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Agent Boogeyman posted:I can only read this to translate as "d20 was made the status quo to deliberately and purposefully undermine the creative design process of tabletop gaming, thus purposefully and deliberately stagnating it for nearly a decade". Because that is totally what it loving DID. Am I so embittered by what the OGL did to gaming that I'm reading this wrong? I seriously cannot interpret this in any other way. This is not a good thing yet he is talking about it in glowing terms. Now, there's a big contradiction in this, because the other thing the OGL made possible was to publish your D&D houserules as a game. I know somebody will say that that's been happening since the 70s, but there are some OSR games that are really just "a copypaste of AD&D, minus the rules my group didn't use, plus some houserules." These books could have been more usefully and honestly published as supplements for the author's retroclone of choice. Dancey is, of course, spinning history and doing what he's best at: marketing Ryan Dancey. Remember that the tagline for D20 was "reducing the demand for other systems to zero." Him disavowing responsibility for the Great D20 Glut is pretty rich. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 02:59
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Hey, my play group just learned that D&D 5th is A Thing and they want to know how it is. I stopped following the thread like four thousand posts ago.  They played 3.5 a bit, but enjoyed the poo poo out of the tactical gameplay of 4th. Did this end up being a better 3.5?
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Oct 23, 2014 05:56
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Azran posted:Hey, my play group just learned that D&D 5th is A Thing and they want to know how it is. I stopped following the thread like four thousand posts ago. Not really, no. There's a good chance they won't like it if they enjoyed the tactical 4e gameplay.
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Oct 23, 2014 05:58
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To be fair, it is better than 3.5 if only because the fiddly bullshit isn't out yet.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:02
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Babylon Astronaut posted:To be fair, it is better than 3.5 if only because the fiddly bullshit isn't out yet. Yeah, that's fair. I would still wait for the DMG regardless, though.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:03
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Babylon Astronaut posted:To be fair, it is better than 3.5 if only because the fiddly bullshit isn't out yet. Right, it's better than 3.PF, but if Azran's group already does like 4E then Next is probably going to be a step backwards for them. Next has a particular appeal.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:08
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Absolutely. The tactical depth is nowhere near 4e's.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:13
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Azran posted:Hey, my play group just learned that D&D 5th is A Thing and they want to know how it is. I stopped following the thread like four thousand posts ago. Are you looking at 5 because it's D&D and new (which is fine) or is there something in specific you're looking to change from 4th? Because yes, D&D 5th is better than 3rd but it basically pretends 4th never happens and the combat is, not 4th's.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:28
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Welp, feared as much. Thanks guys.30.5 Days posted:Are you looking at 5 because it's D&D and new (which is fine) or is there something in specific you're looking to change from 4th? Because yes, D&D 5th is better than 3rd but it basically pretends 4th never happens and the combat is, not 4th's. Not really, no. I honestly think 13th Age is a really good middle point for my group if they ever want something closer to 3.5 while keeping some of the "flavour" of 4th, just wondering how it had turned out. RIP Warlord.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:53
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So what's the current build for a wizard at level 4? Crossbow fighter is something I'm losing interest in and want to go back to warping reality.
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Oct 23, 2014 06:57
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Azran posted:Not really, no. I honestly think 13th Age is a really good middle point for my group if they ever want something closer to 3.5 while keeping some of the "flavour" of 4th, just wondering how it had turned out. RIP Warlord.
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Oct 23, 2014 07:42
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theparag0n posted:This is already way better than dungeonscape. Nicely done kassoon. Dahbadu posted:This is great. Thank you! Thanks! I may do some basic class/level stuff in the future, but I also wanted to keep it open for things like homebrew. We'll see.
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Oct 23, 2014 08:52
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Agent Boogeyman posted:I can only read this to translate as "d20 was made the status quo to deliberately and purposefully undermine the creative design process of tabletop gaming, thus purposefully and deliberately stagnating it for nearly a decade". Because that is totally what it loving DID. Am I so embittered by what the OGL did to gaming that I'm reading this wrong? I seriously cannot interpret this in any other way. This is not a good thing yet he is talking about it in glowing terms. Just think of it as Leto's plan from God Emperor of Dune. Sure Ryan Dancey is a horrible worm-person and caused a decade of stagnation, but that oppression caused the scattering of the indie games movement and the new flourishing of RPGs.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:06
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What advantages are there to playing a warlock past 10th level? Our two warlocks are now considering multi classing due to the lack of spell selection. They never aquire, naturally, level 6 spells and higher.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:17
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Kortel posted:They never aquire, naturally, level 6 spells and higher. Isn't that what Mystic Arcanum does? 11th level: 1 6th level spell/day. 13th level: 1 7th level spell/day. 15th level: 1 8th level spell/day. 17th level: 1 9th level spell/day.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:41
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AlphaDog posted:Isn't that what Mystic Arcanum does? Was not aware of this. Not personally knowledgable about warlock mechanics. They made it sound like they have no versatility after level 10 compared to other casters. That still seems kind of crappy.
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Oct 23, 2014 12:51
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Yeah, Warlock's not one of the classes I've read deeply yet, but it sure doesn't look very flexible after level ~10. Maybe the pact or patron stuff gets better? I'm really not sure. I just remembered them getting higher level spells than you said.
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Oct 23, 2014 13:27
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Kassoon posted:Thanks! I may do some basic class/level stuff in the future, but I also wanted to keep it open for things like homebrew. We'll see. Yeah good stuff. I used that drat 4e crib sheet you made for years, ended up making one for 5e.
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Oct 23, 2014 14:05
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I think my Half-Orc Fighter is going to multiclass into Paladin of Vengeance (GWF build). I don't know how long Expeditions/Adventuer's League is supposed to go for in terms of levels, and I honestly don't know if I should multiclass at Fighter 3 (so I get fifth-level spells at Paladin 17) or if I should wait until I hit Fighter 4 so I get the ability boost (but then not get the 17th level Paladin stuff). What do you guys think?
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Oct 23, 2014 14:19
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Kortel posted:What advantages are there to playing a warlock past 10th level? Our two warlocks are now considering multi classing due to the lack of spell selection. They never aquire, naturally, level 6 spells and higher. There are three important things to remember about Warlocks and versatility. 1: At will spells through their Invocations. Which include Levitation (or Jump), Alter Self, and Silent Image. All of which get ridiculously much better when you can do them at will. 2: Pact of the Book warlocks can cast any ritual spell from any class with the right invocation. This is unique. 3: They have forced movement and as many attacks as fighters on Eldritch Blast. So in combat it's shenanigans. And no one gets an amazing L11-20. The Warlock is low down but on the high track.
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Oct 23, 2014 14:44
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To touch back on the Ryan Dancey/Pathfinder MMO/D20 thing for a moment, let me share an anecdote with you all. The points will become clear later. Back in the day, I ran the Warcraft d20 game for some of my friends. They were really into the whole Warcraft thing, and so was I must admit, so why not? (Note: we're talking about the Warcraft d20 RPG, not the later World of Warcraft d20 RPG.) This game really is just D&D 3.5 with some of the names changed and a couple of custom feats and spells thrown in. In one of the supplements, the world is described in greater detail. To give an example, the city of Goldshire is described as having 7000 inhabitants and possessing enough trade to have some goblin merchants amongst them. So what are my points? First, the D&D/d20 engine is terrible for running certain (most?) kinds of fiction. It played nothing like Warcraft should. System matters. It determines things that can or can't happen within the game's progress. Second, about that Pathfinder MMO. That's going to be awful for those poor guys who genuinely like the Golarion world. Anybody who is familiar with Goldshire in the World of Warcraft MMO can tell you that it's not a city, it doesn't have 7000 inhabitants, and there's no goblin merchants. In truth it's one inn, one blacksmith, and maybe like two houses. Oh, and a cart at the side of the road. Of course, few people knew about what Goldshire was really intended to be like, so nobody cares. With Golarion things are different. There is no way for them to make a world large enough to support cities with thousands upon thousands of inhabitants. Any MMO on a realistic scale would be preposterously huge and would require its own server for each individual city on the planet. Anybody who expects to see a 3d version of Golarion is in for some serious disappointment. At best you'll get to see a miniaturized parody. And that will lead to some odd flamewars down the line. New fans of (digital) Golarion will meet the fans of the old (paper) Golarion and they'll get to argue about whether this place or that is a city or not, how tough certain things are, how long it takes to run from Sandpoint to Magnimar, and so on. They'll do it. If you think they won't, you must be new to the internet. I think D&D did things smart. When they went with Eberron, they only did Stormreach. When they went with the Forgotten Realms, only Neverwinter. The entire campaign setting all at once? Yeah good luck with that.
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Oct 23, 2014 15:13
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Sage Genesis posted:Any MMO on a realistic scale would be preposterously huge and would require its own server for each individual city on the planet. Anybody who expects to see a 3d version of Golarion is in for some serious disappointment. At best you'll get to see a miniaturized parody.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:10
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I honestly think the Pathfinder MMO is going to be vaporware. Having played Pathfinder for awhile, I was never impressed with Paizo design and especially their technical expertise. I don't think they're going to be able to hire the programmers and technology people to pull it off. However, I hope they do pull it off, because there's a bunch of people (not me) that Kickstarted it and I'd hate to see those people get burned.
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Oct 23, 2014 16:14
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thespaceinvader posted:I'm pretty sure my 4e battlemat is a paizo one. Certainly I have a couple of their minis. It's like 'what the gently caress Wizards, accessories for your games will bring you in MASSES OF loving MONEY'. I should have been able to buy a 4e battlemat and 4e pens and 4e marker magnets and 4e dice sets and and and etc to go with my minis and books. But for some reason they just... let Paizo and Chessex and Alea Tools have those profits despite, you know, being an arm of Hasbro, one of the biggest loving manufacturers of that kind of poo poo in the loving world. Well they did release an official dice set, loads of packs of tiles, the minis etc. Everyone just accused them of "money grabbing". Most of the accessories for playing elfgames are really low margin and are probably not worth it for a large company and only a small portion of your audience buys them. Dahbadu posted:I honestly think the Pathfinder MMO is going to be vaporware. Having played Pathfinder for awhile, I was never impressed with Paizo design and especially their technical expertise. I don't think they're going to be able to hire the programmers and technology people to pull it off. For an example of "paper rpg company tries to make an MMO" and how it will gently caress up see WoD and White Wolf/CCP http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/jun/05/world-of-darkness-the-inside-story-mmo-ccp-white-wolf Mr Beens fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 16:37
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Mr Beens posted:For an example of "paper rpg company tries to make an MMO" and how it will gently caress up see WoD and White Wolf/CCP Go ahead, guess.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:00
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please say ryan dancey
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Oct 23, 2014 17:18
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S.J. posted:please say ryan dancey
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Oct 23, 2014 17:25
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ritorix posted:Yeah good stuff. Oh awesome, that was also on my list. That was always necessary equipment whenever I played.
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Oct 23, 2014 17:49
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neonchameleon posted:There are three important things to remember about Warlocks and versatility. Would you say out of the casters it can keep up? From what I can gather they seem like they have a huge selection of spells but just a small usage pool. Isn't that some what detrimental in comparison to say Sorcerer and Wizard? Just trying to get more information about how they function. Right now our party is level 4 but either the two warlock player aren't reading in to the class deeper or are getting caster envy from the wizard. I kinda like the whole casting spells at flat levels thing. Seems neat and they tend to lock down encounters with CC and AoE abilities.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:25
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Warlock have better at-will damage than wizards, and their "always cast at highest level" design will matter as wizard spell slots get spread pretty thin at higher levels. A 5th level wizard will have 2 3rd level spells per day, a warlock has 2 per short rest. The real thing holding warlocks back is short rests, and the solution to that is only available to wizards (or lore bards, I suppose). Get Rope Trick, take a short rest wherever and whenever you need.
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Oct 23, 2014 18:35
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Halloween Jack posted:The Pathfinder MMO is in a really weird place because frankly, most of its touted features were just Dancey slinging bull because he was scrambling to explain how this game was going to compete with major MMOs. Oh, yeah. I heard all kinds of crazy things like having a alignment system that would effect PVP and spell effects, and also be influenced by RP- that is, if you run around killing people 'for the lulz!', you'll end up Chaotic Evil and thus be locked out of shops and doomed to getting ganked to oblivion, but if you run around killing people 'in the name of the Night Emperor!' or some poo poo you'll end up Lawful Evil and be able to get decent gear so you can continue your crusade of killing lowbies for sport. Also, he declared that he'd instantly ban any Goon guilds. 
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Oct 23, 2014 19:09
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So after running a level 3 valorous bard last night in a 5E game I can see no reason to play any other class. Skills, tanking, buffing, spells, and healing in a single package. Makes the eldritch knight in particular look like a moron and is significantly more versatile than the cleric.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:21
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Azran posted:Not really, no. I honestly think 13th Age is a really good middle point for my group if they ever want something closer to 3.5 while keeping some of the "flavour" of 4th, just wondering how it had turned out. RIP Warlord. The expansion book has a class called Commander... I've heard its decent but have yet to actually see it in play
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Oct 23, 2014 19:25
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Ratoslov posted:Also, he declared that he'd instantly ban any Goon guilds. Seriously, I can't believe this -- do you have a link? Although by all accounts the guy sounds incompetent, this is just so unprofessional. With a lead designer/manager making comments like that, I'm 100% assured it's going to turn into vaporware.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:45
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OneThousandMonkeys posted:So after running a level 3 valorous bard last night in a 5E game I can see no reason to play any other class. Skills, tanking, buffing, spells, and healing in a single package. Makes the eldritch knight in particular look like a moron and is significantly more versatile than the cleric.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:46
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Ratoslov posted:Oh, yeah. I heard all kinds of crazy things like having a alignment system that would effect PVP and spell effects, and also be influenced by RP- that is, if you run around killing people 'for the lulz!', you'll end up Chaotic Evil and thus be locked out of shops and doomed to getting ganked to oblivion, but if you run around killing people 'in the name of the Night Emperor!' or some poo poo you'll end up Lawful Evil and be able to get decent gear so you can continue your crusade of killing lowbies for sport. But oh wait, that assumes competence in Ryan Dancey.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:47
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I remember that, It was to assure prospective backers that mean goons wouldn't troll them.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:51
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moths posted:I remember that, It was to assure prospective backers that mean goons wouldn't troll them. Edit: Or point out his proven track record of success with things like in game $80 hats ascendance fucked around with this message at 20:10 on Oct 23, 2014 |
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Oct 23, 2014 19:54
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It does make you wonder if he expects a game to actually happen, if he's already thinking about who to blanket ban.
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Oct 23, 2014 19:59
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Dahbadu posted:Seriously, I can't believe this -- do you have a link? Although by all accounts the guy sounds incompetent, this is just so unprofessional. With a lead designer/manager making comments like that, I'm 100% assured it's going to turn into vaporware. Nah, I can't remember where I heard the stuff about Goons, but here's some crazy stuff about Alignment Dancey wrote last year. It's pretty stupid.
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Oct 23, 2014 20:06
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