics named the Contessa Valentina Allegra di Fontaine, but I may be reaching a bit for that connection. She also ended up being a traitor and member of a group called Leviathan.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:15
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I love that rage dad can just walk right into a hydra base and into the grand poobah's office at will.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:42
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bobkatt013 posted:She also ended up being a traitor and member of a group called Leviathan. A creature that enormous in the ocean would certainly cause the tide to rise 
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Oct 22, 2014 18:50
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So really hoping to see Bob, Agent of Hydra at some point (in all his inept glory). Hopefully they don't wait till the Deadpool reboot.
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Oct 22, 2014 18:53
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Javid posted:I love that rage dad can just walk right into a hydra base and into the grand poobah's office at will. I assumed he killed a lot of dudes on his way up, like too quick for them to call for help.
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