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I'd say stick with abercrombie, the story and characters get much better in book two. I'd also recommend the prince of thorns trilogy, strong from start to finish. My biggest problem with fantasy series is that they tend to peter out after starting on a strong premise. Wise mans fear suffers from this. Felurian and the ketan, building kvothe up constantly. He's just not an interesting character to me.
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Oct 24, 2014 01:37
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I just finished First Law yesertday and I'd recommend it. My only real issue with it is as it's ending because Bayaz, who's clearly a massive shitlord, is just getting more and more dumb puppetmaster-style poo poo going on and on and he ends up such an over the top "true badguy" that all he was lacking was a mustache twirl as he walked away with Sulfur and the box. Apparently none of the other Magi (except one) ever seemed to really doubt him either. The story did keep my interest more than pretty much any part of either Kvothe book though. I hope the 3rd one gets moving because if I wanted to read about dumb magic school poo poo with the occasional interesting adventure I'd go read Harry Potter.
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Oct 24, 2014 02:09
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adamarama posted:I'd also recommend the prince of thorns trilogy, strong from start to finish. I love the setting and ancillary characters, but Jorg or whatever is like if Kvothe and King Joffrey had a love child.
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Oct 24, 2014 02:14
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I saw posts and thought "oh yeah! The Slow Regard of Silent Things is out soon, maybe it was this week!" Nope, next week.
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Oct 24, 2014 02:16
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Dienes posted:I love the setting and ancillary characters, but Jorg or whatever is like if Kvothe and King Joffrey had a love child. Yeah, gently caress that guy and that trilogy. I'm going to try the spinoff though (Prince of Fools).
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Oct 24, 2014 02:23
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the JJ posted:Yeah, I had the same reaction to the first Abercrombie. I mean, it ends with "and now we have assembled our party and shall venture forth." Like seriously, there's the GM's wizard dude, the barbarian, the inevitable knife chick with a history of sexual violence from the guy who is trying too hard, generic fighter because someone couldn't be arsed to create a more interesting character, and that friend who dropped in last minute with a sheet from a totally different campaign. It really felt like a DnD party getting together. I'm told the next books do better and I trust goons so it's still on my list but it didn't grab me and make it a priority. The second and third book do a fantastic job of twisting and subverting all of those tropes.
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Oct 24, 2014 02:40
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adamarama posted:I'd say stick with abercrombie, the story and characters get much better in book two. I'd also recommend the prince of thorns trilogy, strong from start to finish. My biggest problem with fantasy series is that they tend to peter out after starting on a strong premise. Wise mans fear suffers from this. Felurian and the ketan, building kvothe up constantly. He's just not an interesting character to me. I don't mean to be a dick here, but I've heard a lot about how good Prince of Thorns is, and, well... I'm not seeing it. There were a ton of interesting ideas, but they're never even satisfyingly explored, let alone fully. Any depth has to come from the reader since it's all just sketched out in the story at best. There's a LOT of books I'd recommend before Prince of Thorns if you like/kind of like Abercrombie. For starters: R. Scott Bakker - Prince of Nothing Richard K. Morgan - A Land Fit for Heroes Glen Cook - The Black Company Robin Hobb - At least the first two cycles, I've got two to go Peter V. Brett - The Demon Cycle Daniel Abraham - Just all of it Scott Lynch - The Lies of Locke Lamora (I think this is going to go to interesting places but right now it's mostly potential) Kevin Hearne - The Iron Druid (this is at the bottom but goddamn it's a great palette cleanser between other series and I really enjoy reading it) List is in very rough order of dark as gently caress and deep -> interesting and different -> occasionally gritty pulp that's fun to read. But honestly, Prince of Thorns didn't impress me at all, start to finish. And I didn't pick that turn of phrase to try to be a dick--I just wasn't impressed with how it started, with the body, and especially with how it ended, and only after a quick check did I realize that I used the exact same phrase as you. Maybe it was just in my head from reading your post. Anyway. Did not like. Thought it was shallow, nothing new, tried too hard to be dark, didn't justify character progression enough and still managed to change the main character way too much at the end. Which also pretty much came out of nowhere.
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Oct 25, 2014 10:59
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the JJ posted:Yeah, I had the same reaction to the first Abercrombie. I mean, it ends with "and now we have assembled our party and shall venture forth." Like seriously, there's the GM's wizard dude, the barbarian, the inevitable knife chick with a history of sexual violence from the guy who is trying too hard, generic fighter because someone couldn't be arsed to create a more interesting character, and that friend who dropped in last minute with a sheet from a totally different campaign. It really felt like a DnD party getting together. I'm told the next books do better and I trust goons so it's still on my list but it didn't grab me and make it a priority. That's exactly what it's supposed to feel like. It's part of the gimmick. Don't worry, he mixes things up later.
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Oct 25, 2014 16:48
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Ithaqua posted:The second and third book do a fantastic job of twisting and subverting all of those tropes. That's the entire point of the series, I'd argue. I guess the unfortunate part is that in order to subvert the tropes you've got to make the object of that subversion obvious. Thus book 1; however, I finished book 1 completely satisfied with the thought that this story was not going to be some guys tabletop campaign. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Oct 25, 2014 |
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Oct 25, 2014 22:03
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ZombieLenin posted:That's the entire point of the series, I'd argue. I guess the unfortunate part is that in order to subvert the tropes you've got to make the object of that subversion obvious. Thus book 1; however, I finished book 1 completely satisfied with the thought that this story was not going to be some guys tabletop campaign. Blind Melon posted:That's exactly what it's supposed to feel like. It's part of the gimmick. Don't worry, he mixes things up later. So the goonmind tells me. It's just the first book didn't push it super high on my priority list and I've already, I dunno, had the perfect fantasy deconstructions I need at the moment? Maybe I'm off base but if that's the selling point, well, I can just reread my Terry Pratchett, you know? I'll get to it.
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Oct 26, 2014 06:44
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We were talking about Robin Hobbs work on page 66, and I just wanted to touch on something, because when I started reading the Assassin's apprentice series, I really enjoyed it - I thought that despite clearly being fantasy the ending was immensely satisfying. I then later found out about The Tawny Man trilogy and read all three, and ended up feeling extremely dissatisfied with it. In a lot of ways it read as bad author insert fanfiction and retro-actively ruined Molly as a character for me. I've had a few people ask me about the books, and the advice I almost universally give is, read the first Assassin's apprentice trilogy, and avoid the Tawny Man trilogy. Does anyone else feel the same way? And what are her other books like?
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Oct 26, 2014 09:00
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wellwhoopdedooo posted:Kevin Hearne - The Iron Druid (this is at the bottom but goddamn it's a great palette cleanser between other series and I really enjoy reading it) Rothfuss is a a big Dresden Files fan actually.
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Oct 26, 2014 14:58
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I once attempted to read one of those Iron Druid books and holy poo poo it was really bad and makes the self-insertion seen in Rothfuss' stuff look completely non-existent by comparison.
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Oct 26, 2014 15:41
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I found The Blade Itself pretty average except the end with the Bloody 9 reveal  but kept going since I'd heard the advice given in this thread before reading (that book 1 is setup and it gets really good). I wouldn't call the series a classic or anything but I really enjoyed it. Abercrombie's becoming a really good writer and I look forward to his future work.I can't tell what I think of Kingkiller yet. Sometimes it seems great, sometimes it's like "this is loving terrible". Hopefully #3 will sort it out. Ross fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 16:18
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the JJ posted:So the goonmind tells me. It's just the first book didn't push it super high on my priority list and I've already, I dunno, had the perfect fantasy deconstructions I need at the moment? Maybe I'm off base but if that's the selling point, well, I can just reread my Terry Pratchett, you know? I'll get to it. Terry Prachett and Joe Abercrombie are obviously very different. Terry Prachett, taking nothing away from the man's loving genius, is doing a straight forward parody with blended satire. Joe Abercrombie is taking fantasy tropes more seriously, then twisting them in pretty hosed up ways until they almost aren't recognizable. It's way more, in my mind, about that journey. Now having said that, I do not want to beat you over the head with goon hive mind peer pressure. It's fair enough if you just don't like Abercrombie. There isn't anything wrong with that. I can personally just give you my take/critique on his writing and offer you advice--keep reading--based on my tastes. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Oct 26, 2014 |
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Oct 26, 2014 23:04
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I was honestly a little disappointed with The First Law but that was mostly just because it receives so much praise by TBB that my expectations were unrealistic. As far as overall quality of writing in the genre I think it's hard to top Joe Abercrombie right now. I was looking for something to fill the time until Winds of Winter comes out (  ) and it was perfect for that.I'll stop posting about this in the wrong thread now.
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Oct 26, 2014 23:27
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Prince of Thorns was well-written, but I feel it tries a little too hard. Plus, the author's a loving creep, so there's that. Anyway, to recommend something new The Emperor's Blades by Brian Staveley is very fun and fast-paced. Something exciting after relentless grimdark cynicism.
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Oct 27, 2014 01:59
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anathenema posted:Prince of Thorns was well-written, but I feel it tries a little too hard. Plus, the author's a loving creep, so there's that. What? Mark Lawrence writes some messed-up stuff on occasion, but he's pretty far from a creep. Most of what he posts online is just raffles for copies of his books, with proceeds going to the hospice service his daughter uses, or goofy contests for the same books. Edit: I get the impression you're confusing Prince of Thorns with The Prince of Nothing. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 02:25
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Ornamented Death posted:What? Mark Lawrence writes some messed-up stuff on occasion, but he's pretty far from a creep. Most of what he posts online is just raffles for copies of his books, with proceeds going to the hospice service his daughter uses, or goofy contests for the same books. Usually, sure. But there was that time he sicced his fanbase on another author for tweeting that she didn't like his book.
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Oct 27, 2014 03:19
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We have reached the point where "was a jerk on the internet once" is seriously a disclaimer being used?
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Oct 27, 2014 03:20
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anathenema posted:Usually, sure. But there was that time he sicced his fanbase on another author for tweeting that she didn't like his book. Without digging through his blog archive, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this was one of several cases where he quoted a "review" that made a lot of blatantly false claims about his books because they didn't bother to read past the first ten pages. From there his fans probably dog-piled on whoever he called out, which is unfortunate, but hardly makes him a creep. It's more likely he just didn't realize that would happen because he didn't know how terrible people online are. He doesn't do this anymore, instead choosing to discuss parts of emails he receives, keeping the authors of those emails anonymous. quote:We have reached the point where "was a jerk on the internet once" is seriously a disclaimer being used? It's just an example of how ridiculous the fandom of sci-fi and fantasy has gotten. There's a group of people (and I'll include myself here) that won't read anything by certain writers based on a history of being a worthless human being (Card and Simmons being two frequently brought up). There's a decent argument to be made here for separating the artist from their work, but it's been covered numerous times elsewhere on this forum so I won't get in to it other than to say that I think both sides have valid points. However, other people have gone way, way too far with this and will vilify anyone that has ever made any sort of mistake or said something without thinking about it first, even if they immediately issued a retraction or apology. I mean, seriously, just look at anathema's argument: "Sure, that guy does a lot to raise money for children's hospices, but gently caress him, he's a creep because he once did a mean thing on twitter." Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 03:44
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Ornamented Death posted:Without digging through his blog archive, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this was one of several cases where he quoted a "review" that made a lot of blatantly false claims about his books because they didn't bother to read past the first ten pages. From there his fans probably dog-piled on whoever he called out, which is unfortunate, but hardly makes him a creep. In this case, it was a reviewer tweeting that she read it and didn't care for what she perceived as a lack of female agency. At which point, he did exactly what you said and exactly that happened. I thought it was pretty gross, considering she requested he not do that and he more or less just giggled at her. quote:It's just an example of how ridiculous the fandom of sci-fi and fantasy has gotten. There's a group of people (and I'll include myself here) that won't read anything by certain writers based on a history of being a worthless human being (Card and Simmons being two frequently brought up). There's a decent argument to be made here for separating the artist from their work, but it's been covered numerous times elsewhere on this forum so I won't get in to it other than to say that I think both sides have valid points. I will agree with this, too.
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Oct 27, 2014 03:53
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anathenema posted:In this case, it was a reviewer tweeting that she read it and didn't care for what she perceived as a lack of female agency. At which point, he did exactly what you said and exactly that happened. I thought it was pretty gross, considering she requested he not do that and he more or less just giggled at her. Wait. This reviewer wrote a negative review, or had something negative to say, then specifically called Lawrence's attention to it on the supremely public forum that is Twitter, and was then upset when he and his fans responded? I mean, it's a dick move if he called for a response, no doubt, but you have to be kind of dumb to not expect some level of response if you're baiting someone like that. Edit: For clarity's sake, since that up there toes the line of victim-blaming, I see nothing wrong with challenging the validity of the reviewer's claims. Since this is the internet and people are horrible, I'm sure it was a lot worse than that, and gently caress anyone that took it any farther than a purely academic argument. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 04:14
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tithin posted:We were talking about Robin Hobbs work on page 66, and I just wanted to touch on something, because when I started reading the Assassin's apprentice series, I really enjoyed it - I thought that despite clearly being fantasy the ending was immensely satisfying. I liked Tawny Man. I read it long after I read the original trilogy so I didn't really compare them much. Her Liveship series was very enjoyable back when I read it. I remember it having some great characters and a good soapy plot with lots of twists and turns and such. I loved the first book of her Soldier Son trilogy. I really dug the setting and premise in that one but liked the series less with each new book, mainly due to her bringing the story away from all the stuff I found most interesting about the setting in the first. I tried the first of her Rainwild books but just couldn't get into it. I guess it's sort of similar to how I felt about Soldier Son and how I like her books the least when they're away from civilization and focus on the major magical race.
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Oct 27, 2014 04:45
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Ornamented Death posted:Wait. This reviewer wrote a negative review, or had something negative to say, then specifically called Lawrence's attention to it on the supremely public forum that is Twitter, and was then upset when he and his fans responded? I mean, it's a dick move if he called for a response, no doubt, but you have to be kind of dumb to not expect some level of response if you're baiting someone like that. No. She posted that she didn't care for the story to her own twitter feed. It somehow came to Lawrence's attention and he retweeted it to his followers, at which point they flooded her feed with a lot of namecalling and other internet behaviors. She asked him to tell them to stop. I'm not sure if he did or didn't. But he also likes trotting out his Tor.com review, which always gets the reviewer lots of nasty emails. quote:Edit: For clarity's sake, since that up there toes the line of victim-blaming, I see nothing wrong with challenging the validity of the reviewer's claims. Since this is the internet and people are horrible, I'm sure it was a lot worse than that, and gently caress anyone that took it any farther than a purely academic argument. It was pretty grotesque.
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Oct 27, 2014 05:45
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I've heard he's still calling in the dogs years after the fact, yeah. The usual 'I can't control my fans but they do this consistently every time I mention this person who I coincidentally keep mentioning' schtick.
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Oct 27, 2014 06:08
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Ornamented Death posted:Without digging through his blog archive, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess this was one of several cases where he quoted a "review" that made a lot of blatantly false claims about his books because they didn't bother to read past the first ten pages. From there his fans probably dog-piled on whoever he called out, which is unfortunate, but hardly makes him a creep. For someone like Card I'll rent his books from a library to read them, or pick them up used. As long as money doesn't go into his pocket I can still enjoy his books.
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Oct 27, 2014 06:09
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www.wired.com posted:Patrick Rothfuss is the author of the mega-bestselling novels The Name of the Wind and The Wise Man’s Fear, and is currently hard at work on The Doors of Stone, the final volume in his epic fantasy trilogy The Kingkiller Chronicle. His latest book, The Slow Regard of Silent Things, is a novella set in the same world. This new book is enough of a departure that Rothfuss took the unusual step of writing an author’s introduction that begins, “You might not want to buy this book.” That may cost him some sales, but will hopefully result in fewer disappointed readers. The rest of the article is here and goes on to say that the book delves into Auri's mind and lacks action scenes and witty banter. Makes me wonder if this will either make or break the 'he write beautiful prose' debate, because I'm guessing this is going to be the kind of book that really doesn't work without it... (and for some people won't work even with it). The comments aren't, on the whole, filling me with a desire to get ahold of the book right this minute.
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Oct 27, 2014 10:37
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Maud Moonshine posted:The rest of the article is here and goes on to say that the book delves into Auri's mind and lacks action scenes and witty banter. Makes me wonder if this will either make or break the 'he write beautiful prose' debate, because I'm guessing this is going to be the kind of book that really doesn't work without it... (and for some people won't work even with it). The comments aren't, on the whole, filling me with a desire to get ahold of the book right this minute. Reported for the derail
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Oct 27, 2014 11:24
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It's hard for me to tell at this point whether Rothfuss saying I might not like it means I might like it or means I definitely won't like it or means gently caress all or what.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:22
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TychoCelchuuu posted:It's hard for me to tell at this point whether Rothfuss saying I might not like it means I might like it or means I definitely won't like it or means gently caress all or what. Yeah. It kind of makes me not like him? I may be prejudiced by other things I have read from him, but it comes across a little pretentious - as if he's saying 'this book is too smart/abstract/literary for you'.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:26
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the JJ posted:So the goonmind tells me. It's just the first book didn't push it super high on my priority list and I've already, I dunno, had the perfect fantasy deconstructions I need at the moment? Maybe I'm off base but if that's the selling point, well, I can just reread my Terry Pratchett, you know? I'll get to it. Nobody is going to force you to read it, or care if you don't. Personally I feel that the first book is the weakest of the trilogy and I enjoyed reading the whole thing, but do whatever makes you happy. It's also totally different than Pratchett.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:39
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Maud Moonshine posted:Yeah. It kind of makes me not like him? I may be prejudiced by other things I have read from him, but it comes across a little pretentious - as if he's saying 'this book is too smart/abstract/literary for you'. Rothfuss being up his own rear end is hardly news. If anything, I'm more surprised that the press isn't more in a GRRM - "Why isn't he writing the thing we actually care about!?" mode.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:47
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Ornamented Death posted:(Card and Simmons being two frequently brought up). I liked Hyperion so much.  I mean, the sequels got progressively worse but it's really good and it has such a good sell too. Chaucer meets Keats over a succession of your favorite sci-fi staples done really really really loving well.
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Oct 28, 2014 01:31
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Karnegal posted:Rothfuss being up his own rear end is hardly news. If anything, I'm more surprised that the press isn't more in a GRRM - "Why isn't he writing the thing we actually care about!?" mode. Well, GRRM never met a potential plot thread that he didn't blow up into its own story arc.
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Oct 28, 2014 01:35
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In reading the first book Auri definitely seemed shoehorned in for no good reason, but look at how manic pixie she is oh golly isn't she special. Of course he wrote a book about her, that was the plan all along.
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Oct 28, 2014 01:46
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Boing posted:In reading the first book Auri definitely seemed shoehorned in for no good reason, but look at how manic pixie she is oh golly isn't she special. Of course he wrote a book about her, that was the plan all along. Yeaaaaaah. I'll give the book a chance though I think my tolerance will be p low.
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Oct 28, 2014 03:38
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The Slow Regard of Silent Things is out! Finished enough studying tonight that I'm going to settle in and start reading with a bit of apprehension.
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Oct 28, 2014 05:12
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Star War Sex Parrot posted:The Slow Regard of Silent Things is out! Finished enough studying tonight that I'm going to settle in and start reading with a bit of apprehension.
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Oct 28, 2014 08:02
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Gurm is arguably a special case in that there's a genuine question if he'll survive to finish the series.
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Oct 28, 2014 13:52
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