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That's a dilly of a pickle to be in. You combine for ~$25k take home anually and you have much more than that in debt or judgments against you. Is bankruptcy an available option? It might be the best way to clear this mess and get a fresh start, but you have to be ready and willing to live within your means after declaring.
Nocheez fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 13:58
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Nocheez posted:That's a dilly of a pickle to be in. You combine for ~$25k take home and you have many times that in debt or judgments against you. Is bankruptcy an available option? It might be the best way to clear this mess and get a fresh start, but you have to be ready and willing to live within your means after declaring. Yes, and yes. We've had an over-the-phone consultation with a bankruptcy lawyer as of late last week, who recommended a joint filing for chapter 7. We're waiting on an info packet to be sent to us, and in the meantime, we've turned to here for help learning to keep this poo poo sorted after it's all is said and done.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:01
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neogeo0823 posted:Yes, and yes. We've had an over-the-phone consultation with a bankruptcy lawyer as of late last week, who recommended a joint filing for chapter 7. We're waiting on an info packet to be sent to us, and in the meantime, we've turned to here for help learning to keep this poo poo sorted after it's all is said and done. I edited my original post, but it looks like that is the right way to go. For now, keep paying your bills for rent, car, utilities, insurance, etc. as you have been. You need to take a good, hard look at what you need to survive going forward. Can you cut out cable and go to a cheaper internet package? The answer to this question should be an easy "YES!" if you really are committed to getting control of your finances. My wife and I are in the 80 percentile for household income and we haven't had cable TV for a decade and really don't miss it. Netflix at $9/month is a very cheap alternative if you must have more than over-the-air TV. Next, we need to look at your car situation. That payment is reasonable, and I hope it's a short term loan for a cheap vehicle. What kind of vehicle is it, and what's the loan look like (term and APR)? Owning a boring and cheap car may seem like a downer, but when you detach your self-worth from the kind of car you drive you will be happier and improve your financial situation. I drive a 16 year old Miata and my wife drives an 8 year old Matrix (AKA Corolla wagon) for when we have to move more stuff or people. Both cars are easy on gas, and cheap to run and maintain. Neither are going to win a popularity contest. Other than that, you look to have your bills under control outside of the debt. Why did you go into debt in the first place? Are you spending beyond your means? Do you fall for the 0% APR scheme where you promise to pay something off in full, but then stop making payments because you're falling behind somewhere else? You don't need to go into specifics, but if you haven't fixed this you will end up in this situation again. Let's also talk about income. What prospects do you have for making more money? Can you sell things that you aren't using much now to make some quick cash? Can you do work on the side? Do you have any training or experience that you can utilize to get a better paying job? What about your wife? Can she find better, more consistent work? I started in a call center and picked up as many hours as I could stand. I was working 70 hours a week on average, and all day Sunday for that sweet, sweet double-time pay. The upside of working all the time was that I didn't have any free time to spend money at bars or on toys. Finally, do you check your budget regularly to make sure you are staying on track? Do you deny yourself extra purchases for things that aren't in the budget for the month? Do you save discretionary money until you can afford something a little more expensive? Make sure you are being honest with your money situation, and try to find cheaper ways of being happy. Hiking trails, free concerts, and cheap art projects are some ways that I find that I can have just as much fun without spending a lot of money. Thrift shops are a great source of cheap clothing and home items. Be creative! Good luck. You're starting on a tough but completely worthwhile journey. Welcome to adulthood  Remember, the people worth keeping in your life don't care what car you drive, what labels you wear on your clothes, or how big your home is.
Nocheez fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Oct 27, 2014 |
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Oct 27, 2014 14:21
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Yeah, pretty much all of that is covered in the E/N thread. To keep it as short as possible, there's 2 internet/cable providers in our area, and I've got a chunk of debt with the cheaper one. We're currently stuck in a contract with the more expensive one, and it's cheaper to have TV and internet together through them than one or the other. As far as the car, I've got a 2010 Honda Civic that I'm able to pay for on time without issue. The loan is at 16%, which is crap, but then again, it was the best I could get, given my credit score and financial situation. At least I didn't get it from some shady buy-here-pay-here place. It's also a very reliable car, and with basic maintenance it should last an incredibly long while. As for why I went into debt, it mostly stems from a combination of never being taught how to keep my finances under control, and my mother forcing me to provide 50% of the income into the house on a minimum wage part time job. I lived beyond my means for years while I was still living at home, and it wasn't until I moved out with my wife and spent a year laid off that my habits with money began to change for better. Still, all that old debt is lingering, and this year a couple of the creditors have begun garnishing my wages, which makes saving money extremely difficult. As far as making more money, that's a... difficult situation that's pretty much best left completely to E/N. Suffice to say that we don't have any valuable assets we can sell for cash, but that once we file, our wage garnishments will stop, which will net us at least $400 more every month. Finally, we deny ourselves almost every little extra expense that isn't necessary. We almost never dine out, we don't buy anything frivolous, we don't buy clothing unless it's needed(even then, I get all my pants from the Salvation Army), etc. etc.. We don't have any sort of savings as of right now, but we're hoping to start that as soon as possible with the help of this thread.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:53
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I find it hard to believe that the only internet option available to you is $100/month. With you so close to the ragged edge, nothing should be off the table. Are you friendly with neighbors that will let you mooch internet via Wi-Fi for a while? Every penny you can scrape together at this point will help you snowball your savings.
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Oct 27, 2014 14:57
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Neo- do you live in the U.S.? I am poor and after taxes and deductions (health, 401k) make more than you and your wife combined. She would make more money working at McDonalds. Your spending habits seem decent but you're never going to live comfortably unless you both get new jobs. It's a down economy and all but you can literally make better money picking fruit. If you have a HS diploma or better you can get a better paying job, you just need to look and don't stop looking until you get one.
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Oct 27, 2014 16:31
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neogeo0823 posted:As far as the car, I've got a 2010 Honda Civic that I'm able to pay for on time without issue. The loan is at 16%, which is crap, Can you sell this car and buy a more sensible one? You're way too poor for a car that nice, and you're also way too poor to afford a 16% loan on said car.
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Oct 27, 2014 17:18
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tesilential posted:Neo- do you live in the U.S.? Where the hell do you live, and when can I move out there? I live in New York. Minimum wage here is, iirc, $8/hour. Don't forget that the incomes I listed factor in taxes, wage garnishments, and in my wife's case, the absolute worst case for hours she could ever possibly have. posh spaz posted:Can you sell this car and buy a more sensible one? You're way too poor for a car that nice, and you're also way too poor to afford a 16% loan on said car. While this has been suggested, if I were to sell it right now, it would be at a huge loss compared to what I paid for it. I do plan to try and refinance it once the bankruptcy goes through, since I suspect I'll see a significant jump in my credit rating after that.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:53
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neogeo0823 posted:I do plan to try and refinance it once the bankruptcy goes through, since I suspect I'll see a significant jump in my credit rating after that. Bankruptcies are pretty well-known to lower credit scores. Maybe you should read this: http://credit.about.com/od/creditreportscoring/a/FICO-score-damage.htm "Bankruptcy, the person with 680 credit score would lose between 130 and 150 points, while the person with 780 credit score would lose between 220 and 240 points. Bankruptcy hurts your credit score the most since it affects several credit accounts and reflects negatively on your payment history, which is 35% of your FICO score." If your credit is so bad you've got a 16% car loan now, I'd hate to see what it'll drop to post-bankruptcy.
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Oct 27, 2014 18:59
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posh spaz posted:Bankruptcies are pretty well-known to lower credit scores. Maybe you should read this: Welp, that I did not know. If that's the case, I'd still rather keep the car. If for nothing else, the fact that I'm paying for it on time every month is really the only positive thing going on my credit report right now. I wouldn't want to stop that and have literally no accounts open that are in good standing, especially when I'm currently able to pay for it.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:06
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What is the current outstanding balance on the car, and how many more years do you have until it's paid off? Also, this: neogeo0823 posted:Especially when I'm currently able to pay for it. is insane. Given your current finances, you can't actually really afford to pay for anything. Having the cash flow for something isn't the same as being "able to afford" something.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:14
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Ok, fair enough. I'm at work right now, so I don't have the specific numbers in front of me. I can let you know when I get home tonight. Still, isn't the fact that it's pretty much my only positive/good standing account worth anything, or does that truly make no difference at this point?
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Oct 27, 2014 19:25
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neogeo0823 posted:Still, isn't the fact that it's pretty much my only positive/good standing account worth anything, or does that truly make no difference at this point? IMO, if you're ever going to dig yourself out of the financial shithole you've dug for yourself, every option needs to be on the table. You should also approach ever single expense from the perspective that no, you can't actually afford it. I don't know if selling the car is a good idea, but you should look at how much interest you'll pay on the car, the loss you'll take on the car, the cost of buying a cheaper car, as well as total-cost-of-ownership stuff like mpg, repairs, etc. The interest you'll pay on an expensive car at 16% could easily push $10k over the life of the loan. That alone could buy like 5 late-90s used cars.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:44
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Good point. One thing I definitely want to do is aggressively pay any debts that would remain, such as my car, after bankruptcy. I know for a fact that we'll be bringing in at least $400 more per month once our wage garnishments go away, and it's not like we're planning on increasing our spending or taking on more debt to cover that extra income. So realistically, at least most of that can go into paying down the car faster. To give a hypothetical, if I owed $10k on the car, and I was paying my standard $262/month, I'd end up paying it off in a bit about 38 months. If I were to pay, for example, $500/month, I'd pay it off in just 20 months, which would be a massive savings in interest.
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Oct 27, 2014 19:52
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Neo, it sounds like you get stuck pretty easily in feast-or-famine mode. You need to do some deep thinking about where your money goes right now - the budget you posted is up $471 with 'worst-case-scenario' modeling of your wife's income, which makes me think it isn't realistic. Do you have cell phones? How about other transportation costs? There's also planning for the life cycle of items that may wear out or break - your electronics, clothing, furniture. If your job has you on your feet a lot you need to budget for new shoes; if you're on call for a job you need to have a backup plan for your phone. When you get into financial crash diet mentality, you end up drowning in one-time 'exceptions' that shouldn't be a big deal because on paper in the worst-case scenario you're saving almost $500 per month. Budgeting money towards things, whether via an envelope system or a series of bank accounts, encourages forethought and reinforces the concept of saving up to buy something.
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Oct 27, 2014 20:11
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Engineer Lenk posted:Neo, it sounds like you get stuck pretty easily in feast-or-famine mode. You need to do some deep thinking about where your money goes right now - the budget you posted is up $471 with 'worst-case-scenario' modeling of your wife's income, which makes me think it isn't realistic. Do you have cell phones? How about other transportation costs? My cell phone is paid for by my employer, and my wife's is paid for by her parents, due to being on a family plan. My wife takes the bus when I'm not available to drive her to/from work, but how often that is varies quite a bit. It is an expense she should track though, so I'll ask her to start paying attention to it more closely. As far as clothes, I generally don't have or buy a lot. In a year I might buy one or two pairs of pants, shorts, shirts, shoes, and maybe a pack of socks/boxers. I utilize the local Salvation Army/Goodwill/thrift shops when possible, but typically buy shoes when they're on sale at Payless or Walmart, so <$20 for those. Furniture-wise, we've had all our furniture for about 3 or 4 years now, and it's all in good overall condition. My wife typically follows the same line of thought with regards to all of that, but I agree that we should be keeping closer track of that as well. One thing I did do today is open up a new bank account for my wife and I. The purpose of this account will be to direct deposit a portion of our paychecks into it every pay period, and then use that money to pay monthly bills. It's also set up to be as annoying to withdraw from as possible for us. Our main accounts are linked to each other to facilitate easy money transfers, while this one is not linked to anything. Our main accounts have debit cards, and this one does not. Basically, if we want to withdraw money from this account, we need to go to a branch of our bank and withdraw it by hand. Further, we won't just be depositing the bare minimum for the bills, either. We'll be putting aside a couple hundred dollars every month as a savings as well. We plan to start off at about $200/month, to see where that leaves us as far as actual spending money is concerned, and then adjust it next month. Does that all sound sane? Should I do something different?
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Oct 27, 2014 21:07
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You're going to have to find a system that works for you. A budget is like dieting. What works for me may not work for you. You might need to try things a few different ways, which is all part of the process. You're using Mint, which may work for you, but I've never tried. I think setting up different bank accounts that are hard to use wouldn't work for me, but if it works for you, go for it. Before I used a budget, I would just look at my bank account, if it had money in it I felt rich and spent money until I felt poor, then stopped. That's the dumbest way to do finances. In my budget, my #1 principle is, "If you don't measure it, you can't control it." So I use my debit card for as many transactions as possible, and keep cash to a bare minimum. I also keep all of my cash receipts, or just enter totals immediately into the notepad function on my phone. I then enter items from my bank account semi-weekly. I just tracked my expenses on a spreadsheet, and kept track of savings in each category. For instance, in my car budget I put aside a bit of money each month to pay for future repairs. It was not relevant how much money was actually in my bank account. I had my budgeted amounts, and I put all my expenses there. By ignoring my bank account, that helped cut down on the "wealth effect" I had before. I'm using Gnucash now so I'm doing it a bit differently, but the principles are the same. One Weird Trick my wife got me to do is to make a weekly menu, and use that to make shopping lists. That cut down on me buying food I didn't really need. You might be able to cut down on your food budget a bit that way, I dunno.
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Oct 27, 2014 22:47
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posh spaz posted:I just tracked my expenses on a spreadsheet, and kept track of savings in each category. For instance, in my car budget I put aside a bit of money each month to pay for future repairs. It was not relevant how much money was actually in my bank account. I had my budgeted amounts, and I put all my expenses there. By ignoring my bank account, that helped cut down on the "wealth effect" I had before. That's essentially what I'm hoping this extra bank account will do. By putting more money than will be needed into it every week, we'll be building up a buffer that'll eventually become a significant savings. I'm only planning on checking in on it once a month for the first few, just to make sure that nothing's being overdrawn, then simply leaving it as-is unless I need to adjust(increase) the amount going into it. The practical upside, hopefully, will be the "out-of-sight-out-of-mind" effect, where we won't have to worry about our bills(we'll still be monitoring them, of course), or about saving money, because the direct deposit will be doing it for us. All we'll have to worry about is what we do with the part of our paycheck that goes into our regular accounts, which will go towards food, gas for the car, entertainment, and other small expenses. quote:One Weird Trick my wife got me to do is to make a weekly menu, and use that to make shopping lists. That cut down on me buying food I didn't really need. You might be able to cut down on your food budget a bit that way, I dunno. Already got that covered by a mile. We're regular patrons of the Help, I'm poor and want to make good food thread. It's a great resource for that sort of thing. Food's just generally expensive over here, and that $70/week also factors in toiletries, paper goods, and everything else that we'd buy at the store on a regular basis.
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Oct 27, 2014 23:35
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neogeo0823, you might want to consider posting your own thread. You may get better (or at least, more) advice, and it will be easier to keep track of your content versus other generic "how to budget" content, both for yourself and for others.
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Oct 28, 2014 02:19
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I am trying to make a budget for a job I am about to get. Its my first job since graduating college. I am an "exempt" (salary) employee making 48k. Whats the best way to calculate my monthly income?
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Nov 8, 2014 06:03
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Xeom posted:I am trying to make a budget for a job I am about to get. Its my first job since graduating college. I am an "exempt" (salary) employee making 48k. Whats the best way to calculate my monthly income? Until you get your first paycheck I've found ~48k/12*.72 to be a pretty solid estimate. Taxes effect it obviously but it's a rough start.
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Nov 8, 2014 06:16
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Xeom posted:I am trying to make a budget for a job I am about to get. Its my first job since graduating college. I am an "exempt" (salary) employee making 48k. Whats the best way to calculate my monthly income? I'd do 48k/12*.60 from deductions. Your 401k, health benefits, LOA insurance and all those things are going to eat up a good chunk of change.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:12
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Veskit posted:I'd do 48k/12*.60 from deductions. Your 401k, health benefits, LOA insurance and all those things are going to eat up a good chunk of change. wow 60%, that makes my budget extremely tight.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:29
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Xeom posted:wow 60%, that makes my budget extremely tight. That is the way it goes... you will probably be closer to 65% so set it up based on 60% and then the extra will help out.
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Nov 8, 2014 20:41
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Xeom posted:I am trying to make a budget for a job I am about to get. Its my first job since graduating college. I am an "exempt" (salary) employee making 48k. Whats the best way to calculate my monthly income?  If you can add, multiply, and read tables, then:
Sooo... if your medical is $100/mo, your 401k a 5% deduction, and your filing status is single with one exemption, you're looking at $2677/mo. Things change if: You have state taxes, student loan deductions, other deductions that the company doesn't cover (local/state labor), other non-exempt deductions, and many other things. Or in other words: spwrozek posted:... you will probably be closer to 65% so set it up based on 60% and then the extra will help out. 
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Nov 8, 2014 22:28
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:This all depends on the degree you received and whether or not you have to pay state income tax. If you did absolutely no mathematics in your degree whatsoever, then the answers given are sufficient. That's like, pretty condescending. None of that math is anything beyond middle school multiplication. Every person who has successfully completed 6th grade should have the tools to subtract and multiply numbers by percentages.
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Nov 8, 2014 22:51
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posh spaz posted:That's like, pretty condescending. None of that math is anything beyond middle school multiplication. Every person who has successfully completed 6th grade should have the tools to subtract and multiply numbers by percentages. I think all of us have days were we act like jerks, and Phantom can afford to be less of one today. Xeom posted:wow 60%, that makes my budget extremely tight. If you're willing to share we can help with the budget. I'm around that amount of income and survive, so you may have some room to cut some of your expenses if that ends up being tight.
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Nov 9, 2014 05:48
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posh spaz posted:That's like, pretty condescending. None of that math is anything beyond middle school multiplication. Every person who has successfully completed 6th grade ]b]should[/b] have the tools to subtract and multiply numbers by percentages. So then, in the last eight years, I've known my net monthly salary to within $0.15 before I got my first paycheck. And you (all)? And taxes, you all know your refund amounts already, right?
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Nov 9, 2014 06:01
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Veskit posted:I think all of us have days were we act like jerks, and Phantom can afford to be less of one today. Right now I am sticking to the 65% I don't want to imagine the 60% as I would basically never be able to afford to do anything; Maybe stay at home and maybe watch netflix, while wondering why I studied engineering just to be broke :V. Yearly Income:48000 Monthly Earnings:4000 Net Income(65%):2600 Housing:800 (I am hoping a 1/1 with washer and drier, could end up being a bit cheaper) Utilities:350 Transporation: 300 (includes fuel and insurance, better not do anything but drive to work and back) Food:225 Insurance:0(work, and premium is already taken care of in %) Loans:260 (the minimum I can pay on my student loans!) Saving:285 ( gotta save for that rainy day!) Clothing: Take it out of entertainment when needed. Entertainment: 300 Misc: 55 (toiletries and other house hold items) My utilities could end up being much much higher. I am moving to Michigan, and god knows how much money it will cost just to keep a place at 68. Also includes my phone bill ($50) and internet(50). Xeom fucked around with this message at 07:30 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 07:24
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:So then, in the last eight years, I've known my net monthly salary to within $0.15 before I got my first paycheck. And you (all)? And taxes, you all know your refund amounts already, right? A budget is fundamentally a decision-making tool for planning, performance and control. Like any other tool, you need to select an appropriate one based upon acceptable performance for reasonable ease-of-use. If you're framing a house, you don't need a micrometer. Can you please describe exactly how that level of precision enables you to make better decisions, or do you just have an irrational precision fetish? PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Tax preparers would also be in considerably less demand. That's kind of silly, since filing taxes depends much more on one's understanding of the tax code than basic arithmetic. Xeom posted:Utilities:350 How on earth can you spend $250 per month heating an apartment? I guess try to find one on the top floor so your neighbors can heat your place for you.
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Nov 9, 2014 18:00
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posh spaz posted:Can you please describe exactly how that level of precision enables you to make better decisions...
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Nov 9, 2014 19:10
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:You answered your own question, or could use the surrounding context to find dozens of other answers: There are savers, and non-savers. The latter Uber and carry out and roll the thermostat and then stare blinking trying to figure out how they ended up $2500 in the hole this week. My point was you don't need to budget down to the penny if you've got expenses that might vary by +/-$100 or more. You still haven't answered my question about how estimating your income to within $0.15 makes your budget better than one that's estimated to $1, $5 or $10 increments. Of course, it obviously makes you cooler and smarter than everyone else, I'm just wondering what practical use it has. Seriously, this is you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_precision
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Nov 9, 2014 19:16
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posh spaz posted:How on earth can you spend $250 per month heating an apartment? I have no idea, I've never lived outside of Florida. I am just assuming the cost of electricity and heating gas will be about $250. That's what some people told me the cost of utilities was during winter.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:25
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Xeom posted:I have no idea, I've never lived outside of Florida. I am just assuming the cost of electricity and heating gas will be about $250. That's what some people told me the cost of utilities was during winter. I lived in Missouri a few years ago, and there was one really cold winter, but our utilities were maybe $120 per month at the most. It was an electric furnace too. I imagine a gas would be cheaper but I don't know. It probably depends a lot on how new/well-built the apartment building is. We were on the top floor too, so as long as our downstairs neighbor was in town we didn't have to turn our furnace on unless it got like, <10*F.
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Nov 9, 2014 19:36
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posh spaz posted:You still haven't answered my question about how estimating your income to within $0.15 makes your budget better than one that's estimated to $1, $5 or $10 increments.
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Nov 9, 2014 20:07
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Xeom posted:Right now I am sticking to the 65% I don't want to imagine the 60% as I would basically never be able to afford to do anything; Maybe stay at home and maybe watch netflix, while wondering why I studied engineering just to be broke :V. You could afford to lower the entertainment budget to 250. Also I'd recommend just finding a roommate in a nice house. You can then easily live in a 1200 dollar house with double the square footage of an apartment and just share it with a person. Then you'd have more money for a lot of things because you'll lower your utilities and your rent. The way I see it is you can rent a NICE room in a NICE house for 650 a month or get an average/subpar apartment for 800
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Nov 9, 2014 21:56
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Xeom posted:I have no idea, I've never lived outside of Florida. I am just assuming the cost of electricity and heating gas will be about $250. That's what some people told me the cost of utilities was during winter. I lived in Michigan for 8 years where I lived in Apartments. Most people spent more money on AC in the summer than Natural Gas in the winter. I don't know if this is normal or just my friends but $350 would be insane. I never had a bill with Consumers Energy be over $125 summer or winter in a 1/1. Key is a 5/1/1, 5/2, or 7 day programmable thermostat. You can keep it at 60 at night, heat up to 68 for the morning while you get ready, 58 during the day at work, 68 for after work until bed time. You save so much money this way in the winter. Veskit posted:You could afford to lower the entertainment budget to 250. Also I'd recommend just finding a roommate in a nice house. You can then easily live in a 1200 dollar house with double the square footage of an apartment and just share it with a person. Then you'd have more money for a lot of things because you'll lower your utilities and your rent. This will really depend on where in Michigan he is moving. Grand Rapids, Lansing, and Ann Arbor this could be possible, anywhere else though not so much. Where in Michigan are you going to be at? spwrozek fucked around with this message at 23:36 on Nov 9, 2014 |
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Nov 9, 2014 23:34
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I really don't want to do the roommate thing. Right now I am on an apartment finding trip and I am actually looking at some nice apartments around the 650 range, so it won't be that bad. Also the guy giving me the tour said that utilities usually never run over 150 so that's good too.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:20
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Super delayed iPhone double post.
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Nov 11, 2014 17:57
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Xeom posted:I am trying to make a budget for a job I am about to get. Its my first job since graduating college. I am an "exempt" (salary) employee making 48k. Whats the best way to calculate my monthly income? ADP has a salary calculator that can help, but the .65 calculation seems to hold up: http://www.adp.com/tools-and-resources/calculators-and-tools/payroll-calculators/salary-paycheck-calculator.aspx
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Nov 13, 2014 14:21
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