|
Coming up with fixes to the current sensor system is pointless because the system is fundamentally broken. Every single thing about it is completely binary. You in range/out of range. You can lock them/cant lock them. You're under ECM/not under ECM. Theres no middle ground. Plus all mechs have equally good sensors, so a fast heavy is just as good a scout as any light. Reworking the entire sensor system is whats needed but I don't think PGI is going to put that kind of effort in. If I were fixing it though? First, all mechs would have varied sensor types based on their role and overall performance. For example: heavy and assault brawlers like the Atlases or Direwolves would get pretty lovely sensors: Slow to lock on (increased missile lock times) and short range (300m), but fairly quick to get access to the paper doll once they do so they know where to shoot. Combat lights such as the Jenner and Firestarter would get medium range (400m) sensors with average lock times (using the current lock times as average) and slightly faster paper doll access times. Support lights like the Raven or Spider would get long range sensors (650m or more), maybe slightly faster lock and paper doll access times. Mediums and heavies would have their sensors somewhere between those numbers, depending on chassis, its role, and its performance. And of course any of them could be changed for balance purposes to give a boost to an underperforming chassis. Range would modify the lock time. For example, a mech has a sensor range of 600 meters. A target at up to 300 meters would be locked at the targeting mechs normal speed. However, at the 600m mark, lock speed would be 75%. Target sharing would work pretty much as it does now, with the change that the reduced sensor ranges on some mechs require them to be closer to share data. However, indirectly spotted mechs or mechs outside of the mechs normal sensor range take 10% more time (on top of the reduced lock time due to range)to get missile lock and mechs must have the paper doll access (even if scrambled by ECM coverage) before the target is shared to teammates. If a mech has not been targeted by any enemy in the past 60 seconds, the paper doll must be reacquired instead of the current system where its unlocked for the remainder of the match. ECM would no longer makes covered mechs invisible to sensors outside its 180m bubble. Instead, having ECM equipped halves the range the carrying mech can be targeted from. So a brawler with a sensor range of 300m wouldn't be able to target until 150m, but a scout with 650m range sensors could target from 325m. This only applies to the mech with ECM equipped. All mechs under ECM coverage are visible and targetable on sensors, but lock times are doubled and the paper doll is scrambled until ECM coverage is removed. The ECM carrier also gains these benefits. ECM on counter would function as it does now and disable one enemy ECM. BAP also retains its close range ECM counter, as well as removing negative lock time penalties from indirect fire and ECM coverage and speeds up the paper doll access times. NARC is pretty much the same, except that it also decreases lock times on the affected mech. This opens up the opportunity for a wide variety of sensor-based balancing changes/quirks, as well as more modules PGI can get people to sink cbills or MC into. Anyways, those are my  on how I'd change the sensor system, please tell me how I am both dumb and wrong about all of this.
Great Beer fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Oct 29, 2014 |
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:13
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:49 |
|
|
It doesn't really matter because the current system is lovely garbage and they are completely incapable of changing it to make it better.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:19
|
|
|
Great Beer posted:Words on sensors... With that you could even create a "tier" of sensors for each mech giving those proposed ranges and create a module to increase to the next tier by 1 step. Each sensor range/benefit is associated with a sensor tier. So, now an assault has their lovely tier 1 sensors, they could get an "advance sensor" module and now have a poor tier 2 sensor that would be equivalent to what some medium or maybe a heavy mech already has. While some lights might have a tier 3, the raven or spider would have a tier 4 and their advance would allow a tier 5 that only they could get.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:33
|
|
|
Lemming posted:It doesn't really matter because the current system is lovely garbage and they are completely incapable of changing it to make it better. Jesus gently caress, shut up. No one cares that you hate this game and don't play it anymore. No one cares that you think PGI are bad developers and an awful company. We know all that and we have some hope anyway. Go be a sad sack somewhere else.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:36
|
|
|
Lemming posted:It doesn't really matter because the current system is lovely garbage and they are completely incapable of changing it to make it better. Always in the back of the mind when discussing what they could do to fix things 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:38
|
|
|
EoRaptor posted:Jesus gently caress, shut up. No one cares that you hate this game and don't play it anymore. No one cares that you think PGI are bad developers and an awful company. Don't worry, soon the despair will take you and you will become like me. Soon, soon.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:45
|
|
|
Just saw a 2 x LL raven get 5 kills and do 1012 damage.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:49
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:Just saw a 2 x LL raven get 5 kills and do 1012 damage. That's pretty pants-on-head crazy right there. How many 2x LL shots would it take to hit 1012 damage anyway?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:56
|
|
|
Stalkerr posted:That's pretty pants-on-head crazy right there. How many 2x LL shots would it take to hit 1012 damage anyway? Just a couple criticals to ammo. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Stalkerr posted:That's pretty pants-on-head crazy right there. How many 2x LL shots would it take to hit 1012 damage anyway? 56 perfect shots.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:57
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:Just saw a 2 x LL raven get 5 kills and do 1012 damage. TWO large lasers? 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
I have my best games when people just ignore me and I pick at them all round, as a 3L. I'm starting to like the 3xML/2xSRM4 build though. I got a couple 5 kill rounds last night.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 18:59
|
|
|
Pycckuu posted:TWO large lasers? I run a 2x ERLL Raven 3L and use it to poke at mechs from halfway across the map. I'm sure it's really annoying to play against.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:00
|
|
|
How do like half the people in this thread have hilarious red text?
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
various cheeses posted:I'm starting to like the 3xML/2xSRM4 build though. I got a couple 5 kill rounds last night. 2xML SRM6 NARC 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Lemming posted:Don't worry, soon the despair will take you and you will become like me. I'm actually pretty happy, because I get to call someone out on being an rear end. It's not everyday you get to watch someone squirm as their bullshit is washed away.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:03
|
|
|
EoRaptor posted:I'm actually pretty happy, because I get to call someone out on being an rear end. It's not everyday you get to watch someone squirm as their bullshit is washed away.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
So that's it? Your reply is to empty quote me, as if that somehow shows that I'm doing what you are doing, instead of you doing it. As a tactic, that was marginally effective for Republicans, but it really just looks sad and devoid of thought. If your only purpose in this thread is to poo poo on anyone who tries to engage with this game, then leave. We all know how bad it's been, we've all moved beyond that stage of our lives, and we are all working to try to make something better out of what we have. We aren't going to join you in your crying corner, and if all you can post is resentment that nobody is hanging out with you in a puddle of tears, don't post. It's that simple.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
EoRaptor posted:So that's it? Your reply is to empty quote me, as if that somehow shows that I'm doing what you are doing, instead of you doing it. As a tactic, that was marginally effective for Republicans, but it really just looks sad and devoid of thought. He's just mad he doesn't have a way to play out his power fantasies of being a leader anymore and he's too prideful to just come back and admit that the game still has some good components (Other goons).
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
More quirks! Good times.quote:Spider 5V - Tier 5 Skirmisher
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
I'm that rear end in a top hat running TAG/NARC/ECM/ERLLas on a -3L and cashing in more per match than my hero mechs. With LRMs so en vogue once again I'm not only a credit to the team but also just raking it in. It's glorious.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:50
|
|
|
Don't worry friends, we're all mechbros here. I'm just hanging out and having a good time, waiting for the day that the game is fun again. It just might be a while, ha ha, but if you like it, then I'm happy for you 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Smugging it up over the fact you still play doesn't change the fact that Lemming is right about the game not being fun anymore. I spent a night dropping with goons recently and it was, unfortunately, not as fun as I remembered. This wasn't because of some sort of rose-tinted nostalgia or something either. It was quite easy to identify problems. One of the biggest issues I saw was cramming 24 mechs into maps that weren't designed for it. Spreading out the spawns seems to have helped, but few players seem to enjoy conquest (which could help make it significant) and generally teams just immediately blob up. On older maps like Frozen City that often had an 8v8 standoff at the dropship, it's now... a 12v12 standoff at the dropship. While there are speed differences, players also tend to make mechs that operate within the same general speed thresholds; generally you're moving as a group at maybe around 80 kph, or as a light sprinting at the maximum. This has made me wonder if allowing a much higher speed cap might help out lights and mediums. The fact a lot of heavies can haul rear end while out armoring and out gunning mediums still makes that weight class feel anemic by comparison. An exception are the clan mechs, where a Stormcrow is a murdermachine. Clan mechs definitely punch above their weight, and at good range. Things like the SRM-loaded Stormcrow (that puts the old Splatcat far to shame) aside, most clan mechs seem kit out with a crazy array of long-range weapons that remain pretty effective compared to shorter ranged weapons even if you close the distance -- better DPS and heat efficiency on a clan large than an IS medium laser. The UI has a whole host of problems that still haven't been ironed out, and a lot of fundamentally confusing design problems. The "smurfy style" or "mw2 style" mech overview still is nothing more than a nonfunctional display, which honestly surprised me a little. Some of the new weapon module changes are interesting, but it was a lot of trouble finding the ones I wanted. Module management all around seems bad and unreliable even if you know the right steps. I still wish engine management was handled more like armor management or engine management in past games, where you would have a cost associated with changing your engine rating but didn't need to actually juggle individual engine items between each chassis. It's just a huge pain in the rear end, makes experimentation difficult, cements building around discrete engine sizes even more, and that could've been resolved a while ago. Also, match wait times were still kinda crazy. Combined with lower match earnings overall, this makes any kind of grinding irritating I'm sure. It feels like we spent more time waiting to find a match and fighting the UI than actually playing. We had some alright matches still in the end, but there was a lot of stupid poo poo and stupid rounds to slog through.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 19:58
|
|
|
novaSphere posted:I'm that rear end in a top hat running TAG/NARC/ECM/ERLLas on a -3L and cashing in more per match than my hero mechs. With LRMs so en vogue once again I'm not only a credit to the team but also just raking it in. It's glorious. The hero spider is probably one of the most 'profitable' mechs right now. Ember should also be doing extremely well.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:02
|
|
|
Yeah so LRMs actually did seem better (in terms of tradeoffs and teamwork with narc/tag) than they've been in the past. That was the bright spot.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
Profit Robot, post-quirks: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/mechlab#i=130&l=be0997d76782a86842934dd4efb9aa57bfedbfdc
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:05
|
|
|
Chronojam posted:This has made me wonder if allowing a much higher speed cap might help out lights and mediums. The fact a lot of heavies can haul rear end while out armoring and out gunning mediums still makes that weight class feel anemic by comparison.  If anything the speed inflation needs to be curtailed. Mediums should be doing 60-80kph with a handful of 97kph outliers, lights should be doing 100-120kph. Heavues mostly 64kph, assaults in the 48-53kph area. Asking for lights to go faster than the current 170kph cap is just ridiculous.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:06
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:
You both really want the same thing, which is a greater difference in speed between different classes. I will comment that, given the problems with the current hit detection code and the limited size of most maps, higher speed would not work, and lower speed would make accurate shooting so easy the first person to pull the trigger would always win.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
WarLocke posted:
Regardless of how you do it, the speeds need to be spread out, and there need to be some mechs that are faster, and a reason to bring them. Given construction rules and equipment, mechs can definitely go faster than the speed limits they've introduced. Allowing lights and mediums to more easily flank/maneuver/disengage would be great. I'm not really convinced that base turrets were a great thing either on your average map. e: I'd much rather err on the side of "He went by too quick to even shoot" than "Headshots on all the heavies" combined with bigger maps overall. The old maps are just simply too small for the weapon engagement envelopes and number of mechs as it is, so I'm not super concerned if a light or medium can be in your base that quickly. That's honestly way the gently caress more interesting than playing the waiting game at a standoff, and/or being afraid to move between cover. Chronojam fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Oct 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
Lights being slower is certainly a terrible idea.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
various cheeses posted:Lights being slower is certainly a terrible idea. It doesn't help that their actual function (scouting) is pretty much useless/not applicable, either.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
http://mwomercs.com/forums/topic/171550-rolands-treatise-on-ecm-and-sensors/ Speaking of active/passive sensors and making lights and mediums scouts, here's a pubbie's post on ECM and sensor interplay that I actually completely agree with, if you do the whole brown sea thing. There's more discussion beyond the OP but he sets up a good set of ground rules and concepts that PGI will never implement.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
EoRaptor posted:So that's it? Your reply is to empty quote me I think he's empty quoting you because you're going on and on bitching about him while claiming to be happy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:23
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:Oh woops we need one more of these circle jerks, one second...
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:25
|
|
|
various cheeses posted:Lights being slower is certainly a terrible idea. Well they could up the possible engine limit on lights IF they'd remove the go faster "skill". Or switch it with an acceleration/decceleration skill. Which also makes a bit more sense. Thus the Mad Cat would be "stuck" at 81 kph or whatever. And lights could still go 170 kph, if engine limits would be slightly raised.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:32
|
|
|
If I recall correctly the current light speed limits were put in place largely because their netcode couldn't handle lights moving so fast so they would teleport around and be virtually unhittable. Unless they've significantly improved this aspect of the netcode, they are probably technically unable to allow lights to go much faster. Edit: whoops old and already covered
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:43
|
|
|
Lemming posted:If I recall correctly the current light speed limits were put in place largely because their netcode couldn't handle lights moving so fast so they would teleport around and be virtually unhittable. Unless they've significantly improved this aspect of the netcode, they are probably technically unable to allow lights to go much faster. I wouldn't mind this if they put in collision and knocking down lights again. That was pretty awesome
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:How do like half the people in this thread have hilarious red text? Because Internet robots only attracts the most rational balanced goons. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
Kazvall posted:How do like half the people in this thread have hilarious red text? Because people who play this game have no aversion to being around people/things/games that actively hate them. I am pretty loving proud of my red text though, and I love bad boxart megaman so the new AV is pretty nice too. Please don't tell Transient People though, I am sure it would break his little heart.
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 23:01
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 17:49 |
|
|
Had another decent match. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 29, 2014 23:25
|
|