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There are ways to address the issue of inappropriate medication of people who may well benefit more from other kinds of intervention, or who have been wrongly identified as needing intervention. That was not one of them.
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Oct 26, 2014 18:43
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Trin Tragula posted:There are ways to address the issue of inappropriate medication of people who may well benefit more from other kinds of intervention, or who have been wrongly identified as needing intervention. If the story was framed so that the kid was making predictions without the mysterious forest appearing you'd have more of a point.
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Oct 26, 2014 18:46
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ewe2 posted:I did say the tropes were clumsy, but are you saying The Voices Are Always Wrong? That to me seems at base what the screaming is about; forget overmedicating parents or children with surprising insight, we can't have voices being right or where will we be? How dare a tv story suggest it? It's more that I worry they usually are. Perhaps I'm wrong, of course, and The Voices are right for all or some of the people who have them, but at least for the cases I'm aware of they mostly seemed to say things that weren't especially meaningful from the outside and ended up ruining lives. I imagine there are at least some people whose lives are improved by Voices, and I wouldn't want to assume they're always bad. My concern is that for the majority of affected people who see this episode they will be, and the amount of harm it causes is likely to be disproportionate as a result. But yes, I could be wrong; perhaps the dragon will lay a new moon. I wouldn't be comfortable being the final arbiter of anyone's sanity.
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Oct 26, 2014 18:49
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It's important to note that the episode didn't say that the entirely of Maebh's mental heath issues were the result of real fairy interactions. The medication she was taking was stopping her communicating with them, but it was also for treating something resulting from the trauma of losing her sister. Boyce was presumably aiming for "don't let treating the real mental health issues of children stop them contributing with their unique personalities and talents".
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Oct 26, 2014 18:57
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Irony Be My Shield posted:Well, the fob watch does make you forget your old identity. Another thing I would not look forward to is the e-rage from people about how this ruins Clara's character development and takes away her feminine agency.  "... Yeah, the more I think about it the more I do not want this to happen.
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Oct 26, 2014 18:59
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vegetables posted:I wouldn't be comfortable being the final arbiter of anyone's sanity. Nor I but in my experience people will bug out about the most tangential things, following a logic that is quite beside any evidence of the beginning of its trail. It doesn't matter what seems reasonable to you or I; I would be less surprised by someone bugging out about a conspiracy of trees or perhaps the anti-vacc crowd will advertise it, much less someone getting the idea that Voices Are Right. I find this reaction just as patronising as the episode it's screaming about.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:03
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Astroman posted:Another thing I would not look forward to is the e-rage from people about how this ruins Clara's character development and takes away her feminine agency. Well it would. Finally giving Clara some character development is one of the things this series has done right, and if she really did never exist and was just some construct for Missy's evil scheme that would just be pissing all that away.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:13
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I reckon Missy will be Clara because in this episode Maeve only calls Clara "Miss" - never "Ms Oswald" - and that's only one letter away from "Missy". It's a clue, I tells ya!
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Oct 26, 2014 19:16
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computer parts posted:If the story was framed so that the kid was making predictions without the mysterious forest appearing you'd have more of a point. The story was framed by the kid being told by her tree sister to see the Doctor. It was clear from their first interaction that the girl was not crazy, but hearing actual voices.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:18
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marktheando posted:Well it would. Finally giving Clara some character development is one of the things this series has done right, and if she really did never exist and was just some construct for Missy's evil scheme that would just be pissing all that away. Yeah, and I'd be opposed to it for the same reason's I'd be opposed to anyone in the show, regardless of sex, to have their character development stripped away. I'd be opposed if they pulled that bullshit with Jack or Turlough after their redemption arcs, and Donna after her great development. It cheapens a really great character who did a great thing, and then really grew in writing and character. poo poo, I'm still burning over the idea that River turned out to be Amy and Rory's daughter/Mels. But upon reflection this is probably something Moffat will do because he thinks these big reveals of stuff that was UNDER OUR NOSE THE WHOLE TIME! is his style. I just don't look forward to the people thinking it's part of his Anti-Woman Agenda as opposed to just a cheap writing stunt. I generally like Moffat a lot more than most, and I still am glad he was the one to be in charge of the Anniversary year because he nailed that whole sequence of episodes. I think though he's becoming like M Night Shyamalan (everything needs a twist) or RTD (everything needs a secret arc that was hinted at all season). It's like he's trying too hard. I mean, let's face it...the reveal of The Master that RTD did was something that can never be topped, ever, and it's pointless to try. I really really hope he doesn't try to go there.
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Oct 26, 2014 19:44
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I think this probably wrong theory would be ok from a feminist perspective. The show has stressed that fob-watch people are still very much "real", so I don't think it would negate Clara's character development. Also an iconic Who villain would be played by a woman for the first time.
Irony Be My Shield fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 20:02
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I had a moment the other day where I realized that Flatline and Mummy on the Orient Express had made me forget how bad Kill the Moon was. These next episodes had better be loving fantastic so I can forget the absolute garbage that was
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Oct 26, 2014 20:36
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Some of the camera angles where really interesting. Like the "YOU, what's your name" shot with just the doctors arm in the frame (somebody gif that). Besides that it probably was the worst episode of the season and made very little sense.
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Oct 26, 2014 20:48
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I'm predicting it's a huge red herring that sounds great in a trailer. Agreed. It's such a huge line that I can't believe they'd just throw it out there in the trailer. It's there to raise people's eyebrows and get them to watch, and I'm sure in the episode itself there'll be a very different context to the scene/line. Donna: Doctor, who is this mysterious woman? Doctor: ....she's my daughter!
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Oct 26, 2014 21:00
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One awful episode followed by two amazing episodes followed by one truly godawful (sure it's obviously made for kids but I'm pretty sure kid me would have hated it). This season is really uneven.
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Oct 26, 2014 21:05
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Jerusalem posted:Agreed. It's such a huge line that I can't believe they'd just throw it out there in the trailer. It's there to raise people's eyebrows and get them to watch, and I'm sure in the episode itself there'll be a very different context to the scene/line. The bit that interests me is who she's saying it to.
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Oct 26, 2014 21:11
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The bit that interests me is who she's saying it to. Yeah, normally a Cyberman wouldn't care about whether a person existed or not, so either she's bullshitting them or she's connected to them somehow. Going by the preview, seems like bullshitting.
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Oct 26, 2014 21:18
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Random Stranger posted:And that whole, "You'll forget and make it legend," crap. No, people won't forget this. We're not living in 1750's Germany; there is (or at least was before the solar flare) a global communication network and absurd amounts of recording devices. People aren't going to forget the day that all the heroic astronauts on the ISS died screaming. I hope that we'll get another "cracks erase knowledge" event happen sometime like five or so years after the end of Moffat's tenure. Except instead of erasing people's memories it just literally retcons some of his shittier stuff into non-existence. I hated those cracks the first time around because introducing knowledge of aliens and small bits of futuretech into the modern day setting was a good way of linking those "2050s" and such stories with the world as it already exists but deleting something like this or Kill the Moon (or the Doctor spending 500 years on Trenzalore and his name being "that guy who does stuff or something") would only make the world of Doctor Who a better place.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:31
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The cracks were a convenient way to wipe out things selectively; I never got the impression that everything was gone, just the inconvenient stuff.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:35
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Either DW should stop trying to maintain a masquerade altogether, or it should set up base on an earthlike but not-Earth planet. Like Vilag.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:41
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The Onion's AV Club reviewer gives it a B. http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/doctor-who-forest-night-210987 Man, they must have some awesome drugs over there.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:46
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Cliff Racer posted:I hope that we'll get another "cracks erase knowledge" event happen sometime like five or so years after the end of Moffat's tenure. Except instead of erasing people's memories it just literally retcons some of his shittier stuff into non-existence. I hated those cracks the first time around because introducing knowledge of aliens and small bits of futuretech into the modern day setting was a good way of linking those "2050s" and such stories with the world as it already exists but deleting something like this or Kill the Moon (or the Doctor spending 500 years on Trenzalore and his name being "that guy who does stuff or something") would only make the world of Doctor Who a better place. Why would the antitime only effect events the Doctor has already experienced?
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Oct 26, 2014 22:48
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I think it's honestly better when they don't really address "so why doesn't anyone remember the Yetis in the Underground", because there's never going to be a satisfying answer, and the appeal of contemporary Earth Doctor Who stories will always be "what if this happened to us", not "what if this happened to a futuristic techno-society". (If you want to do that, do it in a futuristic techno-society!) It's like the answer to most "so why doesn't the Doctor do X with his time machine" questions only ever really needs to be "because that would make for a really boring story, so shut up".
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Oct 26, 2014 22:49
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Jet Jaguar posted:The Onion's AV Club reviewer gives it a B. They have only given one episode lower than a B grade in the past 5 seasons. They do not have high standards.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:49
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The Internet in general seems to love this season. I've only seen dissenting opinions here and a handful of other blogs.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:53
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Big Mean Jerk posted:The Internet in general seems to love this season. I've only seen dissenting opinions here and a handful of other blogs. My wife asked me how I liked the episode at lunch, and then I think she was sorry she'd asked once I started talking about how disappointed I was for much of it.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:57
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Noxville posted:They have only given one episode lower than a B grade in the past 5 seasons. They do not have high standards. I think aiming for a B average is actually their editorial policy, as the recaps are aimed at fans who want to have a talk about the episode rather than at non-fans who want a review to know if something's actually good or not. Actually including grades is probably a bad idea in that area, and some of their recapers have just outright not assigned them.
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Oct 26, 2014 22:58
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Jet Jaguar posted:My wife asked me how I liked the episode at lunch, and then I think she was sorry she'd asked once I started talking about how disappointed I was for much of it. Well, you knew she had low standards when she married you.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:00
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Republican Vampire posted:I think aiming for a B average is actually their editorial policy, as the recaps are aimed at fans who want to have a talk about the episode rather than at non-fans who want a review to know if something's actually good or not. Actually including grades is probably a bad idea in that area, and some of their recapers have just outright not assigned them. Well if they're aiming for a B average then they're still way overshooting it. They give Kill the Moon a higher grade than Flatline so they clearly don't know what the gently caress anyway.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:02
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Doctor Spaceman posted:The cracks were a convenient way to wipe out things selectively; I never got the impression that everything was gone, just the inconvenient stuff. Yes, but they weren't wiped out so much as people's memories of them were wiped out, I thought? I never implied that I wanted this whole era gone, nor that all of the first 3/4 seasons were cracked into non-existence. This is different in that I want to see this episode's events, the moon dragon, 11's 700 years on Trenzalore, etc outright deleted. They are bad enough that they not only were not fun to watch but they very much so lessen my enjoyment of the Doctor Who universe as a whole when I try to think of them. "Alright, they're on this moonbase WHICH IS REALLY AN EGG BASE." "Okay, Clara has to deal with a whole new Doctor, BUT FOR HIM HE HASN'T SEEN HER IN CENTURIES." Its just ugh. Its not just disliking the episode, I didn't particularly enjoy parts of Deep Breath, Into the Dalek or the "Thing Under Your Bed" episode and found a few other episodes, both classic and modern, to be bad, but because they were "contained" stories they can be safely ignored when figuring into the rest of the show. Well except for the part about Clara talking to kid Doctor in that last one. I'd like to see that gotten rid of too. Especially if Clara doesn't stick around too much longer, it would be awful to have a character who's only spent two/two and a half/three years on the show be shown as so important to his personal history. Cliff Racer fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 23:02
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I'm about to watch this week's episode in a few minutes, but in the meantime, during my 12 or so hours spend either in an airport or on a plane in the past couple of days, I managed to hear Time Works, The Veiled Leopard, The Kingmaker and two of the stories from Sarah Jane Smith's second series with Big Finish. I don't know if it's the difference in venue, but I mostly enjoyed them all, except maybe for the Veiled Leopard. Time Works is an interesting Eight story and definitely in his vein, with weird out-of-normal-time stuff, a dystopian society, and whatnot. It's pretty standard fair for him, Charlie and C'Rizz, but the acting and effects have gotten so good, that it was quite enjoyable. The Veiled Leopard opens with a boob joke, notes that it is making a boob joke, makes another boob joke, then waits a little while before making yet another boob joke. It was a good idea for a story two sets of the Doctor's companions, and telling the story twice from each of their perspectives, but the execution was lacking, and the Agatha Christie stock characters really had absolutely nothing to do in between Peri and Erimem being giddy and whatnot. The Kingmaker is decent comedy. I think it goes on a bit long. I love Jon Culshaw's cameo. Stephen Beckett really makes it, as does the revelation that a lot of the problem was essentially because the Doctor was drunk driving the TARDIS. I general, I just have trouble with Peri. I have tried to accept that she's just a weird, 80s English version of what an American woman of the time would be like, and I admit that adding Erinem and interpreting her a bit differently than she was on the TV helps, but her fake accent grates on me and it just makes Five's ending and Six's beginning all the more awkward that she and the Doctor were so chummy before he regenerated. 
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Oct 26, 2014 23:25
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Bicyclops posted:The Kingmaker is decent comedy. I think it goes on a bit long. I love Jon Culshaw's cameo. Stephen Beckett really makes it, as does the revelation that a lot of the problem was essentially because the Doctor was drunk driving the TARDIS. I general, I just have trouble with Peri. I have tried to accept that she's just a weird, 80s English version of what an American woman of the time would be like, and I admit that adding Erinem and interpreting her a bit differently than she was on the TV helps, but her fake accent grates on me and it just makes Five's ending and Six's beginning all the more awkward that she and the Doctor were so chummy before he regenerated. If not for The Kingmaker, I'd happily write off all Five-and-Peri stories between Planet and Androzani as, well, "not counting". The character dynamics just don't line up with what we saw on-screen (which is a rather frequent problem for Peri, it would seem  ).Unfortunately, The Kingmaker is goddamn incredible.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:29
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Jet Jaguar posted:The Onion's AV Club reviewer gives it a B. Oh, if you liked that, you'll love this: http://www.philipsandifer.com/2014/10/in-forest-of-night-review.html quote:Certainly this has loads of good politics. The angry snarl against reflexive and unthinking use of psychiatric meds, and against pathologizing people is beautiful.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:37
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I think the point of the little girl was that she wasn't actually mentality ill, and the Doctor knew that.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:46
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Autonomous Monster posted:Oh, if you liked that, you'll love this: http://www.philipsandifer.com/2014/10/in-forest-of-night-review.html This is a bad person with bad ideas. Kill the Moon Listen In the Forest of the Night The Caretaker Mummy on the Orient Express Deep Breath Flatline Into the Dalek Time Heist Robot of Sherwood That ranking of this season's episodes is trying for the Chewbacca Defense. Kill the Moon the best episode of the season over Flatline? Time Heist worse than In the Forest of the Night and Deep Breath? 
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Oct 26, 2014 23:47
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Phil Sandifer spent two-ish years writing absolutely brilliant reviews and analysis of Clasic Who. Then, right after wrapping on Survival, he started becoming increasingly unhinged. This is the man who once accused me of tacitly supporting domestic-violence apologia because of The Coat. This is a person who, apparantly, doesn't consider 'visions' to be a sign of a mental condition: Phil Sandifer on Tumblr posted:
Phil's a tremendous fan of Blake (try reading his The Three Doctors post sometime... or, rather, don't, because it's impenetrable without a PHD in English Lit and an open copy of The Collected William Blake), so I can't say that this surprises me... ...but he's out of his gourd, which is a shame because sometimes he's SO TOTALLY ON-POINT (denouncing The Celestial Toymaker or laying smackdowns on folks who obsess over scientific accuracy in Doctor Who) and other times he's like that.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:03
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My favorite part was where Sandifer decided to write off everything from the novels and Big Finish, including the high quality canon stuff they are still producing now, as irrelevant.  I was just listening to Industrial Evolution and it was kinda jarring when they kept talking to that guy's daughter Clara. Then it dawned on me...what if she WAS Clara? 
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Oct 27, 2014 00:17
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DoctorWhat posted:Phil Sandifer spent two-ish years writing absolutely brilliant reviews and analysis of Clasic Who. Then, right after wrapping on Survival, he started becoming increasingly unhinged. This happens to a surprising number of people who watch all of classic Doctor Who.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:20
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Random Stranger posted:This happens to a surprising number of people who watch all of classic Doctor Who. Neil and Sue Perryman of The Wife in Space managed to come out exactly as bonkers as they were going in, which is probably the best you could hope for.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:21
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I just watched the episode there, and it wasnt good. I've generally thought this season has ranged from poor (the Caretaker, kill the moon)to okay but forgetable (Deep Breath, Enter the Dalek) to good (Flatline, Mummy on the orient express), but that was the first one for me that I've thought was out and out bad. I think part of it was that there were so many parts where I thought "Oh, this should be interesting!" that came to nothing. When the caretaker at the museum flubbed the security code and they opened the doors to the forest I thought maybe it was going to be that the alarm was some weird technology that had opened a door to a future london abandoned to the forests, but no. When they made a big show of the doctor being asked about the little girl I thought clara was going to respond "But there was no child called that on this trip!" or something, but no. There were sinister figures in heatproof suits with flamethrowers... who did nothing. There were wolves and a tiger... who did nothing. That whole section with the girl running away and them catching up with her could have been cut with the firefly scene happening outside the tardis and nothing of value would have been lost. They spent about half the episode setting up a little red riding hood motif that was then just forgotten about entirely. The (hopefully unintentional) message of "Hey kids, hearing voices is fine, you dont need medication" was troubling, mental health issues carry enough of a stigma without a hugely popular family show having the main character basically say "You people, why do you always medicate away the voices" or words to that effect. Also; Clara is a loving dreadful teacher. Even before the "We'll take the kids home so they can die with their parents rather than save them" bit, every time we see her with a class she is loving awful. Probably more grating for me because I'm a teacher, but it annoys me every time they have set stuff in the school this season. From the lack of control of her classes, to the lack of interest she has in her pupils to the blatant breach of data protection.
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Oct 27, 2014 00:24
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