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Cerv posted:have you considered how massively expensive the required bureaucracy would be? That's the point. They need to get billing services in place before they start privatisation proper. Hence why they float ideas like charging for missed appointments, or a surcharge on hospital stays or GP visits. Additionally, I gain nothing knowing that I cost the NHS £10000 last year, but the act of compiling that bill means that they have some fantastic data to attract health insurance companies in the UK market when the time comes. Oh and, I'm sure the billing services will mean a lovely payday to IBM or Crapita or whoever gets the contract for rolling out the IT system. Maybe they can add it to the Universal Credit IT system. HortonNash fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 15:55
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My American fiancée had to go to the doctor for some arm and wrist pain a few weeks ago. The advice was OTC painkillers and a cold press, come back in a few days if it's not better. $119.25. Fortunately Obamacare brought her bill down to $30 but jesus christ
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Oct 29, 2014 16:07
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Burqa King posted:We don't want to gently caress it up, but one alternative to reducing waste is for NICE to bring down their allowance for various proven new medicines on the grounds of cost, which isn't really in our best interests. Our cancer performance is still not terribly good. Another alternative would be to fund the NHS properly, but we can't do that because reasons.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:11
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Wolfsbane posted:Another alternative would be to fund the NHS properly, but we can't do that because reasons. You see you can't just throw money at the NHS, they'll only spend it on drugs.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:52
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Gonzo McFee posted:Doctors can prescribe medical shampoo for serious cases of dandruff, so it's not a frivolous thing like you're implying. Not true. Clinics are overbooked to cope with the 'did not attends' (DNAs). As you can imagine this is an inexact science, so if there are lots of DNAs then clinic time is wasted (you can't really give someone 30 minutes notice to come to the hospital/GP for an appointment that just opened up), and if there are fewer DNAs than expected the clinic runs late which makes patients and staff upset. Is there an easy solution? Probably not (the problems with, say, charging for missed attendance have been touched upon here), but that doesn't mean that missed appointments aren't a problem for the NHS. Wolfsbane posted:Another alternative would be to fund the NHS properly, but we can't do that because reasons. I suspect there is neither the political nor the public will to increase taxes for NHS funding.
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Oct 29, 2014 16:54
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Depends which taxes.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:08
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Mister Adequate posted:My American fiancée had to go to the doctor for some arm and wrist pain a few weeks ago. The advice was OTC painkillers and a cold press, come back in a few days if it's not better. I don't consider myself especially manly but surely these complaints are overblown. Isn't it common sense to see how you feel in a couple of days?
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Oct 29, 2014 17:15
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Burqa King posted:I don't consider myself especially manly but surely these complaints are overblown. Isn't it common sense to see how you feel in a couple of days? I don't think it was the advice given that was considered problematic
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Oct 29, 2014 17:19
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I would suspect most people already have waited a couple of days.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:19
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There has been some discussion of whether the EU might kick the UK out for some of the silly poo poo the Tories have been pulling. Sadly other EU members, such as Hungary, are doing far worse: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/29/budapest-viktor-orban-democracy-edge-hungary quote:The number one item on Orbán’s destroy list appears to be the western democratic model. In an infamous speech to supporters in Romania in July, he declared the western model dead and cited the authoritarian regimes of Russia, China, Turkey and Singapore as the templates to follow. “We are parting ways with western European dogmas, making ourselves independent from them,” he declared. “We have to abandon liberal methods and principles of organising a society. The new state that we are building is an illiberal state, a non-liberal state.” That the EU is not doing nothing about this suggests that Germany is benefiting somehow but still, if stuff like that isn't getting Hungary kicked out Cameron's feints definitely won't. E: note Orban is giving that speech in Romania, likely in a part he considers greater Hungary. He is stirring up poo poo to try and take territory from a fellow member state and yet is still at little risk of censure. ReV VAdAUL fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 17:21
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Lugaloco posted:I would suspect most people already have waited a couple of days. I use to think the same thing but my faith in people's patience is slipping in light of the various anecdotes I've read in here. I reckon a sliding scale is the answer. £100 to see a doctor that same day. £0 to see them in a week. I think that would concentrate the minds wonderfully.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:34
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I think healthcare should be free at the point of use.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:36
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Burqa King posted:I use to think the same thing but my faith in people's patience is slipping in light of the various anecdotes I've read in here. I reckon a sliding scale is the answer. £100 to see a doctor that same day. £0 to see them in a week. I think that would concentrate the minds wonderfully. You found your own anecdotes that convincing?
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Oct 29, 2014 17:37
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I miss the days right wing trolls had some style. These new ones just seem so tepid. It's like they don't even care enough to put the effort in. At lest pretend to give a poo poo about the outcome of your awful policy ideas.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:38
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ReV VAdAUL posted:There has been some discussion of whether the EU might kick the UK out for some of the silly poo poo the Tories have been pulling. Sadly other EU members, such as Hungary, are doing far worse: Almost-literally Hitler
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Oct 29, 2014 17:40
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Burqa King posted:I use to think the same thing but my faith in people's patience is slipping in light of the various anecdotes I've read in here. I reckon a sliding scale is the answer. £100 to see a doctor that same day. £0 to see them in a week. I think that would concentrate the minds wonderfully. Now think about the kind of situations that would require an immediate appointment, and if -just maybe!- discouraging people from seeking medical treatment is a bad idea that makes things worse and much more expensive to treat
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Oct 29, 2014 17:42
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I reckon properly funding the NHS and gulags for those who suggest anything but free healthcare for all would help the NHS tremendously.
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Oct 29, 2014 17:43
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Wolfsbane posted:I miss the days right wing trolls had some style. These new ones just seem so tepid. It's like they don't even care enough to put the effort in. At lest pretend to give a poo poo about the outcome of your awful policy ideas. It's pretty hard when the real right wingers don't seem to pretend to give a poo poo any more.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:09
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baka kaba posted:Now think about the kind of situations that would require an immediate appointment, and if -just maybe!- discouraging people from seeking medical treatment is a bad idea that makes things worse and much more expensive to treat That's what a and e is for! But on a more serious note, I think theres got to be some way to dissuade people from going to the doctor with a sprained wrist. Its the whole instant gratification, entitled, me me me culture unfortunately.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:14
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To be honest the last time i tried to book a doctors appointment they said they couldnt see me for a week and by then my symptoms had cleared up so I think the system works. Although I did wonder how many people had taken up appointments for a 'bad cough'.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:15
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Burqa King posted:That's what a and e is for! But on a more serious note, I think theres got to be some way to dissuade people from going to the doctor with a sprained wrist. Its the whole instant gratification, entitled, me me me culture unfortunately. What, exactly, about seeking treatment for serious injury relates to instant gratification, entitlement, or any other talking points you have fresh?
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Oct 29, 2014 18:15
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CoolCab posted:What, exactly, about seeking treatment for serious injury relates to instant gratification, entitlement, or any other talking points you have fresh? I think hes more talking about the people who have a sniffle and feel that they should be entitled to an appointment and antibiotics (which don't work on colds) that day.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:16
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serious gaylord posted:I think hes more talking about the people who have a sniffle and feel that they should be entitled to an appointment and antibiotics (which don't work on colds) that day. Then he probably shouldn't use an actual serious injury in his discussion and should discuss that? To a layman, telling the difference between a sprained wrist and a serious wrist injury is beyond his capacity. That's why we have doctors, to go there with a sprained wrist. Specifically, even.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:19
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Is it only Wales that has walk in clinics? If some silly fucker really wants to see the doctor about a mild cold here they'd be told to go to a walk in clinic, wait half an hour or so and then have a quick check up with one of the doctors who'd tell them "Go take some medicine and get some rest." or an appointment made with a major hospital if by some miracle it turns out to actually be serious. Treatment on the same day, no appointment needed. It seems to work out fine.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:23
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There is indeed a school of thought which suggests that improving ease of access to healthcare stimulates people to attend when they could easily have self-managed their illness, see: http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/publications/meeting-need-or-fuelling-demand Many common and mild illnesses (colds, sprains, 'flu) are self-treatable and we already have barriers that discourage people with these conditions from seeing primary care - the waiting time for non-urgent GP appointments is one. The tricky part is discouraging self-treatable patients from attending, whilst still allowing those with serious (or potentially serious) conditions to see a doctor. Charges for consultations are problematic on many levels, and even more so is the idea for charging only for 'inappropriate' attendances which gets floated fairly often. CoolCab posted:Then he probably shouldn't use an actual serious injury in his discussion and should discuss that? To a layman, telling the difference between a sprained wrist and a serious wrist injury is beyond his capacity. That's why we have doctors, to go there with a sprained wrist. Specifically, even. A sprained wrist is not a 'serious injury' and most cases can be self-managed. Indeed, the NHS patient guidance specifically advises patients on how to do so, and when to seek medical advice: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Sprains/Pages/Introduction.aspx oxford_town fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 18:24
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CoolCab posted:Then he probably shouldn't use an actual serious injury in his discussion and should discuss that? To a layman, telling the difference between a sprained wrist and a serious wrist injury is beyond his capacity. That's why we have doctors, to go there with a sprained wrist. Specifically, even. You shouldnt be going to a GP with a sprained wrist. You should be going to A&E as a GP will just send you there anyway. I like to think even the most lay of layman would go to A&E if they thought they'd broken a bone.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:31
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serious gaylord posted:You shouldnt be going to a GP with a sprained wrist. You should be going to A&E as a GP will just send you there anyway. I like to think even the most lay of layman would go to A&E if they thought they'd broken a bone. I thought my kid had sprained his wrist when he fell out of a tree, turned out he broke his arm in two places. He didn't even seem to think it hurt that much - I only took him to the doctor (after three days) because of the swelling.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:33
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hookerbot 5000 posted:I thought my kid had sprained his wrist when he fell out of a tree, turned out he broke his arm in two places. He didn't even seem to think it hurt that much - I only took him to the doctor (after three days) because of the swelling. Good! Sounds like you've raised him well. Unless it's a bad break, 3 days isn't going to be dangerous.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:39
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serious gaylord posted:You shouldnt be going to a GP with a sprained wrist. You should be going to A&E as a GP will just send you there anyway. I like to think even the most lay of layman would go to A&E if they thought they'd broken a bone. My younger sister was bit through her snowsuit by a husky on our arctic adventures, and failed to seek treatment for two days. The bone was shattered, required extensive surgery. Do not assign to laymen a qualified professional's job. oxford_town posted:A sprained wrist is not a 'serious injury' and most cases can be self-managed. Indeed, the NHS patient guidance specifically advises patients on how to do so, and when to seek medical advice: http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Sprains/Pages/Introduction.aspx The wrist is one of the most complex points on the human arm. Wrist issues cause significant pain, and prevent individuals from working even on a keyboard, which pretty much rules them out of most of the job market. The guidance you linked quote:Most sprains and strains are relatively minor and can be cared for at home (see below). agrees with me. A sprained wrist, particularly one that leaves you incapable of working, is a perfectly legitimate reason to go to the GP.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:40
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Fans posted:Is it only Wales that has walk in clinics? No, we have them here in Reading and it's amazing. My normal GP surgery won't book appointments outside of a rolling two day window, so if those two days are full, that's it. It's not "I'll book you in for a week's time", it's "call back tomorrow morning at 8am and we'll see if there is an appointment in the following two days." "Oh what's that, you didn't manage to call before 8:05? Well, all our appointments are full now, try calling back and booking one tomorrow morning." Fuckers. I secretly think it must be a system to avoid having any patient waiting longer than 2 days so they meet their waiting list targets.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:42
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Prince John posted:I secretly think it must be a system to avoid having any patient waiting longer than 2 days so they meet their waiting list targets. I mean, that's exactly what it is. Target came through that all patients must be seen within 2 days: surgeries stopped booking appointments over 2 days out. Although, most are flexible.
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Oct 29, 2014 18:48
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Burqa King posted:That's what a and e is for! But on a more serious note, I think theres got to be some way to dissuade people from going to the doctor with a sprained wrist. Its the whole instant gratification, entitled, me me me culture unfortunately. Good thing she didn't have a mere sprain and was, in fact, in so much pain she went to the doctor despite having to take time off work and facing fees of unknown scale, huh?
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Oct 29, 2014 18:56
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Some conditions are exacerbated by time spent untreated, and while they're relatively uncommon the layman with no knowledge of the condition they have (beyond something like "I have a bad stinging feeling in my throat and it isn't made better by drinking Lemsip") isn't likely to know if it'll get worse or not except in extreme cases like anaphylactic shock or broken bones.. This makes artificially extending the time it takes for a person to see a doctor, like by charging a fee for earlier visits, a potentially dangerous thing unless the patients are screened by a doctor before making an appointment. Which beats the point anyway.
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Oct 29, 2014 19:00
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CoolCab posted:The wrist is one of the most complex points on the human arm. Wrist issues cause significant pain, and prevent individuals from working even on a keyboard, which pretty much rules them out of most of the job market. The guidance you linked Yes, severe cases should be reviewed by a doctor. But a blanket statement that: quote:To a layman, telling the difference between a sprained wrist and a serious wrist injury is beyond his capacity ...is untrue and there are many, many cases of mild-moderate sprains that are successfully self-triaged and managed. That NHS page specifically offers advice for self-diagnosis and management. Edit: I'm not saying that the specific attendance mentioned in this thread was inappropriate, but taking issue with the idea that every minor ailment needs to be seen by a doctor and that the system is failing if it doesn't allow for this. oxford_town fucked around with this message at 19:12 on Oct 29, 2014 |
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Oct 29, 2014 19:07
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if you've got a sprained wrist you should try being less of a wanker
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Oct 29, 2014 19:15
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oxford_town posted:Yes, severe cases should be reviewed by a doctor. But a blanket statement that: Eh, I do admit that I tend to be overcautious about wrists specifically because I've had issues that I ignored when I shouldn't have. A lot can go wrong with your wrist, particularly when it's your bread and butter as it is for so many people. Go to the doctor if your wrist is giving you trouble! e: and yeah it's what jfairfax said 
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Oct 29, 2014 19:23
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My doctor told me off for not going regularly enough (three times in nine years). Didn't want to waste anyone's time when I felt fine, just a little cough I attributed to a recent cold. Turned out I had a massive infection in my lungs that attacked my kidneys, bladder, urinary tract and finally my heart and ended up putting me in hospital. The only symptom I had up until the heart was a cough. So gently caress you, next time I have a cough I'm going to my GP.
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Oct 29, 2014 19:23
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oxford_town posted:Edit: I'm not saying that the specific attendance mentioned in this thread was inappropriate, but taking issue with the idea that every minor ailment needs to be seen by a doctor and that the system is failing if it doesn't allow for this. Nobody's saying this though, just that someone getting an unnecessary examination is better than someone failing to get one when they need to. Ideally everybody would be educated enough and have access to useful information so they'd know when to stay away, but failing that it's better to see a medical professional (doesn't have to be a doctor) than put yourself, or your child, or grandma at further risk
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Oct 29, 2014 19:25
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Prince John posted:No, we have them here in Reading and it's amazing. My normal GP surgery won't book appointments outside of a rolling two day window, so if those two days are full, that's it. It's not "I'll book you in for a week's time", it's "call back tomorrow morning at 8am and we'll see if there is an appointment in the following two days." Official NHS guidance for walk in centres and minor injury units are here: http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/AboutNHSservices/Emergencyandurgentcareservices/Pages/Walk-incentresSummary.aspx Calling 111 for phone triage or using them to get an appointment is a pretty good way if you can manage it though. They're classified as Type 3 A&E service which means you're supposed to be seen within 4 hours as promised by the NHS constitution.
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Oct 29, 2014 19:25
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serious gaylord posted:You shouldnt be going to a GP with a sprained wrist. You should be going to A&E as a GP will just send you there anyway. I like to think even the most lay of layman would go to A&E if they thought they'd broken a bone.
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Oct 29, 2014 19:29
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