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bobkatt013 posted:You know at some point she will be trained by Ollie, Dingle and Ted. Yeah, she'll have to get some kind of actual martial arts training because they're not going to make her fight scenes MMA tackles and stuff. That looks silly in an Octagon, never mind outside.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:45
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Aphrodite posted:He actually spends the first like 8 months not doing much of anything. 8 months is a pretty severe exaggeration. It was probably 6, tops. Besides, we're only a month into the Hong Kong storyline, and while he's not training, he's still out in the field doing poo poo.
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Oct 30, 2014 21:46
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Actually it seems pretty likely they'll continue to emphasize how completely out of her depth Laurel is at throughout this season, even w/ some sweet boxing lessons.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:12
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Aphrodite posted:He actually spends the first like 8 months not doing much of anything. Slade trained him a lot in The Odyssey and even says that he came a long way (in his own way) He trained a ton in The Promise and could actually hit targets with his bow. I think we'll see a lot more training in season 3's equivalent episode.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:15
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Oliver is probably gonna get training in intel/counter-intel and assassination techniques/black ops poo poo from ARGUS.
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Oct 30, 2014 22:56
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Scyantific posted:Oliver is probably gonna get training in intel/counter-intel and assassination techniques/black ops poo poo from ARGUS. All the stuff he's never used back in Starling. 
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Oct 30, 2014 23:08
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Drifter posted:All the stuff he's never used back in Starling. Exactly. Anyway, the Ra's al Ghul stinger was pretty cool considering that the scene was a direct reference to the Lazarus Pit (dude sitting in a tub  )
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Oct 30, 2014 23:20
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I just finished season 2 and the army of bow users mowing down the tunnel of deathstrokes was super loving amazing. Does anyone have that picture of Olly/Diggle/Slade/Quentin with all their shirts off?
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Oct 30, 2014 23:45
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Actually it seems pretty likely they'll continue to emphasize how completely out of her depth Laurel is at throughout this season, even w/ some sweet boxing lessons. Yeah, I think Laurel's whole story is really well-handled this season. She's *supposed* to seem out-of-control and crazy, because all she has is rage and determination and no skill or focus. She's Batman, from the first act of Batman Begins. Of course, the difference is, Laurel's female. At its core, my issue here is a feminist one: it's unfamiliar to see a heroic arc for a woman who's embittered, cruel, uncontrolled, or capricious. Tons of women have heroic purpose thrust on them (Buffy, Wonder Woman, etc.), but they tend to approach it with elegance or at least resigned enthusiasm. It's only the Bruce Waynes of the world who are allowed to be whiny, sobbing pissants for the first third of their stories. Female characters who are imperfect in these ways (and yet not villainous) are way more rare, and way more reviled. And don't get me wrong, there are obviously tons of Empowered Women on this show, but they usually come more fully-formed and digestible. Even Sara's training happened more or less offscreen. What we see is the quip-throwing badass in dominatrix leather she became. And it was awesome to see, but the issue isn't that fans reject *active* femininity; they reject *flawed*, uncontrolled femininity. See also how hated Thea was when she was a drugged out party girl, or how hated Huntress was when her motivations weren't rational. For these reasons, I think Laurel's story is really interesting, and honestly, transgressive. She doesn't *have* to be a hero, she wants to be. And she has no idea how and isn't very good at it. Nobody in her life supports her ambitions, but she's going to push herself anyway. And her motivations are super dark and complex and violent. In that sense, she's more like Ollie than Sara ever was.
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Oct 30, 2014 23:47
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Xealot posted:Of course, the difference is, Laurel's female. At its core, my issue here is a feminist one: it's unfamiliar to see a heroic arc for a woman who's embittered, cruel, uncontrolled, or capricious. Tons of women have heroic purpose thrust on them (Buffy, Wonder Woman, etc.), but they tend to approach it with elegance or at least resigned enthusiasm. It's only the Bruce Waynes of the world who are allowed to be whiny, sobbing pissants for the first third of their stories. Female characters who are imperfect in these ways (and yet not villainous) are way more rare, and way more reviled. If you go through your life thinking that any negative reaction to a situation that tangentially involved a woman is sexism, you're going to end up a deeply embittered person. Thea's "drugged out party girl" arc was reviled because it was soapy CW bullshit.
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Oct 31, 2014 00:09
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Xealot, that analysis is amazingly obtuse. Laurel's fine, but Ollie's a lovely teacher, and even Wildcat isn't crazy as gently caress to push someone the way Merlyn did with Thea for six months (and that was just to get Thea so she's not afraid of shadows), so Laurel's arc won't get up and running unless they do some weird loving timejump (Flash crossover again?). And Laurel's ONLY out for power-fantasy revenge at this point. Laurel's story arc spoilers for the rest of the season- "You almost had it this time, Laurel. Keep it up!" 
Drifter fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Oct 31, 2014 |
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Oct 31, 2014 00:14
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JohnSherman posted:If you go through your life thinking that any negative reaction to a situation that tangentially involved a woman is sexism, you're going to end up a deeply embittered person. Thea's "drugged out party girl" arc was reviled because it was soapy CW bullshit. It was 100% soapy CW bullshit. My point is more people's reaction. When Roy acts like a tweaked-out rear end in a top hat psychopath, people's reaction is, "this blows. How is this gonna play into Arsenal?" When Laurel acts like a drunk piece of poo poo, a common reaction is, "ugh Laurel sucks..just drop her from the show. Kill her off; I hate this."
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Oct 31, 2014 00:19
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Roy you could make the case that he was street fighting for years and so could naturally have learned some fighting. So he is good against common goons but needs to train up. I just wish they would let Dig be more badass and fight people hand to hand or prove that like he is a loving deadly man or whatever.
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Oct 31, 2014 00:49
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BrianWilly posted:By the by, the extended preview for the next episode lends a great deal of credence to Brother Eye/OMAC virus speculation. Guess that explains why the tracking arrow was a ~nanotechnology~ tracking arrow. Gotta establish nanotech is also something Felicity can do.
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Oct 31, 2014 01:17
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boom boom boom posted:Guess that explains why the tracking arrow was a ~nanotechnology~ tracking arrow. Gotta establish nanotech is also something Felicity can do. You'd think it'd be a Ray Palmer thing. Being the Atom and what-not.
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Oct 31, 2014 01:24
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Xealot posted:It was 100% soapy CW bullshit. My point is more people's reaction. One person was like that an entire season, one was like that for three episodes.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:18
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I don't think Laurel's just going to get beat up the whole season. I suspect sometime sooner than later she'll have a victory of her own busting up a crime, like a mugger or a man attacking a woman, and gain confidence, then maybe get roughed up again facing someone who is a bigger threat, then up her game again. How great would it be if during the Flash crossover something with the particle accelerator made her meta and gave her that canary cry?
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Oct 31, 2014 02:22
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How the gently caress is sitting in a bath tub a direct reference to a Lazarus Pit?
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Oct 31, 2014 02:24
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Rhyno posted:How the gently caress is sitting in a bath tub a direct reference to a Lazarus Pit? Both are filled with some type of liquid.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:27
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dreffen posted:Both are filled with some type of liquid. Obviously a reference to the FF villain Hydro Man.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:29
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Rhyno posted:Obviously a reference to the FF villain Hydro Man. B-b-but the canon 
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Oct 31, 2014 02:30
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dreffen posted:B-b-but the canon You heard it here first, Ras al'Ghul is gay.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:32
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Ras Al Ghul being played by a fair-looking man is actually historically accurate, because the peoples of the Arabian Peninsula were largely blonde hair/blue eyed before the Semites of Ethiopia and the degraded steppe peoples of Central Asia moved in.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:37
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zoux posted:Someone was asking but yeah it's the exact same coffee shop in Flash and Arrow. They could have at least changed the paintings on the wall.
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Oct 31, 2014 02:39
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Xealot posted:Yeah, I think Laurel's whole story is really well-handled this season. She's *supposed* to seem out-of-control and crazy, because all she has is rage and determination and no skill or focus. She's Batman, from the first act of Batman Begins. To me the key reason I'm assuming she'll spend a lot of time being 'not a badass' is that making her a badass in no way helps the writers raise the stakes of the show. If they felt (and they'd be wrong!!! to feel this way) that having another really bad-rear end martial artist on a team of Ollie and Roy and Diggle and whomever else can swing in for a one-shot did do that, then they would have just kept Sara around. But "oh man you need the whole team to beat THIS threat!" is like Power Rangers level stake-building. Laurel's interesting because she's going to get herself in danger because she's not well equipped to handle it, but we should be rooting for her because her heart is in the right place- she's exactly like early Ollie except we're even more immediate to the tragedies she's suffered. Also, my gut tells me this is meant to parallel with Thea. Laurel's going to get by on people under-estimating her and not expecting Laurel to be someone who makes things happen. Thea's going to be the same way. While Ollie and Roy putz around going "something seems off about Thea. Welp can't figure it out" she'll be quietly handling herself or issues that don't come out until finally a big dramatic reveal occurs and Oliver is forced to try and stop his sister even though he doesn't want to hurt her and he's completely shocked by who she is. Xealot posted:It was 100% soapy CW bullshit. My point is more people's reaction. I'd agree Laurel/Katie Cassidy gets poo poo on a lot by goon watchers. But I'm more willing to attribute that to goons having that annoying fandom tendency to not understand how a story or plot works, or why shows or movies or books have them. greatn posted:I don't think Laurel's just going to get beat up the whole season. I suspect sometime sooner than later she'll have a victory of her own busting up a crime, like a mugger or a man attacking a woman, and gain confidence, then maybe get roughed up again facing someone who is a bigger threat, then up her game again. She'll definitely have 'victories' in that sense- I just don't imagine they'll be victories in the 'oh man that's such a cool fight scene'. She'll beat up a lovely mugger by getting the drop on them, or Malcolm will turn his back on her because she's just some weak DA and get popped in the back- but I suspect it will be because people under-estimate her and some luck. And it would be awful if that happened? What interesting story comes from that?
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Oct 31, 2014 03:51
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Well, Ra's al Ghul wasn't played by either David Warner or Liam Neeson, so I woulda been disappointed no matter what. That's nothing against the guy they've got playing him. Anyone would have been a disappointment.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:22
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Okay, this is getting difficult, can we just merge the Arrow and Flash threads?
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Oct 31, 2014 04:23
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Can we merge both with the Gotham thread? The tonal whiplash would be amazing.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:25
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Phylodox posted:Can we merge both with the Gotham thread? The tonal whiplash would be amazing. I withdraw my request because we can't risk that. Maybe we should petition for random thread mergers though.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:28
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Phylodox posted:Well, Ra's al Ghul wasn't played by either David Warner or Liam Neeson, so I woulda been disappointed no matter what. That's nothing against the guy they've got playing him. Anyone would have been a disappointment. Peter Stormare Christopher Walken Terry Crews The Old Spice Guy Sean Bean Peter Dinklage Ian McShane Bryan Cox Gerald McRaney Margo Martindale
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Oct 31, 2014 04:31
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Phylodox posted:Well, Ra's al Ghul wasn't played by either David Warner or Liam Neeson, so I woulda been disappointed no matter what. That's nothing against the guy they've got playing him. Anyone would have been a disappointment. Oded Fehr  I will fight anyone who says he's not fit for the role.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:32
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Paul Blackthorne playing Dectective Lance's secret twin brother of mysterious-orient descent.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:35
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Scyantific posted:Oded Fehr Oded Fehr is Dr. Fate.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:35
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Reveal that Walter Steel was somehow Ras all along just to being back Walter Steel, who was good IMO.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:36
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:Sean Bean I'd want Ra's to stick around instead of dying after a season.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:39
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I think we all know which superhero Walter Steel should end up being, don't we? Metamorpho!
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Oct 31, 2014 04:39
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Considering that Rex Mason will never be A list material I would gladly take him as an Arrow/Flash cast member. I'm kind of pissed they offed Mark Shaw so quickly.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:41
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Bad Moon posted:I'd want Ra's to stick around instead of dying after a season. You can just Lazarus him into another cool guest star! That's maybe the best thing about Ras. Hell kill him off every episode and just bring in a totally different character-actor the next week to chew on some weird dialogue.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:42
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Rhyno posted:Considering that Rex Mason will never be A list material I would gladly take him as an Arrow/Flash cast member. I'm kind of pissed they offed Mark Shaw so quickly. Did they? No body.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:43
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Slime Bro Helpdesk posted:You can just Lazarus him into another cool guest star! That's maybe the best thing about Ras. Hell kill him off every episode and just bring in a totally different character-actor the next week to chew on some weird dialogue. Like Doctor Who except you go through a dozen actors in a season instead of 50 years.
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Oct 31, 2014 04:43
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