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Riftwar ended for me with Prince of the Blood. poo poo was mostly settled and so were the people who adventured in the original novels, and Feist couldn't have made 'Pug's daddy is Merlin' any more obvious without taking out an ad in the New York Times. What really ended it for me was the revelation that a minor character who vanished early in the novel, was found shivved in a store room and mourned for... maybe a paragraph. That really soured me on things-- though Pug's wife going 'Oh yeah, I have cancer and I'm going to die with my people, bye now' is six shades of poo poo too. One of the friends who loved Eddings has stuck with the series (I think they're among the only things he's read for pleasure) and to hear him tell it, main characters keep dying by the drove. Main characters named for previous, probably dead characters, making the whole thing look like an exercise in tracing, then burning down multiple family trees.
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# ? Oct 27, 2014 18:46 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 03:30 |
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I remember watching the Sword of Truth TV series on Netflix, and thinking it was the dumbest poo poo ever with the main character constantly worrying about his "quest". Who the gently caress says "quest" in casual conversation anyway? They did leave out the bit about where the titular Sword turns you into a Sith lord though. I want to see more of Darth Cipher's whacky adventures!
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# ? Oct 27, 2014 18:56 |
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TwoQuestions posted:I remember watching the Sword of Truth TV series on Netflix, and thinking it was the dumbest poo poo ever with the main character constantly worrying about his "quest". Who the gently caress says "quest" in casual conversation anyway? The TV show was awesome in a campy way. It helped that they got rid of (most of) what makes the books so creepy. I was sad it didn't get a third season.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 05:04 |
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FourLeaf posted:The TV show was awesome in a campy way. It helped that they got rid of (most of) what makes the books so creepy. I was sad it didn't get a third season. That said, it's been a while for me.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 05:47 |
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Offscreen: Richard comes to the entirely logical decision that since the mob failed horribly, it means Darken Rahl is coming right for them. They flee into the night, Zedd's house is nuked by wizard fire in the distance, and two short-tail gars attack them on the road. Nobody dies. Then they head to Chase's house, because Richard's brilliant deduction last time was "If anyone would know about a hole in the boundary, it would be a boundary warden." That one I can't fault. However, because this is an anti-government series, we need an entire speech about how nobody understands the wardens but the wardens, and ESPECIALLY not their bosses. quote:"Most people don't understand the boundary, or what we do. They think it's just some stupid law we enforce. Many are afraid of the boundary, mostly older people. Many others think they know what's best and go up there to poach. They aren't afraid of the boundary, so we make them afraid of the wardens. That's something real to them, and we keep it real. They don't like it, but out of fear of us, they stay away. To a few it's a game, to see if they can get away with it. We don't expect to catch them all; we don't really care. What we care about is scaring enough of them so the wolves in the boundary won't have enough rabbits to get stronger. I could make a case for this being some kind of US border analogue, but that's probably a stretch. Also, the ACTUAL racist poo poo is coming later. We are now into Fantasy Schlockfest territory as quote:Chase picked up a loaf of bread and tore off about a third. He met Richard's eyes. "They're called heart hounds. They're about twice the size of a wolf, big barrel chests, heads are kind of flat, big snout full of teeth. Fierce. I'm not sure what color they are. They only prowl at night, until today, that is. But it was too dark in those woods to tell, and anyway, I was kind of busy. There were more than I've ever seen together before." I really loving mean it: wizards in this setting are GODDAMN IDIOTS and they have never made a good decision in their lives. Every possible thing that can haunt our heroes will. "Oops, we created things to police the HOLE INTO HELL that we used as a border, except when they repaired the hole, all the guardians got loose for some reason." Speaking of wizards being idiots: a day or so later of this chase, Richard and Zedd are up late on watch and we get more Objectivist Fun Time. quote:Zedd smiled. "Well, that part went well." He sat a minute, his smile faded. "But Richard, the issue is bigger than just what happened today. You must understand that, as Seeker, you may cause the death of innocent people. In order to succeed in stopping Rahl you may have to turn away from those who might be saved with your help. A soldier knows that on the battlefield, if he bends to help a downed comrade, he might take a sword in the back, and so, if he is to win, he must fight on despite the cries for help from his fellows. You must be able to do this to win; it may be the only way. You must steel yourself to it. This is a struggle for survival, and in this battle the ones crying for help probably won't be soldiers, but innocents. Darken Rahl will kill anyone to win. Those who fight on his side will do the same. You may have to do the same. Like it or not, the aggressor makes the rules. You must play by them, or you will surely die by them." One of the most overused metaphors about THE TYRANNY OF THE WEAK is the forest/plants metaphor. In fact, one of the absolute worst songs Rush ever did in Neal Peart's Objectivist phase* was "The Trees". Please click the below video if you want to hear this exact loving metaphor belted out with the union connection spelled out in 1979. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnC88xBPkkc&t=240s Every goddamn Objectivist thinks they're the tall tree, the captain of industry, the strongest, smartest rear end in a top hat in the room. Every time I have to deal with one, it's entirely true, I wish someone would chainsaw them down a few inches. Doesn't matter where you measure from. * The joke is that this phase never ended. See his current transmedia opus Clockwork Angels, which I am willing to bet I could also mine for some similar cringeworthiness. Anyway let's cut away from me gettin' mad at Zedd and Ayn Rand and learn about how cartoonishly evil Panis Rahl was. quote:Richard gave a mental shudder at the thought of Kahlan killing him just for offering her an apple. He frowned. "Zedd? Why are all red fruits in the Midlands deadly poison? It isn't natural." WHY DID YOU LEAVE A CHUNK OF MAGIC AROUND THAT WAS DESIGNED TO DO NOTHING BUT CONVERT A COLOR INTO POISON OH MY GOD I'm cutting a lot of words out, but this entire spiel Zedd's going through right now is both foreshadowing, and horrifying, and boils down to "Richard, you're the weak link in our chain because you have empathy. Kill on sight, no matter who or what the enemy is. Kahlan and I are sure as hell going to, and so do the Rahls." Actually I think I just layered like three chunks of foreshadowing in there by accident. Oops~
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 08:29 |
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I want you to know I spent an hour cleaning up the original, super-drunk version of that writeup for you all after the last one was so lovely, and I did it in the 5 hours I have between two shifts. This is how much I love you/hate myself.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 08:35 |
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:I want you to know I spent an hour cleaning up the original, super-drunk version of that writeup for you all after the last one was so lovely, and I did it in the 5 hours I have between two shifts. This is how much I love you/hate myself. I certainly appreciate it. It's nice to have a concrete reminder that my younger self had even worse taste than I do now.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 08:56 |
Plague of Hats posted:I certainly appreciate it. It's nice to have a concrete reminder that my younger self had even worse taste than I do now. Not an emptyquote. I actually recommended this series to my wife like a year ago, then I started re-reading the book and told her to not waste her time.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 08:58 |
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Now I can't sleep because of that. poo poo. I'm just going to drag you all down the rabbit hole with me, I just read through the entirety of this site to detox and I'll now see if I can't clean up another post before next shift.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 09:07 |
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Ahaha, Rush is a fun band. I do appreciate how "2112" takes Anthem and makes it good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZm1_jtY1SQ
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 09:16 |
Hmmm, this Darken Rahl() guy seems pretty powerful, doesn't that mean that everything he does is "right" according to Objectivist "philosophy"? I mean I know there must be some dumb copout but I can't help but wonder how anyone gets taken in by such a juvenile bunch of claptrap that completely unravels at the slightest scrutiny.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 09:39 |
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:One of the most overused metaphors about THE TYRANNY OF THE WEAK is the forest/plants metaphor. In fact, one of the absolute worst songs Rush ever did in Neal Peart's Objectivist phase* was "The Trees". Please click the below video if you want to hear this exact loving metaphor belted out with the union connection spelled out in 1979. The Trees is actually amazing and hilarious because I have on multiple occasions had people listen to the lyrics and then asked them what the political message was and EVERY SINGLE TIME the answer it's a leftist song. Only an objectivist could write the lines "the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas" and "and they wonder why the maples can't be happy in their shade" and not go "jesus the oaks are loving assholes."
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 10:00 |
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:
reignonyourparade posted:Only an objectivist could write the lines "the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas" and "and they wonder why the maples can't be happy in their shade" and not go "jesus the oaks are loving assholes."
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 14:30 |
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reignonyourparade posted:The Trees is actually amazing and hilarious because I have on multiple occasions had people listen to the lyrics and then asked them what the political message was and EVERY SINGLE TIME the answer it's a leftist song. It honestly took me years to realize that it could be taken as not pro-union. "They cut down all the rich dudes and everyone gets enough. They stop the tree mobsters and evil capitalists and everyone's equal. Seems pretty straightforward and legit to me." Not that Peart himself cares one way or another what the meaning was: Modern Drummer, April/May 1980 posted:http://www.andrewolson.com/Neil_Peart/neilpeart_firstinterview.htm
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 16:27 |
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:We are now into Fantasy Schlockfest territory as Actually it's Shadowspawn, Darkspawn is Bioware's copy and file-off-the-numbers from WoT with a little mix of Warhammer warpy stuff and twisted Tolkien Orcs More specifically he's probably ripping off the Darkhounds. Perhaps not very closely other than "big evil hunting dogs" unless he later ticks some more of these boxes: quote:
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Oct 28, 2014 |
# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:26 |
Pimpmust posted:Actually it's Shadowspawn, Darkspawn is Bioware's copy and file-off-the-numbers from WoT with a little mix of Warhammer warpy stuff and twisted Tolkien Orcs They do not give up easily on their prey and once they have your trail the only choice is to turn and kill it or be killed. The Darkhounds dislike rain and thunderstorms, but this will not stop them once on the trail of their quarry. They are faster than horses, and can maintain their speed longer than even the strongest horse. That may be true, if I'm remembering correctly.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:34 |
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Does the "not harmed by normal weapons" include being chopped up but reforming like the god drat T-1000? That aspect and the deadly poison saliva made the Darkhounds real nasty (and cool). Can't outrun them, can't hide and can't kill them (unless you happen to be a rather specifically powerful and skilled walking nuke/demigod). Good luck
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 17:41 |
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I'd forgotten all about Heart Hounds. Mostly because this is the ONLY loving TIME THEY COME UP. These things that got released all across the midlands to prey upon people at random, and can't be stopped except by the most brutal and badass dudes... Never. loving. Seen. Again.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 19:16 |
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Pimpmust posted:Does the "not harmed by normal weapons" include being chopped up but reforming like the god drat T-1000? There's a lot of cool stuff in WoT, but no T1000 poo poo from the darkhounds. They're an ordinary sort of fantasy-hard-to-kill, in that you either can't damage them at all or they keep coming long after you'd expect them to. Their super-healing is not often featured (it's rarely featured because darkhounds are mooks to the ultra-powerful main characters except in the first few books so you rarely see the same one fight twice).
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 19:22 |
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thespaceinvader posted:I'd forgotten all about Heart Hounds. Mostly because this is the ONLY loving TIME THEY COME UP. I seem to recall this happens with some regularity. He realizes he oversold X so he just doesn't write about it ever again.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 19:22 |
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thespaceinvader posted:I'd forgotten all about Heart Hounds. Mostly because this is the ONLY loving TIME THEY COME UP. Hahaha, I was going to save that reveal for the end of WFR but yes, I actually double checked, they never appear again in the novels. In fact, someone's going to reinvent the loving heart hound later under a different name.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 19:24 |
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The thing with the objectivist doggerel is, you must realize it's an extremely convenient excuse. After all, it sets down a worldview where all those rear end in a top hat tiny plants keep stopping you from becoming the incredible tall tree captain of industry you're supposed to be! Thus, there's no contradiction in being a believer and not being fantastically successful in all things; it's not your fault, it's those stupid parasites keeping you down. If they and government and all of it was removed you'd be the kickass feudal industrialist godking you were meant to be. I have a brother who fell hard for all this crap and still hasn't recovered, so this Objectivist bullshit is personal for me.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 19:37 |
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Oh man, I read these books in high school. Or most of them anyway, until I gave up around book six or seven maybe? I look back on this series like an abusive relationship. It was really great at first but at the end I was just hoping the the good times would come back- now that I'm out I realize even the "good" times were full of red flags. I took a lot of things in fiction at face value when I was younger and even now I have trouble seeing analogies, so the whole fire ban = gun control thing flew right over my head. Thanks for showing me that Darkseid! I look forward more insight into Dick Cipher's adventures in Rape: The Rapening.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 20:07 |
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I managed to eat up Star Wars EU poo poo like it was Shakespeare when I was a wee lad, yet I couldn't get past like the 5th book in this series. Even at the age of 12 (aka everything is great at 12), I felt like the fucker couldn't stop preaching, and the rapey stuff was creepy. You're a pretty bad author if you can't hook in a 12 year old. As for heart hounds/darkhounds, they're just hellhounds recolored. It's an old trope.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 20:38 |
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30.5 Days posted:There's a lot of cool stuff in WoT, but no T1000 poo poo from the darkhounds. They're an ordinary sort of fantasy-hard-to-kill, in that you either can't damage them at all or they keep coming long after you'd expect them to. Their super-healing is not often featured (it's rarely featured because darkhounds are mooks to the ultra-powerful main characters except in the first few books so you rarely see the same one fight twice). You sure? Been awhile since I read it but I can recall at least one scene were someone goes choppy on one and it starts to reform itself from puddles, possibly around book 4-5, perhaps one of the last actual combat encounters with them? Could have been the translation I read that made it unclear I guess. e: Found the chapter, it's Rand cutting 3 down in Rhuidean with some sweet kung-fu sword moves when he discovers them turning into pools of liquid darkness, with their jell-o blood splatter streaming together before reforming. Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 28, 2014 |
# ? Oct 28, 2014 21:41 |
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Pimpmust posted:You sure? Been awhile since I read it but I can recall at least one scene were someone goes choppy on one and it starts to reform itself from puddles, possibly around book 4-5, perhaps one of the last actual combat encounters with them? Could have been the translation I read that made it unclear I guess. I looked on the internet and I guess this happened in rhuidean once? If it's the fight I'm thinking of I thought that was one of the bubbles of evil thing at the time, idunno.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 21:45 |
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Like the specifics aren't important, because in the books the darkhounds are so resilient that it's considered okay to use basically the magical equivalent of the atom bomb on them (balefire). Like balefire is so dangerous that satan was willing to negotiate a nonproliferation treaty for it, but it's okay to use it on darkhounds.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 21:49 |
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I think it's an ability they "pick up", that the Super Turbo version Darkhound 2.0 displays later on in the books. Not every darkhound gets it and I don't think it's ever explained what's the difference is or were it came from, because at least one character (in the know) comments on the ability being new? It only happens 2-3 times before the Darkhounds kinda drop out of the books entirely for a very long stretch, probably because the number of characters that can run into them and *win* is pretty drat small and pulling out the "lolnope"-fire would get stale.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 21:50 |
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DARKSEID DICK PICS posted:
The best part is there is an explanation for this, and like every question about wizards/magic users in this series it boils down to wizards being real dumb.
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 22:38 |
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I'm pretty sure this has already been posted in this thread but
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# ? Oct 28, 2014 22:48 |
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alarumklok posted:I managed to eat up Star Wars EU poo poo like it was Shakespeare when I was a wee lad, yet I couldn't get past like the 5th book in this series. Even at the age of 12 (aka everything is great at 12), I felt like the fucker couldn't stop preaching, and the rapey stuff was creepy. You're a pretty bad author if you can't hook in a 12 year old. Early on there's some pretty cool (or at least vivid) concepts being thrown around and the ludicrous "message" is more veiled. Hell, if he'd stopped with this book (which is pretty standalone), I probably would have continued to regard it fondly for years to come. Unfortunately, as you say, he got preachier and preachier about utter nonsense (at the time I didn't have the grounding to know it as objectivism but I could tell that Jagang & co were thinly veiled Communist straw men) and pretty creepy with the sex stuff too...not that that stuff wasn't on display already. I confess what finally turned me off the series, though, was the book Pillars of Creation, where literally none of the main characters of the series even appear until the last, oh, 10% of the book. I was already feeling like the series was dragging on and that was the final straw. I might eventually have gone back when it "finished", but by then I'd found out Goodkind was a raving nutbar and the whole thing was essentially propaganda and no longer felt the need to subject myself to more.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 00:13 |
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malkav11 posted:I confess what finally turned me off the series, though, was the book Pillars of Creation, where literally none of the main characters of the series even appear until the last, oh, 10% of the book. I was already feeling like the series was dragging on and that was the final straw. I might eventually have gone back when it "finished", but by then I'd found out Goodkind was a raving nutbar and the whole thing was essentially propaganda and no longer felt the need to subject myself to more. That was it! This was the last book I read. At the end of it Dick breaks a rule about how magic works, with the reasoning that "that rule was stupid and I'm awesome" and I finally washed my hands of the whole mess. I put up with rape camps and evil chickens only for Goodkind call his own world building asinine and the people who went along with it morons. ... which is true.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 00:53 |
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TheSmilingJackal posted:That was it! This was the last book I read. At the end of it Dick breaks a rule about how magic works, with the reasoning that "that rule was stupid and I'm awesome" and I finally washed my hands of the whole mess. I put up with rape camps and evil chickens only for Goodkind call his own world building asinine and the people who went along with it morons. ... which is true.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 01:10 |
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TheSmilingJackal posted:Oh man, I read these books in high school. Or most of them anyway, until I gave up around book six or seven maybe? I look back on this series like an abusive relationship. It was really great at first but at the end I was just hoping the the good times would come back- now that I'm out I realize even the "good" times were full of red flags. Haha, this is a great analogy, I feel exactly the same way.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 01:48 |
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I read the first 3 or 4 of these books when I was younger. I didnt know a thing about objectivism and would swear the first two were good before it just got boring. Reading the thread and knowing about objectivism know, this thread is just a delight.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 01:52 |
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Let's wake back up with Richard and company. Is Richard still a goon?quote:Richard watched Kahlan's body sway as she rode, her shoulders moving to the horse's rhythm. He wished he could take her to places he knew of in the Hartland Woods, secret places of beauty and peace, far back in the mountains, show her the waterfall he had found, and the cave behind it, have lunch by a quiet forest pond with her, take her into town, buy her something pretty, take her someplace, any place, where she would be safe. He wanted her to be able to smile without having to worry every minute if her enemies were getting closer. After last night, he felt that the first part, his fantasy of being with her, was just an empty wish. Yes. Anyway, Chase's route brings them right next to the boundary, so he decides to give Richard an object lesson by nearly killing the Seeker of Truth in one instant. quote:With the next step the green sheet of the wall changed suddenly. "Far enough," Chase said, his voice echoing. The wall had become darkly transparent, as if Richard were looking into a deep pond in the dark woods. Chase stood still, watching him. Please remember, until TWO DAYS AGO, Richard kept his anger in check all his life, and now he's nearly mowing motherfuckers down for a ghost. quote:Kahlan turned to Chase in a fury, slapping him across his face as hard as she could. Reminder: Chase is the only person in the series with any surviving children to their name. THIS IS HIS PARENTING STYLE. Speaking of fun surprises that I forgot came from Chase, anyone who's read the books before is about to groan: quote:"Richard is right," Chase said. "And we have to get to Skow Swamp before nightfall, before the heart hounds come out. It's the only safe place between here and Southaven. We'll reach Southaven before tomorrow night and will be safe from the hounds there. The next day we will go see a friend of mine, Adie, the bone woman. She lives near the pass. We need her help to get through." Before we can find out why this sucks, Chase and Zedd are rendered unconscious by a tentacle beast on the other side of the boundary. Richard and Kahlan strap them to horses and head for the swamp, because what the hell other plan do they have? quote:Kahlan stroked Zedd's forehead. "It is not a good sign for a wizard's eyes to be closed like this. I don't know what to do for them." That's not relevant at all, I just find it loving hilarious. Wizards sleep with their eyes open, to a man. This is a real detail about this world. One chapter and one dull night later, the party reaches Southaven, which is basically your typical "rough fantasy town". I don't even need to copy the description. You already know where this is going. There are barfights and everything is a rough looking joint and the town has no healer, most likely because people just up and die in fights rather than needing one. quote:"Expensive-looking whore you got there, boy," the red-haired man said. "I don't suppose you'd mind if we came up to your room and passed her around some?" The innkeep knows Chase, tells them where to find Adie, and says he'll keep people away for the night. In return, Richard gives what's ALMOST helpful information: quote:Richard gave him a hard look. "If anyone comes through that door tonight, I will kill them, no questions asked." Notice that he did not mention to the man living right on the edge of the boundary "This means Heart Hounds are going to run wild all over the place". That seems like a thing he might have wanted to know. In fact, Chase should REALLY tell the other wardens that. Like. Immediately. (Nobody is ever going to.)
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 02:15 |
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I'm sure Chase would say if the other Wardens couldn't figure out the boundary was failing, they deserved to die anyway.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 04:13 |
chiefnewo posted:I'm sure Chase would say if the other Wardens couldn't figure out the boundary was failing, they deserved to die anyway. This might've been glossed over or my memory might be fooling me, but I think part of why Richard's brother is regarded as such a dick is that he's pulled back the border wardens to guard him instead of, y'know, the angry rift into hell that forms their eastern border.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 04:52 |
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He did for the party, I forget if it was a more permanent arrangement. I think Chase's comments made it sound like he did it as a display of power at his crowning.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 04:55 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 03:30 |
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malkav11 posted:I confess what finally turned me off the series, though, was the book Pillars of Creation, where literally none of the main characters of the series even appear until the last, oh, 10% of the book. I was already feeling like the series was dragging on and that was the final straw. I might eventually have gone back when it "finished", but by then I'd found out Goodkind was a raving nutbar and the whole thing was essentially propaganda and no longer felt the need to subject myself to more. The lack of Richard & Kahlan was the only reason I was willing to give the next book a try. It was still horrible and I can't remember a thing from it but at least it wasn't King & Queen Deus Ex Machina.
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# ? Oct 29, 2014 06:22 |